There are levels to this I guess, someone should get a raise.
martin wrote:fishmike wrote:I would just check out of the sport if I followed them... I literally did that with football (Giants fan). Every fall it's the same thing. By October I know I'm checked out. It's almost freeing. Just brutal. Reminds me of some of the Isiah years. I followed the team but didnt really spend time watching. Im not into the misery.Poor Mavs fans. Loosing Brunson and watching him become the NBA's most clutch player is tough. Luka is just sickening. Dont know how you keep watching. What a gut wrencher
It's called pulling a djsu
I djsu'd the Jets. I'm a Bills fan now.
God bless football Jesus Josh Allen.
franco12 wrote:martin wrote:Could be luck[tweet]https://www.twitter.com/sradjoker/status/1897009070172999962[/tweet]
Glad we at the bottom! Hope we stay there!
Shit list. You're telling me being without Mitch for 60 something games was actually better for them?
joec32033 wrote:franco12 wrote:martin wrote:Could be luck[tweet]https://www.twitter.com/sradjoker/status/1897009070172999962[/tweet]
Glad we at the bottom! Hope we stay there!
Shit list. You're telling me being without Mitch for 60 something games was actually better for them?
No,, when your doing well and you have really just on long term injury it does not affect it as much as other teams.
So is knicks have had the least effective injury situation is the Thibian minutes issue a thing?
Did other coaches over play their starters but fell to injury?
I know the season is not over and this can all fall apart
Mav's ticket prices? Conspiracy? They likely thought this thru for some time prior to the trade and perhaps thought the best of things before everyone got injured? What conspiracy? What are the Mavs pricing compared to other markets and the rate if increase compared to others also matters. Read a post "about doubled" vs. "9% increase". Was it a blanket increase of the same percentage or was it progressive depending on seat location and based on previous increases?
Lets consider this: What if Luka became very injury prone in a super max deal given the picks they have going forward? They just came off a run to the finals last year, that matters also. You think Mav's really wanted to trade Luka given the fan base affinity for him as well as his productions? I get the fan pushback for sure.
They fucked up with Brunson for sure. But they made finals despite. Teams make mistakes and still succeed.
That roster if healthy might have made a nice run this year. Obviously it was fragile and the worst occurred.
martin wrote:Typically ~9 months to return
Follow up…………As soon as AD saw this he called his agent and mentioned he might be taking a lot of sick days the rest of the season. Most of them to be spent in the Bahamas.
Nico has the worst karma of anyone in the sport. I'd stay far away from him.
I cannot think of a worse trade in NBA history than that Luka trade. There is no way you trade Luka and don't end up with at least one young solid player and 3-4 draft picks.
Miriam Adelson got great karma.
TheGame wrote:I cannot think of a worse trade in NBA history than that Luka trade. There is no way you trade Luka and don't end up with at least one young solid player and 3-4 draft picks.
Only trade might be worse is Divac for Kobe in 1996. But at least that trade as historically one sided as it was back then drafting players straight out of high school was taboo I mean the nets passed on Kobe for Kerry freaking Kittles.
Philc1 wrote:TheGame wrote:I cannot think of a worse trade in NBA history than that Luka trade. There is no way you trade Luka and don't end up with at least one young solid player and 3-4 draft picks.
Only trade might be worse is Divac for Kobe in 1996. But at least that trade as historically one sided as it was back then drafting players straight out of high school was taboo I mean the nets passed on Kobe for Kerry freaking Kittles.
I watched a 30 second clip of Kobe in high school before the draft. And I knew who won that trade as soon as it was announced.
GustavBahler wrote:Philc1 wrote:TheGame wrote:I cannot think of a worse trade in NBA history than that Luka trade. There is no way you trade Luka and don't end up with at least one young solid player and 3-4 draft picks.
Only trade might be worse is Divac for Kobe in 1996. But at least that trade as historically one sided as it was back then drafting players straight out of high school was taboo I mean the nets passed on Kobe for Kerry freaking Kittles.
I watched a 30 second clip of Kobe in high school before the draft. And I knew who won that trade as soon as it was announced.
Kobe pulled an Eli Manning and the Hornets flinched. Would Kobe have the balls to go to Europe? Don't know.
BigDaddyG wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Philc1 wrote:TheGame wrote:I cannot think of a worse trade in NBA history than that Luka trade. There is no way you trade Luka and don't end up with at least one young solid player and 3-4 draft picks.
Only trade might be worse is Divac for Kobe in 1996. But at least that trade as historically one sided as it was back then drafting players straight out of high school was taboo I mean the nets passed on Kobe for Kerry freaking Kittles.
I watched a 30 second clip of Kobe in high school before the draft. And I knew who won that trade as soon as it was announced.
Kobe pulled an Eli Manning and the Hornets flinched. Would Kobe have the balls to go to Europe? Don't know.
They weren’t going to draft him anyway.
Nalod wrote:
joec32033 wrote:franco12 wrote:martin wrote:Could be luck[tweet]https://www.twitter.com/sradjoker/status/1897009070172999962[/tweet]
Glad we at the bottom! Hope we stay there!
Shit list. You're telling me being without Mitch for 60 something games was actually better for them?
No,, when your doing well and you have really just on long term injury it does not affect it as much as other teams.
I understand what you are saying but just because there is no baseline to compare with the Knicks having Mitch to this point in the season, makes it a crap list. It has obviously affected them. If this advanced stat can't account for that, I don't think the advanced stat is dependable.
So is knicks have had the least effective injury situation is the Thibian minutes issue a thing?
Did other coaches over play their starters but fell to injury?
I know the season is not over and this can all fall apart
This is a good point though. If Mitch is healthy what do the minutes distributions look like? Obvious effect on record.
Mav's ticket prices? Conspiracy? They likely thought this thru for some time prior to the trade and perhaps thought the best of things before everyone got injured? What conspiracy? What are the Mavs pricing compared to other markets and the rate if increase compared to others also matters. Read a post "about doubled" vs. "9% increase". Was it a blanket increase of the same percentage or was it progressive depending on seat location and based on previous increases?
Lets consider this: What if Luka became very injury prone in a super max deal given the picks they have going forward? They just came off a run to the finals last year, that matters also. You think Mav's really wanted to trade Luka given the fan base affinity for him as well as his productions? I get the fan pushback for sure.
They fucked up with Brunson for sure. But they made finals despite. Teams make mistakes and still succeed.
That roster if healthy might have made a nice run this year. Obviously it was fragile and the worst occurred.
They're idiots. Thats my simple answer. There is always risk, but Luka plays a below the rim, semi unathletic game that translates well to getting older, IMO. Dallas is in spin mode, but the more they spin the bigger dumbasses they look like.
Philc1 wrote:Miriam Adelson got great karma.
I'm not sad. No one should be sad. That family deserves all the karma
What about the other 12 teams that passed on Kobe?
Armed knowing he was a HOF star y'all are real smooth "Knowing" in hindsight.
So why did Kobe not get taken earlier? Many pieces to this story in context at the moment.
We know drafts are dicy propositions. Anyone look at the class he got drafted in and the teams/need?
Kobe was 17 and arrogant. Anyone remember Kobe reality over the years? His talent was vast, but he was a prick from time to time. That gets lost.
At 13th the risk was less if he proved to not have the talent. Lakers did a hell of a job scouting him.
Any recall his agent clearly said he'd play in Italy if need be rather than play in a small market?
That Lakers needed to dump salary to sign Shaq.
Hornets won 54 games with Divac at center.
Im not saying it was an equitable trade by any means. But Kobe was not going to play in Charlotte nor did they want to wait for him to mature as they were pretty good.
As for the AD/Donic pick its pretty genius to say after 10 games and Dallas lost its starting center, HOF bound 31 year old Davis , and HOF bound Star Kyrie that the trade was awful. It is.
Lets see how the next few year go an how Doncic holds up. Nobody disputes his current talent or Davis' injury history.
Sometimes great ideas don't execute and Dallas might be fucked for years. Lakers might have starphuched themselves based on how Doncic holds up and that he in fact resigns there. I doubt he bolts as a free agent outright to Atlanta or Detroit but Lebron will retire at some point and perhaps in a vacuum that team struggles. At least they have an major draw to market and keep it going. For sure was worth the risk.
Vlade for Kobe is not the worst trade ever. You can look at it 30 years later and make a lot of hindsight analysis about it, but a few things to consider when the trade was made:
The High School to NBA jump was something that was a fairly recent phenomenon, spurred by KG a year or two before. Kobe was the first "non-Big" to make the jump and people openly speculated over whether that was a viable move. The argument was someone larger physically could make up for the lack of maturity, but a guard would have a tougher time. That was a big part of the calculus of why he went in the mid-teens vs. top 5.
In that era of the NBA, bigs/centers were by far the most premium position. Conventional wisdom is you never traded "big" for "small." We're literally in the opposite era of that right now, so the lens in which we view it has a different shaped frame.
Vlade was a more than viable starter in the NBA at that point, in his prime. He helped the Hornets reach the playoffs and helped make the Kings one of the best teams of the era (we won't get into whether they were robbed of a few titles).
More than anything though, it was a trade of a player who hadn't played a game in the NBA yet. Luka Doncic at 25 is already one of the best players in the NBA, probably top 3 on 90% of people's lists, and a guy that already creeps into the all time rankings. Certainly one of the most all around talented players we have ever seen. There's not a shot or pass he can't make. And he just took you to an NBA finals. And you didn't even shop him around where he might have had the highest trade value in the league. It will never make sense. It literally worked out the worst possible way with the injuries, but if AD and Kyrie were still playing it would still be mindbogglingly dumb.
VDesai wrote:Vlade for Kobe is not the worst trade ever. You can look at it 30 years later and make a lot of hindsight analysis about it, but a few things to consider when the trade was made:The High School to NBA jump was something that was a fairly recent phenomenon, spurred by KG a year or two before. Kobe was the first "non-Big" to make the jump and people openly speculated over whether that was a viable move. The argument was someone larger physically could make up for the lack of maturity, but a guard would have a tougher time. That was a big part of the calculus of why he went in the mid-teens vs. top 5.
In that era of the NBA, bigs/centers were by far the most premium position. Conventional wisdom is you never traded "big" for "small." We're literally in the opposite era of that right now, so the lens in which we view it has a different shaped frame.
Vlade was a more than viable starter in the NBA at that point, in his prime. He helped the Hornets reach the playoffs and helped make the Kings one of the best teams of the era (we won't get into whether they were robbed of a few titles).
More than anything though, it was a trade of a player who hadn't played a game in the NBA yet. Luka Doncic at 25 is already one of the best players in the NBA, probably top 3 on 90% of people's lists, and a guy that already creeps into the all time rankings. Certainly one of the most all around talented players we have ever seen. There's not a shot or pass he can't make. And he just took you to an NBA finals. And you didn't even shop him around where he might have had the highest trade value in the league. It will never make sense. It literally worked out the worst possible way with the injuries, but if AD and Kyrie were still playing it would still be mindbogglingly dumb.
Good take.
I took a few years for the Vlade to Hornets (More than just made playoffs, it won 54 games 8 years after its existence. Outside of perhaps Iverson who went first I gather a lot of teams look silly after letting him drop to 13.
Today teh Luka trade is god awful. My point of contention is lets see how it pans out in the next few years. That Dallas punted on this kid is unfathomable and makes one very curious to "What don't I know"? To throw Doncic under the bus was very surprising. Minny did get an offer to move him for Ant Edwards but it was a resounding "No".
Another bad trade often mentioned was Kareem to Lakers. Lost in time Milwaukee was reasonably competitive for a few years and did ok from the trade. Kareem put up huge numbers but that team missed playoffs and took a few years to rebuild into showtime. Context was the Lakers got depleted and then some really good moves got made that took a few years to pan out. Really bad trades? The ones Clippers and Cav's made that bolstered the Lakers rise in the 80's. Same for Celtics. Joe Barry Carrol for Parish and the pick that became Mchale?
The fact the Hornets were relevant for a few years met the teams objective and considering Kobe was never going to be in Charlotte it was not a disaster. Bad trade like Eddy Curry for two unprotecteds that became Joakim Noah and Lamarcus Aldridge was a disaster.
Dallas trading Luka is compounded by Kyrie blowing out his knee. Lets see how Luka holds up before we able it a disaster. Not denying the first three weeks are pretty bad. it is.
