Knicks · Game Thread: Rubble of the Mavericks @ Knicks, 7:30PM (page 6)
martin wrote:This past draft of near second round picks is going to turn out to be glorious. HopefullyNash lite, thin Josh Hart who is not afraid to shoot, Baby PAC, Huk-Tuah.
It’s an entire bench unit.
And now we have Anton Watson who was taken ahead of the likes of McCullar, Hukporti and Bronny James
2nd half defense (3rd q and early 4th) was among the best efforts this year. Ball denial to Marshall - guys up in people's faces, deflections. That is the way they are supposed to play, but we cant seem to find that gear consistently. BTW the defense created easy offense multiple times. OG feasted.
On another note, now that Naji Marshall is one of the best players in the game, what minimal trade package will Dallas demand for him? Or maybe just let him walk?
Think we go as OG goes. Great shooting game by him. Love the aggressiveness.
Hart and KAT with the triple double . Historic!
Bridges with very efficient game.
Kolek comes off the bench and shows how easy it is to set others up in the NBA if you really want to.
Hoping everyone gets and stays hot in time for JBs return and to finish season strong.
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Are you guys watching him? He looks like Frank on offense and Cam Payne on defense. I have no idea why he hasnt gotten more time
He had a couple nice finishes, but he's also been blocked more than a few times the last 2 games and hasn't been able to stick his 3s (though the preseason showed and he can stick them - so with work I believe he will). Personally I think last night what I was most impressed with was his defensive positioning and intensity. He is small and not super fast, so will always be limited, but he was in the right place and in people's faces, and did a great job on help and rotating a few times.
What my goal is for him is that he used the opportunity he has right now to earn the backup PG spot next year. Payne is on a 1 yr 3mm deal and Deuce is a wing. Kolek backing up Brunson would save us a lot on roster construction/salary and he absolutely is showing enough signs to earn that for next year. And for a 2nd round pick that is a massive win.
If Deuce is out for longer and Kolek shows the little bit of scoring between now and the end of the year, than I'm open to the case of him playing - but probably over Shamet and not Payne. And then Thibs is going to have to come to terms with going small. But our best players on the bench are Robinson, Deuce, Payne and then Kolek. 3 of those guys are PG size and one of them is a 5. Its not the ideal mix.
Best part was seeing the Captain on the bench without a walking boot! I miss him so much! Hopefully we can get him next week for that game in Cleveland but we should not rush him back.
I was really annoyed in the first half. Looked like an All-Star game the way both teams played zero defense and made every shot. Naji Marshall looked like Bernard King! But we tighten things up in the second half and took care of business. Held them to 45 points in the second half after giving up 68 in the first half. OG especially locked in and took over on both ends. Not even a bloody mouth could have stopped him! He's a fun player to watch when he's on!
Congrats to Hart for his 9th triple-double of the season breaking Clyde's all-time Knicks record! He'll end up as one of the all-time great Knicks! And KAT also had a triple double looking like Jokic on some of those passes! First time in a game with 2 players with a triple double!
Shoutout to the rook! Kolek isn't John Stockton but damn he reminds me of him! Just has a knack for passing! Precious and Shamet also had their best games in a few weeks it seems. We need both of them to give us SOMETHING at the very least and not be total duds.
And very cool to see Hart giving the game ball to the McCullar! Hard to believe the Mavs were in the Finals just last year! They are a dumpster fire right now! Never seen a team fall so quickly from the top to the very bottom.
schizash wrote:Best assist per minute ratio in the NBA: Young 0.32. Kolek last 2 games : 0.46. Yes against bad teams, yes limited minutes and its only 2 games. But this guy proved that he should have been playing 8-10 minutes for a long time now. And if this had happen he would be more than ready now to be the back up point guard. We do not have anybody like him on the team and we do not take advantage of it. Can never understand coach "rules" that rookies don't play and that the rotation should always be 8 or 9 players. A lot of coaches in the league proved that this is nonsense.
I will help with a few examples and let me know if it makes sense to you. I'll start by stating that of course Kolek could have gotten 8-10 minutes a game. The question remains, at what point does it make sense to integrate Kolek into the rotation? What are the benefits and downsides to waiting X amount of games. What may be the best inflection point to adding him into the rotation? What is optimal, both for team and coaching staff and Kolek? This is more than just a Kolek decision.
First game? First month? Second month? What's the formula and timing for that? And, IS there a formula or does a coach, any coach, know "when" is the right time? And is it different for a tank team than a playoff team? (YES) As well, is it just about Kolek or are there more factors that may go into that decision?
As an example, there are a ton of cheap college kids that join companies every year for their first jobs. Would it piss you off if there is a college kid with much less experience than you and your particular role in job but much more potential that could easily supplant you in your position? I think the answer to most everyone is YES (give or take), especially in the Kolek/Cam Payne scenario. So why don't companies just sideline more experienced people for the cheap college grad and roll with it if it's kinda sorta close? Because they don't want to create a disgruntled team environment. You lose loyalty. Maybe loyalty is not for everyone. Anyone care about what Cam is bringing to the table? Cause his offline stats are pretty good for a backup and I don't think anyone would say he has lost the job or rotation spot by any means.
Are you OK, and is your department and team OK, with your boss handing over the job to the college DOGE kid over you and sideline YOU when you are on a 1 year deal fighting for your family and your next job after that? How does it effect the team dynamic? Will a min vet player sign with the Knicks ever again (within this FO) because of that same situation? Fuck no, Cam and Shamet types would never sign with your team unless it is out of desperation, that means the FO will fight for bottom of the barrel vet min dudes. TJ Warren would never spend time on your GLeague team (with obvious exceptions). You very deliberately have also created a Grapes of Wrath level environment in your non starter and fringe rotation players; Earning and Overtly Outperforming is much better team dynamic and understood by everyone because of the pecking order of things. Athletes at all levels understand this. Moreover, Leon REALLY understands this from a vet min recruiting perspective.
We also don't know if Kolek will fail or succeed in that position. Maybe he is Linsanity, maybe he is Kevin Knox who dominated SL. You need to play the odds some as a coach if you have the right type of opportunity. That opportunity is called off-camera development. Gleague. Practice. What Deuce did. Are the Knicks and Deuce worse off because Deuce didn't get some games in 2 years ago? Who even remembers that far back, right? The answer is No. I assure you, none of us will remember that Kolek didn't get an extra 10-35 played games this year down the road, Deuce is a prime example of that. Billups was not worse off because he didn't click right away, especially when hard work is a bedrock and foundation within your team environment. That is deliberate. The Knicks have created a deliberate environment and expectation for ALL of their young players. They KNOW the deal from day 1. That makes things easy.
When you have the room to coach up a young player and allow him to be shown the ropes, it helps Kolek long term, it alleviates the need to manage Cam Payne ego, it further helps the TEAM environment, etc. For that specific example, it is a win-win for those 2 players (Kolek ain't going anywhere). It *may* be a slight loss for the team in the W/L column and it may delay Kolek's on court growth. Maybe. All of those are shots in the dark, unless someone can tell me the magic formula that always works across all players; and if there is a formula, you best quit your job right now and get hired by the NBA to make millions of $$ cause you would get hired in a split second.
Another point: the Knicks are a new team trying to feel things out. When you have 5 players who are trying to gel on the court, is it easier with someone like Cam who already knows the plays and calls, both on offense and defense, otherwise you introducing more uncertainty with a rookie and thereby making it harder and more frustrating for the 4 other guys on the court? Yes you are. Plenty of examples of rookies fucking up all the time more often than vets, that is common sense.
We have all rightfully complained that it is taking too long for Mikal to be consistent, imagine that inconsistency but much more with Kolek. Are there potential upsides to Kolek working up to potential? Yes. Odds favor the opposite, unless you are ungodly talented.
As a coach, you want to create a team environment where things are earned. It keeps your younger players very very hungry and in the mode of practicing and over practicing; that is another benefit. We all understand the mentality of a very talented player who has been handed everything in life, they more often than not take shortcuts and don't do the small things properly. Create an environment where you earn by also doing all the small things, you win long term while taking short term hits. This is what was going on Hoosiers, coach made them do the passing thing and also benched the star guy or whatnot. It's about the team and player development, not short term fan visual pleasure.
I think we all have experience knowing the difference between high school level athletes and D1 level athletes, it's a decent jump in talent. There is a GINORMOUS gap between D1 and NBA level athletes, it is breathtaking up close. Players need to get used to the speed of the game, and then they need to get used to the nuances of the game, and then they need to get used to the NBA lifestyle of travel etc., and then they need to learn their team's playbook (both offense and defense), and then the last part is learning the nuances of their own teammates and then the opponents. Those things are HARD and take time. It's why pro level players watch film all the time. Do not fall for the thought process that Kolek is doing nothing because you can't see it. Or, maybe do it, it's an assumption that needs verifying.
So, what is our collective take on how long it takes a rookie to get up to speed on all of that to be able to perform? Training camp? 1 week? 1 month? What's your take on that? How are you quantifying that into the equation? Are you? Fans don't need to be responsible for that, coaching staffs do.
Every team leader, parent, coach, etc wants their understudy to succeed. You can't learn in an environment where you are overwhelmed too much. So what's the formula for that? When do you know your players will fail uphill versus just outright fail like Frank Ntilikina and so many more? You need to build confidence as a coach. What is the formula for that or just throw player into the NBA ocean? Do you favor a slow development plan or none? One of the biggest hits I see fans point at Thibs is that he is not a development coach. I see a lot of fans who don't want to even look out for development of any kind, they just care about wins really and anything that will help the last game, including just playing a rookies without any regard for anything else.
Unfortunately, the Knicks are also in a position where most all of their team is new. It is always harder to gel with newer teammate, by introducing rookies, you extend that gel period in normal circumstances. It was easy for OG to fit into the starting lineup last year; he is a vet with a well defined role who already understood what to do because he had already been through the mechanics of starting and playing, etc.
This is not so much about Kolek and his talents directly and what he could have already potentially been bringing to the team. It's also about the team dynamic and Kolek's development process. The Knicks have demonstrated to us over and over again that they prefer the methodical path forward. It is a for better or worse scenario; there are pluses and minuses to this versus the opposite.
I'd guess that these are the things the team deliberates. It is far easier to set up a fully understood system that every player on the team understands and expects. Players know what to do and fully expect, coaches know what to do. Injury opportunities regularly pop up for every team and that is when you get your chance. Be ready.
Kolek has been ready.
There are no discrete formulas that work better or worse, just shades of what you want to do and how you go about executing it. The Knicks have picked a path and stuck to it. They have succeeded. The question remains, why do YOU want to change it or see it done differently? RJ, IQ, Mitch, iHart, Deuce, Grimes, Josh Hart, Brunson, Randle. They all got better from before they started. Some people that didn't get with the program are like Cam Reddish. Some just don't have the talent even though they put in the work, Sims and Precious. It's not magic.
I'll be proactive: The minutes police and their tiny catch-all responses can kick rocks, it's a well traveled response that is disassociated with the above for a host of reasons.