fishmike wrote:LivingLegend wrote:jaydh wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:jaydh wrote:cool highlight real.reality is, when he's on the floor our offense plays 4 on 5 where the other team always has a help defender playing off Hart
I mean the dude averaged 13.6pts, 9.6rebs, 5.9ast, 1.5stls on 52% shooting, 33% from 3, 77.6% from FT, 37.6mins per game over 77games on a 51 win team. While those are very very strong counting stats. Lets look at his analytics.
ORTG: 125
DRTG: 112
TS%: .611
OWS: 5.4
DWS: 3.8
WS: 9.2
WS/48: .153
OBPM: 1.1
DBPM: 1.8
BPM: 2.8
VORP: 3.6
REB%: 14.6
AST%: 20.7
USG%: 15.3
TO%: 15.5
Dude had a monster season overall and greatly contributed to our seasons success given the fact that he was 3rd on the team in WS/48 and 1st in Vorp while playing the 2nd most mins(Mikal)and 2nd most games(Mikal). Also so much for the his defense wasn't good narative.
His showing against the Pacers wasn't great. Yet he averaged 12-9-6ast-1.5stls vs Pistons on 50%fg & 50% 3pt in 37mins. 14.5-8-4.5 on 46%fg 38% 3pt in 37mins vs Boston.
Apparently we need to throw all that away and past playoff heroics and trash on Hart due to the Pacers series which he had 4 out of 6 games with double digit rebounds. Smh Knick fans.
After MDA made it hot to have more 3pt shooters. Over the last 15 years teams have usually had at least one player in the starting lineup that didn't hit threes. Mostly a C or PF. This shouldn't have staggard the offense the way it did. Hart is simply being used as a surface level scapegoat for the deeper fundemental issue with last years starting lineup. Which was lack of rim protection within the starting lineup, inability to maximize OG defensively regarding matchups due to playing him at PF. Lack of effective ball movement overall for a more fluid offense. Interesting how Ihart made that aspet look better with less shooters due to his passing IQ out of the high post. While also offering strong rim protection and rebounding.
Jokic had a 125 offensive rating per NBA.com, you sure Hart did too? i'll take the other #s with a grain of salt. is it true or not that teams play off him and easily double our other players as a result? OG and Bridges play out of position because he starts. how many times does he shrug in confusion out there or just bolt down the court with the ball only to throw it away because he gets confused on what to do.. maybe its just because i watch the playoffs more than reg season but it wasn't a good look
He was bad and it wasn't just 1 or 2 things -- he simply had his head up his arss often and his effort was concentrated on putting up stats towards triple doubles that often were empty and influenced by high minutes/usage on the court.
you guys should go cuddle and talk about how bad Josh Hart is. Phucking Knick fans. Saying Josh Hart is out there collecting stats is the worst take I have heard. Just zero respect for a post like that. Just a terrible take. Nalod has better takes.
I just don't understand how breaking the alltime Knick record for triple doubles could in any view be "stat padding". BY definition, triple doubles affect multiple facets of the game. It's not like low efficiency shot chucking.
Josh Hart has become a ridiculous line in the sand on Knicks internet. He's either one of the best glue players in the league or he flatout sucks and is unplayable. I think 100% of NBA coaches would have him in the former category. We know he doesn't like to shoot. The reality is the guy can score in a variety of ways and does literally everything on the floor that others aren't doing. There' very few players that fill as many gaps as this guy. And my gosh he averaged like 13.6/9.8/5.9 on 52.5% shooting? There's only a handful of players in the league that give you more stuff without demanding the ball constantly.
Anyway I find the same issues with Kolek. Man there's no in between on anything any more!
Also I don't know if anyone has seen Josh Hart's gnarly finger injury, but he was shooting about 40% from 3 in the first 2 rounds and he had issues shooting against the Pacers...now you know why.
fishmike wrote:LivingLegend wrote:jaydh wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:jaydh wrote:cool highlight real.reality is, when he's on the floor our offense plays 4 on 5 where the other team always has a help defender playing off Hart
I mean the dude averaged 13.6pts, 9.6rebs, 5.9ast, 1.5stls on 52% shooting, 33% from 3, 77.6% from FT, 37.6mins per game over 77games on a 51 win team.
While those are very very strong counting stats. Lets look at his analytics.
ORTG: 125
DRTG: 112
TS%: .611
OWS: 5.4
DWS: 3.8
WS: 9.2
WS/48: .153
OBPM: 1.1
DBPM: 1.8
BPM: 2.8
VORP: 3.6
REB%: 14.6
AST%: 20.7
USG%: 15.3
TO%: 15.5
Dude had a monster season overall and greatly contributed to our seasons success given the fact that he was 3rd on the team in WS/48 and 1st in Vorp while playing the 2nd most mins(Mikal)and 2nd most games(Mikal). Also so much for the his defense wasn't good narative.
His showing against the Pacers wasn't great. Yet he averaged 12-9-6ast-1.5stls vs Pistons on 50%fg & 50% 3pt in 37mins. 14.5-8-4.5 on 46%fg 38% 3pt in 37mins vs Boston.
Apparently we need to throw all that away and past playoff heroics and trash on Hart due to the Pacers series which he had 4 out of 6 games with double digit rebounds. Smh Knick fans.
After MDA made it hot to have more 3pt shooters. Over the last 15 years teams have usually had at least one player in the starting lineup that didn't hit threes. Mostly a C or PF. This shouldn't have staggard the offense the way it did. Hart is simply being used as a surface level scapegoat for the deeper fundemental issue with last years starting lineup. Which was lack of rim protection within the starting lineup, inability to maximize OG defensively regarding matchups due to playing him at PF. Lack of effective ball movement overall for a more fluid offense. Interesting how Ihart made that aspet look better with less shooters due to his passing IQ out of the high post. While also offering strong rim protection and rebounding.
Jokic had a 125 offensive rating per NBA.com, you sure Hart did too? i'll take the other #s with a grain of salt.
is it true or not that teams play off him and easily double our other players as a result? OG and Bridges play out of position because he starts. how many times does he shrug in confusion out there or just bolt down the court with the ball only to throw it away because he gets confused on what to do.. maybe its just because i watch the playoffs more than reg season but it wasn't a good look
He was bad and it wasn't just 1 or 2 things -- he simply had his head up his arss often and his effort was concentrated on putting up stats towards triple doubles that often were empty and influenced by high minutes/usage on the court.
you guys should go cuddle and talk about how bad Josh Hart is. Phucking Knick fans. Saying Josh Hart is out there collecting stats is the worst take I have heard. Just zero respect for a post like that. Just a terrible take. Nalod has better takes.
Im just here to notch up thread count........
VDesai wrote:Josh Hart has become a ridiculous line in the sand on Knicks internet. He's either one of the best glue players in the league or he flatout sucks and is unplayable. I think 100% of NBA coaches would have him in the former category. We know he doesn't like to shoot. The reality is the guy can score in a variety of ways and does literally everything on the floor that others aren't doing. There' very few players that fill as many gaps as this guy. And my gosh he averaged like 13.6/9.8/5.9 on 52.5% shooting? There's only a handful of players in the league that give you more stuff without demanding the ball constantly.
Him being one of the best glue guys in the league last year is supported by a high amount of data. Him flat out sucking and unplayable is supported by "Feels".
Kolek is the new Arcidiacono
ToddTT wrote:Rookie wrote:Kolek is the new Arcidiacono
Three seconds!
Is that how fast it takes the player Kolek is defending to go from baseline to baseline? 
Name a player with worse defense than Kolek?
Rookie wrote:PassTheBall wrote:Name a player with worse defense than Kolek?
Brunson?
Bonnie Blue? Nah, you at least have to submit and sign papers before you take her to the hole.
Hart is SO GREAT that every starting line-up the world is suggesting this year has Hart on the bench.
MITCH/kat/OG/Mikal/Brunson or Brunson/Deuce/Mikal/OG/Kat ———- NO HART.
And every time someone suggests playing Mitch you have to quantify that with but Mitch can’t be on the floor with Josh because of spacing issues.
Then we look at adding guys like Smart/Simmons who both struggle to shoot and what does everyone say? But you can’t play those guys with Josh Hart.
So Hart is great - just can’t start him, can’t play him heavy minutes and need to surround him with 4 Steph Curry’s.
Russell Westbrook gets 1,000 triple doubles and passes balls into the stands and is a hall of famer but Knicks fans want nothing to do with Russ. Josh Hart gets a few triple doubles, throws balls into stands, guards nobody and he is UNTOUCHABLE.
For the record - I like Josh Hart — like him off bench in certain line-ups if he defends and keeps TO’s low.
LivingLegend wrote:Hart is SO GREAT that every starting line-up the world is suggesting this year has Hart on the bench.MITCH/kat/OG/Mikal/Brunson or Brunson/Deuce/Mikal/OG/Kat ———- NO HART.
That's actually not true. The Knicks starting lineup had a mediocre net rating but was used the most. Basically you swap any one player from the SL for another and you found a more efficient lineup. Of Knicks highest volume lineups other than the SL, that had a great net rating, many featured Hart. The one lineup that stands out the most is Brunson-McBride-Hart-Anunoby-KAT that was a +34.4. The lineup that is Brunson-McBride-Bridges-Anunoby-KAT was also really good, a +33.3.
So really the data is not saying anything about Hart, but that the Knicks did better with McBride on the floor as the off guard rather than having Hart or Bridges on the floor. That makes sense because that lineup has more ballhandling, 3 pt shooting and more aggressive on ball defense. That's more of a statement on McBride than one on Hart or Bridges.
https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanc...
VDesai wrote:Josh Hart has become a ridiculous line in the sand on Knicks internet. He's either one of the best glue players in the league or he flatout sucks and is unplayable. I think 100% of NBA coaches would have him in the former category. We know he doesn't like to shoot. The reality is the guy can score in a variety of ways and does literally everything on the floor that others aren't doing. There' very few players that fill as many gaps as this guy. And my gosh he averaged like 13.6/9.8/5.9 on 52.5% shooting? There's only a handful of players in the league that give you more stuff without demanding the ball constantly.
not only that he's literally the ONLY ball mover on the whole team. Nobody else passed the ball last year. KAT started and realized it's never coming back. Brunson has very low assists for the amount he holds the ball. Payne chucks. McBride is ball handler at best. Josh is the only guy who was a consistent ball mover.
It's why those internet takes are stupid and we will see the next coach ALSO play Josh 35+ minutes per game because of all the things VDesai mentions above. Phucking stat padding. Wow. Anyway... lovely day out here today.
Panos wrote:fishmike wrote:LivingLegend wrote:jaydh wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:jaydh wrote:cool highlight real.reality is, when he's on the floor our offense plays 4 on 5 where the other team always has a help defender playing off Hart
I mean the dude averaged 13.6pts, 9.6rebs, 5.9ast, 1.5stls on 52% shooting, 33% from 3, 77.6% from FT, 37.6mins per game over 77games on a 51 win team. While those are very very strong counting stats. Lets look at his analytics.
ORTG: 125
DRTG: 112
TS%: .611
OWS: 5.4
DWS: 3.8
WS: 9.2
WS/48: .153
OBPM: 1.1
DBPM: 1.8
BPM: 2.8
VORP: 3.6
REB%: 14.6
AST%: 20.7
USG%: 15.3
TO%: 15.5
Dude had a monster season overall and greatly contributed to our seasons success given the fact that he was 3rd on the team in WS/48 and 1st in Vorp while playing the 2nd most mins(Mikal)and 2nd most games(Mikal). Also so much for the his defense wasn't good narative.
His showing against the Pacers wasn't great. Yet he averaged 12-9-6ast-1.5stls vs Pistons on 50%fg & 50% 3pt in 37mins. 14.5-8-4.5 on 46%fg 38% 3pt in 37mins vs Boston.
Apparently we need to throw all that away and past playoff heroics and trash on Hart due to the Pacers series which he had 4 out of 6 games with double digit rebounds. Smh Knick fans.
After MDA made it hot to have more 3pt shooters. Over the last 15 years teams have usually had at least one player in the starting lineup that didn't hit threes. Mostly a C or PF. This shouldn't have staggard the offense the way it did. Hart is simply being used as a surface level scapegoat for the deeper fundemental issue with last years starting lineup. Which was lack of rim protection within the starting lineup, inability to maximize OG defensively regarding matchups due to playing him at PF. Lack of effective ball movement overall for a more fluid offense. Interesting how Ihart made that aspet look better with less shooters due to his passing IQ out of the high post. While also offering strong rim protection and rebounding.
Jokic had a 125 offensive rating per NBA.com, you sure Hart did too? i'll take the other #s with a grain of salt. is it true or not that teams play off him and easily double our other players as a result? OG and Bridges play out of position because he starts. how many times does he shrug in confusion out there or just bolt down the court with the ball only to throw it away because he gets confused on what to do.. maybe its just because i watch the playoffs more than reg season but it wasn't a good look
He was bad and it wasn't just 1 or 2 things -- he simply had his head up his arss often and his effort was concentrated on putting up stats towards triple doubles that often were empty and influenced by high minutes/usage on the court.
you guys should go cuddle and talk about how bad Josh Hart is. Phucking Knick fans. Saying Josh Hart is out there collecting stats is the worst take I have heard. Just zero respect for a post like that. Just a terrible take. Nalod has better takes.
I just don't understand how breaking the alltime Knick record for triple doubles could in any view be "stat padding". BY definition, triple doubles affect multiple facets of the game. It's not like low efficiency shot chucking.
all the time winning games... Best Knick team we've had in decades and this guy is one of the biggest reasons.
LivingLegend wrote:Hart is SO GREAT that every starting line-up the world is suggesting this year has Hart on the bench.MITCH/kat/OG/Mikal/Brunson or Brunson/Deuce/Mikal/OG/Kat ———- NO HART.
And every time someone suggests playing Mitch you have to quantify that with but Mitch can’t be on the floor with Josh because of spacing issues.
Then we look at adding guys like Smart/Simmons who both struggle to shoot and what does everyone say? But you can’t play those guys with Josh Hart.
So Hart is great - just can’t start him, can’t play him heavy minutes and need to surround him with 4 Steph Curry’s.
Russell Westbrook gets 1,000 triple doubles and passes balls into the stands and is a hall of famer but Knicks fans want nothing to do with Russ. Josh Hart gets a few triple doubles, throws balls into stands, guards nobody and he is UNTOUCHABLE.
For the record - I like Josh Hart — like him off bench in certain line-ups if he defends and keeps TO’s low.
cant start him indeed... you might end up in the conference finals or something. Get the phuck outta here with that jive.
Is every thread now a Hart thread?
BigDaddyG wrote:Rookie wrote:PassTheBall wrote:Name a player with worse defense than Kolek?
Brunson?
Bonnie Blue? Nah, you at least have to submit and sign papers before you take her to the hole.
🤣
But honestly we have no room on the roster for another PG that can’t guard. I predict a trade.
I think Kolek’s biggest obstacle at this point is conditioning. You look at PGs who were the same size that succeeded in the NBA, made a point of getting themselves jacked up. Kolek looks about the same as he did in last year’s SL. Can’t expect a big jump in his game shortly after the season ended, after 7 minutes a game.
But Kolek has had enough time to work on getting in NBA shape. Better conditioning helps on both sides of the court. Should think about going to IMG, or one of those places. Or hire a full time trainer, if he hasn’t already.
