Knicks · Kolek has no bag (page 5)
ramtour420 wrote:Kolek needs plays and creativity on offense which Thibs has none. Thibs needs ISO players.
A guy shoots 30 pct from the field and 11 pct from 3 and 40 pct from the line and its because the Coach is not creative enough to figure out how to get him to score? What level of creativity is required here? What is Thibs supposed to be, Pablo Picasso? Can we just blame a player for sucking, because Im sure Kolek would own that he couldnt make a freaking shot.
VDesai wrote:ramtour420 wrote:Kolek needs plays and creativity on offense which Thibs has none. Thibs needs ISO players.A guy shoots 30 pct from the field and 11 pct from 3 and 40 pct from the line and its because the Coach is not creative enough to figure out how to get him to score? What level of creativity is required here? What is Thibs supposed to be, Pablo Picasso? Can we just blame a player for sucking, because Im sure Kolek would own that he couldnt make a freaking shot.
His shooting numbers are terrible, but I can argue that with consistent minutes that will change. I was talking about the offense as in involving others, you know with the passing. He has done ab excellent job with that, but in order to really unlock Kolek he needs a playbook similar to the one Nash had with the Suns or Stockton had with Utah. My point was that Thibs hasn't shown us any type of creativity or improvement on that front. Also,when you are a threat to pass because of how a play is designed it open up easier scoring opportunities. Same goes for Brunson
Maybe its ok to just admit that a 2nd round pick in his rookie year is not a good option right now? Oh I forgot he is being equated with 2 hall of fame all time greats, so he has gotta play
VDesai wrote:He got minutes for 7 games in a row and the scoring got worse.Maybe its ok to just admit that a 2nd round pick in his rookie year is not a good option right now? Oh I forgot he is being equated with 2 hall of fame all time greats, so he has gotta play
Who is equating him with 2 hall of Fame PGs? The point I was making is that Kolek needs a different playbook from the one we are using now
ramtour420 wrote:VDesai wrote:He got minutes for 7 games in a row and the scoring got worse.Maybe its ok to just admit that a 2nd round pick in his rookie year is not a good option right now? Oh I forgot he is being equated with 2 hall of fame all time greats, so he has gotta play
Who is equating him with 2 hall of Fame PGs? The point I was making is that Kolek needs a different playbook from the one we are using now
You should just said we should make the play book revolve around him the way the Suns did for Nash or the Jazz did for Stockton? Do you realize how absurd that sounds?
Here's what he is - a pretty good 2nd round pick that isnt ready to contribute this season, but has enough potential to be a 15 mpg backup PG next season.
VDesai wrote:ramtour420 wrote:VDesai wrote:He got minutes for 7 games in a row and the scoring got worse.Maybe its ok to just admit that a 2nd round pick in his rookie year is not a good option right now? Oh I forgot he is being equated with 2 hall of fame all time greats, so he has gotta play
Who is equating him with 2 hall of Fame PGs? The point I was making is that Kolek needs a different playbook from the one we are using nowYou should just said we should make the play book revolve around him the way the Suns did for Nash or the Jazz did for Stockton? Do you realize how absurd that sounds?
I have been saying all season that we should make the playbook revolve around Brunson and KAT the way the Suns did for Nash and Amare and the way the Jazz did for Stockton+ Malone. Kolek just happens to be the type of player that would thrive in that system. No more, no less
I agree, in a different offensive system, he would look better. In Thibs system, he will be marginalized and look like a late 2nd round pick or a non NBA player period. That doesn't mean he cant help a team win games, just not this year with the knicks. Lets see what the off season does for him. Lets see if his ISO game improves, which should increase other things like his offensive confidence to score in different ways. JB is the best mentor to have for this skill set, as a small guard.
blkexec wrote:Kolek will not shine as a 1v1 player. He's a classic old school type of PG, thats currently being phased out of the NBA. If Kolek played in the 70's or 80's he would've been a higher pick. But in todays game, the NBA gives a higher grade for your ISO skills. That part of Kolek's game will take time to develop.I agree, in a different offensive system, he would look better. In Thibs system, he will be marginalized and look like a late 2nd round pick or a non NBA player period. That doesn't mean he cant help a team win games, just not this year with the knicks. Lets see what the off season does for him. Lets see if his ISO game improves, which should increase other things like his offensive confidence to score in different ways. JB is the best mentor to have for this skill set, as a small guard.
I think its too soon to write off Kolek's 1 on 1 ability, before next season anyway. Hasnt shown it often, but Ive seen some creative takes to the rim, didnt finish on most of them, but that takes practice.
Im hoping Kolek does what Frank didnt do after his rookie season (or the rest of his career) which is play as much hoops over the summer as possible. Drew league etc. Thats how Kolek will take his game to the next level. Not producing flashy workout videos with his crew.
GustavBahler wrote:blkexec wrote:Kolek will not shine as a 1v1 player. He's a classic old school type of PG, thats currently being phased out of the NBA. If Kolek played in the 70's or 80's he would've been a higher pick. But in todays game, the NBA gives a higher grade for your ISO skills. That part of Kolek's game will take time to develop.I agree, in a different offensive system, he would look better. In Thibs system, he will be marginalized and look like a late 2nd round pick or a non NBA player period. That doesn't mean he cant help a team win games, just not this year with the knicks. Lets see what the off season does for him. Lets see if his ISO game improves, which should increase other things like his offensive confidence to score in different ways. JB is the best mentor to have for this skill set, as a small guard.
I think its too soon to write off Kolek's 1 on 1 ability, before next season anyway. Hasnt shown it often, but Ive seen some creative takes to the rim, didnt finish on most of them, but that takes practice.
Im hoping Kolek does what Frank didnt do after his rookie season (or the rest of his career) which is play as much hoops over the summer as possible. Drew league etc. Thats how Kolek will take his game to the next level. Not producing flashy workout videos with his crew.
Frank played for team france in off season. Some years he was simply injured.
You really think Kolek needs to play more off season? Do you have any idea really other than video's what these guys do?
Kolek is in that space between Gleague and NBA, and is 24 years old. Nobody is really writing him off but the hype around him was he was to be very ready as a role player. Frank and Deuce were teenagers when they came here. Frank for a host of reasons did not develop, but Deuce crossed that fine line. This year has he declined? Injuries hamper his abilty for his body to hold up to the level needed to excel at the level he has shown? If he lost a step or some of his hops it might matter.
Kolek is close. Question is can he cross that line that Deuce did?
Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:blkexec wrote:Kolek will not shine as a 1v1 player. He's a classic old school type of PG, thats currently being phased out of the NBA. If Kolek played in the 70's or 80's he would've been a higher pick. But in todays game, the NBA gives a higher grade for your ISO skills. That part of Kolek's game will take time to develop.I agree, in a different offensive system, he would look better. In Thibs system, he will be marginalized and look like a late 2nd round pick or a non NBA player period. That doesn't mean he cant help a team win games, just not this year with the knicks. Lets see what the off season does for him. Lets see if his ISO game improves, which should increase other things like his offensive confidence to score in different ways. JB is the best mentor to have for this skill set, as a small guard.
I think its too soon to write off Kolek's 1 on 1 ability, before next season anyway. Hasnt shown it often, but Ive seen some creative takes to the rim, didnt finish on most of them, but that takes practice.
Im hoping Kolek does what Frank didnt do after his rookie season (or the rest of his career) which is play as much hoops over the summer as possible. Drew league etc. Thats how Kolek will take his game to the next level. Not producing flashy workout videos with his crew.
Frank played for team france in off season. Some years he was simply injured.
You really think Kolek needs to play more off season? Do you have any idea really other than video's what these guys do?
Kolek is in that space between Gleague and NBA, and is 24 years old. Nobody is really writing him off but the hype around him was he was to be very ready as a role player. Frank and Deuce were teenagers when they came here. Frank for a host of reasons did not develop, but Deuce crossed that fine line. This year has he declined? Injuries hamper his abilty for his body to hold up to the level needed to excel at the level he has shown? If he lost a step or some of his hops it might matter.Kolek is close. Question is can he cross that line that Deuce did?
Playing for France isn’t the same as going to the lab, playing pickup basketball, to work on your game. Can’t do that playing for the French national team. Deuce didn’t become that player until season 3, so why we so quick to put Kolek’s game in a box?
Frank was playing pro ball from an early age and got about 20 minutes a game as a rook. Why didn’t he develop? I would say not working on the right things. How many times did Frank take it to the rim? Almost never. Deuce took years to develop. Which is why I’m surprised that some can’t wait a season to see if Kolek can work on his game and come back a better player.
Kolek was drafted mostly for his PG skills. Showed he has more than any other player on the team, including our All-Star PG. Too early to say that Kolek can’t do more. Not nearly big enough of a sample size. We don’t need a scoring PG to back up Brunson. We need a pass first PG who can also score. Kolek clearly focused this season on what got him drafted. Needs time to work on the rest.
Im not giving up on Kolek BTW. Just not on the homer train that he is not getting a fair shake.
He gets two years otherwise its next man up.
Deuce was 20 when we draft him.
He and Kolek are 24. As long as he is on the team Im rooting for him!
A pass first PG has to score and be a threat otherwise there is not enough movement by defense.
If not a deep threat players will back up on him. I he can't blow by them he needs to have a deep threat to move his man up.
Simple.
Nalod wrote:I can't answer the question, but I don't pretend I know what he did or did not do outside of YouTube videos'.
Im not giving up on Kolek BTW. Just not on the homer train that he is not getting a fair shake.
He gets two years otherwise its next man up.
Deuce was 20 when we draft him.
He and Kolek are 24. As long as he is on the team Im rooting for him!
A pass first PG has to score and be a threat otherwise there is not enough movement by defense.
If not a deep threat players will back up on him. I he can't blow by them he needs to have a deep threat to move his man up.
Simple.
Frank was never shy about sharing his offseason training regimen. Never read one story, or watched one posted clip of him playing pickup basketball in the US. Had no problem sharing the gym sessions with his buddies. Don’t have to be in his inner circle to put 2 and 2 together. Just look at the results.
Kolek focused so much on passing that he set an NBA record for assists to turnovers. As a rookie. To be a scoring threat in the NBA, it usually means getting through the stage where you have trouble finishing at the rim. Lots of ugly takes. It’s going to take more than a few games for Kolek to be a threat at the rim. The 3pt shooting was concerning, but that’s about confidence. I wouldn’t write off Kolek’s foot speed just yet.
We haven’t seen anyone share the rock like that as a rookie since Mark Jackson. Unfortunately the offense isn’t there yet. But it’s a rookie season where Kolek showed a lot without a lot of PT. A summer to work on his game, and I’m expecting good things next season. If he isn’t traded in a big deal for a superstar.
GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:I can't answer the question, but I don't pretend I know what he did or did not do outside of YouTube videos'.
Im not giving up on Kolek BTW. Just not on the homer train that he is not getting a fair shake.
He gets two years otherwise its next man up.
Deuce was 20 when we draft him.
He and Kolek are 24. As long as he is on the team Im rooting for him!
A pass first PG has to score and be a threat otherwise there is not enough movement by defense.
If not a deep threat players will back up on him. I he can't blow by them he needs to have a deep threat to move his man up.
Simple.Frank was never shy about sharing his offseason training regimen. Never read one story, or watched one posted clip of him playing pickup basketball in the US. Had no problem sharing the gym sessions with his buddies. Don’t have to be in his inner circle to put 2 and 2 together. Just look at the results.
Kolek focused so much on passing that he set an NBA record for assists to turnovers. As a rookie. To be a scoring threat in the NBA, it usually means getting through the stage where you have trouble finishing at the rim. Lots of ugly takes. It’s going to take more than a few games for Kolek to be a threat at the rim. The 3pt shooting was concerning, but that’s about confidence. I wouldn’t write off Kolek’s foot speed just yet.
We haven’t seen anyone share the rock like that as a rookie since Mark Jackson. Unfortunately the offense isn’t there yet. But it’s a rookie season where Kolek showed a lot without a lot of PT. A summer to work on his game, and I’m expecting good things next season. If he isn’t traded in a big deal for a superstar.
So basically your saying if you did not see it, it did not happen?
Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:I can't answer the question, but I don't pretend I know what he did or did not do outside of YouTube videos'.
Im not giving up on Kolek BTW. Just not on the homer train that he is not getting a fair shake.
He gets two years otherwise its next man up.
Deuce was 20 when we draft him.
He and Kolek are 24. As long as he is on the team Im rooting for him!
A pass first PG has to score and be a threat otherwise there is not enough movement by defense.
If not a deep threat players will back up on him. I he can't blow by them he needs to have a deep threat to move his man up.
Simple.Frank was never shy about sharing his offseason training regimen. Never read one story, or watched one posted clip of him playing pickup basketball in the US. Had no problem sharing the gym sessions with his buddies. Don’t have to be in his inner circle to put 2 and 2 together. Just look at the results.
Kolek focused so much on passing that he set an NBA record for assists to turnovers. As a rookie. To be a scoring threat in the NBA, it usually means getting through the stage where you have trouble finishing at the rim. Lots of ugly takes. It’s going to take more than a few games for Kolek to be a threat at the rim. The 3pt shooting was concerning, but that’s about confidence. I wouldn’t write off Kolek’s foot speed just yet.
We haven’t seen anyone share the rock like that as a rookie since Mark Jackson. Unfortunately the offense isn’t there yet. But it’s a rookie season where Kolek showed a lot without a lot of PT. A summer to work on his game, and I’m expecting good things next season. If he isn’t traded in a big deal for a superstar.
So basically your saying if you did not see it, it did not happen?
Still flacking for a system pick. “You think you know more than Phil?” That was your stock response for years to anyone who said that drafting Frank was a mistake. Right to the end.
Frank was a major BUST. No evidence of trying to take his game to another level. Just asking me to prove a negative.
GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:I can't answer the question, but I don't pretend I know what he did or did not do outside of YouTube videos'.
Im not giving up on Kolek BTW. Just not on the homer train that he is not getting a fair shake.
He gets two years otherwise its next man up.
Deuce was 20 when we draft him.
He and Kolek are 24. As long as he is on the team Im rooting for him!
A pass first PG has to score and be a threat otherwise there is not enough movement by defense.
If not a deep threat players will back up on him. I he can't blow by them he needs to have a deep threat to move his man up.
Simple.Frank was never shy about sharing his offseason training regimen. Never read one story, or watched one posted clip of him playing pickup basketball in the US. Had no problem sharing the gym sessions with his buddies. Don’t have to be in his inner circle to put 2 and 2 together. Just look at the results.
Kolek focused so much on passing that he set an NBA record for assists to turnovers. As a rookie. To be a scoring threat in the NBA, it usually means getting through the stage where you have trouble finishing at the rim. Lots of ugly takes. It’s going to take more than a few games for Kolek to be a threat at the rim. The 3pt shooting was concerning, but that’s about confidence. I wouldn’t write off Kolek’s foot speed just yet.
We haven’t seen anyone share the rock like that as a rookie since Mark Jackson. Unfortunately the offense isn’t there yet. But it’s a rookie season where Kolek showed a lot without a lot of PT. A summer to work on his game, and I’m expecting good things next season. If he isn’t traded in a big deal for a superstar.
So basically your saying if you did not see it, it did not happen?
Still flacking for a system pick. “You think you know more than Phil?” That was your stock response for years to anyone who said that drafting Frank was a mistake. Right to the end.
Frank was a major BUST. No evidence of trying to take his game to another level. Just asking me to prove a negative.
Im not debating Frank's or Elf exclusion. I said it many times over the years the play on the court determines the outcome. Its hard to predict a players trajectory. Some make it, some don't for many reasons.
Look at you making all kinds of prognostications about Koleks career and laying out his off season regimen as if you have all figured out. Frank was a mistake? Or Frank was a stab/risk? Frank was 18. Kolek turned 24 before the season started. Frank is 26.
Frank was gone by age 22. We talking about a very different set of circumstances.
Phil Drafted Frank and Phil was let go a few weeks later. Frank played on some shit teams and had like a a different coach each year. So yes, there was allowances for age, system(s) and experience. I wanted the kid to pan out just like any other knick rookie.
When it was time, we moved on. Drafting is not easy. Hindsight is.
The question is "if Gustav does not see it, does it not happen"? Not just Frank, but any player?
Of course I think Kolek will get his shot together and my hope he replaces Payne for many reasons.
yes Im still flacking for a system pick. Your doing what you accused me of doing with Frank. Kolek a system pick? Maybe.