Knicks · Kolek has no bag (page 3)

ramtour420 wrote:If I was to advise him, I'd say to shoot 500 threes every day. If he can become a near 40 percent shooter from 3 it would open up the drives, which , in turn, would make it easier to find open guys from inside out. Also a little floater would be amazing because our playbook allowed the PG to get into the paint all day.
I just wish we had some variety on the PnR so that we could give the ball to the big on the move. Kolek- KAT PnR would be deadly. Simply deadly as KAT has so many moves around the hoop to finish

So... you want to trade him for IQ?

Panos wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:If I was to advise him, I'd say to shoot 500 threes every day. If he can become a near 40 percent shooter from 3 it would open up the drives, which , in turn, would make it easier to find open guys from inside out. Also a little floater would be amazing because our playbook allowed the PG to get into the paint all day.
I just wish we had some variety on the PnR so that we could give the ball to the big on the move. Kolek- KAT PnR would be deadly. Simply deadly as KAT has so many moves around the hoop to finish

So... you want to trade him for IQ?

Always thought IQ was the perfect backup PG for JB. The advantage with kolek, he’s trying to climb his way up to being JB backup at a cheaper cap hit.

Fish!
The same guy who argued Frank was a phenomenal pick and the future of the Knicks, is now saying Kolek “has no bag”?
I’ll take the over!

Think the reality is somewhere in the middle between overhyped 15th man mania and has no bag.
For a rookie in his first couple of games with high level vets, he seems to be doing pretty good. Yes, he needs to develop more offense (as mentioned on game thread) Needs to look for his shot more but with guys like KAT, Bridges and OG on the floor with him, think he is doing the high IQ thing.

Let’s give him a bit longer than a couple of games.

blkexec wrote:

Panos wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:If I was to advise him, I'd say to shoot 500 threes every day. If he can become a near 40 percent shooter from 3 it would open up the drives, which , in turn, would make it easier to find open guys from inside out. Also a little floater would be amazing because our playbook allowed the PG to get into the paint all day.
I just wish we had some variety on the PnR so that we could give the ball to the big on the move. Kolek- KAT PnR would be deadly. Simply deadly as KAT has so many moves around the hoop to finish

So... you want to trade him for IQ?

Always thought IQ was the perfect backup PG for JB. The advantage with kolek, he’s trying to climb his way up to being JB backup at a cheaper cap hit.

Same. It hurt losing him. And DDV. Either one of those guys as 6th man would complete this team. Let's hope Rose can work his magic this offseason and conjure the next one.

Panos wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:If I was to advise him, I'd say to shoot 500 threes every day. If he can become a near 40 percent shooter from 3 it would open up the drives, which , in turn, would make it easier to find open guys from inside out. Also a little floater would be amazing because our playbook allowed the PG to get into the paint all day.
I just wish we had some variety on the PnR so that we could give the ball to the big on the move. Kolek- KAT PnR would be deadly. Simply deadly as KAT has so many moves around the hoop to finish

So... you want to trade him for IQ?

IQ is not bench material. He is a legit starter. We don't need a starting PG. But we could seduce two birds with one stone over here. We could develop Kolek into a starting material type of PG who would be playing off the bench for that window of years that Brunson and the team has. If it coincides with a Championship run- that would be the way

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ramtour420 wrote:

Panos wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:If I was to advise him, I'd say to shoot 500 threes every day. If he can become a near 40 percent shooter from 3 it would open up the drives, which , in turn, would make it easier to find open guys from inside out. Also a little floater would be amazing because our playbook allowed the PG to get into the paint all day.
I just wish we had some variety on the PnR so that we could give the ball to the big on the move. Kolek- KAT PnR would be deadly. Simply deadly as KAT has so many moves around the hoop to finish

So... you want to trade him for IQ?

IQ is not bench material. He is a legit starter. We don't need a starting PG. But we could seduce two birds with one stone over here. We could develop Kolek into a starting material type of PG who would be playing off the bench for that window of years that Brunson and the team has. If it coincides with a Championship run- that would be the way

Anyone you described: someone who passes like Kolek, shoots 40% from three, and can drop a floater is a legit starter. That was my point.

HofstraBBall wrote:Fish!
The same guy who argued Frank was a phenomenal pick and the future of the Knicks, is now saying Kolek “has no bag”?
I’ll take the over!

Think the reality is somewhere in the middle between overhyped 15th man mania and has no bag.
For a rookie in his first couple of games with high level vets, he seems to be doing pretty good. Yes, he needs to develop more offense (as mentioned on game thread) Needs to look for his shot more but with guys like KAT, Bridges and OG on the floor with him, think he is doing the high IQ thing.

Let’s give him a bit longer than a couple of games.

phenomenal? Pretty sure the argument was he was better than Dennis Smith

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Fish!
The same guy who argued Frank was a phenomenal pick and the future of the Knicks, is now saying Kolek “has no bag”?
I’ll take the over!

Think the reality is somewhere in the middle between overhyped 15th man mania and has no bag.
For a rookie in his first couple of games with high level vets, he seems to be doing pretty good. Yes, he needs to develop more offense (as mentioned on game thread) Needs to look for his shot more but with guys like KAT, Bridges and OG on the floor with him, think he is doing the high IQ thing.

Let’s give him a bit longer than a couple of games.

phenomenal? Pretty sure the argument was he was better than Dennis Smith

Dennis Smith Jr - Kevin Knox - both had first years that were on paper, productive - 15 pts, 5 asts for DSjr - Knox put up 12 pts. And both effectively gone.

I mean, we could use DSjr right now - someone with decent athleticism that can bring the ball up and initiate the offense and actually threaten somewhat on the offensive end.

I mean, surely he would be a better use to us right now than PJ Tucker.

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Fish!
The same guy who argued Frank was a phenomenal pick and the future of the Knicks, is now saying Kolek “has no bag”?
I’ll take the over!

Think the reality is somewhere in the middle between overhyped 15th man mania and has no bag.
For a rookie in his first couple of games with high level vets, he seems to be doing pretty good. Yes, he needs to develop more offense (as mentioned on game thread) Needs to look for his shot more but with guys like KAT, Bridges and OG on the floor with him, think he is doing the high IQ thing.

Let’s give him a bit longer than a couple of games.

phenomenal? Pretty sure the argument was he was better than Dennis Smith

Dennis Smith Jr - Kevin Knox - both had first years that were on paper, productive - 15 pts, 5 asts for DSjr - Knox put up 12 pts. And both effectively gone.

I mean, we could use DSjr right now - someone with decent athleticism that can bring the ball up and initiate the offense and actually threaten somewhat on the offensive end.

I mean, surely he would be a better use to us right now than PJ Tucker.

see Franco... the bold is your problem. The idea of Dennis Smith is nice. The player sucks. Like the idea of Kolek is awesome, but the actual basketball we get is not so much. Hopefully the idea becomes more reality and we get some good play from him. He looks a lot like a college player who doesnt really belong. Please Tyler make me eat my foolish blasphemous words!

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Fish!
The same guy who argued Frank was a phenomenal pick and the future of the Knicks, is now saying Kolek “has no bag”?
I’ll take the over!

Think the reality is somewhere in the middle between overhyped 15th man mania and has no bag.
For a rookie in his first couple of games with high level vets, he seems to be doing pretty good. Yes, he needs to develop more offense (as mentioned on game thread) Needs to look for his shot more but with guys like KAT, Bridges and OG on the floor with him, think he is doing the high IQ thing.

Let’s give him a bit longer than a couple of games.

phenomenal? Pretty sure the argument was he was better than Dennis Smith

Dennis Smith Jr - Kevin Knox - both had first years that were on paper, productive - 15 pts, 5 asts for DSjr - Knox put up 12 pts. And both effectively gone.

I mean, we could use DSjr right now - someone with decent athleticism that can bring the ball up and initiate the offense and actually threaten somewhat on the offensive end.

I mean, surely he would be a better use to us right now than PJ Tucker.

see Franco... the bold is your problem. The idea of Dennis Smith is nice. The player sucks. Like the idea of Kolek is awesome, but the actual basketball we get is not so much. Hopefully the idea becomes more reality and we get some good play from him. He looks a lot like a college player who doesnt really belong. Please Tyler make me eat my foolish blasphemous words!

I agree that Kolek might not be an NBA player- and it's his athleticism, or impairment there of that is the issue. Between the ears - wonderful player. I've wanted him to get more time - not be a starter.

I'm not sure how us needing another PG is my problem. It's the Knicks problem! And Thibs & Leon Rose's!

I get that DSjr hasn't worked out, but what I don't get is how he was able to perform at a decent level in his first year, and then nothing. I get that Knox was an example of a player scoring because someone had to score. I do think teams don't give players like DSjr a another chance - not that he hasn't probably had more than his share- because they'd rather try something else with some other player.

The NBA has deemed DSJr unusable by virtue of no team employing him.

VDesai wrote:The NBA has deemed DSJr unusable by virtue of no team employing him.

we could really use a wing who can guard 2/3/4, hit some 3s, handle the ball... someone like Cam Reddish!

Then ita "Knicks are stupid for letting this go"
Then its "this coach sucks, our starters are winded and this guy sits on the bench"
Then its "wow, Cam Reddish really sucks"

I hope Kolek gets it going tonight. He needs a few buckets to get himself going.

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Fish!
The same guy who argued Frank was a phenomenal pick and the future of the Knicks, is now saying Kolek “has no bag”?
I’ll take the over!

Think the reality is somewhere in the middle between overhyped 15th man mania and has no bag.
For a rookie in his first couple of games with high level vets, he seems to be doing pretty good. Yes, he needs to develop more offense (as mentioned on game thread) Needs to look for his shot more but with guys like KAT, Bridges and OG on the floor with him, think he is doing the high IQ thing.

Let’s give him a bit longer than a couple of games.

phenomenal? Pretty sure the argument was he was better than Dennis Smith

Dennis Smith Jr - Kevin Knox - both had first years that were on paper, productive - 15 pts, 5 asts for DSjr - Knox put up 12 pts. And both effectively gone.

I mean, we could use DSjr right now - someone with decent athleticism that can bring the ball up and initiate the offense and actually threaten somewhat on the offensive end.

I mean, surely he would be a better use to us right now than PJ Tucker.

see Franco... the bold is your problem. The idea of Dennis Smith is nice. The player sucks. Like the idea of Kolek is awesome, but the actual basketball we get is not so much. Hopefully the idea becomes more reality and we get some good play from him. He looks a lot like a college player who doesnt really belong. Please Tyler make me eat my foolish blasphemous words!

I agree that Kolek might not be an NBA player- and it's his athleticism, or impairment there of that is the issue. Between the ears - wonderful player. I've wanted him to get more time - not be a starter.

I'm not sure how us needing another PG is my problem. It's the Knicks problem! And Thibs & Leon Rose's!

I get that DSjr hasn't worked out, but what I don't get is how he was able to perform at a decent level in his first year, and then nothing. I get that Knox was an example of a player scoring because someone had to score. I do think teams don't give players like DSjr a another chance - not that he hasn't probably had more than his share- because they'd rather try something else with some other player.

Well, good thing he has a mentor like JB who’s not athletic and also undersized. Let’s hope Leon is smarter than you, fish and Mark Cuban. Kolek long term has a bright future. I can see Leon giving him a long term friendly deuce type contract.

DSj is also a good player, just not a starter. Majority of the problems with these under performing players like Frank, Knox, Obi for example, they were picked too high. And that comes with high expectations and internal pressure to meet those expectations. If they was picked in the 2nd round, their nba career would’ve had a totally different trajectory.

The advantage of kolek, he’s not a high draft pick and doesn’t have the same high expectations. So he will be fine if he continues to improve on what he’s good at and minimize his weaknesses. There’s plenty of examples of non athletic players with long outstanding NBA careers. Hell this league was founded and dominated by non athletic players. It was so bad they used to call travel of Dr. J for dunking. Goal tending on Wilt for his block shots.

Brook Lopez killed us on both ends, and he struggles to jump over a phone book. OG and JB can barely dunk the ball, which is crazy. But they are the most important players on the team.

It’s on Thibs to find a rotation once all these healthy bodies are back.

Panos wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

Panos wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:If I was to advise him, I'd say to shoot 500 threes every day. If he can become a near 40 percent shooter from 3 it would open up the drives, which , in turn, would make it easier to find open guys from inside out. Also a little floater would be amazing because our playbook allowed the PG to get into the paint all day.
I just wish we had some variety on the PnR so that we could give the ball to the big on the move. Kolek- KAT PnR would be deadly. Simply deadly as KAT has so many moves around the hoop to finish

So... you want to trade him for IQ?

IQ is not bench material. He is a legit starter. We don't need a starting PG. But we could seduce two birds with one stone over here. We could develop Kolek into a starting material type of PG who would be playing off the bench for that window of years that Brunson and the team has. If it coincides with a Championship run- that would be the way

Anyone you described: someone who passes like Kolek, shoots 40% from three, and can drop a floater is a legit starter. That was my point.

Actually, that would be an all-star. Steve Nash.2 if we can have Kolek work his way up to that in the 4-5 year window that we have with the Villanueva crew it would as solidify our backcourt. It could even pave the way to a Championship,among other things

blkexec wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Fish!
The same guy who argued Frank was a phenomenal pick and the future of the Knicks, is now saying Kolek “has no bag”?
I’ll take the over!

Think the reality is somewhere in the middle between overhyped 15th man mania and has no bag.
For a rookie in his first couple of games with high level vets, he seems to be doing pretty good. Yes, he needs to develop more offense (as mentioned on game thread) Needs to look for his shot more but with guys like KAT, Bridges and OG on the floor with him, think he is doing the high IQ thing.

Let’s give him a bit longer than a couple of games.

phenomenal? Pretty sure the argument was he was better than Dennis Smith

Dennis Smith Jr - Kevin Knox - both had first years that were on paper, productive - 15 pts, 5 asts for DSjr - Knox put up 12 pts. And both effectively gone.

I mean, we could use DSjr right now - someone with decent athleticism that can bring the ball up and initiate the offense and actually threaten somewhat on the offensive end.

I mean, surely he would be a better use to us right now than PJ Tucker.

see Franco... the bold is your problem. The idea of Dennis Smith is nice. The player sucks. Like the idea of Kolek is awesome, but the actual basketball we get is not so much. Hopefully the idea becomes more reality and we get some good play from him. He looks a lot like a college player who doesnt really belong. Please Tyler make me eat my foolish blasphemous words!

I agree that Kolek might not be an NBA player- and it's his athleticism, or impairment there of that is the issue. Between the ears - wonderful player. I've wanted him to get more time - not be a starter.

I'm not sure how us needing another PG is my problem. It's the Knicks problem! And Thibs & Leon Rose's!

I get that DSjr hasn't worked out, but what I don't get is how he was able to perform at a decent level in his first year, and then nothing. I get that Knox was an example of a player scoring because someone had to score. I do think teams don't give players like DSjr a another chance - not that he hasn't probably had more than his share- because they'd rather try something else with some other player.

Well, good thing he has a mentor like JB who’s not athletic and also undersized. Let’s hope Leon is smarter than you, fish and Mark Cuban. Kolek long term has a bright future. I can see Leon giving him a long term friendly deuce type contract.

DSj is also a good player, just not a starter. Majority of the problems with these under performing players like Frank, Knox, Obi for example, they were picked too high. And that comes with high expectations and internal pressure to meet those expectations. If they was picked in the 2nd round, their nba career would’ve had a totally different trajectory.

The advantage of kolek, he’s not a high draft pick and doesn’t have the same high expectations. So he will be fine if he continues to improve on what he’s good at and minimize his weaknesses. There’s plenty of examples of non athletic players with long outstanding NBA careers. Hell this league was founded and dominated by non athletic players. It was so bad they used to call travel of Dr. J for dunking. Goal tending on Wilt for his block shots.

Brook Lopez killed us on both ends, and he struggles to jump over a phone book. OG and JB can barely dunk the ball, which is crazy. But they are the most important players on the team.

It’s on Thibs to find a rotation once all these healthy bodies are back.

100% agree on Jalen Brunson being a wonderful model for Kolek. JB is not fast or quick, but he is incredibly coordinated, wonderful balance and impeccable timing, and between the ears, one of the smartest, savviest players.

I think the most we can expect from Kolek is a half way decent back up.

If I am not mistaken the guy had decent shooting % in college when he was starting and playing lots of minutes. So in my opinion we should not judge him yet, after just 3 games of meaningful minutes in his first year in the NBA. For sure, because of his size, he will never be an elite defender. However I believe once he becomes permanent member of the rotation and play enough games his shooting will be at a level where it would be good enough to compliment his passing. For me Its amazing to see a rookie to run the offense this way and very enjoyable to watch as a basketball fan. Imagine with 1-2 years of experience what he would be able to do.