Knicks · There's going to be a trade (page 10)

Nalod wrote:

PassTheBall wrote:The NBA trade deadline is the most suspenseful thing in all of sports.

and often ends in a dense thud of disappiontment.
The Bing Bongers get starphuch happy and usually disappointed.
But, yah never know!1!

Well, keeping the status quo and cheerleading them along is the likely course of action but fiscally it drives us off a cliff for coming years.

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martin wrote:Good news!!

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I dont think he makes it until the summer, and I believe he won't be eligible for a supermax with a new team if he's traded in the summer. But would be if he's traded at the deadline

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:Good news!!

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I dont think he makes it until the summer, and I believe he won't be eligible for a supermax with a new team if he's traded in the summer. But would be if he's traded at the deadline

you are correct

fwk00 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Shit like this dumbs us down.....

https://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-k...

Says how important he is but if we trade him it solves the "Lose him for nothing" but does not solve who takes his place and his production.
The choice is not hard if there is a belief this team can make a bona fide run. While that is not a popular thought the last two weeks, it need be addressed.

Define bona fide run.

We have seen this movie before with Mitch. Will he survive the rest of the season and the early playoffs?

You've got to have an extraordinary faith in KAT navigating the basketball court to trade Mitch while simultaneously believing Mitch is not a player made of glass.

Not an easy problem.

I want to think we can make it to the finals as we are.
Im not into the blame thing and thinking KAT leaving is an imporovement unless I can evaluate what comes back in return.
I love OG, but Milwaukee should make the play for him with Duece and say Yabu to make salary work. Thats a 3 for 1 concept. Not likely.
Pair Giannis with KAT. Bucks don't want Kat, do they??
Not gonna be upset if knicks moslty stand pat.

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nycericanguy wrote:I mean the Clarkson minutes seem to be up for grabs right now. Disappointed that Kolek has really seen his minutes dwindle, I think we were better with him playing more.

Some players need the minutes to stay in the groove. I think Kolek is that way.
Not a fan of the Kolek criticism. He can play. If they are going to bury him, then trade him.

fwk00 wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:I mean the Clarkson minutes seem to be up for grabs right now. Disappointed that Kolek has really seen his minutes dwindle, I think we were better with him playing more.

Some players need the minutes to stay in the groove. I think Kolek is that way.
Not a fan of the Kolek criticism. He can play. If they are going to bury him, then trade him.

Kolek is a guy you can commit to as a long-term second unit floor general, but he is also a player who needs that support to thrive. He is not a free-style knock your socks off guy who will have standout games if his time is erratic. He's a system player who will thrive within a steady rotation role. You could see his confidence and focus dipped recently and he was making dumb passes I was kind of shocked to see from him considering how clean his game is usually. He needs to rein in those errors to stay in the rotation now.

Lately, Brown has been trying to cope with team failures and as a result he tightened the rotation until he got the win he needed. The biggest change has been the return of Shamet who instantly lifted the team with his defense, three point shooting and clean style of play. He took Clarkson's minutes, but he doesn't have to impact Kolek's minutes as much.

Nalod wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Shit like this dumbs us down.....

https://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-k...

Says how important he is but if we trade him it solves the "Lose him for nothing" but does not solve who takes his place and his production.
The choice is not hard if there is a belief this team can make a bona fide run. While that is not a popular thought the last two weeks, it need be addressed.

Define bona fide run.

We have seen this movie before with Mitch. Will he survive the rest of the season and the early playoffs?

You've got to have an extraordinary faith in KAT navigating the basketball court to trade Mitch while simultaneously believing Mitch is not a player made of glass.

Not an easy problem.

I want to think we can make it to the finals as we are.
Im not into the blame thing and thinking KAT leaving is an imporovement unless I can evaluate what comes back in return.
I love OG, but Milwaukee should make the play for him with Duece and say Yabu to make salary work. Thats a 3 for 1 concept. Not likely.
Pair Giannis with KAT. Bucks don't want Kat, do they??
Not gonna be upset if knicks moslty stand pat.

The possibility the Knicks will ever win a championship with KAT as their center are slim to none.

The modern NBA favors a mix of speed and outside shooting with at least several high caliber two-way players in the guard and wing positions and interior defense from your bigs.

Most championship teams have a lower reliance on scoring from the C position and often build their rim defense by committee of multiple Centers and forwards.

Pretty much every first and second string Center in the NBA today is a better defender than KAT.

Contenders at some point figure out a team defense that works for them and with KAT that will not happen. Sorry, but if you think KAT will ever figure it out, that's a fantasy. The guy is simply incapable of providing consistently reliable defense or doing it within a team defense.

KAT's scoring abilities gloss over all of his many weaknesses, including how much his offensive game operates outside of a well-oiled offensive system and functions largely as his own ISO game within the team's general offensive strategy.

Whereas Brunson is a gunner, he is also a guard and he can calibrate his game to emphasize offensive flow with his teammates as needed. KAT is pretty much a brute force player who happens to have a good shooting touch, but who lacks the grace and athleticism of other brutes. He's like watching a Clydesdale horse that can shoot.

This is where coaching can help by emphasizing less of KAT's tendencies to chuck or pump-fake then barrel into the lane and get all tangled up in defenders while trying to score like a wounded octopus. There should be more PnR action with KAT to minimize his ball handling and to accentuate his shooting touch in stride.

But mostly our offense as it currently manifests functions either to facilitate KAT or to let Brunson cook. The points provided by KAT do not make up for his lousy defense and his rebounding can be replaced by other bigs. Nothing he does outside of scoring is special and he lacks the most important skill championship teams need from their primary center which is rim protection. Mitch is not the answer for this as he's minutes restricted for probably the rest of his career even if he remains a Knick.

Since the Knicks probably will not win a chip with KAT as their center without more rim protection in the rotation they have two choices:

Trade KAT now or this Summer and get back a Center that can defend and let the rest of the players carry the offense
or
Build front-line depth so there is always rim protection on the floor alongside KAT

We need to let Kat get comfortable in this system. We have Robinson who is one of the best defensive players in the nba backing him up… when teams pick on Kat we put in Robinson. Kat is still arguably the best center in the league minus fat boy slim.

So again there is no need to trade towns unless we are absolutely blown away with the offer … or for the Greek. You would need to be able to replace what towns can do but with someone who is better … we can not afford to loose this trade if we trade him … this is our year to the chip

fitzfarm wrote:The nuggets won a chip with fat boy slim who I’m pretty sure plays next to zero defense…

We need to let Kat get comfortable in this system. We have Robinson who is one of the best defensive players in the nba backing him up… when teams pick on Kat we put in Robinson. Kat is still arguably the best center in the league minus fat boy slim.

So again there is no need to trade towns unless we are absolutely blown away with the offer … or for the Greek. You would need to be able to replace what towns can do but with someone who is better … we can not afford to loose this trade if we trade him … this is our year to the chip

+1. The reason why fat boy slim is better is because the system is tailored to him and because he doesn't whine to the refs and fall down like it's 1999 again

ramtour420 wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:The nuggets won a chip with fat boy slim who I’m pretty sure plays next to zero defense…

We need to let Kat get comfortable in this system. We have Robinson who is one of the best defensive players in the nba backing him up… when teams pick on Kat we put in Robinson. Kat is still arguably the best center in the league minus fat boy slim.

So again there is no need to trade towns unless we are absolutely blown away with the offer … or for the Greek. You would need to be able to replace what towns can do but with someone who is better … we can not afford to loose this trade if we trade him … this is our year to the chip

+1. The reason why fat boy slim is better is because the system is tailored to him and because he doesn't whine to the refs and fall down like it's 1999 again

Also I’d rather us go through this struggle now and work out the kinks… we need to be playing our best for the playoffs ..

If we fail then in the offseason you look to blow it up with a towns trade . Obviously this is Brunsons team, but you could argue that towns is by far the most talented player on this team. 7 footers with his range and ability to dominate don’t grow on trees. If we can get him right and playing his best basketball by playoff time we should be chip bound.

I don’t think the bucks are in any rush to move the Greek till the offseason… they are on pace to get the top pick in the draft … and if they are moving on from the Greek and the nba knows it, I wouldn’t be shocked if they end up with pick number one … they need to fill seats in Milwaukee Giannis is the only thing that’s doing that now.

BlueKnickers wrote:

Nalod wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Shit like this dumbs us down.....

https://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-k...

Says how important he is but if we trade him it solves the "Lose him for nothing" but does not solve who takes his place and his production.
The choice is not hard if there is a belief this team can make a bona fide run. While that is not a popular thought the last two weeks, it need be addressed.

Define bona fide run.

We have seen this movie before with Mitch. Will he survive the rest of the season and the early playoffs?

You've got to have an extraordinary faith in KAT navigating the basketball court to trade Mitch while simultaneously believing Mitch is not a player made of glass.

Not an easy problem.

I want to think we can make it to the finals as we are.
Im not into the blame thing and thinking KAT leaving is an imporovement unless I can evaluate what comes back in return.
I love OG, but Milwaukee should make the play for him with Duece and say Yabu to make salary work. Thats a 3 for 1 concept. Not likely.
Pair Giannis with KAT. Bucks don't want Kat, do they??
Not gonna be upset if knicks moslty stand pat.

The possibility the Knicks will ever win a championship with KAT as their center are slim to none.

The modern NBA favors a mix of speed and outside shooting with at least several high caliber two-way players in the guard and wing positions and interior defense from your bigs.

Most championship teams have a lower reliance on scoring from the C position and often build their rim defense by committee of multiple Centers and forwards.

Pretty much every first and second string Center in the NBA today is a better defender than KAT.

Contenders at some point figure out a team defense that works for them and with KAT that will not happen. Sorry, but if you think KAT will ever figure it out, that's a fantasy. The guy is simply incapable of providing consistently reliable defense or doing it within a team defense.

KAT's scoring abilities gloss over all of his many weaknesses, including how much his offensive game operates outside of a well-oiled offensive system and functions largely as his own ISO game within the team's general offensive strategy.

Whereas Brunson is a gunner, he is also a guard and he can calibrate his game to emphasize offensive flow with his teammates as needed. KAT is pretty much a brute force player who happens to have a good shooting touch, but who lacks the grace and athleticism of other brutes. He's like watching a Clydesdale horse that can shoot.

This is where coaching can help by emphasizing less of KAT's tendencies to chuck or pump-fake then barrel into the lane and get all tangled up in defenders while trying to score like a wounded octopus. There should be more PnR action with KAT to minimize his ball handling and to accentuate his shooting touch in stride.

But mostly our offense as it currently manifests functions either to facilitate KAT or to let Brunson cook. The points provided by KAT do not make up for his lousy defense and his rebounding can be replaced by other bigs. Nothing he does outside of scoring is special and he lacks the most important skill championship teams need from their primary center which is rim protection. Mitch is not the answer for this as he's minutes restricted for probably the rest of his career even if he remains a Knick.

Since the Knicks probably will not win a chip with KAT as their center without more rim protection in the rotation they have two choices:

Trade KAT now or this Summer and get back a Center that can defend and let the rest of the players carry the offense
or
Build front-line depth so there is always rim protection on the floor alongside KAT

Good analysis

fitzfarm wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:The nuggets won a chip with fat boy slim who I’m pretty sure plays next to zero defense…

We need to let Kat get comfortable in this system.

:
:

If we fail then in the offseason you look to blow it up with a towns trade . Obviously this is Brunsons team, but you could argue that towns is by far the most talented player on this team. 7 footers with his range and ability to dominate don’t grow on trees. If we can get him right and playing his best basketball by playoff time we should be chip bound.

"if we could get Kat comfortable in this system" -spittake-

"If we fail..."

Some of us have been watching this team for generations.
This year represents their most obvious, best chance to finally win a ring.
Anyone looking forward to a rebuild is smoking something powerful.

There is no magic answer and I'm sure everybody is awaiting the Giannis conclusion but what does UP look like next year "if we fail"?

fwk00 wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

Nalod wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Shit like this dumbs us down.....

https://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-k...

Says how important he is but if we trade him it solves the "Lose him for nothing" but does not solve who takes his place and his production.
The choice is not hard if there is a belief this team can make a bona fide run. While that is not a popular thought the last two weeks, it need be addressed.

Define bona fide run.

We have seen this movie before with Mitch. Will he survive the rest of the season and the early playoffs?

You've got to have an extraordinary faith in KAT navigating the basketball court to trade Mitch while simultaneously believing Mitch is not a player made of glass.

Not an easy problem.

I want to think we can make it to the finals as we are.
Im not into the blame thing and thinking KAT leaving is an imporovement unless I can evaluate what comes back in return.
I love OG, but Milwaukee should make the play for him with Duece and say Yabu to make salary work. Thats a 3 for 1 concept. Not likely.
Pair Giannis with KAT. Bucks don't want Kat, do they??
Not gonna be upset if knicks moslty stand pat.

The possibility the Knicks will ever win a championship with KAT as their center are slim to none.

The modern NBA favors a mix of speed and outside shooting with at least several high caliber two-way players in the guard and wing positions and interior defense from your bigs.

Most championship teams have a lower reliance on scoring from the C position and often build their rim defense by committee of multiple Centers and forwards.

Pretty much every first and second string Center in the NBA today is a better defender than KAT.

Contenders at some point figure out a team defense that works for them and with KAT that will not happen. Sorry, but if you think KAT will ever figure it out, that's a fantasy. The guy is simply incapable of providing consistently reliable defense or doing it within a team defense.

KAT's scoring abilities gloss over all of his many weaknesses, including how much his offensive game operates outside of a well-oiled offensive system and functions largely as his own ISO game within the team's general offensive strategy.

Whereas Brunson is a gunner, he is also a guard and he can calibrate his game to emphasize offensive flow with his teammates as needed. KAT is pretty much a brute force player who happens to have a good shooting touch, but who lacks the grace and athleticism of other brutes. He's like watching a Clydesdale horse that can shoot.

This is where coaching can help by emphasizing less of KAT's tendencies to chuck or pump-fake then barrel into the lane and get all tangled up in defenders while trying to score like a wounded octopus. There should be more PnR action with KAT to minimize his ball handling and to accentuate his shooting touch in stride.

But mostly our offense as it currently manifests functions either to facilitate KAT or to let Brunson cook. The points provided by KAT do not make up for his lousy defense and his rebounding can be replaced by other bigs. Nothing he does outside of scoring is special and he lacks the most important skill championship teams need from their primary center which is rim protection. Mitch is not the answer for this as he's minutes restricted for probably the rest of his career even if he remains a Knick.

Since the Knicks probably will not win a chip with KAT as their center without more rim protection in the rotation they have two choices:

Trade KAT now or this Summer and get back a Center that can defend and let the rest of the players carry the offense
or
Build front-line depth so there is always rim protection on the floor alongside KAT

Good analysis

TY

I should add that Gobert masked KAT's deficiencies.

If you can replace Mitch with a full-time defensive presence in the paint, that's pretty much the only template that will work with KAT in terms of contending for a championship.

ramtour420 wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:The nuggets won a chip with fat boy slim who I’m pretty sure plays next to zero defense…

We need to let Kat get comfortable in this system. We have Robinson who is one of the best defensive players in the nba backing him up… when teams pick on Kat we put in Robinson. Kat is still arguably the best center in the league minus fat boy slim.

So again there is no need to trade towns unless we are absolutely blown away with the offer … or for the Greek. You would need to be able to replace what towns can do but with someone who is better … we can not afford to loose this trade if we trade him … this is our year to the chip

+1. The reason why fat boy slim is better is because the system is tailored to him and because he doesn't whine to the refs and fall down like it's 1999 again

There is no reasonable way to compare KAT to Jokic.

Joker is possibly the best player in the NBA and KAT isn't close to his level at all.

Jokic makes everyone around him better on offense, not something you can say about KAT other than claiming his shooting helps with spacing which hasn't always been the case.

In KAT's favor is his best defensive effort as a pro was against Jokic in the playoffs, yet somehow he forgot everything he demonstrated then since.

Saying Jokic plays no defense is also completely false. He's not an elite rim defender, but he often does contribute on a team defense level more than KAT does.

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He needs to drop some weight and become more agile like his 1st few seasons in the league. We need that KAT and not the head down drive into traffic and hope for a call but get an offensive foul KAT. Or this chuck a 3 and pray KAT.

But as already said in this thread, we cannot win with this version of KAT.

We also cannot win with this version of Brickes, I mean Bridges. He needs to go.