This NYK team has been assembled through FA signings and trades by a front office that is built on relationships and financial cap wizardry
VS
The Spurs front office who has primarily tanked for years to optimise roster building through the top end of the draft.
While the Knicks prioritised winning, the Spurs prioritised losing and development. Kind of an oxymoron moron and yet they are the heavy favorites to win the NBA finals this year.
Tanking/losing vs FA/trade - two front office styles diversely opposed on display in the spotlight. Just killing some band width while we wait for the games to begin. Any opinions in here?
This really is the clash of building in opposite ways. The Knicks built through trades and free agency but they did it in a way that was unique. It was dependent on their agency/ relationships built. Summer getting both Brunson and Hartenstein. Both CAA. Hart is CAA but he doesn’t count because he was easily attainable. OG signs on with Sam Rose and he’s traded to the Knicks. KAT is CAA and pushed to the Knicks behind the scenes. These were all specific targets based on their front office. Not easy to replicate.
The spurs on the other hand did the tanking thing but this required a generational amount of luck. They landed the #1 pick in the most important year to get the number 1 pick since 2003. Then moved up to #2 in the draft 2 years later. In between they took Castle who was a good find sandwiched between 2 luck years. It’s was a 3 year stretch that can’t be written better, and no tanking team can repeat that. So while both teams were built with the 2 most common team-building strategies, if you peel back the layers, these were highly unique and improbable team building examples.
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OKC also did a hybrid and tanked a bit. Great construciton via free agency, trades and Draft. Very balanced.
Spurs under Pop tanked and developed. Not all worked. The Sochan experiment failed.
OKC traded FOR Paul George. Olidipo and Sambonis as the core players. Dipo unfortunately had leg issues and never really fulilled his potential. For OKC to not bet burned they paid PG13 with a promise to trade him. They did in the epic move that yielded SGA and a mess of picks!
That was 2019. The chip came in 2025. Presti built a juggernaut. I'd think if Giannis wanted to he could get his way to OKC for Chet and others.
Presti got his chip and can keep making deals for years if he wants. Keeping them contending. They like Spurs the only pro team in town. They have a new arena coming on and still a bright future.
Perry got the party started drafting Mitch and RJ and signing Randle but Rose’s moves have been nothing short of brilliant last few years. Acquire assets and then turn them into superstars.
I follow the LA Rams motto of, "f3ck them picks"
I don't knock teams, like the Spurs, who build through the draft, but it's such a crap shoot. You just never know why type of player you are going to get. Although it was A LOT, I wasn't as upset as most when the Knicks made the Bridges trade. A proven player versus an unknown commodity? Give me the proven player.
Not a fan of tanking teams but Spurs do seem to have a top notch scouting division. Sochan may not have worked out for them, but I personally feel he is still a solid rotational/fringe starter type player.
Swishfm3 wrote:I follow the LA Rams motto of, "f3ck them picks"I don't knock teams, like the Spurs, who build through the draft, but it's such a crap shoot. You just never know why type of player you are going to get. Although it was A LOT, I wasn't as upset as most when the Knicks made the Bridges trade. A proven player versus an unknown commodity? Give me the proven player.
Not a fan of tanking teams but Spurs do seem to have a top notch scouting division. Sochan may not have worked out for them, but I personally feel he is still a solid rotational/fringe starter type player.
Sochan is an intersting addition given he has not in the rotation......
He was bought out and is an UFA after this season. He just turned 23 two weeks ago!
He started 149 games in his first two and a half seasons with SAS and kind of deemed a disappointment?
I have no clue if he or Diawara are vying for the same role or we have a reclamation path for him at PF off the bench?
For all we know OG is the major piece for Giannis where Diawara is also part of a trade? Likely not but we are not in the know.
Rookie wrote:This NYK team has been assembled through FA signings and trades by a front office that is built on relationships and financial cap wizardryVS
The Spurs front office who has primarily tanked for years to optimise roster building through the top end of the draft.
While the Knicks prioritised winning, the Spurs prioritised losing and development. Kind of an oxymoron moron and yet they are the heavy favorites to win the NBA finals this year.
Tanking/losing vs FA/trade - two front office styles diversely opposed on display in the spotlight. Just killing some band width while we wait for the games to begin. Any opinions in here?
I would say Knicks more so are forged piece by piece identifying elite complementary pieces that fit together. While Spurs more so have simply collected talent.
Based off what you would like to see from your 3rd & 4th options in terms of being able to be productive 2-way players without being featured or needing the ball in their hands to be effective. OG & Mikal are possibly the elite of the elite. Having an OG or Mikal operating as a 4th option, which they rotate any given game or quarter even. Extremely hard to find higher level 4th options in terms of 2-way, 3 level shooting, length, production with mid usage.
Brunson - One of the best 4th quarter closers in the NBA over the last couple of seasons
KAT - The greatest 3pt shooting Center off all time(but now also offering a close to complete all around game), Also one of the best defensive rebounding bigs in the NBA.
OG - Arguably the best defensive wing/forward in the NBA.
Hart - One of the best rebounding wings in the NBA.
Mitch - One of the best offensive rebounding bigs in the NBA.
newyorknewyork wrote:Brunson - One of the best 4th quarter closers in the NBA over the last couple of seasons
KAT - The greatest 3pt shooting Center off all time(but now also offering a close to complete all around game), Also one of the best defensive rebounding bigs in the NBA.
OG - Arguably the best defensive wing/forward in the NBA.
Hart - One of the best rebounding wings in the NBA.
Mitch - One of the best offensive rebounding bigs in the NBA.
Having players who are literally the best at certain things is the ultimate cheat code.
Nalod wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:I follow the LA Rams motto of, "f3ck them picks"I don't knock teams, like the Spurs, who build through the draft, but it's such a crap shoot. You just never know why type of player you are going to get. Although it was A LOT, I wasn't as upset as most when the Knicks made the Bridges trade. A proven player versus an unknown commodity? Give me the proven player.
Not a fan of tanking teams but Spurs do seem to have a top notch scouting division. Sochan may not have worked out for them, but I personally feel he is still a solid rotational/fringe starter type player.
Sochan is an intersting addition given he has not in the rotation......
He was bought out and is an UFA after this season. He just turned 23 two weeks ago!
He started 149 games in his first two and a half seasons with SAS and kind of deemed a disappointment?
I have no clue if he or Diawara are vying for the same role or we have a reclamation path for him at PF off the bench?
For all we know OG is the major piece for Giannis where Diawara is also part of a trade? Likely not but we are not in the know.
Sochan is interesting as a 5. He’s one of the worst offensive players in the league so he’s really not a rotation player. But his archetype is exactly what you keep on standby to guard a stretch 5 like Wemby in short spurts.
Knixkik wrote:Nalod wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:I follow the LA Rams motto of, "f3ck them picks"I don't knock teams, like the Spurs, who build through the draft, but it's such a crap shoot. You just never know why type of player you are going to get. Although it was A LOT, I wasn't as upset as most when the Knicks made the Bridges trade. A proven player versus an unknown commodity? Give me the proven player.
Not a fan of tanking teams but Spurs do seem to have a top notch scouting division. Sochan may not have worked out for them, but I personally feel he is still a solid rotational/fringe starter type player.
Sochan is an intersting addition given he has not in the rotation......
He was bought out and is an UFA after this season. He just turned 23 two weeks ago!
He started 149 games in his first two and a half seasons with SAS and kind of deemed a disappointment?
I have no clue if he or Diawara are vying for the same role or we have a reclamation path for him at PF off the bench?
For all we know OG is the major piece for Giannis where Diawara is also part of a trade? Likely not but we are not in the know.
Sochan is interesting as a 5. He’s one of the worst offensive players in the league so he’s really not a rotation player. But his archetype is exactly what you keep on standby to guard a stretch 5 like Wemby in short spurts.
Whats crazy is he was being groomed by Pop as a PG for over two years! Pop is a bonafide top GOAT coach and lets not forget Mike is part of the tree (Has a ring as assistant, once upon a time was one of those really young bright guys fans want!) Im not a Sochan expert but somewhere this is an iinteresting story line.
Nalod wrote:Knixkik wrote:Nalod wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:I follow the LA Rams motto of, "f3ck them picks"I don't knock teams, like the Spurs, who build through the draft, but it's such a crap shoot. You just never know why type of player you are going to get. Although it was A LOT, I wasn't as upset as most when the Knicks made the Bridges trade. A proven player versus an unknown commodity? Give me the proven player.
Not a fan of tanking teams but Spurs do seem to have a top notch scouting division. Sochan may not have worked out for them, but I personally feel he is still a solid rotational/fringe starter type player.
Sochan is an intersting addition given he has not in the rotation......
He was bought out and is an UFA after this season. He just turned 23 two weeks ago!
He started 149 games in his first two and a half seasons with SAS and kind of deemed a disappointment?
I have no clue if he or Diawara are vying for the same role or we have a reclamation path for him at PF off the bench?
For all we know OG is the major piece for Giannis where Diawara is also part of a trade? Likely not but we are not in the know.
Sochan is interesting as a 5. He’s one of the worst offensive players in the league so he’s really not a rotation player. But his archetype is exactly what you keep on standby to guard a stretch 5 like Wemby in short spurts.
Whats crazy is he was being groomed by Pop as a PG for over two years! Pop is a bonafide top GOAT coach and lets not forget Mike is part of the tree (Has a ring as assistant, once upon a time was one of those really young bright guys fans want!) Im not a Sochan expert but somewhere this is an iinteresting story line.
It might be even more interesting in the context of playing his former team in the Finals. I don't expect him to go all ape shit , I don't even expect him to play( yeah I don't believe there will be blowouts this series.) This thing is going to 7 games. Just a peculiar narrative,that's all. Unless Brown makes it into something more
Sometimes you can get one of the best closers in history via free agency.
Nalod wrote:Knixkik wrote:Nalod wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:I follow the LA Rams motto of, "f3ck them picks"I don't knock teams, like the Spurs, who build through the draft, but it's such a crap shoot. You just never know why type of player you are going to get. Although it was A LOT, I wasn't as upset as most when the Knicks made the Bridges trade. A proven player versus an unknown commodity? Give me the proven player.
Not a fan of tanking teams but Spurs do seem to have a top notch scouting division. Sochan may not have worked out for them, but I personally feel he is still a solid rotational/fringe starter type player.
Sochan is an intersting addition given he has not in the rotation......
He was bought out and is an UFA after this season. He just turned 23 two weeks ago!
He started 149 games in his first two and a half seasons with SAS and kind of deemed a disappointment?
I have no clue if he or Diawara are vying for the same role or we have a reclamation path for him at PF off the bench?
For all we know OG is the major piece for Giannis where Diawara is also part of a trade? Likely not but we are not in the know.
Sochan is interesting as a 5. He’s one of the worst offensive players in the league so he’s really not a rotation player. But his archetype is exactly what you keep on standby to guard a stretch 5 like Wemby in short spurts.
Whats crazy is he was being groomed by Pop as a PG for over two years! Pop is a bonafide top GOAT coach and lets not forget Mike is part of the tree (Has a ring as assistant, once upon a time was one of those really young bright guys fans want!) Im not a Sochan expert but somewhere this is an iinteresting story line.
yup! I remember watching a couple of Spurs game during his time there as a PG and he wasn't bad. Good handles and I recall being impressed with his on ball defense. I'm surprised that Brown didn't integrate him into the rotation.
I also remember hoping he would fall to the Knicks in the 2022 draft. When Spurs snatched him up, I felt Duren was the pick to make.
Just took a quick peek at that draft class...Didn't realize Jalen Williams was drafted right after the Knicks pick.
The pick went to incentivze Detroit to take Kemba? Right?
Sochan was a failed experiment but not one without some merit. Releasing him did him a favor as they were not going to play him nor resign him. I suppose his trade value given his pending free agency was not very good and perhaps there is more to the story. There always is?
He was given a window and he did have a bit of an injury which also might have factored in this not being part of rotation. Knicks wings really did not have much injury issues in his tenure either.
He is here for a reason besides karma and maybe one of Leons next great find next season? There is a lot of things to speculate on that would make that happen but for now, lets enjoy the remaining games!!
listen however you do it you need some luck, and Brunson turning into a top 5 player was our luck. because without that its very difficult. Like you can legit make a case that Brunson is more valuable than Luka now, and that's not something even Rick himself would have probably envisioned.
I always remember watching Brunson at Nova, he was a winner, was confused as to why he went #33, but then I don't know college ball very well so I figured "they knew better". never could have imagined him becoming our franchise savior.
martin wrote:Sometimes you can get one of the best closers in history via free agency.
I know he was a free agent, but it feels like we drafted Brunson. It’s like we got him before he truly broke out into a household name, so the Knicks get credit for developing him. Regardless, a scenario none of us saw coming.
The idea that you had to build a team a certain way was always kinda dumb. You simply need to acquire an A level player and build the team around said player, it doesn't matter at all how you get that player. Now I will say, the Knicks have just been a superb salary cap team to fit this much talent under the second apron. When you are acquiring guys in their prime the salary cap game becomes utmost importance because you do not get the benefit of getting these guys on their 1st or 2nd contracts. You see teams all over the league with two max level guys struggle to fit the supporting cast. That is where Brunson's paycut was absolutely huge, and anyone who undersold that sacrifice from him deserves a big kick in the A. If he takes the supermax you are effectively losing one of your starters, and if you lose one of your starters this team is not good enough. In this day and age you have champion level teams get dismantled left and right due to constraints in keeping their top 5-6 guys together. Thunder will be the next one. Nuggets are a good example. If Brunson wanted his max, and KAT had his max, you would most likely be trading away one of your wings, and we need all 3 of them.
nycericanguy wrote:listen however you do it you need some luck, and Brunson turning into a top 5 player was our luck. because without that its very difficult. Like you can legit make a case that Brunson is more valuable than Luka now, and that's not something even Rick himself would have probably envisioned.I always remember watching Brunson at Nova, he was a winner, was confused as to why he went #33, but then I don't know college ball very well so I figured "they knew better". never could have imagined him becoming our franchise savior.
I view the Brunson signing akin to Harden in Houston and Kawhi in Toronto, although Kawhi ended up a 1 year pitstop. Brunson definitely went on to exceed everyone's expectations, but there is precedent to signing guys on the cusp of greatness and building a contender. Houston wins championships if they didn't run into the Curry/KD Warriors. Knicks don't win championships if they run into a team like that. That is part of the luck as well.
Brunson has not only exceeded expectations, he has exceeded everyone
