stop trolling this thread... yes, we know u hate the Yankees & are extremely bitter towards Yankee fans, we get it.
I don't know anything about Pelfrey but from what happened this year, I'd say that it's a bit unrealistic to gaurantee *anything* (be it good or bad) about Hughes in the future.
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by TMS:
1 bad season? he's had 2 good seasons in 6 years... u wanna tell me he's still a prospect at this point?
counting 65IP and 28IP years when he was still a starter? i guess phil hughes has already had 2 bad seasons as well.
[Edited by - jaydh on 10-13-2008 11:34 AM]
i guess the fact that your team plays in an obviously inferior hitting league where ur pitchers don't have to face the lineups they'd have to face in the AL has absolutely no bearing in this argument either in your eyes?... at 22 & 23 yo Mike Pelfrey was pitching to a +5 ERA in a weaker hitting NL... it's not til this past season where he actually showed anything at all in terms of being a viable ML starting pitcher (& make no mistake about it put him in the AL East & his ERA will go up by a significant margin)... how good Hughes turns out to be is anybody's guess... i've always had my doubts as to whether or not he'd fulfill his ace hype but that doesn't discount the fact that he was 1 of baseball's highest rated pitching prospects not too long ago & he wouldn't be the first young ML pitching prospect to start out his career shaky but end up to be the goods.
The other option at first for the Yanks might be Juan Miranda- he's probably ready for the majors at this point and its time to see whether he can play or is a AAAA guy.
as much as i'd like to give our kids a chance, we can't go into the new season at the new stadium w/a roster of ARod, Jeter, Cano, Nady, an aging Damon, 2 key vets recovering from major surgery in Matsui & Posada & a couple minor league role players expect to win games... if we don't have an unbelievably good starting rotation & bullpen we absolutely have to bring in some more proven offense to replace Giambi & Abreu.
Posted by TMS:
as much as i'd like to give our kids a chance, we can't go into the new season at the new stadium w/a roster of ARod, Jeter, Cano, Nady, an aging Damon, 2 key vets recovering from major surgery in Matsui & Posada & a couple minor league role players expect to win games... if we don't have an unbelievably good starting rotation & bullpen we absolutely have to bring in some more proven offense to replace Giambi & Abreu.
agree 100%. We're talking about a team that was 7th out of 14 in runs scored last year in the AL and now we're talking about subtracting about 200 RBIs with Giambi and Abreu leaving.
I am a firm believer that you don't build a team through signing multiple high priced FA. Firm believer. I don't mind having a down year or two, every good team has to have them, even the Yankees.
u gotta mix in smart FA signings along w/smart trades to build a champion... u can't just build a team through ur farm system only just like u can't do it w/signing up every high priced FA every year either... i agree w/u in principle, i wouldn't throw Mark Tex ARod level dollars to come here... if we can't get him at a reasonable rate i'd rather target high priced pitching like CC & AJB & then make some smart trades & signings to fill some holes in the roster.
tell me ur thoughts on these:
Ian Kennedy, Brian Bruney & Melky Cabrera for Marlon Byrd & Jarrod Saltalamacchia
Byrd batted .298 for TEX this season w/10 hr's, 53 RBI & a respectable .843 OPS in 403 ABs... at 31 yo he's still got some mileage left in the tank... would be a perfect righty hitting platoon guy to play w/Brett Gardner in CF next season & a probably a more reasonable option than an aging Ken Griffey Jr.
Saltalamacchia at 6'4" tall, you can try him at 1B next year part-time off the bench & have as an insurance policy at C in case Jorge gets hurt again... TEX has a young up & coming stud at the C position in Teagarten along w/a solid veteran in Laird, & Salty has yet to break out as they had hoped in 3 seasons, but still has a good amount of talent & potential & is still young at 23 & a switch hitter... he would probably be expendable for them... this trade won't make us world conquerors but it will add some depth to our team & give us a young C to groom to take over for Jorge in a couple years... in the meantime Salty can be a backup 1B/third C option until next season when Molina becomes a FA & the backup C job opens up.
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or how about this if we can't sign Mark T in the offseason:
Ian Kennedy, Alan Horne, Juan Miranda & Melky Cabrera for Adam LaRoche
- LaRoche's OPS totals aren't mindblowing for a 1B but he does give u some pop from the left side & he's signed to a reasonable contract for Yankees standards, but at $5 mil per the Pirates may be amenable to taking some prospects for him in a trade... his offensive numbers would probably improve in our lefty friendly stadium & at 28 yo he's in the prime of his career.
I think you are severely underrating what Kennedy can get you. And Bruney has value too.
Kenney's value took a huge hit this season though... Salty's value is nowhere near where it was 2 years ago either but at 1 time he was 1 of baseball's most highly touted C prospects... both of them are about the same age, i think it's a pretty fair swap to be honest... Bruney had a very good season for us & he's still young at 26 but he only saw limited action last season & Byrd put up some very respectable numbers for a part time player, plus he plays a position of need for us also while we do have some depth in the bullpen... i don't think this is all that bad a value to be honest... we can't expect to snag any studs in any trades unless we throw in Joba or Cano in the deal at this point, sorry to say.
TMS, I don't mind either one of those trades, although I think we'd have to give up more for Salty. As much as Salty's value has dropped since he was deal for Teixeira, the Rangers gave up a big time player to get Salty and I think they are going to require a bit more than what you're offering. As a player, I like Salty, I don't know what his deal is right now, he's got a great bat, but hasn't come close to showing it yet with the Rangers. I mean this guy was giving Brian McCann a run for his money at catcher with the Braves before they dealt him, so it tells you what kind of player he can be. I think he's a fantastic guy to target, just worried about the asking price.
About Adam LaRoche...
I like Adam LaRoche, I think he would make a good fallback option at 1st, but I don't know if he's a guy I would target as the the top guy of our list. The first reason I think that way is because I think the Pirates are going to severely overate him in trade talks and they would probably ask for more than what you're giving-up in that trade your proposed. The Pirates are a team hungry for a rebuild and I think any trade with them is going to be tough. Which leads me to my next point.. although I just said I think any trade with the Pirates will be tough, if we make any trade with them, I want Nate Mclouth back. Mclouth had a fantastic start to this season and kind of tailed off in the second half, but I think you can partially attribute that to the fact he was playing with a dreadful team. Mclouth is a solid left-handed hitting CFer, who would fit perfectly with the short porch in RF. He's also one heck of a CFer, an absolute ballhawk, has a great arm (had 5 assists this year) and only 1 error and he's only 26. I'm not sure what we'd have to give up and I know the Pirates GM recently said he wouldn't trade him, I think there should atleast be a line of communication to get him. We'll see.
Either way though, both trades are pretty solid, I'd consider doing both, but I'm not sure about the players involved from our end.
i thought about McClouth but i figured it would take a package w/Joba included to get him which i would not be in favor of... his OPS #s are the same as LaRoche's but he plays a premium position... LaRoche's #'s at 1B are pretty mediocre if u really think about it... i dunno if they could expect much more than what i'd offer in that package, but i do agree PIT's GM will probably ask for more... still, like i mentioned before LaRoche is making $5 mil per while McClouth is signed to rookie level dollars, so the prospect of getting either in a trade weighs heavily in LaRoche's favor from a Yankees' standpoint... IMO LaRoche is imminently more attainable.
as for Salty, like i said he was once highly touted but facts are facts, he hasn't done anything to distinguish himself at this level yet & they have another young stud C waiting in the wings right now... Salty is an expendable commodity for them... Ian Kennedy before this past season was also a top rated pitching prospect in our system & he's still only 23 as well... Bruney will also add some nice depth to their bullpen... everyone knows TEX needs pitching at this point... & Melky's not a star by any stretch but he can fill in to back up Josh Hamilton in CF & play some corner OF for their team as well... i think it's a deal that works for both parties personally.
For no reason, while I was reading your reply, I was thinking about the prospects of Ian Kennedy pitching in Texas. Kennedy is the kind of pitcher Texas should definitely stay away from. Kennedy is a finesse pitcher who picks and hits the corners and that kind of repertoire in the dry Texas heat would be home run derby on any night that Kennedy is just a LITTLE off.
*this really has nothing to do with your trade or anything, just something that randomly popped into my head and more geared towards what I think Texas should be targeting in their quest to turn things around*TMS, give me some time, I'm a little heated right now at the pathetic peformance the Giants laid up tonight, but I'll come back with a few guys I think the Yankees should target. I promise I'll leave Beltran off the list
Posted by nyk4ever:
For no reason, while I was reading your reply, I was thinking about the prospects of Ian Kennedy pitching in Texas. Kennedy is the kind of pitcher Texas should definitely stay away from. Kennedy is a finesse pitcher who picks and hits the corners and that kind of repertoire in the dry Texas heat would be home run derby on any night that Kennedy is just a LITTLE off.
*this really has nothing to do with your trade or anything, just something that randomly popped into my head and more geared towards what I think Texas should be targeting in their quest to turn things around*
TMS, give me some time, I'm a little heated right now at the pathetic peformance the Giants laid up tonight, but I'll come back with a few guys I think the Yankees should target. I promise I'll leave Beltran off the list
if u look at the pitching staff TEX currently has, other than Vinny Padilla there's no one there w/a reliable arm... Kevin Millwood's pretty much cooked & i think Ian Kennedy would have as good a chance as any of their other guys of sticking for the longterm... Salty on the other hand really has no role on their team anymore... they're pretty much set at 1B & at the C position, & u don't pass up the chance to land a pretty talented young pitching prospect just so u can hold onto your future DH.
looking forward to reading some of your options tho... i'm pretty freakin' pissed about this loss too... the G-men just got their asses handed to them by a 1-3 team.
Just throwing Miranda's name out there. He's raking in the Arizona Fall League and we gave him a pretty big contract a couple years ago. Its not out of the question that he contends for the 1b job and they bring someone like Millar to platoon with him (if they don't meet Teixiera's money demands).
if we land some stud arms for the rotation & replace Abreu's offense then i'd be willing to go w/an alternate 1B option like Casey Blake w/someone like Miranda backing him up off the bench... we also have Jesus Montero in the minors who was the most highly touted international prospect when we signed him being groomed as a C right now but most people say he'll end up as a 1B.
i don't care what anybody says... Man Ram is the most dangerous hitter in all of baseball, it's not even close.
Oh he has definitely been consistently the best hitter on baseball over the last 15 years.
what is he like 7 for 8 w/RISP this postseason? ridiculous.
If he can manage to play 5 more seasons (big if) he'll probably break the all time record for RBI. A longstanding Hank Aaron record that no one really brings up....
there's no doubt in my mind his body will hold up... just don't know if his desire to play will last that long... Manny doesn't seem like a guy who could give 2 craps about breaking records to me... everyone pretty much knows how great of a hitter he is & he's already got his rings w/BOS... not much else for him to prove at this point... still i keep coming back to him as our best option to replace Abreu next season as much of a risk it might be, cuz there isn't another bat that's in his league.
