Off Topic · Yankees Talk thread (page 102)

there's no doubt in my mind his body will hold up... just don't know if his desire to play will last that long... Manny doesn't seem like a guy who could give 2 craps about breaking records to me... everyone pretty much knows how great of a hitter he is & he's already got his rings w/BOS... not much else for him to prove at this point... still i keep coming back to him as our best option to replace Abreu next season as much of a risk it might be, cuz there isn't another bat that's in his league.

Posted by TMS:

there's no doubt in my mind his body will hold up... just don't know if his desire to play will last that long... Manny doesn't seem like a guy who could give 2 craps about breaking records to me... everyone pretty much knows how great of a hitter he is & he's already got his rings w/BOS... not much else for him to prove at this point... still i keep coming back to him as our best option to replace Abreu next season as much of a risk it might be, cuz there isn't another bat that's in his league.

I would bring him in with open arms. I'd love to get someone with some range in center if we did manage to snare him, but he is a cornerstone bat that completely triggers a lineup- he did that to some amazing degree with the Dodgers.

Posted by nyk4ever:

I am a firm believer that you don't build a team through signing multiple high priced FA. Firm believer. I don't mind having a down year or two, every good team has to have them, even the Yankees.

I'm a firm believer that you don't rule out any options when rebuilding and need a good balance of FA signings, trades, and players from your farm system.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by nyk4ever:

I am a firm believer that you don't build a team through signing multiple high priced FA. Firm believer. I don't mind having a down year or two, every good team has to have them, even the Yankees.

I'm a firm believer that you don't rule out any options when rebuilding and need a good balance of FA signings, trades, and players from your farm system.

As my post stated I don't believe signing *multiple high priced FA* is the way to go. If you think that's the way to go, go ahead, but you don't win that way.

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by nyk4ever:

I am a firm believer that you don't build a team through signing multiple high priced FA. Firm believer. I don't mind having a down year or two, every good team has to have them, even the Yankees.

I'm a firm believer that you don't rule out any options when rebuilding and need a good balance of FA signings, trades, and players from your farm system.

As my post stated I don't believe signing *multiple high priced FA* is the way to go. If you think that's the way to go, go ahead, but you don't win that way.

I'd be willing to have multiple good FAs, multiple trades, and multiple players developing in the farm system. I'd be as flexible as possible.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 10-14-2008 11:43 AM]

Alright TMS, some of the guys I am interested in…

I’ve mentioned a bunch of times how much I want Chad Billingsley. There’s now rumors that he and Russell Martin might not have a very good relationship as Billingsley has openly questioned Martin’s pitch selection after getting bombarded a few days ago against the Phillies. I’d easily trade Cano for Chad and I think Torre/Bowa would love to get their hands back on Cano.

If I were Cashman, I’d call up the Rockies and gauge interest in a few players Garrett Atkins, Ian Stewart, and Jeff Francis. Stewart is the Rockies top prospect and we probably can’t get him, but I’d atleast see what the market is. If we were able to attain either one of these guys, I think they’d both make fine 1B options. Getting Ian Stewart would require us to trade Hughes (and someone else), but I think he’s the real deal. He’s a hell of a hitter and a potential gold glover. Atkins himself is a good hitter, but he’s 28 and I think a package of Miranda, Melky, take your pick of another player should get it done. The only holdup here is that the Rockies might think they are built to win now. I’m not so sure about that though. By the way, they also have an awesome young catcher in Chris Ianetta, I don’t think they’d trade him though, but I'd be willing to deal Hughes straight up for him. Francis is a quality young lefty who had a bad year and I think really needs to get out of Colorado, you just can’t be a successful pitcher there. I think because of Francis down year, his trade value is also down, but he’s only 27 and I think this guy would be a more than solid pitcher in Yankee Stadium. If you want to get real crazy Francis/Atkins for Kennedy, Miranda, Horne. Again, I don’t know if the Rockies think they are in win now or not.

Rick Ankiel. Would love to pick him up and put him CF and he'd make a great holdover until better options become available in a few years. The Cardinals have a wealth of OFers and they also have one of the games top prospects waiting to be called up and I think he’ll make the team out of spring training next year(Colby Rasmus) This all makes Ankiel expendable. Ankiel is still getting used to being an everyday player, but he had a nice year this year (25hr, 71rbi) and he plays a great CF and obviously has a great arm, he hits lefty also which makes him excellent at Yankee Stadium. I think a combination of minor league pitchers and melky cabrera should get the job done on this trade.

Chris Young. I think Young is a younger version of Mussina and I would gauge the Padres interest in him, their asking price might be a bit too high. I don’t even know what his value is, but I think he’s very attainable and I would be curious to see what the price is.

Off the top of my head, these are some of the guys I’m interested in. This is in addition to Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Mclouth and anyone else I’ve mentioned the past few days. I feel moves such as these with SMART FA signings will allow the Yankees to get back to being about a TEAM and not a bunch of highpriced guys who don’t fit in well together, such as the current Yankee team.

And for the record.. Manny Ramirez is certainly a high priced FA that I would welcome no matter what we pay him, we need guys who are situational hitters and obviously Manny is one of the best run producers of all time.

Posted by VDesai:

Posted by TMS:

there's no doubt in my mind his body will hold up... just don't know if his desire to play will last that long... Manny doesn't seem like a guy who could give 2 craps about breaking records to me... everyone pretty much knows how great of a hitter he is & he's already got his rings w/BOS... not much else for him to prove at this point... still i keep coming back to him as our best option to replace Abreu next season as much of a risk it might be, cuz there isn't another bat that's in his league.

I would bring him in with open arms. I'd love to get someone with some range in center if we did manage to snare him, but he is a cornerstone bat that completely triggers a lineup- he did that to some amazing degree with the Dodgers.

i think w/a guy like Manny in RF u could afford to have a weak hitting CFer w/range like Gardner... maybe platoon him w/a guy u obtain via trade or free agency (if not Byrd or Junior than someone else w/a decent bat)... then u can play Damon in LF, DH Matsui & maybe try Nady at 1B... imagine having Man Ram's bat as our #3 hitter in the lineup w/ARod backing him up? or vice versa? Mark Tex is asking for $28 mil per over 7... Man Ram wants $20 mil over 4... who would u guys rather see up at the plate in a big game with everything on the line?... we paid Giambi $23 mil last year & he put up decent #'s but nothing mindblowing & his #'s w/RISP were pathetic... we paid Abreu $16 mil last year & he had a pretty good season but again no one's shaking in their boots while facing him... spend $20 mil & u get the most feared hitter in all of baseball & slot him into the middle of your lineup... makes sense to me.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by VDesai:

Posted by TMS:

there's no doubt in my mind his body will hold up... just don't know if his desire to play will last that long... Manny doesn't seem like a guy who could give 2 craps about breaking records to me... everyone pretty much knows how great of a hitter he is & he's already got his rings w/BOS... not much else for him to prove at this point... still i keep coming back to him as our best option to replace Abreu next season as much of a risk it might be, cuz there isn't another bat that's in his league.

I would bring him in with open arms. I'd love to get someone with some range in center if we did manage to snare him, but he is a cornerstone bat that completely triggers a lineup- he did that to some amazing degree with the Dodgers.

i think w/a guy like Manny in RF u could afford to have a weak hitting CFer w/range like Gardner... maybe platoon him w/a guy u obtain via trade or free agency (if not Byrd or Junior than someone else w/a decent bat)... then u can play Damon in LF, DH Matsui & maybe try Nady at 1B... imagine having Man Ram's bat as our #3 hitter in the lineup w/ARod backing him up? or vice versa? Mark Tex is asking for $28 mil per over 7... Man Ram wants $20 mil over 4... who would u guys rather see up at the plate in a big game with everything on the line?... we paid Giambi $23 mil last year & he put up decent #'s but nothing mindblowing & his #'s w/RISP were pathetic... we paid Abreu $16 mil last year & he had a pretty good season but again no one's shaking in their boots while facing him... spend $20 mil & u get the most feared hitter in all of baseball & slot him into the middle of your lineup... makes sense to me.

You see the kind of stats that David Ortiz put up with Manny batting behind him... ARod already puts up great stats but I think Manny would even help out those, as well as ARod in high pressure situations because he should get better pitches to hit with pitchers not wanting to face Manny.

Posted by nyk4ever:

Alright TMS, some of the guys I am interested in…

I’ve mentioned a bunch of times how much I want Chad Billingsley. There’s now rumors that he and Russell Martin might not have a very good relationship as Billingsley has openly questioned Martin’s pitch selection after getting bombarded a few days ago against the Phillies. I’d easily trade Cano for Chad and I think Torre/Bowa would love to get their hands back on Cano.

If I were Cashman, I’d call up the Rockies and gauge interest in a few players Garrett Atkins, Ian Stewart, and Jeff Francis. Stewart is the Rockies top prospect and we probably can’t get him, but I’d atleast see what the market is. If we were able to attain either one of these guys, I think they’d both make fine 1B options. Getting Ian Stewart would require us to trade Hughes (and someone else), but I think he’s the real deal. He’s a hell of a hitter and a potential gold glover. Atkins himself is a good hitter, but he’s 28 and I think a package of Miranda, Melky, take your pick of another player should get it done. The only holdup here is that the Rockies might think they are built to win now. I’m not so sure about that though. By the way, they also have an awesome young catcher in Chris Ianetta, I don’t think they’d trade him though, but I'd be willing to deal Hughes straight up for him. Francis is a quality young lefty who had a bad year and I think really needs to get out of Colorado, you just can’t be a successful pitcher there. I think because of Francis down year, his trade value is also down, but he’s only 27 and I think this guy would be a more than solid pitcher in Yankee Stadium. If you want to get real crazy Francis/Atkins for Kennedy, Miranda, Horne. Again, I don’t know if the Rockies think they are in win now or not.

Rick Ankiel. Would love to pick him up and put him CF and he'd make a great holdover until better options become available in a few years. The Cardinals have a wealth of OFers and they also have one of the games top prospects waiting to be called up and I think he’ll make the team out of spring training next year(Colby Rasmus) This all makes Ankiel expendable. Ankiel is still getting used to being an everyday player, but he had a nice year this year (25hr, 71rbi) and he plays a great CF and obviously has a great arm, he hits lefty also which makes him excellent at Yankee Stadium. I think a combination of minor league pitchers and melky cabrera should get the job done on this trade.

Chris Young. I think Young is a younger version of Mussina and I would gauge the Padres interest in him, their asking price might be a bit too high. I don’t even know what his value is, but I think he’s very attainable and I would be curious to see what the price is.

Off the top of my head, these are some of the guys I’m interested in. This is in addition to Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Mclouth and anyone else I’ve mentioned the past few days. I feel moves such as these with SMART FA signings will allow the Yankees to get back to being about a TEAM and not a bunch of highpriced guys who don’t fit in well together, such as the current Yankee team.

u already know my thoughts on Billingsley... if we can snag him in a Cano package i do it.

i'd stay away from Garret Atkins tho... he's a .364 hitter at Coors w/an OPS of .903 & .233 hitter away w/a .661 OPS... not a good sign at all... looks to me like he's a classic Coors field inflated hitter & his stats overall aren't all that impressive either... i think u could easily get that type of production by signing a guy like Casey Blake & not have to give up any of our prospects to do it.

Ian Stewart's #'s aren't all that impressive either... given he's a 23 yo kid & has a ton of potential but as it stands he's still an unproven commodity... if u could get him for a package of Ian Kennedy & some other minor league prospects i'd do it (obviously we can't), but for Hughes i'd take a pass personally... i don't give up 1 of our top pitching prospects to get a 1B when there are readily available guys at that position every year that can do the job, unless of course we're talking about a stud like Ryan Howard or Mark Tex obviously.

as for Jeff Francis, he had 2 pretty good seasons before last year considering he plays at Coors, but this past season his #'s were almost identical pitching at Home as they were Away so i'm not sure how much of an effect Coors had on his performance this year... still, like u said he is a lefty & he had respectable #'s against lefty hitters last year... if we could get him on the cheap then i'd be fine trying him out at the bottom of our rotation, but it would be on the condition that we also landed a stud to anchor the rotation like CC as a FA or someone like Peavy, Billingsley or another ace via trade.

Chris Ianetta looked awesome last year & definitely looks like he's on his way to being a stud for their franchise... i would love to have get our hands on him but to get a young 23 yo C who just hit 18 HR's last season in only 300 or so AB's & a close to .900 OPS we'd easily have to give up Joba in the deal... & w/him u don't even have that Coors Field inflation stigma cuz he was actually a better hitter last season on the road... i don't think we have a chance at getting him.

Rick Ankiel is a guy i think would fit in nicely here... he's a scrapper & has tons of talent... i dunno why the Cards would wanna let him go tho, they invested a ton of time & effort trying to develop that guy & he's got the athletic ability to be moved to a variety of positions & have a place on that team in some capacity... he can hit for some power & has a great arm like u said, but i don't think we could get him for Melky & some lower tier minor league pitching prospects... we'd probably have to give up Kennedy & Austin Jackson to get him at least.

Chris Young is 1 of the main guys in the Padres' rotation & is making a low salary... i think the cost in terms of talent being demanded by the Pads in any prospective deals would be prohibitive for us to bother... anyway he's never come close to going over 200 IP in a season yet even tho he had 3 consecutive seasons of starting at least 30 games before last year, so basically he's averaged just over 5 IPS even in his best seasons which is not the type of pitcher we need at this point... we need a horse who will eat up innings & not tax the bullpen... i don't really see any Moose in him at all to be honest... guys like Garland & Perez would probably make more sense for us to pursue if we're looking for a middle of the rotation guy & it wouldn't cost us anything in terms of current prospects either.

TMS, I think you are over-exaggerating the effect of Coors field and the effect that it has on hitters. Coors field was ranked 3rd in the league in Park Factor which compares the rate of stats at home vs. the rate of stats on the road. I don't think you can only look at Atkins stats and claim that it is the Coors Field effect, Derek Lee last year had a .332 difference in OPS between home and away and he's widely regarded as one of the games best hitters.

Just as another example, Minnesota had the 3rd lowest park factor in the majors and Justin Morneau had nearly identical numbers at home and on the road. Some players just hit better at home than they do on the road (and vice versa) and while I agree with you that I'm sure Coors Field play a LITTLE bit of a role in Atkins discrepancy, I don't think it's as exaggerated as you're making it, it's not like it was 10 years ago because of the humidor.

The North County Times reports that the Padres have made Jake Peavy available in trades.

Let the rumors begin....

Trading for Peavy is definitely lower risk than signing CC but you'd have to give up a lot to get CC.

if we can get Peavy w/o including Joba in the package, i would be severely disappointed if they didn't make the move.

just imagine if they got both Peavy & CC... u'd have the sickest rotation in baseball w/Wang & Joba w/those guys.

[Edited by - TMS on 10-14-2008 3:17 PM]

Posted by TMS:

if we can get Peavy w/o including Joba in the package, i would be severely disappointed if they didn't make the move.

just imagine if they got both Peavy & CC... u'd have the sickest rotation in baseball w/Wang & Joba w/those guys.

[Edited by - TMS on 10-14-2008 3:17 PM]

Problem with that rotation is that your 3 top guys either have VERY poor histories in the playoffs (CC, Wang) or have very little experience in the playoffs (Peavy) and from the 2 starts he has had in the playoffs it hasn't been good 12.10era.

we can add a playoff tested veteran like Lowe to round out the bottom of the rotation if Moose decides to retire... history or no history i'll take my chances w/that rotation next season & i think it would cover for any deficiencies in offense during the regular season.

Hey I didn't say I wouldn't take it.. I'm just saying... the one guy I really want is Peavy. I'd trade anything to get him, I think he can be our version of Josh Beckett coming over from the NL.

The bad part about all this talk is that this is why we will never develop guys like Boston did. Boston realized that they were too old so they took a year and they said, we're not going to be that good this year, but we believe we have the right people in place to develop and evaluate our talent, with no expectations for the year. That year produced Youkilis, Lester, Paplebonn as closer, and Dustin Pedrioa. And the team still won 86 games.

The Yankees are never willing to have a year like this and this year coming up should be the year that we do this. We severely need to see what Phil Hughes has to give us, what Ian Kennedy has to give us, Juan Miranda, Austin Jackson, the list goes on. These guys are never going to the get the chance to prove themselves with our organization.

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by TMS:

if we can get Peavy w/o including Joba in the package, i would be severely disappointed if they didn't make the move.

just imagine if they got both Peavy & CC... u'd have the sickest rotation in baseball w/Wang & Joba w/those guys.

[Edited by - TMS on 10-14-2008 3:17 PM]

Problem with that rotation is that your 3 top guys either have VERY poor histories in the playoffs (CC, Wang) or have very little experience in the playoffs (Peavy) and from the 2 starts he has had in the playoffs it hasn't been good 12.10era.

Wang's had two bad starts. That makes a "VERY poor history"? I know those two were really, really bad but that's still not a poor history IMO. Look how bad Becket's looked in his two starts this year. You can't make much of only two starts.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 10-14-2008 7:28 PM]

to be fair both Hughes & Kennedy were given a chance to show something at the beginning of the season & they both looked like they weren't ready for the big stage... it's still too early to tell what they can give us but the Red Sox have been fortunate that kids like Ellsbury, Pedroia, Youkilis, Papelbon & Lester have been able to come in & contribute right away... Clay Buchholz got a chance & didn't do the job so they sent him back down just like the Yanks did w/Hughes & Kennedy... that doesn't mean any of those 3 are busts just yet obviously... but i get ur point, they've been smarter w/how they've been developing their kids than we have, no doubt about that... this is partly why i'd like to see Gardner be given a fair look next season because i think he's got a lot of the same moxy that Pedroia does & could grow into a nice player for us... maybe not as good a hitter as Pedroia but he'll bring some other elements w/his speed & ability to disrupt the pitching game when he's on base.

[Edited by - TMS on 10-14-2008 4:05 PM]

Posted by nyk4ever:

The bad part about all this talk is that this is why we will never develop guys like Boston did. Boston realized that they were too old so they took a year and they said, we're not going to be that good this year, but we believe we have the right people in place to develop and evaluate our talent, with no expectations for the year. That year produced Youkilis, Lester, Paplebonn as closer, and Dustin Pedrioa. And the team still won 86 games.

The Yankees are never willing to have a year like this and this year coming up should be the year that we do this. We severely need to see what Phil Hughes has to give us, what Ian Kennedy has to give us, Juan Miranda, Austin Jackson, the list goes on. These guys are never going to the get the chance to prove themselves with our organization.

Our organization is not run as intelligently as Boston's, and that's a bad sign for long-term success.