Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:
that's up to u if u don't wanna respond... when u come out w/comments like it's the GM's responsibility to hire managers & sign players & someone tries to explain to u how the Yankees' situation is not like every other situation in sports & u completely dismiss what they're telling u until they provide u printed source, it doesn't leave much room for debate.
I didn't dismiss what you told me. I took it seriously and asked for the evidence for it. If I dismissed it, I would have just ignored it and not cared about it. The claim is important enough that I'm interested in the evidence for it, but I treat it merely as a hypothesis until I see support for it.
Proof for that? That's a tough one.
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:
that's up to u if u don't wanna respond... when u come out w/comments like it's the GM's responsibility to hire managers & sign players & someone tries to explain to u how the Yankees' situation is not like every other situation in sports & u completely dismiss what they're telling u until they provide u printed source, it doesn't leave much room for debate.
I didn't dismiss what you told me. I took it seriously and asked for the evidence for it. If I dismissed it, I would have just ignored it and not cared about it. The claim is important enough that I'm interested in the evidence for it, but I treat it merely as a hypothesis until I see support for it.
Are you serious?
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:
that's up to u if u don't wanna respond... when u come out w/comments like it's the GM's responsibility to hire managers & sign players & someone tries to explain to u how the Yankees' situation is not like every other situation in sports & u completely dismiss what they're telling u until they provide u printed source, it doesn't leave much room for debate.
I didn't dismiss what you told me. I took it seriously and asked for the evidence for it. If I dismissed it, I would have just ignored it and not cared about it. The claim is important enough that I'm interested in the evidence for it, but I treat it merely as a hypothesis until I see support for it.
Are you serious?
No need to be disrespectful. To answer your question, yes I do seriously like to have evidence for my opinions.
[Edited by - bonn1997 on 10-29-2008 09:17 AM]
Posted by 4949:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:
that's up to u if u don't wanna respond... when u come out w/comments like it's the GM's responsibility to hire managers & sign players & someone tries to explain to u how the Yankees' situation is not like every other situation in sports & u completely dismiss what they're telling u until they provide u printed source, it doesn't leave much room for debate.
I didn't dismiss what you told me. I took it seriously and asked for the evidence for it. If I dismissed it, I would have just ignored it and not cared about it. The claim is important enough that I'm interested in the evidence for it, but I treat it merely as a hypothesis until I see support for it.
Proof for that? That's a tough one.
Proof is a strong word. I just wanted some evidence. Usually people assume things operate according to the norm ("this GM has normal GM powers") unless shown evidence to the contrary. If you're not going to make that assumption in a particular scenario, there should be compelling evidence for your view. And if you want other people to take that view seriously, you should be willing to share that evidence.
Bonn, there may or may not be any direct quotes about the Joe Girardi hiring, but it's also pretty obvious. You don't remember any of the meetings Cashman had with the Steinbrenner family in Tampa? I believe that came from Cashman's mouth, which yes, I am too lazy to look up. Maybe Cashman had input, but there was no way in hell that the Steinbrenner family had no input, b/c that's not what history shows, and we all know that you like to go by history. History shows that Steinbrenner ALWAYS has a hand in coaching decisions and SOMETIMES maybe even player decisions.
If you want to go against that evidence, Bonn, then that's your issue, but the proof is in that pudding right there, and it's quite delicious. Not sure why you don't try it.
Posted by Allanfan20:
Bonn, there may or may not be any direct quotes about the Joe Girardi hiring, but it's also pretty obvious. You don't remember any of the meetings Cashman had with the Steinbrenner family in Tampa? I believe that came from Cashman's mouth, which yes, I am too lazy to look up. Maybe Cashman had input, but there was no way in hell that the Steinbrenner family had no input, b/c that's not what history shows, and we all know that you like to go by history. History shows that Steinbrenner ALWAYS has a hand in coaching decisions and SOMETIMES maybe even player decisions.
If you want to go against that evidence, Bonn, then that's your issue, but the proof is in that pudding right there, and it's quite delicious. Not sure why you don't try it.
This is bigger than the Joe Girardi hiring. I don't care about that hiring. Another poster (I forgot who) turned the discussion to Joe Girardi. My beef is more that many attribute the bad decisions (usually spending a lot of money on big names) was the Steinbrenners' and every good decision was Cashman's. When people started saying Joe G was not Cashman's decision, it brought up my bigger beef--people assuming without evidence (or at least without showing me any evidence) that the hypothesis that this GM doesn't have ordinary GM powers is true. I'll admit that I wasn't clear yesterday that that is my real issue, not the Joe G hiring itself.
And why is it an issue to me? Why don't I let other people just believe whatever they want? Maybe I'm just argumentative by nature! I do have some hope though that if the fans would stop giving Cashman so much slack, we might get a new GM sooner. Keeping a couple of kids instead of getting Johan was one big mistake too many by Cashman for me.
[Edited by - bonn1997 on 10-29-2008 09:40 AM]
Posted by Allanfan20:
Bonn, there may or may not be any direct quotes about the Joe Girardi hiring, but it's also pretty obvious. You don't remember any of the meetings Cashman had with the Steinbrenner family in Tampa? I believe that came from Cashman's mouth, which yes, I am too lazy to look up. Maybe Cashman had input, but there was no way in hell that the Steinbrenner family had no input, b/c that's not what history shows, and we all know that you like to go by history. History shows that Steinbrenner ALWAYS has a hand in coaching decisions and SOMETIMES maybe even player decisions.
If you want to go against that evidence, Bonn, then that's your issue, but the proof is in that pudding right there, and it's quite delicious. Not sure why you don't try it.
That's not inconsistent with what I've been saying anyway. All parties including the owner have input but the final recommendation is the responsibility of the GM. Then, except in extraordinary circumstances, the owner approves that decision. That's how most organizations work. It's an extraordinary claim to make that this GM doesn't have ordinary GM powers. So I would like to see some evidence for it--not just for the Joe G hiring but all the big FA signings that people always attribute to Steinbrenner. If you don't have time to find any evidence (quotes would be a great start), I respect that but I'll still treat the your view (along with TMS's and NYK) as a hypothesis that I haven't been shown any evidence for. Now it certainly could be correct. Saying something is a hypothesis doesn't mean it's wrong. But I never start with the assumption that a hypothesis is true.
[Edited by - bonn1997 on 10-29-2008 09:23 AM]
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/comments/yankees-may-gun-for-manny-166607.html
Yankees May Gun For Manny
3 Comment
October 30
New York Post
"Manny Ramirez doesn't fit the Yankees' desire to get younger and more athletic, but several industry sources believe the Yankees will make a serious push for the free agent to play right field next year.
Though GM Brian Cashman says the top offseason priority is starting pitching, he did not rule out interest in the 36-year-old Ramirez.
"We are looking at starting pitching," Cashman said when asked about the team's interest in Ramirez. "We will see how the free agent and trade markets are."
The Dodgers have offered Ramirez a two-year deal worth $60 million to remain in Los Angeles, but he is expected to file for free agency and look for a four-year deal in the $80 million range."
write up a 3 year guaranteed offer at $70 mil w/a team option for a 4th & get 'er done.
[Edited by - TMS on 10-31-2008 12:37 PM]
That would be fine but they still need Tex and many pitching upgrades, including CC or Peavy or some other Cy Young level pitcher
Funny, I was just saying a couple weeks ago that maybe we should look at taking Manny and now he's on the radar!!! Okay, I say trade A-Rod for two starting pitchers, two prospects and sign Manny. Now let's see what happens.
Two starting pitchers and two prospects? So long as they're very good pitchers (at least #2 pitchers), I'd give you lots of credit if you caused the Yankees to do that!
a friend of mine txt msg'd me the other day he heard the Yanks were getting ready to offer CC a $140 mil contract... he didn't mention the years but i'm guessing it's pretty much the same contract Johan got from the Mets... haven't seen any news stories on this tho so take it w/a grain of salt.
Oh' there are no grains of salt when it comes to the Stienbrenners. The son has daddy's big toy now. He wants to play. Soon he'll want daddy's car too.
just as long as he wants Daddy's rings, i'm fine w/it.
Posted by TMS:
a friend of mine txt msg'd me the other day he heard the Yanks were getting ready to offer CC a $140 mil contract... he didn't mention the years but i'm guessing it's pretty much the same contract Johan got from the Mets... haven't seen any news stories on this tho so take it w/a grain of salt.
That is exactly what they need to do. They needed to be this aggressive over the last several off-seasons but better late than never.
what big name FA's did we miss out on other than Matsuzaka? & the Yankees made a viable bid for him, the Red Sox just outfoxed us.
I think Hank wanted to wait for the transition of him and his brother to take place, the transition of Giardi to take place and see what the results were. Hughes was a disappointment and Wang was just injured half the time. And A-Rod still' hasn't answered the call. Now that all has taken place, I think Hank has taken evaluations into consideration and is now going to make his first big moves to right this ship.
When you suddenly hear Manny is on the Radar, then you know' big things are coming our way. I say 'watch out MLB! Here we come again'!
It is time to open the new Yankee Stadium with a BIG bang!!!
Posted by TMS:
what big name FA's did we miss out on other than Matsuzaka? & the Yankees made a viable bid for him, the Red Sox just outfoxed us.
Big name? I didn't say that. They needed to get better players, though. This off-season is not the first one that good players have been available, even though it will hopefully be the first one in a while where the Yankees aggressively tried to upgrade the team. We had probably the worst hitting everyday centerfielder in the majors most of last year; we've had no bridge to Mariano for most of the previous years (although they finally addressed that); we've had to use starting pitchers like Rasner and Ponson or rookie kids with no proven track record; and we haven't had a good long-reliever ever since we list Remiro Mendoza. There were many better options.
i agree they were very conservative last offseason w/the go with the youth plan & it didn't work out last year... we didn't pass up on any bigname FA's last year tho other than Torii Hunter, who i wanted to sign... ur right about the bullpen, it's been a problem every year other than last year when they finally got some quality arms from our farm system to contribute like Veras & Ramirez, as well as the late callups who looked good in Melancon & Coke... Brian Bruney looked awesome, so u have to say that was a good acquisition... for once it's nice not to have to worry about the bullpen... if we get some arms that can go deep into ballgames then long relief won't be as much of an issue... Coke has experience as a starter so he might be able to fill that role for us next year.
Hey Jay just for you.....
from SI.com
Padres GM Kevin Towers said Jake Peavy has added the Yankees and Angels to the list of teams to whom he'd approve a trade.
