Posted by islesfan:
I think we're almost at the point where we need to withdraw our offer to CC and move on. The guy obviously doesn't want to play in NY and will only do so for the money. Take the money, add a few years and sign Texeira.
I dont really want Tex, but I would gladly give him the money rather than CC, Sheets or Burnett. I wouldn't touch those 3 of those guys with a 10000000 foot pole.
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by islesfan:
There are reports that the Yankees are going to offer Sheets a 2 year deal for $30M. Not a bad deal, don't know if he'd take just a 2 year deal though. If the guy is healthy, he's at least a #2 starter. He threw 200 innings last year but had to be shutdown at the end of the year. I'd rather sign him for 2 than Burnett for 5.
Wow that is HORRIBLE. I want absolutely nothing to do with Ben Sheets, nothing AT ALL. The guy is ALWAYS injured.
Like I said, I think you're going to be very disappointed with this off-season because it appears Cashman has concluded that aggressively utilizing the FA market is a smart way to use our financial advantage.
Posted by islesfan:
I think we're almost at the point where we need to withdraw our offer to CC and move on. The guy obviously doesn't want to play in NY and will only do so for the money. Take the money, add a few years and sign Texeira.
I'd give him a small deadline with no exceptions. Maybe they already have for all we know.
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by islesfan:
There are reports that the Yankees are going to offer Sheets a 2 year deal for $30M. Not a bad deal, don't know if he'd take just a 2 year deal though. If the guy is healthy, he's at least a #2 starter. He threw 200 innings last year but had to be shutdown at the end of the year. I'd rather sign him for 2 than Burnett for 5.
Wow that is HORRIBLE. I want absolutely nothing to do with Ben Sheets, nothing AT ALL. The guy is ALWAYS injured.
Like I said, I think you're going to be very disappointed with this off-season because it appears Cashman has concluded that aggressively utilizing the FA market is a smart way to use our financial advantage.
When you have $80M coming off your payroll, what would you do? Invest it all in scouting?
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by islesfan:
There are reports that the Yankees are going to offer Sheets a 2 year deal for $30M. Not a bad deal, don't know if he'd take just a 2 year deal though. If the guy is healthy, he's at least a #2 starter. He threw 200 innings last year but had to be shutdown at the end of the year. I'd rather sign him for 2 than Burnett for 5.
Wow that is HORRIBLE. I want absolutely nothing to do with Ben Sheets, nothing AT ALL. The guy is ALWAYS injured.
Like I said, I think you're going to be very disappointed with this off-season because it appears Cashman has concluded that aggressively utilizing the FA market is a smart way to use our financial advantage.
When you have $80M coming off your payroll, what would you do? Invest it all in scouting?
That's a question for NYK, not me. I fully support aggressively pursuing FAs.
Posted by islesfan:
When you have $80M coming off your payroll, what would you do? Invest it all in scouting?
I understand there is alot of money coming off the books, I totally get that and I would love to spend it. What I don't like is just throwing truckloads of money at guys who I deem are questionable. To me, Sabathia, Burnett and Sheets are all EXTREMELY questionable signings. In Sabathia's case, the guy has a terrible postseason trackrecord (in 5 starts his ERA is in the 7's) and I worry about both his weight and his arm. In the case of both Burnett and Sheets, both of these guys have been injured more than they've pitched, both are powerarms which tells you the injury situation won't change and neither is all that young anymore.
I understand the Yankees have an excess of money to spend, but I just don't see the point in throwing money at these types of players. Instead of signing a guy like Burnett, penciling him in as a 3 or 4 starter and hoping he makes 25-30 starts and keep your fingers crossed everytime he takes the mound, I would rather wait until a pitcher who is a bit more dependable to come around or just make a trade.
[Edited by - nyk4ever on 12-09-2008 11:41 AM]
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by islesfan:
When you have $80M coming off your payroll, what would you do? Invest it all in scouting?
I understand there is alot of money coming off the books, I totally get that and I would love to spend it. What I don't like is just throwing truckloads of money at guys who I deem are questionable. To me, Sabathia, Burnett and Sheets are all EXTREMELY questionable signings. In Sabathia's case, the guy has a terrible postseason trackrecord (in 5 starts his ERA is in the 7's) and I worry about both his weight and his arm. In the case of both Burnett and Sheets, both of these guys have been injured more than they've pitched, both are powerarms which tells you the injury situation won't change and neither is all that young anymore.
I understand the Yankees have an excess of money to spend, but I just don't see the point in throwing money at these types of players. Instead of signing a guy like Burnett, penciling him in as a 3 or 4 starter and hoping he makes 25-30 starts and keep your fingers crossed everytime he takes the mound, I would rather wait until a pitcher who is a bit more dependable to come around or just make a trade.
[Edited by - nyk4ever on 12-09-2008 11:41 AM]
Who isn't questionable? There's no such thing as a sure thing. I have the same concerns about CC, Burnett and Sheets. I think with CC you have to take that risk because he's never been injured and he's coming off a great season. He did win the Cy Young in the AL but there is a small concern with his postseason record. As for Burnett and Sheets, there is great risk involved but on a short term deal the risk is considerably less. No way should they go 5 years for Burnett but a 2 year deal for Sheets isn't bad.
You can't just wait and save the money for someone that you really like. This isn't like the NBA in 2010. And it's real easy to say "just make a trade" but how often to top flight pitchers/players get traded and you have to give up a ton to get them and then pay them. You have to take some risk when you sign free agents but you hope that your GM does his due diligence and limits some of that risk.
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by islesfan:
When you have $80M coming off your payroll, what would you do? Invest it all in scouting?
I understand there is alot of money coming off the books, I totally get that and I would love to spend it. What I don't like is just throwing truckloads of money at guys who I deem are questionable. To me, Sabathia, Burnett and Sheets are all EXTREMELY questionable signings. In Sabathia's case, the guy has a terrible postseason trackrecord (in 5 starts his ERA is in the 7's) and I worry about both his weight and his arm. In the case of both Burnett and Sheets, both of these guys have been injured more than they've pitched, both are powerarms which tells you the injury situation won't change and neither is all that young anymore.
I understand the Yankees have an excess of money to spend, but I just don't see the point in throwing money at these types of players. Instead of signing a guy like Burnett, penciling him in as a 3 or 4 starter and hoping he makes 25-30 starts and keep your fingers crossed everytime he takes the mound, I would rather wait until a pitcher who is a bit more dependable to come around or just make a trade.
[Edited by - nyk4ever on 12-09-2008 11:41 AM]
Who isn't questionable? There's no such thing as a sure thing. I have the same concerns about CC, Burnett and Sheets. I think with CC you have to take that risk because he's never been injured and he's coming off a great season. He did win the Cy Young in the AL but there is a small concern with his postseason record. As for Burnett and Sheets, there is great risk involved but on a short term deal the risk is considerably less. No way should they go 5 years for Burnett but a 2 year deal for Sheets isn't bad.
You can't just wait and save the money for someone that you really like. This isn't like the NBA in 2010. And it's real easy to say "just make a trade" but how often to top flight pitchers/players get traded and you have to give up a ton to get them and then pay them. You have to take some risk when you sign free agents but you hope that your GM does his due diligence and limits some of that risk.
Isles you dont think I understand all that? I just think this is a poor year for free-agency in the pitching ranks and would rather hold off on signing someone who is just going to burn us or make a trade for someone.
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by islesfan:
When you have $80M coming off your payroll, what would you do? Invest it all in scouting?
I understand there is alot of money coming off the books, I totally get that and I would love to spend it. What I don't like is just throwing truckloads of money at guys who I deem are questionable. To me, Sabathia, Burnett and Sheets are all EXTREMELY questionable signings. In Sabathia's case, the guy has a terrible postseason trackrecord (in 5 starts his ERA is in the 7's) and I worry about both his weight and his arm. In the case of both Burnett and Sheets, both of these guys have been injured more than they've pitched, both are powerarms which tells you the injury situation won't change and neither is all that young anymore.
I understand the Yankees have an excess of money to spend, but I just don't see the point in throwing money at these types of players. Instead of signing a guy like Burnett, penciling him in as a 3 or 4 starter and hoping he makes 25-30 starts and keep your fingers crossed everytime he takes the mound, I would rather wait until a pitcher who is a bit more dependable to come around or just make a trade.
[Edited by - nyk4ever on 12-09-2008 11:41 AM]
Who isn't questionable? There's no such thing as a sure thing. I have the same concerns about CC, Burnett and Sheets. I think with CC you have to take that risk because he's never been injured and he's coming off a great season. He did win the Cy Young in the AL but there is a small concern with his postseason record. As for Burnett and Sheets, there is great risk involved but on a short term deal the risk is considerably less. No way should they go 5 years for Burnett but a 2 year deal for Sheets isn't bad.
You can't just wait and save the money for someone that you really like. This isn't like the NBA in 2010. And it's real easy to say "just make a trade" but how often to top flight pitchers/players get traded and you have to give up a ton to get them and then pay them. You have to take some risk when you sign free agents but you hope that your GM does his due diligence and limits some of that risk.
Hmmm. I agree with every word Islesfan said about the Yankees here. I'm in astonishment.
yes, it looks like cc's heart is on the west coast. but the $$$'s may be too much to pass up.
yanks should've said, here's $150 mil. everyday you pass, we deduct $1 mil from the offer.
it will be an interesting offseason for sure.
but looking at next season, this is what i see:
1. our offense will be better. down year for arod and cano as well as missing jorge + matsui hurt. but it will be tough to replace abreu.
2. we will have the best bullpen in baseball.
3. losing moose hurts but it's offset by adding wang. full season with joba in the rotation. but yanks have to sign at least 1 quality starter.
4. girardi has a year under his belt. he's only been a manager for 2 years so far.
I'll just add that Burnett makes about 75% of his starts. So in any given playoff game (which is when we'd really want him), there's a 3 in 4 chance you have a very good pitcher out there and a 1 in 4 chance that you're gonna have to use your fifth starter. It's not ideal but I can live with those odds. Cashman better have a dependable fifth starter, though!
I could see the Yanks roto being Wang-Burnett-Joba-Perez-Hughes/Kennedy..... i think thats a very good rotation.
Posted by djsunyc:
yes, it looks like cc's heart is on the west coast. but the $$$'s may be too much to pass up.
yanks should've said, here's $150 mil. everyday you pass, we deduct $1 mil from the offer.
it will be an interesting offseason for sure.
but looking at next season, this is what i see:
1. our offense will be better. down year for arod and cano as well as missing jorge + matsui hurt. but it will be tough to replace abreu.
2. we will have the best bullpen in baseball.
3. losing moose hurts but it's offset by adding wang. full season with joba in the rotation. but yanks have to sign at least 1 quality starter.
4. girardi has a year under his belt. he's only been a manager for 2 years so far.
#1: Depends on how we replace Giambi and Abreu and how all our old veterans hold up. We have a lot of old guys and the team better be prepared to weather a lot of injuries. So far all we've done is replace Giambi with Swisher and hope that our old guys (who will be a year older) are healthier than last year.
#2: Yes but if you gave me the following choice: do you want the best bullpen, best starting rotation, or best offense? The best bullpen would be a distant third. It's nice to have but it's more of an "icing on the cake" kind of thing once you have the other two priorities taken care of.
#3: Not really. Wang pitched about half the season last year. Also just "off-setting" means we're back at the same level as last year, which sucked.
#4: I don't think Girardi was much of the problem anyway. It was Cashman, Steinbrenner, and whoever else assembled the team.
The roster we have today would still be battling Toronto for 3rd vs. 4th place IMO. If you're banking on our older guys staying healthier than last year, you're taking a major (and unecessary) risk.
^^ best bullpen is underrated. you don't need the best rotation when your bullpen is tops. Teams in the playoffs and that go far have great pens.
Peter Abraham made a good point on his blog, that most teams won't be officially signing any free agents until after Thursday when the Rule 5 draft takes place. That way they don't have to add the signed player to the 40 man roster and are able to protect 1 more player.
You'll hear word that teams have come to terms with a free agent, like the Mets and K-Rod, but nothing will be official until Friday at the earliest.
Posted by jaydh:
I could see the Yanks roto being Wang-Burnett-Joba-Perez-Hughes/Kennedy..... i think thats a very good rotation.
A lot of question marks in that rotation. I'll be fine with it if they can add Texeira and Manny to their lineup. It's definitely feasible with that cost effective rotation.
Posted by Bonn1997:
Pettitte rejected a 1 year, $10 mil offer from the Yankees?! That's a more than fair offer.
[Edited by - bonn1997 on 12-09-2008 07:13 AM]
Yankees gave Moose a 2 year $22 million dollar contract when they signed him to his last extension at 37 years of age, Andy might be holding out for another year to be added to the contract... he's only 36, i'd give him a 2 year deal if i were the Yankees.
#2: Yes but if you gave me the following choice: do you want the best bullpen, best starting rotation, or best offense? The best bullpen would be a distant third. It's nice to have but it's more of an "icing on the cake" kind of thing once you have the other two priorities taken care of.
the Yankees won the WS in '96 because they had the best bullpen in baseball... their rotation was not better than ATL's big 3 & their lineup wasn't the most potent in baseball either by a longshot.
Posted by TMS:
#2: Yes but if you gave me the following choice: do you want the best bullpen, best starting rotation, or best offense? The best bullpen would be a distant third. It's nice to have but it's more of an "icing on the cake" kind of thing once you have the other two priorities taken care of.
the Yankees won the WS in '96 because they had the best bullpen in baseball... their rotation was not better than ATL's big 3 & their lineup wasn't the most potent in baseball either by a longshot.
I never said the bullpen was irrelevant, only that it was less important than starting pitching and offense. I don't think that one example disproves my statement.
rumors so far:
- cc did not turn down the offer from the yanks. he's still contemplating.
- yanks made a 2 year offer to ben sheets in the $27 mil range
- they're contemplating making a 5 year offer to burnett
- yanks are negotiating a 4 year deal for derek lowe at $65 mil
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:
#2: Yes but if you gave me the following choice: do you want the best bullpen, best starting rotation, or best offense? The best bullpen would be a distant third. It's nice to have but it's more of an "icing on the cake" kind of thing once you have the other two priorities taken care of.
the Yankees won the WS in '96 because they had the best bullpen in baseball... their rotation was not better than ATL's big 3 & their lineup wasn't the most potent in baseball either by a longshot.
I never said the bullpen was irrelevant, only that it was less important than starting pitching and offense. I don't think that one example disproves my statement.
the point is, all 3 are equally important to have, but u don't necessarily need to have 1 more than the other to win in this league like u seem to think... the Angels won the same exact way, by having the best bullpen... in the end it's the team playing the best baseball going into the WS that wins... the Phillies won last year not because they had the best bullpen, best rotation or the best lineup, but because they executed on the field when it counted.
[Edited by - TMS on 12-09-2008 3:52 PM]
