Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:
#2: Yes but if you gave me the following choice: do you want the best bullpen, best starting rotation, or best offense? The best bullpen would be a distant third. It's nice to have but it's more of an "icing on the cake" kind of thing once you have the other two priorities taken care of.
the Yankees won the WS in '96 because they had the best bullpen in baseball... their rotation was not better than ATL's big 3 & their lineup wasn't the most potent in baseball either by a longshot.
I never said the bullpen was irrelevant, only that it was less important than starting pitching and offense. I don't think that one example disproves my statement.
the point is, all 3 are equally important to have, but u don't necessarily need to have 1 more than the other to win in this league like u seem to think... the Angels won the same exact way, by having the best bullpen... in the end it's the team playing the best baseball going into the WS that wins... the Phillies won last year not because they had the best bullpen, best rotation or the best lineup, but because they executed on the field when it counted.
[Edited by - TMS on 12-09-2008 3:52 PM]
Posted by djsunyc:
rumors so far:
- cc did not turn down the offer from the yanks. he's still contemplating.
- yanks made a 2 year offer to ben sheets in the $27 mil range
- they're contemplating making a 5 year offer to burnett
- yanks are negotiating a 4 year deal for derek lowe at $65 mil
No to Burnett and no more than 3 years for Lowe. Let's sign Texeira, Sabathia and Lowe/Sheets and call it a day. That would be a superb offseason.
i don't think we're going after Tex if we sign CC... it's probably gonna be 1 or the other.
This is the Yankees. If they wanted to, they could sign both. They need to return to Evil Empire status. Make it happen.
Fuck Sabathia. Didn't want him to begin with and damn sure don't want him now after he's sat on this offer for 3 weeks. Theres no reason to beg the guy to come here when they are already offering him 40million more than anyone else.
i'm starting to feel the same way... CC is not gonna get a better offer than what the Yanks offered him... if he's looking for another offer that comes a little closer than MIL's does so he can stay on the West Coast in the weaker hitting league, i say to hell with him & move on... Mark Tex & 2 other pitching FA's would be a helluva offseason either way.
The Yankees should offer Texeira a contract. Make it known that they are going to sign only one of them. Then sign Lowe and put even more pressure on Sabathia to make up his fucking mind. I want to see Cashman start acting like he has the Yankees money behind him instead of getting played by Sabathia and his agent.
Like I said yesterday, midnight tonight should be the deadline before the Yankees pull the offer. Let them come begging them for the same deal when nobody tops even the Milwaukee offer and see how they feel having left $40 million on the table.
Posted by islesfan:
The Yankees should offer Texeira a contract. Make it known that they are going to sign only one of them. Then sign Lowe and put even more pressure on Sabathia to make up his fucking mind. I want to see Cashman start acting like he has the Yankees money behind him instead of getting played by Sabathia and his agent.
Like I said yesterday, midnight tonight should be the deadline before the Yankees pull the offer. Let them come begging them for the same deal when nobody tops even the Milwaukee offer and see how they feel having left $40 million on the table.
This is why I wanted a brighter GM making the decisions. We are, or at least should be, in the driver's seat. I don't know what Cash has been doing these past 3 weeks. I guess he feels that if we put as little pressure on CC as possible, it will all workout.
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:
#2: Yes but if you gave me the following choice: do you want the best bullpen, best starting rotation, or best offense? The best bullpen would be a distant third. It's nice to have but it's more of an "icing on the cake" kind of thing once you have the other two priorities taken care of.
the Yankees won the WS in '96 because they had the best bullpen in baseball... their rotation was not better than ATL's big 3 & their lineup wasn't the most potent in baseball either by a longshot.
I never said the bullpen was irrelevant, only that it was less important than starting pitching and offense. I don't think that one example disproves my statement.
the point is, all 3 are equally important to have, but u don't necessarily need to have 1 more than the other to win in this league like u seem to think... the Angels won the same exact way, by having the best bullpen... in the end it's the team playing the best baseball going into the WS that wins... the Phillies won last year not because they had the best bullpen, best rotation or the best lineup, but because they executed on the field when it counted.
[Edited by - TMS on 12-09-2008 3:52 PM]
Equally important? I don't know about that. When was the last time a team offered an outstanding starting pitcher for a reliever in a trade? Or an outstanding hitter for a reliever? I sure don't think GMs view them equally. I view every inning as equally important. So on average your starter is going to contribute about 6 innings and your bullpen about 3.
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by islesfan:
The Yankees should offer Texeira a contract. Make it known that they are going to sign only one of them. Then sign Lowe and put even more pressure on Sabathia to make up his fucking mind. I want to see Cashman start acting like he has the Yankees money behind him instead of getting played by Sabathia and his agent.
Like I said yesterday, midnight tonight should be the deadline before the Yankees pull the offer. Let them come begging them for the same deal when nobody tops even the Milwaukee offer and see how they feel having left $40 million on the table.
This is why I wanted a brighter GM making the decisions. We are, or at least should be, in the driver's seat. I don't know what Cash has been doing these past 3 weeks. I guess he feels that if we put as little pressure on CC as possible, it will all workout.
It has nothing to do about being bright. He's just playing in wrong. It might have been the right tact earlier but now he needs to start playing players and agents off each other to get things done.
Posted by islesfan:
The Yankees should offer Texeira a contract. Make it known that they are going to sign only one of them. Then sign Lowe and put even more pressure on Sabathia to make up his fucking mind. I want to see Cashman start acting like he has the Yankees money behind him instead of getting played by Sabathia and his agent.
Like I said yesterday, midnight tonight should be the deadline before the Yankees pull the offer. Let them come begging them for the same deal when nobody tops even the Milwaukee offer and see how they feel having left $40 million on the table.
if the Yanks pull their offer i'm pretty sure other teams will be ramping up their pursuit of CC... they should leave the offer on the table but they should still go hard after Tex & Lowe... those 3 guys together will add up to around $60 mil in total salary for next season & we're clearing $80 mil off the books this offseason, so they'll still have cash leftover to sign Andy P to a contract extension at ~$11 mil per over 2 years like they gave to Moose a couple years back & still have a lower overall payroll than last season.
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by islesfan:
The Yankees should offer Texeira a contract. Make it known that they are going to sign only one of them. Then sign Lowe and put even more pressure on Sabathia to make up his fucking mind. I want to see Cashman start acting like he has the Yankees money behind him instead of getting played by Sabathia and his agent.
Like I said yesterday, midnight tonight should be the deadline before the Yankees pull the offer. Let them come begging them for the same deal when nobody tops even the Milwaukee offer and see how they feel having left $40 million on the table.
This is why I wanted a brighter GM making the decisions. We are, or at least should be, in the driver's seat. I don't know what Cash has been doing these past 3 weeks. I guess he feels that if we put as little pressure on CC as possible, it will all workout.
He's just playing it wrong.
I agree and would add that I'm not surprised
Posted by TMS:
Posted by islesfan:
The Yankees should offer Texeira a contract. Make it known that they are going to sign only one of them. Then sign Lowe and put even more pressure on Sabathia to make up his fucking mind. I want to see Cashman start acting like he has the Yankees money behind him instead of getting played by Sabathia and his agent.
Like I said yesterday, midnight tonight should be the deadline before the Yankees pull the offer. Let them come begging them for the same deal when nobody tops even the Milwaukee offer and see how they feel having left $40 million on the table.
if the Yanks pull their offer i'm pretty sure other teams will be ramping up their pursuit of CC... they should leave the offer on the table but they should still go hard after Tex & Lowe... those 3 guys together will add up to around $60 mil in total salary for next season & we're clearing $80 mil off the books this offseason, so they'll still have cash leftover to sign Andy P to a contract extension at ~$11 mil per over 2 years like they gave to Moose a couple years back & still have a lower overall payroll than last season.
I actually agree with this.
From Peter Abraham's blog:
That crafty Brian Cashman blew off his meeting with the New York writers today. According to an e-mail from the Yankees, “Unfortunately Brian is off hotel property and unavailble for the rest of the evening. This was not scheduled and we apologize for the inconvenience.”
This means one of two things:
1. Cashman is having dinner someplace nice with an agent.
2. He’s out looking for who killed Tupac.
I’ll go with door No. 1. Once we learn the particulars, we’ll let you know.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I can only assume that he's in the back room at the Rhino.
i'm not sure if *daring* cc to sign is the way to go. let's face it, the yanks really need a pitcher. borderline desperate. so putting a deadline on a guy that's clearly contemplating moving to ny may not be the way to go. whether cc signed 3 weeks ago or 3 weeks from now shouldn't matter b/c at the end of the day, the yankees get cc. and i don't think it's stopping them from doing what they want. and it doesn't look like tex was high on the priority list - hence the swisher deal. yanks #1 priority heading into these meetings looks to be pitching and more pitching. and in all reality, yanks need to sign two starters.
From Peter Abraham's blog:
Yankees making a move on Sabathia?
Interesting things going on:
Giants GM Brian Sabean said that CC Sabathia is a back-burner issue for his team. The Angels said roughly the same thing.
And it seems that tonight’s last-minute meeting that Brian Cashman dashed off to involves one CC Sabathia.
More to come as it becomes available.
i'd bet good money that CC will be a dodger. he wants to play in the NL, he wants to play in so-cal, and the dodgers GM just said that CC wants to be a dodger.
if i'm cashman i re-group by offering teixiera a big deal, try to sign burnett and ben sheets. both are big injury risks, so maybe he goes after lowe. regardless, i highly doubt CC is going to be a yankee. i think he likes playing the NL, dude's a good hitter.
I think CC is a Yank by tommorow
Posted by VDesai:
I think CC is a Yank by tommorow
You may not be far off.
From Ken Rosenthal's blog on FoxSports.com
"10:57 p.m. — Cashman flies to SF for CC visit
Yankees general manager Brian Cashman flew to San Francisco Tuesday night to meet with CC Sabathia, according to a major-league source. The meeting, first reported by Newsday, is the Yankees' third in three days with Sabathia and could indicate that negotations are coming to a head.
The Yankees' initial offer was for six years, $140 million, which would be a record contract for a starting pitcher. "
The only way I'll be semi-happy with signing Sabathia and another starter like Sheets or something is if it moves Joba back to the bullpen.
CC
Wang
Sheets
Pettite
Hughes
There is no need for Joba to be in the rotation to begin with, let alone as a 4th starter. Move him back to the pen.
