Too bad it was an afternoon game. I was working
Posted by VDesai:
The rules have kept him healthy and kept him under his innings limit with the playoffs looming. Ultimately they were the right thing to do...you introduce subjectivity and you can allow for that to get exploited. He's been allowed to adjust to the pen at his own pace and now he's clearly ready to be a weapon in the playoffs. All the while we've made up a ton of games in the standings. IMO a big success.
obviously when things work out you can call them a success... still doesn't answer the question whether or not the whole Joba rules thing was overkill or not... we could have just as easily used him to win at least 2 or 3 more games that our BP otherwise blew & been ahead in the division by now & in position to have homefield advantage throughout the playoffs... would it have been a success then? i honestly don't buy for a second that we would have blown this kid's arm out by using him for a few more games by basing his appearances on pitch counts from the start rather than innings pitched.
Home field advantage in the playoffs isn't important enough to take that risk with a 21 year old.
i just got done saying i wouldn't blow the kid's arm out by throwing him out there on back to back days on a regular basis... i just said you curb his appearances based on pitch count, not on innings pitched... the Angels took a similar "risk" with a young kid in '01 & went on to win a WS championship because of it... seems like it's worked out fine for them... i don't recall there being any "K-Rod Rules" in place when they went that route either, but i could be wrong.
ian kennedy shut down for the rest of the season.
here's some rookie hazing:
joba the lion. kennedy as dorothy, shelly as the scarecrow and hughes as the tin man
igawa
ohlendorf
Detroit lost.
Yankees Magic Number is 1.
Now I'm glad they lost today. They can celebrate a hard fought for and well earned playoff spot, on the field tomorrow if they win in Tampa.
Posted by djsunyc:
ian kennedy shut down for the rest of the season.
here's some rookie hazing:
joba the lion. kennedy as dorothy, shelly as the scarecrow and hughes as the tin man
Is he shut down for the rest of the season? He won't even be used as a reliever?
Posted by TMS:
i just got done saying i wouldn't blow the kid's arm out by throwing him out there on back to back days on a regular basis... i just said you curb his appearances based on pitch count, not on innings pitched... the Angels took a similar "risk" with a young kid in '01 & went on to win a WS championship because of it... seems like it's worked out fine for them... i don't recall there being any "K-Rod Rules" in place when they went that route either, but i could be wrong.
What would be the pitch count cut off? When he had one inning with around 20 pitches, would you give him 2 days off then? I don't know how many total innings (minor and major league) K-Rod pitched compared to Joba, but you have to treat each individual differently depending on what you think there arm is ready for.
Posted by TMS:
i just got done saying i wouldn't blow the kid's arm out by throwing him out there on back to back days on a regular basis... i just said you curb his appearances based on pitch count, not on innings pitched... the Angels took a similar "risk" with a young kid in '01 & went on to win a WS championship because of it... seems like it's worked out fine for them... i don't recall there being any "K-Rod Rules" in place when they went that route either, but i could be wrong.
Rodriguez a) was already a reliever at the time and b) only started pitching heavy innnings in the playoffs...not really close to the same thing.
[Edited by - VDesai on 09-25-2007 09:44 AM]
where the hell is edwar? there's 1 character missing:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:
i just got done saying i wouldn't blow the kid's arm out by throwing him out there on back to back days on a regular basis... i just said you curb his appearances based on pitch count, not on innings pitched... the Angels took a similar "risk" with a young kid in '01 & went on to win a WS championship because of it... seems like it's worked out fine for them... i don't recall there being any "K-Rod Rules" in place when they went that route either, but i could be wrong.
What would be the pitch count cut off? When he had one inning with around 20 pitches, would you give him 2 days off then? I don't know how many total innings (minor and major league) K-Rod pitched compared to Joba, but you have to treat each individual differently depending on what you think there arm is ready for.
The ridiculous notion that he needed a full day off after throwing 5 or 6 pitches the night before is what i'm talking about here... please don't talk to me about "what you think their arm is ready for"... anyone who can't pitch on a back to back after throwing 5 pitches the night before probably shouldn't be participating in any physical sport period.
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by TMS:
i just got done saying i wouldn't blow the kid's arm out by throwing him out there on back to back days on a regular basis... i just said you curb his appearances based on pitch count, not on innings pitched... the Angels took a similar "risk" with a young kid in '01 & went on to win a WS championship because of it... seems like it's worked out fine for them... i don't recall there being any "K-Rod Rules" in place when they went that route either, but i could be wrong.
Rodriguez a) was already a reliever at the time and b) only started pitching heavy innnings in the playoffs...not really close to the same thing.
[Edited by - VDesai on 09-25-2007 09:44 AM]
K Rod was moved from a starting pitcher to relief duty in '02 after he'd had some arm problems in the minors... they brought him up as a 20 yo wet behind the ears kid & he helped vault that team to a world title.
oh & you got ur facts wrong on what you said about KRod only throwing big innings in the playoffs... KRod had over 300 innings logged under he belt in the minors before being called up to the majors... compare that to Joba's 88.
i just feel they were being overly cautious w/Joba earlier in the season... it's worked out because they are in the postseason now, but i happen to think it was overkill... i agree w/David Justice in that it shoulda been based on pitch count from the very beginning... just my opinion.
Why do people assume that the Joba Rules were the Ten Commandments or something? They aren't written in stone and they aren't an absolute. They were put in place to help the kid adjust to being a reliever and condition his arm and body. Obviously he's adjusted as well as could be expected if not more and they can start using him as they would any other reliever come playoff time.
They weren't being overly cautious at all. The kid has special skills and they didn't want to risk damaging him. That's all, there's nothing more to it. They did the right thing. Now they can and have been letting him loose a little more. It's not just about pitch count because you have to consider him actually warming up to pitch. That takes something out of you as well.
Speaking of Joba and pitch count/innings, anybody here that story, that Michael Kay was talking about yesterday, where Mike Mussina was asked about it, and ssaid he should be available everyday no matter what, in the post season, and then Brian Cashman was asked about it, and he got all pissed off.
Maybe Mussina needs to keep his mouth shut and mind his own business, whether he is right or wrong.
Posted by Allanfan20:
Speaking of Joba and pitch count/innings, anybody here that story, that Michael Kay was talking about yesterday, where Mike Mussina was asked about it, and ssaid he should be available everyday no matter what, in the post season, and then Brian Cashman was asked about it, and he got all pissed off.
Maybe Mussina needs to keep his mouth shut and mind his own business, whether he is right or wrong.
Yeah, it was in the paper yesterday.
Cashman didn't sound happy, saying that Mike should worry about his pitching. Personally I agree with Mussina. If he's not available like everybody else come playoff time then he shouldn't be on the roster. Baby him and prepare him to be ready for the playoffs but once you're there you have to sell out to a certain extent. Obviously I don't think they should pitch him for 2-3 innings every game but within reason he should be available the same way everyone in the bullpen is. No more or less than Rivera is available depending on if he pitches 1 or 2 innings.
playoff time will see NO joba rules. i think that's pretty evident.
Posted by djsunyc:
playoff time will see NO joba rules. i think that's pretty evident.
I hope they're in position enough to see that it's evident.
Posted by islesfan:
Why do people assume that the Joba Rules were the Ten Commandments or something? They aren't written in stone and they aren't an absolute.
maybe because they WERE set in stone when they were first implemented? just a guess.
like i said earlier, i thought it was overkill when they first came out with them, & it's just now that the Yankees' organization is saying they are going to be flexible on the rules & base it on pitch counts, the way they should have been doing it all along IMHO.
