Posted by islesfan:
Why do people assume that the Joba Rules were the Ten Commandments or something? They aren't written in stone and they aren't an absolute.
maybe because they WERE set in stone when they were first implemented? just a guess.
like i said earlier, i thought it was overkill when they first came out with them, & it's just now that the Yankees' organization is saying they are going to be flexible on the rules & base it on pitch counts, the way they should have been doing it all along IMHO.
Posted by TMS:
Posted by islesfan:
Why do people assume that the Joba Rules were the Ten Commandments or something? They aren't written in stone and they aren't an absolute.
maybe because they WERE set in stone when they were first implemented? just a guess.
like i said earlier, i thought it was overkill when they first came out with them, & it's just now that the Yankees' organization is saying they are going to be flexible on the rules & base it on pitch counts, the way they should have been doing it all along IMHO.
Yeah, and they were always subject to change. Why do people think they weren't?
there was never any indication early on that the rules were going to be amended later on... the conditions were set in stone... pitch 1 inning, rest a day... pitch 2 innings, rest 2 days... no regard to pitch counts or anything about the rules being amended later when they first came out were ever mentioned... that's why i had a problem with it... it was ridiculous in my view to limit a kid w/this much talent so much when we were in the heat of a pennant race... again, i didn't say burn this kid's arm out... i said the rules should have been predicated on pitch counts from the very beginning, which is what they're finally doing now.
anyway it is what it is... i'm just stating my own opinion on the whole Joba Rules nonsense... hopefully this kid can be allowed to play as significant of a role in our postseason run this year as KRod was afforded for the halos a few years back.
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:
i just got done saying i wouldn't blow the kid's arm out by throwing him out there on back to back days on a regular basis... i just said you curb his appearances based on pitch count, not on innings pitched... the Angels took a similar "risk" with a young kid in '01 & went on to win a WS championship because of it... seems like it's worked out fine for them... i don't recall there being any "K-Rod Rules" in place when they went that route either, but i could be wrong.
What would be the pitch count cut off? When he had one inning with around 20 pitches, would you give him 2 days off then? I don't know how many total innings (minor and major league) K-Rod pitched compared to Joba, but you have to treat each individual differently depending on what you think there arm is ready for.
The ridiculous notion that he needed a full day off after throwing 5 or 6 pitches the night before is what i'm talking about here... please don't talk to me about "what you think their arm is ready for"... anyone who can't pitch on a back to back after throwing 5 pitches the night before probably shouldn't be participating in any physical sport period.
I hear what you're saying. I think you do have to take into account that he still had to warm up even if he had a quick inning but I guess you don't fully exert yourself and probably don't stress the arm as much when you fully warm up.
come on man... players at this level have been doing this all their lives, pitching as starters & sometimes in relief all throughout grade school, babe ruth league, HS, college & then the minors... warming up is not going to blow out anybody's arm at the age of 45 much less the age of 21.
btw, i found the others:
Chase Wright as Glinda (he must've drawn the short straw) & Tyler Clippard as another flying monkey
& Edwar as the Witch... lol!
all pictures can be seen here:
[URL=http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/galleries/rookies_in_oz/rookies_in_oz.html?c=0]http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball..._in_oz.html?c=0[/URL]
How do you not take warming up into consideration? Warming up is more stress and wear on your arm, no matter whether you get in the game or not.
How often do you hear Yankee announcers say that it's a bad thing that Mariano had to get up and warm up even if he doesn't get into a game that he shouldn't have to go into?
dude, the way they were handling Joba, he would only warm up if he was going to be used that game... please, throwing some warmups in the BP is not going to blow out his arm... it's when you constantly get up & sit back down, & repeat that cycle over the course of a few innings, that the concern arises.
Or if you try throwing harder than you can, or if you lift too much weight from working out, and from lack of stretching. You can hurt yourself doing anything. Warming up alone, and playing toss is fine.
clemens scratched tonight. igawa starting.
Posted by djsunyc:
clemens scratched tonight. igawa starting.
Sounds like they're in full playoff preparation mode.
I'd be surprised if Clemens makes another start this regular season.
Michael Kay got a bit obnoxious announcing A-Rod's homer. I think he was trying to get his own voice on the Sports Center highlights
What a lackluster game. 11 walks??? Why the heck do you put Karstens in????
Bruney doesn't get anywhere near the playoff roster at this point. I'd rather have Ohlendorf and Farnsworth ahead of him.
I hope Kennedy gets healthy. We're at these 11 pitchers most likely:
Pettitte
Wang
Clemens
Mussina
Hughes
Joba
Rivera
Viz
Villone
Farns
Wildcard- I'd take Britton
I wish we'd seen more of Ohlendorf. Torre keeps saying good things about him, but how is he gonna take him on the postseason roster if he never uses him?
Posted by VDesai:
I hope Kennedy gets healthy. We're at these 11 pitchers most likely:
Pettitte
Wang
Clemens
Mussina
Hughes
Joba
Rivera
Viz
Villone
Farns
Wildcard- I'd take Britton
I wish we'd seen more of Ohlendorf. Torre keeps saying good things about him, but how is he gonna take him on the postseason roster if he never uses him?
I'd trust Ohlendorf more. Other teams haven't seen him and he can get ground balls with his power sinker and he strikes people out too. Britton hasn't done anything to put him on the roster.
What the hell happened? The lady tells me we were up 5-0 and next thing I see, is we lost.
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by VDesai:
I hope Kennedy gets healthy. We're at these 11 pitchers most likely:
Pettitte
Wang
Clemens
Mussina
Hughes
Joba
Rivera
Viz
Villone
Farns
Wildcard- I'd take Britton
I wish we'd seen more of Ohlendorf. Torre keeps saying good things about him, but how is he gonna take him on the postseason roster if he never uses him?
I'd trust Ohlendorf more. Other teams haven't seen him and he can get ground balls with his power sinker and he strikes people out too. Britton hasn't done anything to put him on the roster.
I don't get that logic. What has Ohlendorf done at this point too? My reasoning with Britton is that he had a good year on the major league level last year, a better year in the minors than any of these relievers other than Edwar, and at least ok performance in the major so far.
I like Ohlendorf's stuff a lot too, but he's been hurt all year and generally inconsistent in the minors. And since he's been up, he's rarely gone into games.
looking more and more like edwar won't make the postseason roster - he's been really shaky.
that's why farns is so important for us. to me, he's our 7th inning guy. that's it, no questions asked.
but that 6th/7th inning bridge to joba + mo is gonna be a roller coaster.
how annoying is it AGAIN that they can't score a run with a runner on 3rd with less that 2 outs. they strand that runner ALL THE TIME. that's gonna kill them in the playoffs.
Vizcaino should be our 7th inning guy.
Posted by VDesai:
I hope Kennedy gets healthy. We're at these 11 pitchers most likely:
Pettitte
Wang
Clemens
Mussina
Hughes
Joba
Rivera
Viz
Villone
Farns
Wildcard- I'd take Britton
I wish we'd seen more of Ohlendorf. Torre keeps saying good things about him, but how is he gonna take him on the postseason roster if he never uses him?
Kennedy is key... w/o him, we're stuck w/only Hughes as an option in long relief... no thanks to Britton, i have to agree with isles, i'd rather see Ohly make the roster if Kennedy can't go... what about Veras? he's been throwing well lately & has good velocity on his fastball... still might take Edwar too... he's having a rough stretch right now, but that changeup of his can come in very handy when we're in need of a big strikeout & have a good fastball hitting batter up at the plate.
[Edited by - TMS on 09-26-2007 10:30 AM]
