Yanks looking at Mark DeRosa & Marlon Byrd
i've liked Byrd for a while... called for us to trade for him for a couple years now... i think he'd make an excellent replacement for Melky... that is of course if Johnny Damon refuses to come down on his contract demands... Byrd can play all 3 OF positions so he gives us versatility & he's got a solid ML bat w/some pop... if u wanted u could even platoon him w/Brett Gardner in a lefty-righty switch.
Byrd or Jermaine Dye would be my guys if Damon doesn't chill the fuck out w/his contract demands
btw, getting back on Javy V, dude has a career 10.34 ERA in the postseason, not exactly who u wanna trot out there with the series hanging in the balance.
we coulda got Jon Garland on a 1 year deal without having to give up anything for a lot cheaper than what Javy's making too & he woulda given us the same production... btw, Garland's career postseason ERA? 2.25
regular season, Javy's a career 4.52 ERA pitcher in the AL... Garland's a career 4.42 ERA pitcher in the AL...
Javy's making $11.5 mil this season... we coulda signed up Garland for 1 yr. ~$6-7 mil (that's what he made last season), maybe throw in some incentives if we had to... still overall, Garland's the much more reliable & safe bet.
did we really have to trade Melky & Dunn to get this guy?
I wish we never traded for him to begin with, we shoulda went after Curt Schilling instead, i remember having so many arguments with dudes over that one... i think Cashman's trying to make up for that boneheaded move by getting Nick Johnson & Javy back in pinstripes... all we gotta do now is sign Juan Rivera & Randy Choate & the trade will be like it never happened. 
^ agree about the no-Schill trade... but, remember, the BoSox really wanted Vazquez to and we won out on his services and the Sox "settled" for Schilling
As for Vazquez, he was easily a top-5 NL pitcher last year. Maybe his maturity and a little loss of velocity turned him into a pitcher instead of someone with filthy stuff. I have no problem having our inning-eater be Vazquez, especially when we can go tot he same playoff rotation as last year.
Though, I worry about replacing The Melk Man's clutchness... I thought he was a helluva professional hitter. YOu could tell he picked the big guns brain's... Part of me thinks he could've turned into a more-than-solid, under-the-radar 5 or 6 hitter down the line, a la Juan Rivera
bro, the Sox won their WS that year because of Curt Schilling, make no mistake... getting Javy V instead of Schilling was the biggest mistake Cashman made that year & i said it at the time... i'm not a Cashman hater like some guys are but i'm not afraid of calling him out when he makes a dumb move like these 2 Javy V trades & the Jeff Weaver for Ted Lilly trade, another stroke of brilliance.
telling u right now we gave up Melky, Dunn & a young arm for a 1 year rental of Javy V... bookmark this now & talk to me a year later... we won't offer Javy arbitration after this season is over cuz he'll be his old shaky self pitching in the AL, & he'll end up signing someplace else next year just like Bobby Abreu did & we won't even have any draft picks to show for this trade after it's all said & done... we could not only saved ourselves a few million by signing someone like Jon Garland to a 1 year deal, but we also would have been able to keep Melky & Dunn, to either be a part of next year's team or to use in another trade to address other areas of need, like the bullpen for instance... then we could have used those dollar savings to either re-sign Johnny Damon or to sign a 1 year stopgap like Jermaine Dye or Marlon Byrd.
call me Miss Cleo, cuz that's what i see in my crystal ball my bros... if i'm wrong i'll be the first one to man up about it, trust.
we're pretty much in agreement, especially regarding the past... The lone difference is I think Javy is better today than you do. That said, I wouldn't have made that trade either
i sincerely hope so bro, trust me... i DO NOT wanna be right on this one... seeing the Javy V of old is gonna make me wanna throw a shoe into my flatscreen this season... i hope the season he just had w/the Braves is more the norm than it is an anomaly, but knowing the Braves & how smart they are with player management, they would not have made this trade if they felt Javy V would have a repeat of that type of season.
Not sure what to think about the Javy trade yet. I was a big Melky fan - good D, strong arm, clutch hits...
Vazquez has definitely produced the past few years. I liked him back in 2004 before his nosedive in the second half. It does sort out some of the confusion in the OF. If Gardner can raise his avg a little bit, I'd be fine with him starting and in the 9 slot.
TMS wrote:btw, getting back on Javy V, dude has a career 10.34 ERA in the postseason, not exactly who u wanna trot out there with the series hanging in the balance.
To be fair, we're not bringing him in to be our ace this time around. We don't have to hold our breath in a critical game 6 or 7 wondering if he can come through - we have CC for that.
Man has a jacked up ERA, but that's only from 4 games (only 2 of which were starts).
Take off some of the NY pressure and let the man do his job. Who knows, might work out for us.
MaTT4281 wrote:TMS wrote:btw, getting back on Javy V, dude has a career 10.34 ERA in the postseason, not exactly who u wanna trot out there with the series hanging in the balance.
To be fair, we're not bringing him in to be our ace this time around. We don't have to hold our breath in a critical game 6 or 7 wondering if he can come through - we have CC for that.
Man has a jacked up ERA, but that's only from 4 games (only 2 of which were starts).
Take off some of the NY pressure and let the man do his job. Who knows, might work out for us.
dude, every game in postseason play is critical... if we can't trust him to pitch in a big game he shouldn't be here at all... Cashman said he brought Javy here to give us more depth so we won't necessarily have to go to a 3 man rotation again next year in the playoffs... u watch, that's exactly what we're gonna have to do cuz we won't be able to rely on Javy to come through in big games... unless Joba has a resurgence this year & finally proves he can be the starter the Yankees seem to think he can be, i don't see Javy as part of our postseason plans... or at least i hope he's not... & btw, if u think we can bring him in to pitch relief, think about what happened in '04 when he faced Johnny Damon with the bases juiced.
u can't use the ARod comparison, ARod when right is the best player in the game & had hit well in the postseason before he had that slump... Javy V has always been a trainwreck in the postseason & in some big games in the regular season.
TMS wrote:
dude, every game in postseason play is critical... if we can't trust him to pitch in a big game he shouldn't be here at all... Cashman said he brought Javy here to give us more depth so we won't necessarily have to go to a 3 man rotation again next year in the playoffs... u watch, that's exactly what we're gonna have to do cuz we won't be able to rely on Javy to come through in big games... unless Joba has a resurgence this year & finally proves he can be the starter the Yankees seem to think he can be, i don't see Javy as part of our postseason plans... or at least i hope he's not... & btw, if u think we can bring him in to pitch relief, think about what happened in '04 when he faced Johnny Damon with the bases juiced.u can't use the ARod comparison, ARod when right is the best player in the game & had hit well in the postseason before he had that slump... Javy V has always been a trainwreck in the postseason & in some big games in the regular season.
Not trying to downplay the importance of any post season game, but a game 4 just doesn't carry the same pressure as a game 7, whether you want to go in with that mentality or not. Javy is the 4th pitcher in our rotation, that's a different measuring stick than staff ace, and basically my only point.
I haven't seen enough of the guy outside of 2004 to debate this inside and out. I just can't put any faith in his post season numbers with such a small sample size. He played in 3 post season games with us in 2004, when he was already struggling that back half of the season. He played one more game for the White Sox on '08, and that's it. As far as I'm concerned, he's still unproven.
Javy's here to add depth to our rotation in much more of a support role. The game's a marathon. If he can get us to the home stretch and then let our big guns shoulder the weight, I'll be happy.
if we lose 1 of the first 3 games, a game 4 could prove to be pivotal... this often happens in a short series... in that situation how confident would u be running Javy V out there against the best the AL & NL has to offer?
IMO any pitcher that takes the mound in the postseason is in a critical role, unless he's strictly being used as a mop up guy... even then, he can end up costing us a series, remember how Jeff Weaver came in as a mop up guy in an extra inning game & ended up giving up a huge walk off HR that helped vault the Marlins to win the '03 WS? i know that sorta thing can happen to anyone but IMO Weaver never shoulda been on the postseason roster to begin with, he was just way too unreliable in big spots over the course of the season... from what i've seen out of Javy (& i will give u the fact that it's based on a limited sample), i wouldn't be confident w/him even being on a postseason roster either... Damaso Marte proved me wrong last year so maybe Javy V can prove me wrong this year... trust me there's nothing i enjoy more than admitting being wrong about stuff like this cuz it only means we ended up winning & these guys did their jobs.
Guys,
Relax - this administration has been more right than wrong with respect to talent, and you gotta trust Cash since he has been at the helm. This isn't one of those Tampa initiated transactions and while I liked Melky alot too, there were things about him that drove me nuts (when he was injured in the playoffs and couldn't play cause of his hamstring and was seen dancing around the dugout like a 5 yr old). I was also looking forward to having his arm in LF (Granderson will play center thank you very much).
We have 162 games to see how Javy does, not to mention Philly Blunt and Joba. That gives us ample time to lock in our playoff rotation and you have to believe that one of those three will be a lock to start an important game in the playoffs. If Andy has a similar season to last year, and if we have to go to a 3 man rotation, so be it. But, you have to believe that getting Javy was an admission from management that they would prefer to not have to win in the playoffs with just 3 pitchers, especially since one of those three is an injury risk.
Melky was not that important to our success overall. If he was, they wouldn't have traded him. While I will miss him overall, I'm excited that this team already has a different feel to it than last year's squad. As Yankee fans, we may as well get used to it. Our Core ain't getting any younger and change will be a theme for a while with Jete, Posada, and Mo getting old. Now that will be a sad day - when none of those 3 are in stripes any more.
Happy holidays to all.
TMS wrote:if we lose 1 of the first 3 games, a game 4 could prove to be pivotal... this often happens in a short series... in that situation how confident would u be running Javy V out there against the best the AL & NL has to offer?
dude, calm down. if you are seriously worrying about game 4 being pivotal on december freaking 23rd, you need to just take some deep breaths. what if hughes or joba emerges as a top of the line starter and javy doesn't have to make a start? what if what if what if there are a million things that could happen between now and the playoffs its TEN MONTHS AWAY. (not to mention he'd be lined up against another teams 3rd or 4th starter!)
and backing up even further, you said the arod comparison is invalid b/c arod is the best in the game when he's on. yea, but he also had a lengthy of history of absolutely shytting the bed in the playoffs. vasquez avg. 9 Ks a start for his career, if he got locked in during the postseason he could pitch well. there is so much up in the air, the fact of the matter is we gave up a marginal corner outfielder and got a guy who will throw 200 innings, strike a lot of guys out, and has the potential to be above average. i will take that swap any day of the week. (and please don't retort with some nonsense about jon freaking garland).
what went right last year:
- all our hitters hit their average or better
- our bullpen was awesome
- our starting pitching performed as expected
so.......
you can expect our hitters to perform in the same manner so bringing in a major upgrade in center as well as more speed to the team could change the dynamic in case one or two of our hitters have off years.
the bullpen is a year to year phenomena...so we must be patient with that and see how it shakes out. can't really plan for it.
adding vasquez *improves* our starting pitching as he is infinitely better than gaudin + mitre and maybe even a hughes/chamberlain.
as jusnice said, take a breath...IN CA$H WE TRUST...
BigSm00th wrote:TMS wrote:if we lose 1 of the first 3 games, a game 4 could prove to be pivotal... this often happens in a short series... in that situation how confident would u be running Javy V out there against the best the AL & NL has to offer?
dude, calm down. if you are seriously worrying about game 4 being pivotal on december freaking 23rd, you need to just take some deep breaths. what if hughes or joba emerges as a top of the line starter and javy doesn't have to make a start? what if what if what if there are a million things that could happen between now and the playoffs its TEN MONTHS AWAY. (not to mention he'd be lined up against another teams 3rd or 4th starter!)
and backing up even further, you said the arod comparison is invalid b/c arod is the best in the game when he's on. yea, but he also had a lengthy of history of absolutely shytting the bed in the playoffs. vasquez avg. 9 Ks a start for his career, if he got locked in during the postseason he could pitch well. there is so much up in the air, the fact of the matter is we gave up a marginal corner outfielder and got a guy who will throw 200 innings, strike a lot of guys out, and has the potential to be above average. i will take that swap any day of the week. (and please don't retort with some nonsense about jon freaking garland).
why can't i use Jon Garland as a retort? did u even bother looking up his stats before u made that comment? dude has a better career ERA pitching in the AL than Javy does & a better postseason history by a mile... he's proven & has a championship ring on his finger after having pitched back to back 18 win games for the White Sox... what has Javy V ever proven in his career? that he can strike guys out in the regular season but gets lit up in big moments? yeah, i need to calm down... come on dude, this has nothing to do w/the fact we gave up Melky Cabrera... this is about the fact we could have easily saved money AND assets by signing up someone like Garland who's probably at the very least as good an alternative as Javy is & used those assets to address other needs... u save $4 million by signing someone like Garland & u can use that money towards signing Damon, Dye or Byrd... u save Melky, Dunn & Vizcaino & u can use those assets to trade for something else... Javy Vazquez guys... we talkin' about JAVY VAZQUEZ? what are we talkin' about??? come on man... i ain't a Cashman hater but this was a stupid trade.
I'm much happier with Javy for one year than signing Garland to a multi year deal. Next year we can go after Cliff Lee and Crawford. I'm also good if we don't bring Damon back for 2 years. I would much rather have Crawfor and Lee then Damon and Garland JMHO
the NYT article covering the deal i believe quoted ca$hman in saying garland was looking for a long-term deal. like rookie said, i'd rather have the money to go after lee and crawford in a year then get damon and garland this yr. we need somebody to give us 200 innings, not be a staff ace. vasquez will give us that.
Rookie wrote:I'm much happier with Javy for one year than signing Garland to a multi year deal. Next year we can go after Cliff Lee and Crawford. I'm also good if we don't bring Damon back for 2 years. I would much rather have Crawfor and Lee then Damon and Garland JMHO
who says we won't be able to target Lee & Crawford next year if we signed Garland? Nick Swisher's $10 mil will be coming off the books next year & so will Nick Johnson's $5.5 mil... then u have Andy P who's contract will be expiring also which gives you another $11 mil to work with... for a player like Lee, Beckett or Crawford i can easily see the Steinbrenners expanding the budget by $7-10 million to accomodate them... they went a lot more than that for Teixeira... signing Garland would not have prevented us from targetting any big name guys in 2011, let's be real here.
look, u can be happy w/this trade if u want... i'm not usually comfortable bringing back guys who were a failure the first go around & giving them a second shot, especially when we have to give up young players to do it... hopefully this turns out to be a feel good story like Ruben Sierra & not another bad trade... i'm hoping for the best.
TMS wrote:Rookie wrote:I'm much happier with Javy for one year than signing Garland to a multi year deal. Next year we can go after Cliff Lee and Crawford. I'm also good if we don't bring Damon back for 2 years. I would much rather have Crawfor and Lee then Damon and Garland JMHO
who says we won't be able to target Lee & Crawford next year if we signed Garland? Nick Swisher's $10 mil will be coming off the books next year & so will Nick Johnson's $5.5 mil... then u have Andy P who's contract will be expiring also which gives you another $11 mil to work with... for a player like Lee, Beckett or Crawford i can easily see the Steinbrenners expanding the budget by $7-10 million to accomodate them... they went a lot more than that for Teixeira... signing Garland would not have prevented us from targetting any big name guys in 2011, let's be real here.
look, u can be happy w/this trade if u want... i'm not usually comfortable bringing back guys who were a failure the first go around & giving them a second shot, especially when we have to give up young players to do it... hopefully this turns out to be a feel good story like Ruben Sierra & not another bad trade... i'm hoping for the best.
It's being reported that Nick Johnson" deal includes a 2011 mutual option for at least $5.5 million with possible escalators. Swisher is signed through 2011 with an option for 2012 -"scheduled to make $5.3 million in 2009, $6.75 million in 2010 and $9 million in $2011. His deal also includes a $10.25 million club option for 2012, with a $1 million buyout."
Javy and Petite will come off the books which gives us approx. 20M to sign Crawford and Lee which likely won't get it done.
i was mistaken on Swisher's contract, my bad... read the Cot's contract list wrong.
if u can't get Garland on a 1 year deal, fine go after Jarrod Washburn... another guy who's more proven in the AL & the postseason then Javy V & won't cost u any assets to get... or u can take a flyer on Ben Sheets or Duchscherer, but that's not my ideal option cuz of the injury risk... i just think there were equally capable options out there that wouldn't have cost us any young players to get... i'm just not comfortable w/the idea of Javy pitching in big games down the stretch or in the postseason & definitely don't think it was worth $11.5 mil, Melky, Dunn & Vizcaino to get what he'll bring... the Braves wouldn't have traded him if they thought he would replicate what he did last year guys... this isn't emotional reactionary posting here, i've thought about this trade for days & i still don't like it.
i just hope i'm here a year from now apologizing to Javy like i did to Marte, that's all i gots to say. 
OK, then I won't mention that we still have to deal with Jeter and Rivera's contract extensions
Rookie wrote:OK, then I won't mention that we still have to deal with Jeter and Rivera's contract extensions
those 2 are immaterial, they're not gonna get raises from their current salaries
