Off Topic · Yankees Talk thread (page 41)

and moose did not pick up the team like hughes did. moose gave up 2 more runs in the following 3 innings.

the whole joba thing was blown out of proportion b/c our relievers after moose did not give up a run.

our bats totally dissapointed...that's what cost us the series.

Considering the start of the game- giving up only 2 runs from our relievers for about 7 innings of work was probably as good as you could expect. Moose still kept us in the game for the most part. The bats had plenty of chances to break a big inning.

Bottom line, this team was built on hitting first and foremost. I mean its 9 former or current all-stars in the lineup. If they can't hit Paul Byrd you can't say its anything more than the fact they choked.

This team has played tight for years now. I don't want to put all the blame on Torre, but he manages a tight game and has done so since Zimmer left. They got a real big boost by bringing in the fresh, young guys out there. I think by putting someone like Girardi in there- a smart guy who can relate to players and motivate, it would make as big a difference as anything. He was always a player that everyone on the team respected.

Posted by islesfan:

Arod - Take an extension or leave
Posada - re-sign for 2 years at a reasonable price
Clemens - Gone
Sign an everyday first baseman, defense first
Re-sign Abreu for 2 years
Make Matsui the everday DH and Damon the everyday LF
Get rid of Giambi
Make middle relievers out of some of those good arms in the minors.
Rotation: Wang, Pettitte (if he picks up his option), Hughes, Joba (yes Joba) and Mussina. Kennedy starts year in minors, first to be called up.
Get rid of Farnsworth at any price.

It's still a good core. They just suck in the playoffs. But with Hughes and Joba hopefully becoming legit starters, they can have a solid playoff pitching that they've been missing the last few years. They desperately need an ace. It sure as hell ain't Wang.

If they sign someone like Andruw Jones, it'll be a huge fucking mistake.

Oh, and get a new manager.

they don't have to re-sign Abreu for 2 years, just pick up his option... & there's no way we can unload Giambi or Moose... we're stuck w/those guys regardless... no one else will want them at the money they make.

we need to bring in some BP help, & i'm sure we'll all be hearing Johan Santana or Dontrelle Willis' names being mentioned in trade rumors all through the winter. lots of changes to come boys & girls... i say we need to change the mentality & philosophy of this team... get back to pitching & defense & fundamentals, less of the power hitting lineups we've had the past few years... if that means losing ARod then so be it... we can find other ways to utilize $30 million per season to fill other areas of need i'm sure... i love the guy & would love for him to stay, but if he opts out, forget him & move on i say.

Captain Clutch killed about 3 different rallies this series... i'm highly disappointed in his play... he usually comes up so big in those spots... ARod didn't play up to par either, but in comparison to his past couple series he did a little better... Matsui & Jorge continue to struggle in the postseason... & Wang, wow... who'd a thunk he'd have 2 pathetic outings like this in a row? he really let us down this series.

Posted by islesfan:

As soon as that last out was made, I became a Cleveland Indians fan.

That was an odd feeling?

me too... they played a heckuva series & they deserve to get to the WS this year IMO... i do NOT wanna see the Sux beating up on a weak NL team & being champions again.

Posted by TMS:

me too... they played a heckuva series & they deserve to get to the WS this year IMO... i do NOT wanna see the Sux beating up on a weak NL team & being champions again.

Which brings up an interesting point... the teams that made the playoffs in the NL: Extremely weak. It's kind of shocking how weak the NL actually is.

Yanks options for the bullpen should taken care of internally. They have an unprecedented number of solid major league ready prospects to fill those spots. No more wasting money on the Karsays, Farnsworths, Osunas, Rodriguezes and other inconsistent performers. Maybe you throw some money at JC Romero, but its time to give some of our internal guys a chance to develop.

These guys are all 24-25 and have hit the AA/AAA level already. There's not much developing left to do with them.

Ohlendorf- flashed some good stuff...won't have a spot in the rotation, but could be a plus reliever
Rasner- has been pretty good when given the chance. Has a nice sinker and profiles as a guy who could be a nice regular reliever. Should be healthy.
Britton- Performed well for Baltimore last year, not bad for NYY this year, dominant in AAA. Throws hard- should contribute
Sanchez- Power should be ready by midseason at some point after Tommy John. Maybe the next closer.
Steven White- Solid AAA numbers, won't have a rotation spot and at 25-26 he deserves a chance to at least break into the bullpen based
Tyler Clippard- Needs to get his head on straight again, but he's a solid prospect and could still vie for a rotation spot if not a pen spot.
Chase Wright- Good breaking ball. Might fit best as a lefty reliever
JB Cox- Coming off injury, will need time, but a top notch relief prospect.

And I haven't even gotten to the Marquez' and Horne's of the world who are gonna be ready very soon and are still profile as starting rotation guys.

^ Not to mention that Scott Proctor would've been nice.

what about hitting prospects vdesai? other than tabata (who i believe is years away from contributing in the show), who do the yanks have in the farm system? what is the deal with eric duncan?

1B needs to be shored up. once tino left, that was really the beginning of the end, production there was never quite the same. i love doug's glove but he's not an every day guy, giambi should be bought out, is duncan an every day guy at 1B?

cano obviously at 2, DJ in the hole, and arod presumably at 3rd. i don't mind damon riding out the last 2 years in LF, w/ melky in CF and abreu in RF. i thought the OF production throughout the year was solid, there are + arms in CF and RF, and melky will only get better.

what to do w/ posada? obviously he's a leader but with torre gone and a few abysmal postseasons under his belt, i'd rather start new behind the dish than stay with jorge.

so the offseason looks like it needs to shore up C and 1B. obviously pitching needs to be addressed once everything shakes out. any good FA SP's on the market?

Posted by VDesai:

Yanks options for the bullpen should taken care of internally. They have an unprecedented number of solid major league ready prospects to fill those spots. No more wasting money on the Karsays, Farnsworths, Osunas, Rodriguezes and other inconsistent performers. Maybe you throw some money at JC Romero, but its time to give some of our internal guys a chance to develop.

These guys are all 24-25 and have hit the AA/AAA level already. There's not much developing left to do with them.

Ohlendorf- flashed some good stuff...won't have a spot in the rotation, but could be a plus reliever
Rasner- has been pretty good when given the chance. Has a nice sinker and profiles as a guy who could be a nice regular reliever. Should be healthy.
Britton- Performed well for Baltimore last year, not bad for NYY this year, dominant in AAA. Throws hard- should contribute
Sanchez- Power should be ready by midseason at some point after Tommy John. Maybe the next closer.
Steven White- Solid AAA numbers, won't have a rotation spot and at 25-26 he deserves a chance to at least break into the bullpen based
Tyler Clippard- Needs to get his head on straight again, but he's a solid prospect and could still vie for a rotation spot if not a pen spot.
Chase Wright- Good breaking ball. Might fit best as a lefty reliever
JB Cox- Coming off injury, will need time, but a top notch relief prospect.

And I haven't even gotten to the Marquez' and Horne's of the world who are gonna be ready very soon and are still profile as starting rotation guys.

I really like Ohlendorf. I think he can be a solid reliever for us. He was shaky in the postseason but he was thrown into the fire in the first game to stop the bleeding that Wang caused. He should have never been in the game at that point.

They should have gotten more out of Britton than they did this year. Meaning they should have given him as much of a chance as Bruney got.

Sanchez = next years late season Joba?

They need to see what Wright can do in the bullpen.

Rasner, White and Clippard are tradebait. Don't see then offering much more than a spot start here and there.

Lots of other good arms in their system to see if they can help or be traded for people who can.

i like the idea of consolidating some of the lesser arms in our system for a younger bat.

giambi has just got to go, they have to commit to somebody at first, enough of this platoon nonsense.

Guys, the make up of this team has gotten us a first round exit 3 straight years. time to change, there are no Tino's and Oneals or Brosius on this team and it shows.... We don't need a team full of HR hitters. when we won 4 rings in 5 years from 96-2000, do you know how many 30+ home run hitters were on that team? none from what I recall. The year tino hit 40+homers in 2007 we lost to cleveland in the playoffs...

what we did have were guys who were in their prime, hungry and wanted to battle and win, we also had big game pitchers..

Now we know Hughes and Joba can handle the big lights as can melky and cano who did well. so we go from there. Keep pettite, and wang, Jeter will be back, Keep A-rod and resign posada, and hope Damon is healthy and can return as a table setter..

From there the rest is subject to change... i would not mind seeing us go after the devil rays rocco baldeli, although he seems to get injured a lot, he can play left field, is a good hitter and can run, a gritty player.

Posted by BigSm00th:

i like the idea of consolidating some of the lesser arms in our system for a younger bat.

giambi has just got to go, they have to commit to somebody at first, enough of this platoon nonsense.

devil rays need pitching. I wonder if they would part with carl crawford...

Posted by tkf:

Posted by BigSm00th:

i like the idea of consolidating some of the lesser arms in our system for a younger bat.

giambi has just got to go, they have to commit to somebody at first, enough of this platoon nonsense.

devil rays need pitching. I wonder if they would part with carl crawford...

With Matsui as the DH and Damon the odd man out?

Posted by tkf:

Posted by BigSm00th:

i like the idea of consolidating some of the lesser arms in our system for a younger bat.

giambi has just got to go, they have to commit to somebody at first, enough of this platoon nonsense.

devil rays need pitching. I wonder if they would part with carl crawford...

would never happen.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by tkf:

Posted by BigSm00th:

i like the idea of consolidating some of the lesser arms in our system for a younger bat.

giambi has just got to go, they have to commit to somebody at first, enough of this platoon nonsense.

devil rays need pitching. I wonder if they would part with carl crawford...

With Matsui as the DH and Damon the odd man out?

Damon DH and matsui out..

Posted by BigSm00th:

what about hitting prospects vdesai? other than tabata (who i believe is years away from contributing in the show), who do the yanks have in the farm system? what is the deal with eric duncan?

1B needs to be shored up. once tino left, that was really the beginning of the end, production there was never quite the same. i love doug's glove but he's not an every day guy, giambi should be bought out, is duncan an every day guy at 1B?

cano obviously at 2, DJ in the hole, and arod presumably at 3rd. i don't mind damon riding out the last 2 years in LF, w/ melky in CF and abreu in RF. i thought the OF production throughout the year was solid, there are + arms in CF and RF, and melky will only get better.

what to do w/ posada? obviously he's a leader but with torre gone and a few abysmal postseasons under his belt, i'd rather start new behind the dish than stay with jorge.

so the offseason looks like it needs to shore up C and 1B. obviously pitching needs to be addressed once everything shakes out. any good FA SP's on the market?

Hitters are at least 1 or 2 years away. Austin Jackson is a future star in the OF who broke out last year. He'll probably start in AA or AAA and could be ready by mid-season, definitely by 2009. Keep Abreu in right for one more year. Jose Tabata should also be ready for 2009...he's just a baby still, so we can slow the timetable on him a bit. He had a hand injury this year and I'd be cautious with him.

Otherwise you have Bronson Sardinha and Brett Gardner who are solid 4th OF types that can
run and field and should have a role on the bench next year. Neither might be a starter, but both can play in the majors.

There are some major catching prospects in the lower minors, Cervelli, Montero etc. Big time power guys, but they could be some time away...2-3 years. I think you have to re-sign Posada cause its going to be difficult to find a good bridge.

At 1b I'd have no problem giving Duncan a shot and maybe keeping a vet in reserve...like Doug M or whoever. There's also a guy named Juan Miranda in AA that slowed down at the end of the year, but has a big bat.

One other option would be to try to re-acquire Nick Johnson. I'd love to get Nick the Stick back where he belongs...

forget Nick Johnson... he's as gimpy as they come... no use having a talented 1B on the DL all the time... i'd rather platoon Shelley & Betemit at 1B next season.

Posted by TMS:

forget Nick Johnson... he's as gimpy as they come... no use having a talented 1B on the DL all the time... i'd rather platoon Shelley & Betemit at 1B next season.

If the price is right he's still a guy that can field and has a good bat. Nats have Dmitri Young so they could be willing to part with him. Free agent 1b's mostly suck- no real upgrades from Doug M.

Posted by tkf:

Guys, the make up of this team has gotten us a first round exit 3 straight years. time to change, there are no Tino's and Oneals or Brosius on this team and it shows.... We don't need a team full of HR hitters. when we won 4 rings in 5 years from 96-2000, do you know how many 30+ home run hitters were on that team? none from what I recall. The year tino hit 40+homers in 2007 we lost to cleveland in the playoffs...

what we did have were guys who were in their prime, hungry and wanted to battle and win, we also had big game pitchers..

Now we know Hughes and Joba can handle the big lights as can melky and cano who did well. so we go from there. Keep pettite, and wang, Jeter will be back, Keep A-rod and resign posada, and hope Damon is healthy and can return as a table setter..

From there the rest is subject to change... i would not mind seeing us go after the devil rays rocco baldeli, although he seems to get injured a lot, he can play left field, is a good hitter and can run, a gritty player.

i agree w/all you said, but to be fair we had a balance of young, prime aged & older veteran talent on all those teams that won championships too... Right now, I don't think we're that far off from fielding a championship calibre team... back during the dynasty years, we had a nice balance of young, prime aged & older veteran talent on all those teams that won championships together & pulled for each other... they had older vets like Wade Boggs, Cecil Fielder, Chili Davis, Roger Clemens, etc. that served as mentors to the up & coming young kids, the same as we have now.

i think what's missing is the fiery personalities like Paulie, Leyritz, Boomer & Tino who weren't afraid to kick a few watercoolers & throw a few bats & helmets around when the team was playing flat... we don't have anyone on this team that's willing to do that anymore... they've all taken on the personality of Joe Torre over the years & now everyone is so damn even keeled & passionless, it's hard to know when they're on a 10 game winning streak or a 10 game losing streak... that perfect balance of personalities is sorta missing that element now IMO.

other than that aspect, we need to address the obvious points of need:

1 - starting pitching (will Andy be back? what to do w/Mouse? do we make a play for Johan or D-Train?)

2 - bullpen help (Will the kids in the farm system be ready to be main setup men next season? Sanchez, Jackson, Ohlendorff, Veras, Ramirez, etc. - or do we sign a FA setup man? who's out there?)

3 - getting Mo, Jorge & Andy to come back for next season

4 - bid for ARod or split that money to fill more needs (Lowell, Hunter/Rowand, etc.?)

5 - Will Joe Torre be back? Who will his successor be? are Tony LaRussa or Joe Girardi better options?

[Edited by - TMS on 10-09-2007 2:46 PM]

Posted by TMS:

Posted by tkf:

Guys, the make up of this team has gotten us a first round exit 3 straight years. time to change, there are no Tino's and Oneals or Brosius on this team and it shows.... We don't need a team full of HR hitters. when we won 4 rings in 5 years from 96-2000, do you know how many 30+ home run hitters were on that team? none from what I recall. The year tino hit 40+homers in 2007 we lost to cleveland in the playoffs...

what we did have were guys who were in their prime, hungry and wanted to battle and win, we also had big game pitchers..

Now we know Hughes and Joba can handle the big lights as can melky and cano who did well. so we go from there. Keep pettite, and wang, Jeter will be back, Keep A-rod and resign posada, and hope Damon is healthy and can return as a table setter..

From there the rest is subject to change... i would not mind seeing us go after the devil rays rocco baldeli, although he seems to get injured a lot, he can play left field, is a good hitter and can run, a gritty player.

i agree w/all you said, but to be fair we had a balance of young, prime aged & older veteran talent on all those teams that won championships too... Right now, I don't think we're that far off from fielding a championship calibre team... back during the dynasty years, we had a nice balance of young, prime aged & older veteran talent on all those teams that won championships together & pulled for each other... they had older vets like Wade Boggs, Cecil Fielder, Chili Davis, Roger Clemens, etc. that served as mentors to the up & coming young kids, the same as we have now.

i think what's missing is the fiery personalities like Paulie, Leyritz, Boomer & Tino who weren't afraid to kick a few watercoolers & throw a few bats & helmets around when the team was playing flat... we don't have anyone on this team that's willing to do that anymore... they've all taken on the personality of Joe Torre over the years & now everyone is so damn even keeled & passionless, it's hard to know when they're on a 10 game winning streak or a 10 game losing streak... that perfect balance of personalities is sorta missing that element now IMO.

other than that aspect, we need to address the obvious points of need:

1 - starting pitching (will Andy be back? what to do w/Mouse? do we make a play for Johan or D-Train?)

2 - bullpen help (Will the kids in the farm system be ready to be main setup men next season? Sanchez, Jackson, Ohlendorff, Veras, Ramirez, etc. - or do we sign a FA setup man? who's out there?)

3 - getting Mo, Jorge & Andy to come back for next season

4 - bid for ARod or split that money to fill more needs (Lowell, Hunter/Rowand, etc.?)

5 - Will Joe Torre be back? Who will his successor be? are Tony LaRussa or Joe Girardi better options?

[Edited by - TMS on 10-09-2007 2:46 PM]

good points but we had clemens in his cy young years and won two rings with him, remember that dominant 13k performance in the playoffs vs that mariners team that won 114 games I think...

Wells still had plenty of gas in the tank when we won with him in 98.

Wade boggs was still a legit hitter and guys like cecil and chili davis player leader roles, but those guys could still hit and were not depended upon to carry the load..

right now mussina, clemens are either past their primes or well past their primes, Matusi is on a serious decline, damon was not 100% at all this year and his best years are behind him. it was no suprise our best offensive weapons were cano and melky it seemed...

And yes, we had fiery guys like Oneil and boomer and leyritz, but those guys were in their prime, playing some of their best baseball. Plus you add in that bernie was as great in the postseason for some time also..

Honestly I would love joe back, but maybe it is time for a change, I like giradi with a young pitching staff...

i would love to add johan with joba and hughes, but the price tag in terms of talent will be tremendous.. so I don't think Johan is an option.

We need to balance out the roster with some more versatile hitters, not just sluggers from top to bottom, but guys like Eric byrnes, get me a jimmy rollins type, guys who can hit for extra base hits, spray the ball...