Posted by TMS:
Posted by tkf:
Guys, the make up of this team has gotten us a first round exit 3 straight years. time to change, there are no Tino's and Oneals or Brosius on this team and it shows.... We don't need a team full of HR hitters. when we won 4 rings in 5 years from 96-2000, do you know how many 30+ home run hitters were on that team? none from what I recall. The year tino hit 40+homers in 2007 we lost to cleveland in the playoffs...
what we did have were guys who were in their prime, hungry and wanted to battle and win, we also had big game pitchers..
Now we know Hughes and Joba can handle the big lights as can melky and cano who did well. so we go from there. Keep pettite, and wang, Jeter will be back, Keep A-rod and resign posada, and hope Damon is healthy and can return as a table setter..
From there the rest is subject to change... i would not mind seeing us go after the devil rays rocco baldeli, although he seems to get injured a lot, he can play left field, is a good hitter and can run, a gritty player.
i agree w/all you said, but to be fair we had a balance of young, prime aged & older veteran talent on all those teams that won championships too... Right now, I don't think we're that far off from fielding a championship calibre team... back during the dynasty years, we had a nice balance of young, prime aged & older veteran talent on all those teams that won championships together & pulled for each other... they had older vets like Wade Boggs, Cecil Fielder, Chili Davis, Roger Clemens, etc. that served as mentors to the up & coming young kids, the same as we have now.
i think what's missing is the fiery personalities like Paulie, Leyritz, Boomer & Tino who weren't afraid to kick a few watercoolers & throw a few bats & helmets around when the team was playing flat... we don't have anyone on this team that's willing to do that anymore... they've all taken on the personality of Joe Torre over the years & now everyone is so damn even keeled & passionless, it's hard to know when they're on a 10 game winning streak or a 10 game losing streak... that perfect balance of personalities is sorta missing that element now IMO.
other than that aspect, we need to address the obvious points of need:
1 - starting pitching (will Andy be back? what to do w/Mouse? do we make a play for Johan or D-Train?)
2 - bullpen help (Will the kids in the farm system be ready to be main setup men next season? Sanchez, Jackson, Ohlendorff, Veras, Ramirez, etc. - or do we sign a FA setup man? who's out there?)
3 - getting Mo, Jorge & Andy to come back for next season
4 - bid for ARod or split that money to fill more needs (Lowell, Hunter/Rowand, etc.?)
5 - Will Joe Torre be back? Who will his successor be? are Tony LaRussa or Joe Girardi better options?
[Edited by - TMS on 10-09-2007 2:46 PM]
good points but we had clemens in his cy young years and won two rings with him, remember that dominant 13k performance in the playoffs vs that mariners team that won 114 games I think...
Wells still had plenty of gas in the tank when we won with him in 98.
Wade boggs was still a legit hitter and guys like cecil and chili davis player leader roles, but those guys could still hit and were not depended upon to carry the load..
right now mussina, clemens are either past their primes or well past their primes, Matusi is on a serious decline, damon was not 100% at all this year and his best years are behind him. it was no suprise our best offensive weapons were cano and melky it seemed...
And yes, we had fiery guys like Oneil and boomer and leyritz, but those guys were in their prime, playing some of their best baseball. Plus you add in that bernie was as great in the postseason for some time also..
Honestly I would love joe back, but maybe it is time for a change, I like giradi with a young pitching staff...
i would love to add johan with joba and hughes, but the price tag in terms of talent will be tremendous.. so I don't think Johan is an option.
We need to balance out the roster with some more versatile hitters, not just sluggers from top to bottom, but guys like Eric byrnes, get me a jimmy rollins type, guys who can hit for extra base hits, spray the ball...
having to pitch clemens threw off the playoff rotation.
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by BigSm00th:
i like the idea of consolidating some of the lesser arms in our system for a younger bat.
giambi has just got to go, they have to commit to somebody at first, enough of this platoon nonsense.
devil rays need pitching. I wonder if they would part with carl crawford...
would never happen.
Agreed, but when it comes time to pay him market value, they might be willing to rather than see him leave via free agency. The Rays need pitching and might be willing to part with some of their good position prospects. They're pretty deep with them.
DRays would probably trade Baldelli, but I don't have any interest.
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by BigSm00th:
i like the idea of consolidating some of the lesser arms in our system for a younger bat.
giambi has just got to go, they have to commit to somebody at first, enough of this platoon nonsense.
devil rays need pitching. I wonder if they would part with carl crawford...
would never happen.
Agreed, but when it comes time to pay him market value, they might be willing to rather than see him leave via free agency. The Rays need pitching and might be willing to part with some of their good position prospects. They're pretty deep with them.
I wouldn't give up any of our big 3 prospects though (Hughes, Joba, or Kennedy)
tkf, i like Eric Byrnes a lot, but he's very happy in ARI & just signed an extension... no way we're getting Rollins in any deal unless we give up Cano & 1 of our young pitchers, which ain't happening.
let's just say for argument's sake that ARod opts out & the Yankees decide to pass on bidding for him... what do u think of this:
- sign Mike Lowell (gold glove 3B w/solid righty bat & hardnosed player)
- sign best setup man available
- trade for PIT's Damaso Marte (lefty reliever - 2-0, 2.38 ERA w/51 K's/18 BB in 65 G/45.1 IP - we already had talks earlier this past season but they fell through)
- decline Abreu's option
- sign Aaron Rowand (gold glove CF w/solid righty bat & hardnosed player)
- move Melky to RF
- Matsui becomes fulltime DH
- Damon becomes fulltime LF
- hire Joe Girardi to manage this team (fresh new outlook of young MGR w/past Yankee ties that most of the veterans here are all familiar with)
- re-sign Jorge, Mariano & Jose Molina & convince Andy P to come back
Why decline Abreu and pay a lot of money Rowand? Yanks have a couple top notch OF prospects coming in 2009 (Tabata and Jackson). I don't want Rowand blocking them. Abreu would be the perfect bridge for a year (more consistent hitter than Rowand- who seems to throw in a poor year every now and again), and I have no problem with Melky in center.
Posted by VDesai:
Why decline Abreu and pay a lot of money Rowand? Yanks have a couple top notch OF prospects coming in 2009 (Tabata and Jackson). I don't want Rowand blocking them. Abreu would be the perfect bridge for a year (more consistent hitter than Rowand- who seems to throw in a poor year every now and again), and I have no problem with Melky in center.
Tabata's only 19... he won't be ready for this level til 2010 in all likelhood... by that time Damon & Matsui's contract will be expiring & you can still deal Rowand if you must... Rowand will probably come at about $11 mil per on average, as opposed to Abreu's $16 mil option IMO... Rowand is not going to be blocking any top notch level prospects, trust me... i have no problem w/Melky in CF either, but this is about upgrading our OF offense & focusing on pitching & defense.
LINEUP:
LF - Damon
SS - Jeter
2B - Cano
3B - Lowell
DH - Matsui
C - Jorge
CF - Rowand
1B - Duncan / Betemit platoon
RF - Melky
much less of a power hitting lineup, more of a well balanced line drives type lineup... no one relying on any 1 player to carry the team
ROTATION:
Joba R
Andy L
Wang R
Hughes R
Kennedy R
I'd hate committing double digit millions per year to a player who was as crappy as Rowand was in 2005 and 2006. Something is just fishy about that guy.
Also while Tabata is 19 he already hit high A ball. Jackson got a cup of coffee in AAA this year. If Tabata gets healthy and Jackson continues on the pace he hit from the summer on last year they could be coming quick.
Posted by VDesai:
I'd hate committing double digit millions per year to a player who was as crappy as Rowand was in 2005 and 2006. Something is just fishy about that guy.
that's pretty much the going rate these days for players like Rowand & Byrnes... Rowand's only 30, so it's not like you're committing longterm to a past his prime veteran... he will garner a 4 year deal at ~$36-40 mil IMHO... plus the market price is only going up for players in their prime hitting free agency, so by 2010 Rowand's contract wouldn't look so bad in comparison
it's a better option than going after Torii Hunter or Andruw Jones at the ridiculous dollars their agents will be seeking IMO, & it upgrades our OF defense tremendously
[Edited by - TMS on 10-09-2007 6:21 PM]
The free agent market is weak this year. I like Rowand but there's no way I give him a big contract for multiple years. He had a nice year but when he does it in his walk year and has never done that well before, you have to question that. Big time. In Yankee Stadium (Rowand bats righty), instead of that bandbox in Philly, he's about a .280 18HR 80RBI kind of player. That's pretty close to what Melky already is. Rowand is better than Melky but not enough to sign him to a large multiyear deal. Does anybody really want him blocking either Tabata or Jackson in 2 years or being on the team when a top free agent OFer becomes available?
That's what makes Abreu so attractive. He only has an option year and they can let him walk after next year. They can also let Matsui walk after next year, I believe, and Damon will only have 1 more year to go on his deal. Next offseason is when they should look to make changes in the OF. Next year they already have 4 OFers on the books if they want.
Posted by TMS:
tkf, i like Eric Byrnes a lot, but he's very happy in ARI & just signed an extension... no way we're getting Rollins in any deal unless we give up Cano & 1 of our young pitchers, which ain't happening.
let's just say for argument's sake that ARod opts out & the Yankees decide to pass on bidding for him... what do u think of this:
- sign Mike Lowell (gold glove 3B w/solid righty bat & hardnosed player)
- sign best setup man available
- trade for PIT's Damaso Marte (lefty reliever - 2-0, 2.38 ERA w/51 K's/18 BB in 65 G/45.1 IP - we already had talks earlier this past season but they fell through)
- decline Abreu's option
- sign Aaron Rowand (gold glove CF w/solid righty bat & hardnosed player)
- move Melky to RF
- Matsui becomes fulltime DH
- Damon becomes fulltime LF
- hire Joe Girardi to manage this team (fresh new outlook of young MGR w/past Yankee ties that most of the veterans here are all familiar with)
- re-sign Jorge, Mariano & Jose Molina & convince Andy P to come back
Best idea I have heard so far. I was just mentioning byrnes and rollins moreso for their style of play, I was aware burns was signed and rollins is going nowhere of course, but your post is on the money. One thing tho. isn't rowand signed through 2008? if not, I would not mind rowand. he melky and damon in the outfield is great. Since we are stuck with matsui Dh him.. I hate to lose bobby but at 16 mil we can do better and rowand could probably give you 16 homers in a season I am sure... Not bad at all.. Not bad..... good post..
Posted by islesfan:
The free agent market is weak this year. I like Rowand but there's no way I give him a big contract for multiple years. He had a nice year but when he does it in his walk year and has never done that well before, you have to question that. Big time. In Yankee Stadium (Rowand bats righty), instead of that bandbox in Philly, he's about a .280 18HR 80RBI kind of player. That's pretty close to what Melky already is. Rowand is better than Melky but not enough to sign him to a large multiyear deal. Does anybody really want him blocking either Tabata or Jackson in 2 years or being on the team when a top free agent OFer becomes available?
That's what makes Abreu so attractive. He only has an option year and they can let him walk after next year. They can also let Matsui walk after next year, I believe, and Damon will only have 1 more year to go on his deal. Next offseason is when they should look to make changes in the OF. Next year they already have 4 OFers on the books if they want.
that is another good point, but one thing I want to mention, is that with the yankees opening a new stadium, they are going to need a marque name, that is why I don't see A-Rod leaving. Now back to rowand, I do like him, but your points are valid about he and bobby abreu, but another option may e baldeli, but this cat stays hurt. I had him on my fantasy team, he went down the first month with a hamstring injury and missed the whole damn year!!!! LOL.. but the kid has talent, and if healthy, a breakout year for him is not out of the question..
A-Rod is finished!!! Four playoffs in a row and he's a complete failure. I would hate to see Torre go. We need young starting pitching bad. But A-Rod is a phony. He beat the crap out of us with his big time clutch home runs, he couldn't do a damn for us and now that he's going to be leaving, I'm positive he'll be beating the shit out of us again, just to show how wrong we where for not believing in him. He sucks!!!
Posted by tkf:
Posted by islesfan:
The free agent market is weak this year. I like Rowand but there's no way I give him a big contract for multiple years. He had a nice year but when he does it in his walk year and has never done that well before, you have to question that. Big time. In Yankee Stadium (Rowand bats righty), instead of that bandbox in Philly, he's about a .280 18HR 80RBI kind of player. That's pretty close to what Melky already is. Rowand is better than Melky but not enough to sign him to a large multiyear deal. Does anybody really want him blocking either Tabata or Jackson in 2 years or being on the team when a top free agent OFer becomes available?
That's what makes Abreu so attractive. He only has an option year and they can let him walk after next year. They can also let Matsui walk after next year, I believe, and Damon will only have 1 more year to go on his deal. Next offseason is when they should look to make changes in the OF. Next year they already have 4 OFers on the books if they want.
that is another good point, but one thing I want to mention, is that with the yankees opening a new stadium, they are going to need a marque name, that is why I don't see A-Rod leaving. Now back to rowand, I do like him, but your points are valid about he and bobby abreu, but another option may e baldeli, but this cat stays hurt. I had him on my fantasy team, he went down the first month with a hamstring injury and missed the whole damn year!!!! LOL.. but the kid has talent, and if healthy, a breakout year for him is not out of the question..
if ARod opts out, he's a goner for sure, you can bet on that... so unless he's willing to sign an extension to his existing contract, the Yankees have to figure out an alternative plan... my bet is they'd go fullbore on trying to get their hands on Johan Santana & Mark Texeiria (Mattingly was his idol growing up) for the '09 inaugural season if ARod were to leave
Posted by tkf:
Posted by TMS:
tkf, i like Eric Byrnes a lot, but he's very happy in ARI & just signed an extension... no way we're getting Rollins in any deal unless we give up Cano & 1 of our young pitchers, which ain't happening.
let's just say for argument's sake that ARod opts out & the Yankees decide to pass on bidding for him... what do u think of this:
- sign Mike Lowell (gold glove 3B w/solid righty bat & hardnosed player)
- sign best setup man available
- trade for PIT's Damaso Marte (lefty reliever - 2-0, 2.38 ERA w/51 K's/18 BB in 65 G/45.1 IP - we already had talks earlier this past season but they fell through)
- decline Abreu's option
- sign Aaron Rowand (gold glove CF w/solid righty bat & hardnosed player)
- move Melky to RF
- Matsui becomes fulltime DH
- Damon becomes fulltime LF
- hire Joe Girardi to manage this team (fresh new outlook of young MGR w/past Yankee ties that most of the veterans here are all familiar with)
- re-sign Jorge, Mariano & Jose Molina & convince Andy P to come back
Best idea I have heard so far. I was just mentioning byrnes and rollins moreso for their style of play, I was aware burns was signed and rollins is going nowhere of course, but your post is on the money. One thing tho. isn't rowand signed through 2008? if not, I would not mind rowand. he melky and damon in the outfield is great. Since we are stuck with matsui Dh him.. I hate to lose bobby but at 16 mil we can do better and rowand could probably give you 16 homers in a season I am sure... Not bad at all.. Not bad..... good post..
as far as i'm aware, Rowand is a FA this offseason... he'd probably look to sign a 3-4 yr deal at about $9-10 mil per i'm guessing... the one bad thing about my lineup above is there's much less team speed w/ARod & Abreu gone & replacing them w/Lowell & Rowand, plus the obvious loss of a big bopper bat in the heart of the lineup... i don't have any expectation for Giambi to ever return to form, but he's gonna be here regardless next year so you'd have to hope for the best... maybe we oughta send a shipment of HGH over to his place over the winter so he can get an early start on his offseason conditioning?
Posted by 4949:
A-Rod is finished!!! Four playoffs in a row and he's a complete failure. I would hate to see Torre go. We need young starting pitching bad. But A-Rod is a phony. He beat the crap out of us with his big time clutch home runs, he couldn't do a damn for us and now that he's going to be leaving, I'm positive he'll be beating the shit out of us again, just to show how wrong we where for not believing in him. He sucks!!!
A-Rod hit OK in the post-season this year. Jeter, Matsui, and Posada were the ones who killed the Yankees, especially Jeter's 3 double plays.
ARod won't be going anywhere. Feel free to continue to blame him for global warming...
You think Lowell would move to 1st base even if we kept A-Rod? I'd let to get him on our team regardless of what we do with A-Rod.
From the genius that is Frank Isola:
If you want to blame anybody for the Yankees failure to win a World Series over the past seven years look no further than the Knicks. Starting in 2001, the Knicks have yet to produce a playoff series win. During that the same stretch, the Yankees have fallen short of winning a title.
Instead of pointing the finger of blame at Joe Torre, Brian Cashman, Jeter, A-Rod, Clemens or Mo, I'm blaming Jeff Van Gundy, Don Chaney, Lenny Wilkens, Larry Brown, Isiah Thomas, Scott Layden, Stephon Marbury and Eddy Curry.
When the Yankees won in 1996, the Knicks were playing an exhibition game in San Antonio as the final out of the series was being made. Afterwards, every player was genuinely excited about having a championship team in New York. I always remember Charles Oakley saying, "We owe New York a title. The Yankees won and now it's our turn."
