Off Topic · Yankees Talk thread (page 449)
VDesai wrote:I don't want Werth or Crawford. I like the way our OF is constituted with Gardner, Granderson and Swisher. Our defense is good and I think each brings something unique to the table in the lineup. I don't see Werth as an upgrade to Swish and I don't think Crawford is worth the dough to replace Gardner. What we need to do offensively is bring up Jesus Montero. Montero is going to be an all star power hitter. Right now I'd platoon him at catcher and DH with Posada. He would be a huge bat to add to the lineup. Hopefully Jeter bounces back because we're gonna re-sign him and he's gonna take a spot on the roster.The focus should be on starting pitching because we've once again seen that shutdown starting pitching is what is winning short playoff series (you still need great hitting to dominate the regular season, butThe SF Giants lineup is awful- and look at them. They nearly missed the playoffs but now you have to favor them to win it all). Adding Cliff Lee would be huge, but we can't rely on being able to get him. Bringing back Andy Pettitte would be huge because even though he's old he's probably coming off his best American league season.
And we really need more depth in the pen. Robertson has proven himself to be too inconsistent and streaky. Wood needs to come back. They need another lefty. A healthy Aceves would be great too. Still need another power arm IMO and maybe a sinker ball thrower who's durable. I'd bring Mo back on an infinite contract, but I really hope he's not gonna consider retiring....
our offense was totally anemic in the ALCS... we got shut down by a tough lefty starter & never recovered... Werth brings you a proven big game bat in the lineup... i wouldn't rely on some unproven rookie like Montero to be the lone offensive addition to this team next year... Montero will get his looks, i think that goes w/o saying, but he is at best a plan B or C option at this point... we need a better contingency plan in place if we expect to win another championship next season... you can play Werth in RF at YS & DH him in some games as well, maybe move Swish over to LF in some games when facing tough lefty pitching... i think Werth is a perfect fit for this lineup.
the focus absolutely should be on the starting rotation, i think that's definitely paramount... Yankees need to sign Cliff Lee at all costs... a proven postseason dominant ace like that can make or break any short series... you have that guy & CC anchoring our rotation for the next several years & it will equal multiple championships when you mix in this potent lineup & Mo.
bullpen help is also needed but the return of Aceves should relieve some of the middle relief weakness we had this year... & we need to add another lefty situational guy.
nyk4ever wrote:i absolutely love swisher and the way he carries himself, but his postseason track-record leaves alot to be desired. i know swish is great in the clubhouse, but werth is a proven post-season player and kinda carries himself the same way that swisher does. i wouldn't be mad if we swapped them.
Werth didn't exactly hit well in the post-season either. Swisher had plenty of injuries. I'd rather have the switch hitter. I love Swish and don't want to trade him for anyone unless it's part of getting a superstar pitcher or a truly superstar hitter, and we're not likely to get that kind of player through trades anyway.
Bonn1997 wrote:nyk4ever wrote:i absolutely love swisher and the way he carries himself, but his postseason track-record leaves alot to be desired. i know swish is great in the clubhouse, but werth is a proven post-season player and kinda carries himself the same way that swisher does. i wouldn't be mad if we swapped them.
Werth didn't exactly hit well in the post-season either. Swisher had plenty of injuries. I'd rather have the switch hitter. I love Swish and don't want to trade him for anyone unless it's part of getting a superstar pitcher or a truly superstar hitter, and we're not likely to get that kind of player through trades anyway.
we'll just conviniently ignore his career 13hr/26rbi .987ops postseason career
nyk4ever wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:nyk4ever wrote:i absolutely love swisher and the way he carries himself, but his postseason track-record leaves alot to be desired. i know swish is great in the clubhouse, but werth is a proven post-season player and kinda carries himself the same way that swisher does. i wouldn't be mad if we swapped them.
Werth didn't exactly hit well in the post-season either. Swisher had plenty of injuries. I'd rather have the switch hitter. I love Swish and don't want to trade him for anyone unless it's part of getting a superstar pitcher or a truly superstar hitter, and we're not likely to get that kind of player through trades anyway.we'll just conviniently ignore his career 13hr/26rbi .987ops postseason career
Jason Werth is 1 of the most dangerous hitters in postseason history... i wouldn't trade Swish either but you can easily mix in Werth into this lineup next year... useless scrubs like Lance Berkman & Nick Johnson will be gone anyways.
nyk4ever wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:nyk4ever wrote:i absolutely love swisher and the way he carries himself, but his postseason track-record leaves alot to be desired. i know swish is great in the clubhouse, but werth is a proven post-season player and kinda carries himself the same way that swisher does. i wouldn't be mad if we swapped them.
Werth didn't exactly hit well in the post-season either. Swisher had plenty of injuries. I'd rather have the switch hitter. I love Swish and don't want to trade him for anyone unless it's part of getting a superstar pitcher or a truly superstar hitter, and we're not likely to get that kind of player through trades anyway.we'll just conviniently ignore his career 13hr/26rbi .987ops postseason career
Well I didn't know those stats. Regardless, post-season stats are based on a small sample. I would almost never use them in an argument for or against a trade. It would have to be a really big sample--comparable to at least half a season's worth to get my attention. Then you still have to take into account if the player was playing injured like Swisher was.
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/c...
This part caught me by surprise:
Plus, over the past four years, his supersized body has been asked to put out supersized effort. Since 2007, no pitcher in baseball has thrown as many innings, nearly 1,000, nor thrown as many pitches, a whopping 15,736, as Sabathia. (His nearest competitors in innings pitched, Roy Halladay and Felix Hernandez, threw 1,600 and 2,200 fewer pitches, respectively, over the same period).
Bonn1997 wrote:CC is going to have knee surgery
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/c...This part caught me by surprise:
Plus, over the past four years, his supersized body has been asked to put out supersized effort. Since 2007, no pitcher in baseball has thrown as many innings, nearly 1,000, nor thrown as many pitches, a whopping 15,736, as Sabathia. (His nearest competitors in innings pitched, Roy Halladay and Felix Hernandez, threw 1,600 and 2,200 fewer pitches, respectively, over the same period).
Such a big body and heavy man. Knee and back and ankle injuries are bound to happen. Doesn't surprise me at all. I am surprised he's worked so hard and lasted so long.
Anyway, SF Giants win, basically on the strength of starting pitching alone. Gotta develop our own Lincecum, Cain, Sanchez and Bumgarner.
The consensus among the Yankees' high command is that Montero who turns 21 on Nov. 28 - is ready to assume the starting catcher's job, according to a source with knowledge of the team's thinking.Montero's future was among the topics of discussion during the Yankee meetings at the Stadium over the past two days, with Lee and the free-agent and trade markets dominating the conversation.
Montero's defense has been scrutinized, but team brass believes he made enough strides this season to assume the bulk of the workload in 2011.
He will likely be given the chance to win the starting job during spring training, turning over a position that has belonged to Jorge Posada since 1998. The front office believes that Montero is already a better defensive catcher than the 39-year-old Posada, who has struggled behind the plate - and to stay healthy.
If Montero comes through, Posada would likely be shifted to the designated hitter spot, with some backup catching duties mixed in.
The plan would be for Montero to catch roughly 100 games, said a source, with Posada and Francisco Cervelli sharing the rest of the duties. Austin Romine, the Yank's other blue-chip catching prospect, would start at Triple-A, potentially taking over Cervelli's spot by midseason if he shows he is ready.
Montero continued his climb through the system in 2010, batting .289 with 21 home runs and 75 RBI in 123 games with Triple-A Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. In three full minor-league seasons, he has a .297 average, 55 home runs and 232 RBI.
Interesting news. Montero had a slow start in AAA but still finished with strong numbers. He's one of the top prospects in baseball. I recall reading his catching was subpar, so I'm not sure if he is an every day catcher just yet. Still, this likely means Gardner will be the every day LF unless they sign Crawford. (I had been hoping they'd sign Adam Dunn; I think the lineup could use another big bat).
Posada's last year as a Yank and then the reigns get passed to Montero. Just like Girardi was ushered out with Posada. Excited to see Montero, the plan should be a Cano/Montero 3/4 from like 2012-2020.
This is reporters interviewing Chan Ho Park after Park had an awful debut and a better second performance.
Reporters asked him what the difference was in his second game:
Calculating the Value of Jeter’s Legacy
By RICHARD SANDOMIR
Ben Solomon for The New York Times
They built a new stadium to resemble their old one and packed it with enough reminders of their past to make it a museum. There might not be a glossy new stadium without the most recent success of the Yankees since the mid-1990s — an era personified by Derek Jeter. Jeter or Mariano Rivera will most likely be the first player on the current roster to have his number retired and to receive a plaque in Monument Park.
Going into his 16th full season, he has played for no other major league team, which puts him in a revered class with seven Yankees Hall of Famers, as well as Thurman Munson and Don Mattingly, his predecessors as team captain. It would be hard to think of Jeter (or Mickey Mantle and Joe DiMaggio before him), signing with another team and suiting up in the visitors’ clubhouse.
For the current generation of Yankees fans, he is the equivalent of other Yankees-for-life. Albert Pujols will have a similar impact in St. Louis if he stays, as Stan Musial did.
Legendary status can result from attachments to players who remain with one team for a decade or more, like Pee Wee Reese and Jackie Robinson in Brooklyn, Ted Williams in Boston, Brooks Robinson in Baltimore, Ernie Banks in Chicago, Al Kaline in Detroit and Robin Yount in Milwaukee.
A legacy like Jeter’s is easy to assess but up to the Yankees to set a value on. And because of the Yankees’ wealth, they can afford to retain him at a steep price beyond his prime.
Glenn Stout, the author of “Yankees Century: 100 Years of New York Yankees Baseball,” wrote in an e-mail: “If he fails to perform, what’s another $10 million a year, particularly when you can give Jeter some significant measure of credit for putting the Yankees in such a strong financial position?”
So does sentiment for his flip toss to throw out Jeremy Giambi at the plate in the 2001 playoffs trump financial pragmatism?
Do the Yankees reward a past filled with clutch hitting and hope for good, if not great, play in the future? At 36, is Jeter worth as much in 2011 and 2012 as he was last season when he was paid $21 million, yet batted 44 points below his career average and showed limited range at shortstop?
Vince Gennaro, who consults on strategy to several major league teams, said, “As a nameless, faceless shortstop, I have him worth $10 million to $11 million, but as Derek Jeter, I have him worth about $20 million.”
In 2011, Gennaro said, a little more than half of that value would be as a performer, but in future seasons “his performance value goes down as his marquee value ascends.”
“In reality,” he added, “his value as a brand-builder will grow long after his skills diminish.”
Jeter holds the Yankees’ franchise record for hits and should eclipse Mantle’s team record for most games sometime this season. He is 74 hits from 3,000. He is a team leader who never gets in trouble in an era rife with athlete misbehavior and discontent. And he is the most marketable athlete in New York — as safe for an advertiser to use as a deceased icon like Gehrig or Babe Ruth.
The precise question — how much to pay a Yankee-for-life and for how long — has only rarely been faced by the Yankees, and never at such financial stakes as Jeter. And it will be done in tandem. Rivera, whose future is less certain at nearly 41 years old, will also test the Yankees’ penchant for historic preservation.
DiMaggio and Mantle were among the highest-paid players of their eras, but the reserve clause gave the Yankees enormous leverage in salary talks. Munson died in a plane crash in 1979 before he and the principal owner George Steinbrenner could joust over free-agent riches. And Mattingly’s chronically bad back shortened his career at age 34 when his salary had peaked at $4.4 million.
The Yankees’ love of continuity that is embodied in legacy players like Jeter competes with their parallel need to have continuity and ticker-tape parades in October. They have been the most aggressive pursuers of free agents, building record payrolls with the salaries of great and (not-so great) hired guns; but only some, like Reggie Jackson, become essential pieces of the Yankees fabric.
Then there is Bernie Williams, who had a very good 16-year career with the Yankees (but was once tempted to leave for Boston) yet played no further when he was not offered a guaranteed contract before the 2007 season.
The Yankees are no doubt calculating that Jeter’s marquee value, even as a player past his best years, is far greater than Williams’s was. And they will certainly look at the financial benefits he is capable of producing as he chases his 3,000th hit or simply shows up for work every day at shortstop or third base if Alex Rodriguez eventually becomes a full time designated hitter.
“Think of the thousands of families who’ll take their kids to his farewell tour,” Gennaro said. “Maybe they take their youngest kid so that in 50 years he can say, ‘I saw Derek Jeter play.’ ”
A contract to remain a Yankee in perpetuity will eventually bestow on Jeter the status once enjoyed by Mantle and DiMaggio as the most lionized living Yankees, a role that is now played by Yogi Berra.
“What they’ll be paying for is a licensing deal,” said John Thorn, a baseball historian. “They will be paying for a brand that they have great equity in — equity that would be destroyed if he plays in Milwaukee next year.”
Another sticky situation when it comes to this is Jeter playing shortstop. I wonder if they are even going to consider talking about making him an outfielder or a DH in the long run and I'm not sure how the outfield part will even work, considering we are already backed up there. Jeter had better be busting his ars to have as good a season as he possibly can, this off season.
Not that I think Jeter does anything besides bust his ars.
Juan Miranda traded to ARI for a righty pitching prospect