Off Topic · Yankees Talk thread (page 460)
Could Chamberlain be traded? According to Brian Costello of the one more shot.
Marchand writes an open letter to GM Brian Cashman on the idea, noting that Chamberlain's 4.18 ERA in those 43 outings is better than the 4.50 ERA put up by Ivan Nova in seven starts a year ago, and the career ERA over five by Sergio Mitre, who appear to be the No. 4 and 5 starters unless other arms are added to the mix.
Marchand points out that moving Chamberlain back to the rotation could kill two birds with one stone. "Right now, Chamberlain's trade value is low," Marchand wrote. "The only way to increase that is to put him in a more important role. So not only could he solve your biggest problem, he could be used to address your next one. Seems like a win-win."
TMS wrote:for anyone concerned about the talk about Soriano's attitude or his alleged unwillingness to take the ball every game, the Rays' pitching coach thinks the Yankees made a great signing:When Rafael Soriano showed up for the first day of spring training last season, the Tampa Bay Rays had no idea what to expect. They knew him from afar, a 6-1, 220-pound righthander with a menacing stare and a mid-90s fastball that helped him pile up saves with the Atlanta Braves. But neither manager Joe Maddon nor anyone else on his coaching staff really knew their new closer.He didn't make a good first impression.
"He came in and told us what he wanted to do to get ready for the season and how he wanted to be used during it," Rays pitching coach Jim Hickey told the Daily News in a telephone interview Friday. "That usually goes over like a lead balloon."
It didn't take long for Soriano to change everyone's take. He seemed to be conserving himself physically in the first weeks of spring training, but it turned out to be a prelude to a season where he was arguably the most reliable, durable and effective finisher in baseball. Soriano was 'lights out' from Opening Day through the end of the season. He had a 3-2 record with 45 saves in 48 opportunities and posted a stunning 1.73 ERA over 64 appearances as the Rays won the AL East.
"It turned out he knew exactly what he needed to be the most effective player he could be," Hickey said. "He was the consummate pro. He took the ball every time he was asked, pitched well almost every single time we called on him and on days when I expected he would tell me he couldn't pitch he almost always said ‘whatever you need from me today.'
"I wish we were the ones signed up for three more years with him."
....
"I know people may wonder about how he will do going back to not finishing games, but I don't think there's any reason to think he will be less effective," Hickey said. "He's getting the ball to Mariano Rivera for the ninth inning. That's the same as pitching to end the game. At least that's how it's been with Rivera for the last 15 years."
....
There are some negative perceptions of Soriano in baseball, that he won't pitch through pain and that he resented being asked to pitch in non-save situations. Hickey saw none of it during their one year together. "I might have learned something else were there more adversity," he said, "but there never was any. It was smooth sailing through the whole season."
Soriano wanted a big-money deal this offseason, which may be the reason he fired agent Peter Greenberg in favor of Scott Boras. It seemed harsh treatment after Greenberg had taken the bold gamble that resulted in a closing role on a contending team with a $7.25 million contract. The Braves had signed Billy Wagner to close in 2010, but offered Soriano salary arbitration to ensure they'd get draft picks when he signed elsewhere; Greenberg had Soriano accept the offer so they could orchestrate the trade to the Rays.
But it's Soriano's pitching that is most important to the Yankees and their fans, and on that note he excels. Soriano throws two- and four-seam fastballs and mixes them with a cutter, a slider and an occasional changeup.
"He's not a 'stuff guy' even though he has great stuff and his career isn't defined by one incredible pitch that he throws," Hickey said. "He knows how to pitch, how to use all his pitches, and he is incredible at reading the hitters."Hickey said it was not uncommon last season for Soriano to show up in the dugout during one of the early innings to point out that certain hitters were looking for specific pitches and to suggest what they might be vulnerable against.
"How many closers do things like that?" Hickey asked. "But that's just Soriano. He was a great teammate to our guys.
"Now he's pitching in our division against us. I can only hope he struggles."
concerning the draft pick we gave up to sign Soriano:As for losing the draft pick and giving Soriano three years when he seemingly didn't have a market, Cashman will get that draft pick back if Soriano chooses to exercise the opt out in any of the three years of the deal, and there are no no-trade clauses in the contract, which means the Yankees can deal him anywhere.Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2011/01/15/2011-01-15_rafael_soriano_is_new_setup_man_for_yankees_but_there_are_concerns_about_his_pri.html#ixzz1BE8ksPeX
awesome stuff! love soriano already. yanks are gonna have a great pen!
fact.
TMS wrote:VDesai wrote:TMS wrote:BigSm00th wrote:Des i agree about moving joba back into the rotation. Theres really no need for him in the bullpen and with seemingly no plan re: a 5th starter maybe this is what they are thinking. Either move him or trade him but joba in the pen makes zero sensewith the loss of Aceves we will need Joba to provide depth in the pen... Joba did not work out well as a starting pitcher... Mitre posted better numbers as a spot starter last year... he should have just been left to be the setup guy from the start but the Yankees tried to get cute w/his development & it came to bite us in the ass... i think it's time to stop jerking this guy around & let him focus on being the best relief pitcher he can be... otherwise trade him for a player that can fill the starter's role.
I don't agree that he failed as a starter. By that same logic, Hughes would've been considered a failure as a starter and better as a reliever too. I think in generalyou can't expect a young pitcher to be lights out right away- Joba came up with 3-4 pitches he could use and still could be a good starter. Its not like he's tried starting for 4 years and failed- he only has 43 starts.
His main problem right now is his fastball command which hurt him in the relief role last year at times too. Both he and Hughes still have a tendency to try and make a perfect pitch rather than agressively go after batters with the fastball. When both Hughes and Joba focused on doing that as relievers the results were much, much better. CC Sabathia is a guy who struggled with that a bit the first 4-5 years of his career too, but now he challenges hitters all the time. As a result you've seen his walks per innings pitched number decline signifcantly and he's one of the best pitchers in the league. When your velocity and movement is that good you can't be afraid of batters making contact because more often than not it will be weak contact, which equals outs, foul balls and getting ahead in counts...
But anyway, if the Yanks brass really believes Joba can't pitch more confidently with better command than they absolutely have to move him. There is no way you take a talented piece like that and make him a long reliever. If that is his role, he is much, much more valuable in a trade. IMO, he's got to be in the rotation or moved for a piece that can help us more.
the less exposure we give him as a starting pitcher right now, the better... let him get his command & velocity right before he has to worry about game planning for starts... if he can start off the season & put up a good ERA in a late inning relief role, he will still attract attention from other teams.
the yanks have always had him in the role that maximized his value FOR THE CURRENT TEAM. now, w/ rivera/soriano/robertson AND 2 LOOGYs (logan & feliciano), with feliciano being an absolute work horse. also you would presumably have whoever joba beat out for the 4th or 5th spot (mitre, nova) as a mop up guy, and there are always other minor leaguers/guys on the cheap (like aceves a few yrs ago).
don't see how the yanks don't move him to SP one more time. he was a SP in college and the minors, he is a 4 pitch pitcher who has shown he has dominant stuff. its clearly an issue of mentality. take the innings limit off, take off the kiddie gloves, and tell him he has one chance to make the club and its as either the 4th or 5th starter.
i honestly don't undestand how you CANT do this if pettitte doesn't come back. if pettitte does come back, fine, let mitre or nova take the 5 spot but if we need 2 SPs its worth it -- he has the highest ceiling of the bunch BY FAR.
BigSm00th wrote:joba as 5th starter with no innings limit > nova > mitrefact.
I'd give it a try.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=...
Yankees thought about bringing back PavanoBy Sunil Joshi / MLB.com | 01/19/11 4:47 PM EST
How close was Carl Pavano to returning to the Yankees' starting rotation?
General manager Brian Cashman said on Wednesday that he had conversations with Pavano's agent, Tom O'Connell, about bringing the right-hander back to the Bronx. Ultimately, those talks may have proved fruitless, as Pavano is reportedly nearing a deal to return to the Twins.
"I've always felt Pav could pitch here," Cashman said. "I think he's shown that he can pitch in difficult circumstances. Bottom line, if he's healthy, he can pitch."
FOX Sports and ESPN reported that the Yankees went as far as to offer a one-year contract to Pavano, citing unnamed sources.Pavano, 35, reached 30 starts in 2010 for the second consecutive season, the second time in his 12-year career he's put together two such seasons -- the others came in 2003-04 with the Marlins. Following that season, Pavano signed a four-year, $39 million contract to pitch in New York. Due to several injuries, including Tommy John surgery on his right elbow in '07, Pavano was limited to 26 starts and 145 2/3 innings with the Yankees.
Pavano regained his health after signing with the Indians in 2009, and he split 33 starts between the Tribe and the Twins. He put up one of his finest seasons in 2010, logging 221 innings with a 3.75 ERA. Pavano is 97-89 in his career, spread between five clubs, with a 4.34 ERA.
Cashman said that he still believes Pavano has the fortitude to swim in the boiling fishbowl that is New York.
"Ultimately, I don't think he was afraid to come back here, either," Cashman said. "At the end of the day, we're going to look at every option out there to try and improve our club."
Bonn1997 wrote:Desperate times call for desperate measures
rehashing a failed relationship out of desperation = stupidity
VDesai wrote:I don't blame Cash for at least kicking the tires on Pavano. He prob would turn back into a pumpkin in NY, but he was basically the opposite of everything he was as a Yankee in Minnesota last year - durable and reliable. Actually the Twins got a very good deal, 2 yrs $16.5 mil is a great value for them if he can put up a couple years anywhere close to what he did last year.
Pavano was great as a Marlin too... he couldn't handle the big market pressure... he'll do fine on a team like the Twins, A's, Orioles, etc.
TMS wrote:VDesai wrote:I don't blame Cash for at least kicking the tires on Pavano. He prob would turn back into a pumpkin in NY, but he was basically the opposite of everything he was as a Yankee in Minnesota last year - durable and reliable. Actually the Twins got a very good deal, 2 yrs $16.5 mil is a great value for them if he can put up a couple years anywhere close to what he did last year.Pavano was great as a Marlin too... he couldn't handle the big market pressure... he'll do fine on a team like the Twins, A's, Orioles, etc.
It's not that he couldn't handle NY. It's that he couldn't stay healthy. Otherwise, I agree with you. I am not a fan of giving past failures a retry. It's why I was and am against the Melky for avy trade. Where did that get us? Nowhere.
Hopefully Soriano will be consistently reliable because it seems like nobody we get can be reliable, at least consistently.
Allanfan20 wrote:TMS wrote:VDesai wrote:I don't blame Cash for at least kicking the tires on Pavano. He prob would turn back into a pumpkin in NY, but he was basically the opposite of everything he was as a Yankee in Minnesota last year - durable and reliable. Actually the Twins got a very good deal, 2 yrs $16.5 mil is a great value for them if he can put up a couple years anywhere close to what he did last year.Pavano was great as a Marlin too... he couldn't handle the big market pressure... he'll do fine on a team like the Twins, A's, Orioles, etc.
It's not that he couldn't handle NY. It's that he couldn't stay healthy. Otherwise, I agree with you. I am not a fan of giving past failures a retry. It's why I was and am against the Melky for avy trade. Where did that get us? Nowhere.
Hopefully Soriano will be consistently reliable because it seems like nobody we get can be reliable, at least consistently.
Melky's a FA, i think we should bring him back if we don't get Andruw Jones... he adds some great energy to this team
TMS wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:TMS wrote:VDesai wrote:I don't blame Cash for at least kicking the tires on Pavano. He prob would turn back into a pumpkin in NY, but he was basically the opposite of everything he was as a Yankee in Minnesota last year - durable and reliable. Actually the Twins got a very good deal, 2 yrs $16.5 mil is a great value for them if he can put up a couple years anywhere close to what he did last year.Pavano was great as a Marlin too... he couldn't handle the big market pressure... he'll do fine on a team like the Twins, A's, Orioles, etc.
It's not that he couldn't handle NY. It's that he couldn't stay healthy. Otherwise, I agree with you. I am not a fan of giving past failures a retry. It's why I was and am against the Melky for avy trade. Where did that get us? Nowhere.
Hopefully Soriano will be consistently reliable because it seems like nobody we get can be reliable, at least consistently.
Melky's a FA, i think we should bring him back if we don't get Andruw Jones... he adds some great energy to this team
I'd consider that, if I didn't notice how much he blew up last season. The guy got FAT. His energy at this point can only take him so far. I doubt that would have happened if he stayed with the Yankees, but then again, who knows? He simply might not take his job seriously.
TMS wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:TMS wrote:VDesai wrote:I don't blame Cash for at least kicking the tires on Pavano. He prob would turn back into a pumpkin in NY, but he was basically the opposite of everything he was as a Yankee in Minnesota last year - durable and reliable. Actually the Twins got a very good deal, 2 yrs $16.5 mil is a great value for them if he can put up a couple years anywhere close to what he did last year.Pavano was great as a Marlin too... he couldn't handle the big market pressure... he'll do fine on a team like the Twins, A's, Orioles, etc.
It's not that he couldn't handle NY. It's that he couldn't stay healthy. Otherwise, I agree with you. I am not a fan of giving past failures a retry. It's why I was and am against the Melky for avy trade. Where did that get us? Nowhere.
Hopefully Soriano will be consistently reliable because it seems like nobody we get can be reliable, at least consistently.
Melky's a FA, i think we should bring him back if we don't get Andruw Jones... he adds some great energy to this team
don't think theres a chance that happens - the reason melky was cut was because the front-office felt he was a bad influence on cano. judging from cano's career-year last year, i think they were right.
nyk4ever wrote:TMS wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:TMS wrote:VDesai wrote:I don't blame Cash for at least kicking the tires on Pavano. He prob would turn back into a pumpkin in NY, but he was basically the opposite of everything he was as a Yankee in Minnesota last year - durable and reliable. Actually the Twins got a very good deal, 2 yrs $16.5 mil is a great value for them if he can put up a couple years anywhere close to what he did last year.Pavano was great as a Marlin too... he couldn't handle the big market pressure... he'll do fine on a team like the Twins, A's, Orioles, etc.
It's not that he couldn't handle NY. It's that he couldn't stay healthy. Otherwise, I agree with you. I am not a fan of giving past failures a retry. It's why I was and am against the Melky for avy trade. Where did that get us? Nowhere.
Hopefully Soriano will be consistently reliable because it seems like nobody we get can be reliable, at least consistently.
Melky's a FA, i think we should bring him back if we don't get Andruw Jones... he adds some great energy to this team
don't think theres a chance that happens - the reason melky was cut was because the front-office felt he was a bad influence on cano. judging from cano's career-year last year, i think they were right.
I think that's up for debate. Remember, Melky had a very good year for us in 2009 too with good defense and clutch hitting. He was very hot and cold that year though. There was no in between with the man. Remember, it wasn't Robinsons numbers that were suffering, nor was it his defense. They were both there and his numbers weren't too far off from this past season. It was the fact that he couldn't hit with men on and hit in clutch situations that killed us. Is that really Melkys fault?
Allanfan20 wrote:nyk4ever wrote:TMS wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:TMS wrote:VDesai wrote:I don't blame Cash for at least kicking the tires on Pavano. He prob would turn back into a pumpkin in NY, but he was basically the opposite of everything he was as a Yankee in Minnesota last year - durable and reliable. Actually the Twins got a very good deal, 2 yrs $16.5 mil is a great value for them if he can put up a couple years anywhere close to what he did last year.Pavano was great as a Marlin too... he couldn't handle the big market pressure... he'll do fine on a team like the Twins, A's, Orioles, etc.
It's not that he couldn't handle NY. It's that he couldn't stay healthy. Otherwise, I agree with you. I am not a fan of giving past failures a retry. It's why I was and am against the Melky for avy trade. Where did that get us? Nowhere.
Hopefully Soriano will be consistently reliable because it seems like nobody we get can be reliable, at least consistently.
Melky's a FA, i think we should bring him back if we don't get Andruw Jones... he adds some great energy to this team
don't think theres a chance that happens - the reason melky was cut was because the front-office felt he was a bad influence on cano. judging from cano's career-year last year, i think they were right.
I think that's up for debate. Remember, Melky had a very good year for us in 2009 too with good defense and clutch hitting. He was very hot and cold that year though. There was no in between with the man. Remember, it wasn't Robinsons numbers that were suffering, nor was it his defense. They were both there and his numbers weren't too far off from this past season. It was the fact that he couldn't hit with men on and hit in clutch situations that killed us. Is that really Melkys fault?
There's no doubt he had better numbers on second though, but that was MAINLY b/c he did hit better with men on... and was more patient at the plate. Again... how is this a result of Melky being a bad influence. Was he a bad influence for Cano when it came to his stellar defense too?
Cashman: "Joba's in the bullpen, for the 200th time" - a.k.a., The Debate is OverJoba Chamberlain will be in the bullpen and there is no chance of him starting for the Yankees in 2011, both Cashman and Girardi said.
Here's Girardi's explanation: "I think Joba is going to be an important part of our bullpen. For me, I like to shorten the game as much as I can. He has a chance to be an outstanding reliever for us and I think his second half was better than his first half. I think we could really have a close down bullpen where the game gets really short. When you're called upon to pitch, your inning is just as important. If you give up runs in the sixth, you never get to the eighth. Sometimes in the seventh you might face a tougher part of the order than the eighth."
Asked if there was some physical reason the Yankees wouldn't consider starting Chamberlain, Girardi answered, "No, not necessarily. It's probably hard to bounce back and forth all the time. Then you end up with an innings limitation again. I think it's really important that you have an awesome bullpen and I think he can be a big part of that. ... We just decided at this point that's where he fits the best and that's where we're going to put him."
Responding to a similar question, Cashman said, "I think we've seen over time now that his stuff plays so much better as a reliever than as a starter ... As a result of everything leading up to and including last spring."
A reporter then tried to float the case that Chamberlain's numbers as a starter compared favorably to what Ivan Nova or Sergio Mitre might provide.
"He's in the bullpen," Cashman said.
If Joba is in the pen than IMO we should trade him. Maybe some team views him a closer.
TMS wrote:Rays just signed Manny & Johnny Damon
And the clocks on clubhouse chemistry cancer and injury watch both start at the same time...
moving this up because I hate to see the mets thread above this one...