Off Topic · Yankees Talk thread (page 66)

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by islesfan:

Good day for the Yankees. Easy win. Good start from Pettitte and the offense is still humming. Giambi is making a serious case to be an All Star. Alfredo Aceves, some guy they pulled from the Mexican League and is tearing through AA ball, pitched 8 innings tonight while giving up only one hit. They aren't the Mets.

As for those Mets, they rightfully get crucified for the piss poor job they did hanging Randolph out to dry, their GM looks like an incompetent and total buffoon trying to spin the situation, their plan to do it the day Santana is scheduled to pitch backfires as the Angels easily handle him and Reyes gets hurt leading off the game with a single and has to be removed from the game.

I want to go to sleep but I'm afraid to miss another major 3 AM announcement from the Mets.

the good thing is that i don't think cash is going to feel the pressure of making a move this season. i think he has so many young pitchers that he's going to use this as an opportunity to see what they got. and i'm glad they are...unless they can get someone on the cheap. and getting hughes back in august would be something like a midseason deal.

looks like wang might be done for the year so that's a huge loss.

giambi's #'s are kind of retarded...may have to exercise the option for next season.

I think they saw what was out there and what trades were being offered after Wang went down and came to the easy conclusion that they have to hold the fort with what they already have in their system. It's the smart move. Like you said, unless they can get someone on the cheap, they should just hold off on trades.

They have an easy schedule through July, with a ton of home games, I think they can weather the storm until Hughes and Kennedy come back.

I'm happy for Giambi that he's getting his game back but I don't trust it and wouldn't count on it for next year. Assuming they get Texeira, there wouldn't be any room for Giambi anyway with Damon and Matsui on the books for another year.

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TMS:

5 in a row... 8 of the last 10... best in the majors over that stretch.

right now the Yanks are the hottest team in baseball.

[Edited by - TMS on 06-18-2008 12:11 AM]

I'm happy to see the team winning but they are beating up on bad teams right now.

You play who your schedule tells you to play. All you can do is try to win those games. That's what they're doing. The Red Sox and Tampa are going to be playing those same teams so why should the Yankees apologize for playing and winning those games?

There's nothing to apologize over. It's good that the Yankees are beating up on these teams. My only point is that this streak doesn't mean they're actually playing better now than they were when they were losing to better teams. We have to see how this streak translates against the better teams before I get excited.

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TMS:

there are only a select amount of good teams in baseball... do u think good teams only beat up on good teams? u gotta beat who you're playing that day bottomline & the Yanks are doing it now in convincing fashion no less... 2 straight shutouts, the offense has been pretty awesome, bullpen is doing their job nicely, we're getting great starting pitching & they've been playing great defense... we haven't accomplished anything yet but if you don't get encouraged by the way they've been playing of late u probably haven't been watching the games.

No, I've been watching. We have different standards. I can tell you'd be happy if this team just made it to the playoffs and lost in the 1st round again. I'm not interested in merely repeating the last few years.

In a transition year with their starting pitching, and now with a season ending injury to their ace, why do you expect that much? Try not to base it on previous seasons.

And I'll just add that injury or no injury to their ace, the Yankees are able to put together a more expensive, healthy lineup than their opponents in every game. So I'm gonna cut them too much slack. If you spend $200 mil, you should have more than one ace pitcher (and it's not even clear that Wang is one actually). Teams spending far less have deeper starting rotations.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TMS:

there are only a select amount of good teams in baseball... do u think good teams only beat up on good teams? u gotta beat who you're playing that day bottomline & the Yanks are doing it now in convincing fashion no less... 2 straight shutouts, the offense has been pretty awesome, bullpen is doing their job nicely, we're getting great starting pitching & they've been playing great defense... we haven't accomplished anything yet but if you don't get encouraged by the way they've been playing of late u probably haven't been watching the games.

No, I've been watching. We have different standards. I can tell you'd be happy if this team just made it to the playoffs and lost in the 1st round again. I'm not interested in merely repeating the last few years.

In a transition year with their starting pitching, and now with a season ending injury to their ace, why do you expect that much? Try not to base it on previous seasons.

We should have had a transition year about 5 years ago. If this is a transition year (which I haven't heard any member of the Yankees' organization say), then it points to failures in the long-term planning throughout the decade. It took three consecutive first round playoff losses for them to realize they needed a transition? I'd rather have a GM that is proactive.

Like I said, try not to base your answer on previous seasons. I'm not worried about 5 years ago at this point. Why do the Yankees have to announce that it's a transition year? Relying on 3 pitchers in their early twenties with little major league experience should tell you that it's a transition year.

Cashman has restocked the farm system to the point it's considered one of the best in baseball, 5 years ago it was considered to be one of the worst. He's put the Yankees in a position where they don't need to rely on expensive free agent pitchers or costly trades. How much more proactive should he be? I know, because it wasn't done soon enough for your liking, it shouldn't count or his good work should be diminished in some way. Me, I'm just glad that it was done and done very well. I'm happy with the direction of the franchise and I think the team is positioned very well for another 6-8 year run of being in the hunt for championships.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TMS:

5 in a row... 8 of the last 10... best in the majors over that stretch.

right now the Yanks are the hottest team in baseball.

[Edited by - TMS on 06-18-2008 12:11 AM]

I'm happy to see the team winning but they are beating up on bad teams right now.

You play who your schedule tells you to play. All you can do is try to win those games. That's what they're doing. The Red Sox and Tampa are going to be playing those same teams so why should the Yankees apologize for playing and winning those games?

There's nothing to apologize over. It's good that the Yankees are beating up on these teams. My only point is that this streak doesn't mean they're actually playing better now than they were when they were losing to better teams. We have to see how this streak translates against the better teams before I get excited.

If you can't tell that they're playing better ball just by watching them, regardless of the opponent, then I really don't know what to tell you.

Earlier in the season, hell just a few short weeks ago, they were having trouble beating the Royals and teams of their ilk.

As for being excited, I don't think anybody is saying that. We're just happy to see them playing better. There are shades in between disappointed and being excited.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TMS:

there are only a select amount of good teams in baseball... do u think good teams only beat up on good teams? u gotta beat who you're playing that day bottomline & the Yanks are doing it now in convincing fashion no less... 2 straight shutouts, the offense has been pretty awesome, bullpen is doing their job nicely, we're getting great starting pitching & they've been playing great defense... we haven't accomplished anything yet but if you don't get encouraged by the way they've been playing of late u probably haven't been watching the games.

No, I've been watching. We have different standards. I can tell you'd be happy if this team just made it to the playoffs and lost in the 1st round again. I'm not interested in merely repeating the last few years.

In a transition year with their starting pitching, and now with a season ending injury to their ace, why do you expect that much? Try not to base it on previous seasons.

And I'll just add that injury or no injury to their ace, the Yankees are able to put together a more expensive, healthy lineup than their opponents in every game. So I'm gonna cut them too much slack. If you spend $200 mil, you should have more than one ace pitcher (and it's not even clear that Wang is one actually). Teams spending far less have deeper starting rotations.

Wang has the most victories over the last 3 seasons of any pitcher in the Majors in that time period. I believe that makes him an ace.

I understand what their payroll is and I'm not suggesting that "transition" means giving up on the season. I just understand that even from day 1 with everyone healthy, they were putting a lot of faith in 3 really young pitchers and a guy seemingly on his last legs. Throw in injuries to Jeter, ARod and Posada and I'm going to cut them some slack.

Why do you care so much about what other teams spend? If it makes you happy, next year the Yankees will have one of the least expensive rotations in baseball with Wang, Joba, Hughes and Kennedy. Even if they sign Sabathia it will still be cheaper than most. But to get to integrate that many young pitchers, there needs to be a transition. This season was the start of that. Although that may be pushed back with the injuries to Hughes and Kennedy and how they baby these kids by strictly watching their pitch counts.

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TMS:

there are only a select amount of good teams in baseball... do u think good teams only beat up on good teams? u gotta beat who you're playing that day bottomline & the Yanks are doing it now in convincing fashion no less... 2 straight shutouts, the offense has been pretty awesome, bullpen is doing their job nicely, we're getting great starting pitching & they've been playing great defense... we haven't accomplished anything yet but if you don't get encouraged by the way they've been playing of late u probably haven't been watching the games.

No, I've been watching. We have different standards. I can tell you'd be happy if this team just made it to the playoffs and lost in the 1st round again. I'm not interested in merely repeating the last few years.

In a transition year with their starting pitching, and now with a season ending injury to their ace, why do you expect that much? Try not to base it on previous seasons.

And I'll just add that injury or no injury to their ace, the Yankees are able to put together a more expensive, healthy lineup than their opponents in every game. So I'm gonna cut them too much slack. If you spend $200 mil, you should have more than one ace pitcher (and it's not even clear that Wang is one actually). Teams spending far less have deeper starting rotations.

Wang has the most victories over the last 3 seasons of any pitcher in the Majors in that time period. I believe that makes him an ace.

I understand what their payroll is and I'm not suggesting that "transition" means giving up on the season. I just understand that even from day 1 with everyone healthy, they were putting a lot of faith in 3 really young pitchers and a guy seemingly on his last legs. Throw in injuries to Jeter, ARod and Posada and I'm going to cut them some slack.

Why do you care so much about what other teams spend? If it makes you happy, next year the Yankees will have one of the least expensive rotations in baseball with Wang, Joba, Hughes and Kennedy. Even if they sign Sabathia it will still be cheaper than most. But to get to integrate that many young pitchers, there needs to be a transition. This season was the start of that. Although that may be pushed back with the injuries to Hughes and Kennedy and how they baby these kids by strictly watching their pitch counts.

Fair enough. If this is a transition year, they better be transitioning to something worthwhile. Joba is the only of their young players who shown me anything positive. That's not enough for me to conclude that it's been a productive transition year. What do you expect in order for it to be a productive transition year?

Cashman has restocked the farm system to the point it's considered one of the best in baseball, 5 years ago it was considered to be one of the worst. He's put the Yankees in a position where they don't need to rely on expensive free agent pitchers or costly trades. How much more proactive should he be? I know, because it wasn't done soon enough for your liking, it shouldn't count or his good work should be diminished in some way. Me, I'm just glad that it was done and done very well.

Allowing the farm system to deteriorate and then correcting it is clearly being reactive not proactive. That said, we do not know how well his reactive efforts have worked. That will take many years to assess. I wish we saw more promising preliminary results this year.

I believe that they are transitioning to something very worthwhile. If not, then you can have at them all you want.

I think you're looking at a 2 year transition period, especially with the injuries to Hughes and Kennedy. Long enough so these young kids are no longer on restrictive pitch counts. That's not to say that they shouldn't be expected to win games and compete for a playoff spot but I'm not going to go crazy if they don't make the playoffs or lose in the first round.

For it to be a productive transition year I'd like to see one of the young guys prove to be a front of the rotation starter (which Joba can hopefully do), a few others can fill out the rotation as 3,4 and 5 starters (might take through the middle of next year since Hughes and Kennedy's development has been pushed back due to injuries, and some of the young arms can start building a bridge to Mariano so that we're no longer dependent on Farnsworth and Hawkins. As far as the bullpen, I can't wait to see how Cox and Melancon do when they get their chance later this year and I'm enjoying watching Ramirez and Veras continue to develop. And I'm leaving out 5-6 guys out who deserve a shot this year to see what they can do at the ML level.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Cashman has restocked the farm system to the point it's considered one of the best in baseball, 5 years ago it was considered to be one of the worst. He's put the Yankees in a position where they don't need to rely on expensive free agent pitchers or costly trades. How much more proactive should he be? I know, because it wasn't done soon enough for your liking, it shouldn't count or his good work should be diminished in some way. Me, I'm just glad that it was done and done very well.

Allowing the farm system to deteriorate and then correcting it is clearly being reactive not proactive. That said, we do not know how well his reactive efforts have worked. That will take many years to assess. I wish we saw more promising preliminary results this year.

Reactive. Proactive. Does it really matter if the end result is the farm system is built up to the point that it's considered one of the best in baseball and gives the Yankees plenty of good, young, affordable talent to fill holes with?

I'm sorry that Hughes and Kennedy got hurt but you're being piggish if you don't think grooming an obvious ace and a few solid bullpen guys aren't promising preliminary results.

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Cashman has restocked the farm system to the point it's considered one of the best in baseball, 5 years ago it was considered to be one of the worst. He's put the Yankees in a position where they don't need to rely on expensive free agent pitchers or costly trades. How much more proactive should he be? I know, because it wasn't done soon enough for your liking, it shouldn't count or his good work should be diminished in some way. Me, I'm just glad that it was done and done very well.

Allowing the farm system to deteriorate and then correcting it is clearly being reactive not proactive. That said, we do not know how well his reactive efforts have worked. That will take many years to assess. I wish we saw more promising preliminary results this year.

Reactive. Proactive. Does it really matter if the end result is the farm system is built up to the point that it's considered one of the best in baseball and gives the Yankees plenty of good, young, affordable talent to fill holes with?

I'm sorry that Hughes and Kennedy got hurt but you're being piggish if you don't think grooming an obvious ace and a few solid bullpen guys aren't promising preliminary results.

Joba is not an obvious ace. You're jumping to conclusions. He's an obvious solid set up man whom we've seen very few starting pitching innings. We've seen some decent and some bad relief appearances from the young guys and the sample of innings is to small to conclude anything. I'm looking at the opportunity cost here; we could have had a Cy Young award pitcher for Kennedy and Hughes. So they have to turn into more than 4th starters for me to be pleased with them.

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Cashman has restocked the farm system to the point it's considered one of the best in baseball, 5 years ago it was considered to be one of the worst. He's put the Yankees in a position where they don't need to rely on expensive free agent pitchers or costly trades. How much more proactive should he be? I know, because it wasn't done soon enough for your liking, it shouldn't count or his good work should be diminished in some way. Me, I'm just glad that it was done and done very well.

Allowing the farm system to deteriorate and then correcting it is clearly being reactive not proactive. That said, we do not know how well his reactive efforts have worked. That will take many years to assess. I wish we saw more promising preliminary results this year.

Reactive. Proactive. Does it really matter if the end result is the farm system is built up to the point that it's considered one of the best in baseball and gives the Yankees plenty of good, young, affordable talent to fill holes with?

I'm sorry that Hughes and Kennedy got hurt but you're being piggish if you don't think grooming an obvious ace and a few solid bullpen guys aren't promising preliminary results.

The difference between proactive and reactive is huge in any area of life. A proactive president might have prevented 9/11. A proactive GM might have never let it get to the point where a $200 mil payroll will either miss the playoffs or likely lose in the 1st round for the 4th straight season. We'd probably be in the position Boston was by last year had we had a proactive GM. They have more sane, patient, intelligent ownership and general managing that are all stages ahead of us in their planning.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 06-18-2008 2:09 PM]

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Cashman has restocked the farm system to the point it's considered one of the best in baseball, 5 years ago it was considered to be one of the worst. He's put the Yankees in a position where they don't need to rely on expensive free agent pitchers or costly trades. How much more proactive should he be? I know, because it wasn't done soon enough for your liking, it shouldn't count or his good work should be diminished in some way. Me, I'm just glad that it was done and done very well.

Allowing the farm system to deteriorate and then correcting it is clearly being reactive not proactive. That said, we do not know how well his reactive efforts have worked. That will take many years to assess. I wish we saw more promising preliminary results this year.

Reactive. Proactive. Does it really matter if the end result is the farm system is built up to the point that it's considered one of the best in baseball and gives the Yankees plenty of good, young, affordable talent to fill holes with?

I'm sorry that Hughes and Kennedy got hurt but you're being piggish if you don't think grooming an obvious ace and a few solid bullpen guys aren't promising preliminary results.

Joba is not an obvious ace. You're jumping to conclusions. He's an obvious solid set up man whom we've seen very few starting pitching innings. We've seen some decent and some bad relief appearances from the young guys and the sample of innings is to small to conclude anything. I'm looking at the opportunity cost here; we could have had a Cy Young award pitcher for Kennedy and Hughes. So they have to turn into more than 4th starters for me to be pleased with them.

You're going to cry about opportunity cost that the Yankees didn't trade 2 top pitching prospects and their starting CF AND giving Santana $25M a year for 6 years? What if they can keep those young players AND sign Sabathia, a Cy Young award pitcher, for less than it would have taken to sign Santana?

Fine, if Joba can prove that he's a top of the rotation pitcher and they can start to build their main setup guys around some of these young arms, then I think those are very promising preliminary results.

[Edited by - islesfan on 18-06-2008 2:13 PM]

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Cashman has restocked the farm system to the point it's considered one of the best in baseball, 5 years ago it was considered to be one of the worst. He's put the Yankees in a position where they don't need to rely on expensive free agent pitchers or costly trades. How much more proactive should he be? I know, because it wasn't done soon enough for your liking, it shouldn't count or his good work should be diminished in some way. Me, I'm just glad that it was done and done very well.

Allowing the farm system to deteriorate and then correcting it is clearly being reactive not proactive. That said, we do not know how well his reactive efforts have worked. That will take many years to assess. I wish we saw more promising preliminary results this year.

Reactive. Proactive. Does it really matter if the end result is the farm system is built up to the point that it's considered one of the best in baseball and gives the Yankees plenty of good, young, affordable talent to fill holes with?

I'm sorry that Hughes and Kennedy got hurt but you're being piggish if you don't think grooming an obvious ace and a few solid bullpen guys aren't promising preliminary results.

The difference between proactive and reactive is huge in any area of life. A proactive president might have prevented 9/11. A proactive GM might have never let it get to the point where a $200 mil payroll will either miss the playoffs or likely lose in the 1st round for the 4th straight season. We'd probably be in the position Boston was by last year had we had a proactive GM. They have more sane, patient, intelligent ownership and general managing that are all stages ahead of us in their planning.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 06-18-2008 2:09 PM]

Yeah, but the end result of both is focusing on the future. That's what the Yankees should be doing and I'm glad that they are. I don't care which word you think better describes why they're doing it, the important thing is that they are.

You don't think that Boston was being reactive? That's funny.

To be continued...I have to leave now. I'm officially beginning my move from Maine to Alabama. I may get online occasionally if any of the hotels I'm staying at along the way overnight have internet access.

Posted by Bonn1997:

To be continued...I have to leave now. I'm officially beginning my move from Maine to Alabama. I may get online occasionally if any of the hotels I'm staying at along the way overnight have internet access.

Good luck with your move and safe travels.

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TMS:

there are only a select amount of good teams in baseball... do u think good teams only beat up on good teams? u gotta beat who you're playing that day bottomline & the Yanks are doing it now in convincing fashion no less... 2 straight shutouts, the offense has been pretty awesome, bullpen is doing their job nicely, we're getting great starting pitching & they've been playing great defense... we haven't accomplished anything yet but if you don't get encouraged by the way they've been playing of late u probably haven't been watching the games.

No, I've been watching. We have different standards. I can tell you'd be happy if this team just made it to the playoffs and lost in the 1st round again. I'm not interested in merely repeating the last few years.

In a transition year with their starting pitching, and now with a season ending injury to their ace, why do you expect that much? Try not to base it on previous seasons.

We should have had a transition year about 5 years ago. If this is a transition year (which I haven't heard any member of the Yankees' organization say), then it points to failures in the long-term planning throughout the decade. It took three consecutive first round playoff losses for them to realize they needed a transition? I'd rather have a GM that is proactive.

Like I said, try not to base your answer on previous seasons. I'm not worried about 5 years ago at this point. Why do the Yankees have to announce that it's a transition year? Relying on 3 pitchers in their early twenties with little major league experience should tell you that it's a transition year.

Cashman has restocked the farm system to the point it's considered one of the best in baseball, 5 years ago it was considered to be one of the worst. He's put the Yankees in a position where they don't need to rely on expensive free agent pitchers or costly trades. How much more proactive should he be? I know, because it wasn't done soon enough for your liking, it shouldn't count or his good work should be diminished in some way. Me, I'm just glad that it was done and done very well. I'm happy with the direction of the franchise and I think the team is positioned very well for another 6-8 year run of being in the hunt for championships.

couldn't have said it better isles... actually i have said those same exact things but Bonn is of the mind that the Yankees need to make it to the WS every year... that's just not reality.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Joba is not an obvious ace. You're jumping to conclusions. He's an obvious solid set up man whom we've seen very few starting pitching innings

there isn't a team in baseball that wouldn't want this kid in their rotation right now... you're seriously buggin if you think Joba's nothing but a solid set up man... this kid is the goods.

6 in a row... beat 1 of the best pitchers in the game tonight in Peavy... ARod & Damon are on a tear hitting in the 330's... if ARod keeps on this pace to the end of the season he can win his 4th AL MVP... solid performance by Rasner.

i think joba has his first solid outing as a starter tomorrow afternoon.

he already had more than a solid outing his last start... 6 innings 1 ER is a great start for any pitcher... i think Joba's gonna be fine... i was hesitant to pre-judge him as a starter cuz we'd only seen him dominate in 1-2 innning spurts, but after seeing his velocity stay in the high 90's even in the later innings his last time out i have a lot more confidence he'll be able to sustain his stuff deep into games.