Posted by GKFv2:
How is Washburn that much better than Rasner? I guess I'd do it to get rid of Igawa but Igawa is in the minors anyway and we're doing fine with the pitching we have. If anything we need a guy in the pen.
he's a huge upgrade over Kei Igawa, that's enough for me... what do the Yankees have to lose by making such a trade? there are no possible downsides... Kei Igawa will never be anything of any significance in NY, that much is painfully obvious... at least Washburn has a chance to contribute at some point... injuries happen all the time & we can never have enough pitching depth... if u check his #'s in his past 5 starts he has an ERA in the 2's... plus he's a lefty... why wouldn't u make that trade?
I would make the trade but I wouldn't be extremely excited about it. It would be kind of like the Roberson signing (well maybe more of an impact than that, but only barely).
no one expects anyone to be excited over trading for Washburn... i'd be more excited just to get rid of Kei Igawa.
Washburn is a definite upgrade over Rasner. Although he has a 4.75 ERA so far this year, in his last 5 starts he has a 2.97ERA and let's not forget about his era in his 6 career starts at Yankee Stadium - 2.82. He's a lefty and we all know how well that works out in Yankee Stadium. I'd definitely do this trade.
Yankees are only 3 games out of first right now. Washburn has been a stud at Yankee stadium and if they can get him for Igawa and spare parts thats a trade they have to do.
if they want to bring up hughes or kennedy or aceves, then i don't see them making a move for washburn. maybe they're set with the top 3 in their rotation: moose + pettite + joba for the post season. so their just piecing together the 4 and 5 spot. ponson's new pitch is getting people to ground out whenever he wants to, so he's been a real find for us. that leaves the rasner spot. washburn definitely helps, but i would rather keep using rasner and then bring up one of the young guys to fill that spot. this is still a transition season and i would like them to get some innings in.
hughes still has a ways to go but aceves is doing his thing and kennedy has given up 9 earned runs in 33 innings in AAA including a no hitter through 8 2/3rds tonight.
also, washburn has a no-trade clause which includes the yanks. he's owed $7 mil next season too. so he might be veto-ing the deal or asking for more money to waive the no-trade clause if this deal is really being discussed.
[Edited by - djsunyc on 07-25-2008 01:04 AM]
Washburn or Igawa is what it comes down to... this is a pure salary dump for SEA because Igawa is only due to make $4 mil per for the next 3 years, while the Yanks would be taking on Vidro & Washburn's salaries this year & Washburn's salary next year, so it's more money upfront... these are the types of deals Cashman has used to fill holes the past few years... i don't see a problem w/Washburn waiving his NTC rights to come to a contender.
[Edited by - TMS on 07-24-2008 10:34 PM]
Posted by djsunyc:
if they want to bring up hughes or kennedy or aceves, then i don't see them making a move for washburn. maybe they're set with the top 3 in their rotation: moose + pettite + joba for the post season. so their just piecing together the 4 and 5 spot. ponson's new pitch is getting people to ground out whenever he wants to, so he's been a real find for us. that leaves the rasner spot. washburn definitely helps, but i would rather keep using rasner and then bring up one of the young guys to fill that spot. this is still a transition season and i would like them to get some innings in.
hughes still has a ways to go but aceves is doing his thing and kennedy has given up 9 earned runs in 33 innings in AAA including a no hitter through 8 2/3rds tonight.
also, washburn has a no-trade clause which includes the yanks. he's owed $7 mil next season too. so he might be veto-ing the deal or asking for more money to waive the no-trade clause if this deal is really being discussed.
[Edited by - djsunyc on 07-25-2008 01:04 AM]
the Kennedy near no hitter was through 6 2/3rds... he's allowed 1 ER in his last 14 innings pitched... Aceves is being monitored very closely but if the Yanks can get Washburn i think that's the route they're gonna go right now... Aceves can still use some more time in the minors after just coming back off an injury... Washburn is set to make $10.35 mil next season & a prorated leftover of $9.85 mil this season... that's a big chunka change the M's wanna unload... add to that Vidro's prorated $8.5 mil left this season (Nats pay $2.5 mil of that) & his vesting option for '09, it's a pure salary dump for SEA... they won't likely ask for anything else in the deal but 1 of those players to be named later type prospects, & the Yanks aren't gonna grant Washburn anything more than the money he's owed cuz he's getting a chance to play on a contender, something he won't have if he stays in SEA.
I like the chemistry on this team, i think they just need a few minor tweaks here & there... last year we had ARod carrying a big part of the load for this team offensively & CMW was the guy we relied on to win games every 5th day... right now it seems like this team is starting to click & everyone is starting to pull their share... there's more of an overall balance that we haven't seen for a while.
- Moose, Andy & Joba have stepped it up in the starting rotation in the absence of Wang.
- Cano & Abreu have started to heat up at the plate & are a huge reason for the recent streak of wins
- we got a role player like Jose Molina doing an excellent job behind the plate calling games & playing gold glove calibre defense to step up for the absence of Jorge, & Chad Moeller has done a very good job calling games in Rasner's starts as well
- Jason & the Big Sexy seems like a nice tandem at 1B & provide nice power from both sides of the plate (Sexson's defense is pretty good too)
- the bullpen has done a STELLAR job all year long & particularly after Joba was converted to a fulltime starter... Kyle Farnsworth has undergone a complete transformation from an automatic pour gasoline on the fire guy to a dominant setup man that we all hoped we would see from him some day... Veras, Edwar, Geise & Robertson have been excellent in situational roles & Joe G has done a tremendous job of managing the bullpen so that none of their arms have been blown out from overuse the way guys like Quantrill, Sturtze & Proctor's arms were over-used over the past few years
- we have some nice speed on the bench w/Gardner & Christian that we haven't had for a while
- Sidney Ponson & Darrell Rasner have both done a very good job as back of the rotation starters
- Jason Giambi & Johnny Damon have performed better than anyone could have hoped this season as well.
i think we just need to add a little more depth in the starting rotation & maybe a lefty arm for the bullpen & we can make a serious run at a championship this season... that's right, i said CHAMPIONSHIP... the AL East is ours for the taking if u ask me... w/plenty of games left to play vs. the Red Sox & Rays, this team's destiny is in its own hands.
LET'S GO YANKEES!
Kennedy's pitched great in the minors all year. The only question is whether he can handle the pressure of the majors.
Posted by nyk4ever:
Washburn is a definite upgrade over Rasner. Although he has a 4.75 ERA so far this year, in his last 5 starts he has a 2.97ERA and let's not forget about his era in his 6 career starts at Yankee Stadium - 2.82. He's a lefty and we all know how well that works out in Yankee Stadium. I'd definitely do this trade.
I haven't made my mind up but I'll play devil's advocate: 6 career starts is a very small sample. And if his ERA is 2.97 over the last 5 and 4.75 overall, that just means he was really bad prior to the last 5. How much is the difference in total money owed to Igawa vs. Vidro and Washburn vs. Igawa?
Rasner & Washburn's stats this year are pretty much a wash, the only real difference being Washburn adds another lefty to your starting rotation who has experience pitching in big games in the past... Ras has been effective in both the rotation & in a long relief role & in spot starts so he's more flexible in those terms... neither are that much of an upgrade over the other but like the saying goes u can never have too much pitching.
Igawa is owed $4 mil per through the 2011 season ($16 mil total minus this year's prorated leftover)... Vidro & Washburn add up to about $24 mil in total spread over this season & next if u add in Vidro's vesting option next season (not exactly sure how much the option kicks in for but estimating around what he's making this season)
if those figures match up, then in total that amounts to about $8 mil more in total dollars from SEA plus the luxury tax payments on those contracts spread over this year & next, whereas Igawa's $14 mil or so will be spread out over 3.5 seasons, so it's a much more manageable amount if you're looking to cut payroll.
Posted by Bonn1997:
I'd look for a *real* upgrade at starting pitching and/or an outfielder who can hit better than Melky.
the problem is that teams that have better players up for grabs in a trade are asking for the moon to trade them... you're not getting a Matt Holliday or Jason Bay for example unless u throw in a package of some top prospects... there's not really any bigname pitchers on the market right now either other than maybe Bedard, & i think the M's will want a lot back for him in a trade.
so u have to decide whether to try & compete now while building up the farm system like u've been saying u wanted this franchise to do, or to trade away the farm & go all in to try & win a WS right now.
[Edited by - TMS on 07-25-2008 04:36 AM]
Well then the trade would make sense financially if you think replacing Ranser with Washburn will net an extra $8 mil in profits. The only way that happens IMO is if Washburn pushes the team into the playoffs if they otherwise wouldn't have made it with Rasner or one round further than they would have made it. If Washburn pitches the same as he has the past 3 years and Rasner the same as he has all year (the most likely scenario statistically), I wouldn't expect that to happen. Another scenario where it could pay off, though, is if one of our five starters gets injured. Does Steinbrenner tell Cashman that that extra $8 mil comes out of what they can spend on FAs next season if Washburn doesn't bring in an extra $8 mil or does Steinbrenner say it's a sunk cost and forget about it? That's the critical question to me.
This article mentions Bengie Molina.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story...He'd be a huge offensive upgrade over Jose. If you can't upgrade offensively at the CF position, catcher is an obvious place to look with Jorge out (and aging anyway). Steinbrenner also confirms that they have been talking about Barry Bonds.
i dunno if saving $8 mil spread out over the next 3 years is gonna be a major concern to the Boss... bottomline is Washburn can potentially help the Yankees while Igawa can't so i think if the M's agree to it then the deal will probably get done.
that Bengie Molina rumor is interesting but he's signed through next season at $6 mil, so after Jorge comes back they're gonna be stuck w/3 catchers in '09, & i don't see them keeping Bengie to be a backup making those dollars so they'd be forced to trade him after the season... at 35 years of age he may not bring back much in value.
doesn't look like Bonds is coming here.
We have 3 catchers if and only if Jorge is a catcher next year. The problem is that this team has at least four players who really should be DHs (Jorge, Matsui, Damon, and Jason). And that's half of the fielders!
the only way Jorge's not a C next year is if they let Giambi & Matsui both walk.
Yeah, I think that's correct. Bengie should be tradeable, though. They could get him for this year since Jorge is out and maybe even part of next year and trade him once (or if) it looks like Jorge is definitely back to normal. I don't think having two catchers who can hit well is such a bad scenario.
i guess it all depends on if Jorge is going to have surgery & if it looks like he'll miss part of next season in rehab.
from SI.com:
The Mariners have reportedly asked the Yankees for Melky Cabrera and Brett Gardner in a deal for Jarrod Washburn.
Apparently, they're also not looking to be saddled with Kei Igawa's contract. The Mariners have plenty of money, so they can hold out for an offer they like rather than simply dump Washburn's contract. However, this is a guy who is 22-38 with a 4.55 ERA over the last three years despite working in a pitcher's park. He wouldn't make the $10 million he's due next year if he were a free agent.
Now I'm not the biggest Melky fan(I love his defense, but I don't think he'll ever be more than a 4th outfielder Endy Chavez type) but no way I would do that deal.
