Yeah even that dopey kid they kept cutting to in the editing room had something negative to say about the Yanks early on.. I was like, who's this fruitcake?!?! I told my wife immediately, if that kid comes back on hit the mute button... We were laughing...
And I say forget Washburn. Yeah he can probably eat up some innings down the stretch here but ask yourself, is he gonna go to Tampa or Fenway (or our nemesis Anaheim - don't we have like 10 more games with those friggin' guys???) and throw a big game down the stretch run here in a big spot against one of those teams? Odds are those teams would have their way with him. If all we're concerned about here is a guy(s) to eat up innings, shit, Rasner and Ponson can do that. My thing is I want something better than that - an upgrade. Right now, with our offense clicking and our superior bullpen, I EXPECT to win games started by Joba, Moose and Pettitte. But right now after that....... And I agree with you DJ, first step, call up Kennedy. Hopefully he's ironed out the kinks. This kid's highly thought of both within the organization and around the league. Any trade discussion, this kid's name comes up. If he's right, he's better than Rasner/Ponson. And then if Hughes' rehab goes well and he picks up the few lost ticks on the heater, bring him up too. Alfredo Aceves also looks like an intriging option as well. If it came down to it, I'd be more inclined to bolster the back end of our rotation from within rather than with a Jarrod Washburn addition.
Posted by Finestrg:
Yeah even that dopey kid they kept cutting to in the editing room had something negative to say about the Yanks early on.. I was like, who's this fruitcake?!?! I told my wife immediately, if that kid comes back on hit the mute button... We were laughing...
And I say forget Washburn. Yeah he can probably eat up some innings down the stretch here but ask yourself, is he gonna go to Tampa or Fenway (or our nemesis Anaheim - don't we have like 10 more games with those friggin' guys???) and throw a big game down the stretch run here in a big spot against one of those teams? Odds are those teams would have their way with him. If all we're concerned about here is a guy(s) to eat up innings, shit, Rasner and Ponson can do that. My thing is I want something better than that - an upgrade. Right now, with our offense clicking and our superior bullpen, I EXPECT to win games started by Joba, Moose and Pettitte. But right now after that....... And I agree with you DJ, first step, call up Kennedy. Hopefully he's ironed out the kinks. This kid's highly thought of both within the organization and around the league. Any trade discussion, this kid's name comes up. If he's right, he's better than Rasner/Ponson. And then if Hughes' rehab goes well and he picks up the few lost ticks on the heater, bring him up too. Alfredo Aceves also looks like an intriging option as well. If it came down to it, I'd be more inclined to bolster the back end of our rotation from within rather than with a Jarrod Washburn addition.
Hughes and Kennedy are 0-7 and are the reason we're in the position we're in rather than having the best record in baseball. Maybe if we somehow build a huge 1st place lead, I'd give them each another chance. Otherwise, they had their chance this year and will have to hope they get another chance next year IMO. It's not like they spent all year in the minors and didn't get a fair shot. (The only exception I'd make would be if Hughes was pitching injured all season and does well when returning to the minors.)
[Edited by - bonn1997 on 07-28-2008 3:31 PM]
Posted by Bonn1997:
Hughes and Kennedy are 0-7 and are the reason we're in the position we're in rather than having the best record in baseball. Maybe if we somehow build a huge 1st place lead, I'd give them each another chance. Otherwise, they had their chance this year and will have to hope they get another chance next year IMO. It's not like they spent all year in the minors and didn't get a fair shot. (The only exception I'd make would be if Hughes was pitching injured all season and does well when returning to the minors.)
[Edited by - bonn1997 on 07-28-2008 3:31 PM]
Bonn, I thought you were advocating this year to be a "transition year"
If Hughes and Kennedy are both healthy they both deserve another shot at the rotation, especially Hughes. That is just not how you run an organization giving people one chance and that's it.
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Hughes and Kennedy are 0-7 and are the reason we're in the position we're in rather than having the best record in baseball. Maybe if we somehow build a huge 1st place lead, I'd give them each another chance. Otherwise, they had their chance this year and will have to hope they get another chance next year IMO. It's not like they spent all year in the minors and didn't get a fair shot. (The only exception I'd make would be if Hughes was pitching injured all season and does well when returning to the minors.)
[Edited by - bonn1997 on 07-28-2008 3:31 PM]
Bonn, I thought you were advocating this year to be a "transition year"
If Hughes and Kennedy are both healthy they both deserve another shot at the rotation, especially Hughes. That is just not how you run an organization giving people one chance and that's it.
No, I was arguing against those who claimed it was a transition year. Hughes and Kennedy do deserve another shot, just not with the playoffs on the line. (See dislaimer about Hughes' health though.) Why does fifteen starts and 0-7 count as only *one* chance?
[Edited by - bonn1997 on 07-28-2008 4:52 PM]
here is a pretty detailed breakdown of the mechanics of both Nady (hitting) & Marte (pitching) written by a writer that 1 of my posters knows, as well as some of his comments on what impact he thinks this trade will have... thought u guys might be interested (very interesting read):
http://www.baseball-intellect.com/Articl...
Posada just opted for surgery so he's done for the year.
Posted by TMS:
here is a pretty detailed breakdown of the mechanics of both Nady (hitting) & Marte (pitching) written by a writer that 1 of my posters knows, as well as some of his comments on what impact he thinks this trade will have... thought u guys might be interested (very interesting read):
http://www.baseball-intellect.com/Articl...
"Why the huge jump in OPS from 07 to 08? You could mostly say luck."
That doesn't sound promising. We should be expecting closer to his .790 career OPS IMO. That's still a big upgrade over what we currently had but it's only average for an outfielder.
I think we need Wasbhurn more than I realized. I'm losing a lot of trust in Ponson and Rasner.
Rasner is what he is & we all should've known from the beginning he'd only be a stopgap solution at best... there's no possible upside by having Rasner pitching for us over the longterm... he's best utilized as a long reliever & spot starter during emergencies when u'r shortstaffed.
Ponson has been a successful starter in the past so there's at least that upside that he might be able to return to some semblence of his prior form... i don't mind having him as our 5th starter in the least...
we need another starter to fill the gap until Wang comes back, whether that be Washburn, Kennedy, Aceves, Hughes or someone else.
Ponson's been a successful starter in the past. That's true. He's also been an unsuccessful starter in the past! I think his ERA for the season is deceptively low. His WHIP is high, indicating that he's getting hit pretty hard. I'm not convinced he'll keep his ERA at the 3.88 level it was when he arrived or even at the 4.50 level it's at now.
[Edited by - bonn1997 on 07-29-2008 09:17 AM]
right, & the difference is Rasner has never been much of anything in the past & never will... that's the point... u can't rely on this guy to be a longterm option... relying on Ponson is a sketchy enough proposition alone... we need a more stable arm to be our #4 guy until Wang returns to the front of our rotation.
just bring up kennedy...at least it will help us down the road...
Posted by Bonn1997:
Ponson's been a successful starter in the past. That's true. He's also been an unsuccessful starter in the past! I think his ERA for the season is deceptively low. His WHIP is high, indicating that he's getting hit pretty hard. I'm not convinced he'll keep his ERA at the 3.88 level it was when he arrived or even at the 4.50 level it's at now.
[Edited by - bonn1997 on 07-29-2008 09:17 AM]
a 4.50 #5 starter is nothing to complain about... Moose was worse last year & yet i remember a lotta fans were perfectly happy w/him as a #5 guy making $11 million.
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Ponson's been a successful starter in the past. That's true. He's also been an unsuccessful starter in the past! I think his ERA for the season is deceptively low. His WHIP is high, indicating that he's getting hit pretty hard. I'm not convinced he'll keep his ERA at the 3.88 level it was when he arrived or even at the 4.50 level it's at now.
[Edited by - bonn1997 on 07-29-2008 09:17 AM]
a 4.50 #5 starter is nothing to complain about... Moose was worse last year & yet i remember a lotta fans were perfectly happy w/him as a #5 guy making $11 million.
I agree 4.50 is nothing to complain about but also explained above why I wouldn't count on Ponson maintaining that ERA
Ponson is garbage and has been for a while now. He's way past his peak. His control has always been for the dogs and he's lost velocity. His WHIP is practically the size of some guys ERAs. At this point he has a 6.00 ERA and 1.88 WHIP with the Yanks- time to cut ties. We might be able to patch together a few more games with him, but we'd be wise to move to the next option as soon as we can.
Rasner can eat up innings ok, but he obviously can be upgraded. He's not the worst in the world for a 5th starter, but he hasn't been able to get past 5 innings in forever.
Posted by VDesai:
Ponson is garbage and has been for a while now. He's way past his peak. His control has always been for the dogs and he's lost velocity. His WHIP is practically the size of some guys ERAs. At this point he has a 6.00 ERA and 1.88 WHIP with the Yanks- time to cut ties. We might be able to patch together a few more games with him, but we'd be wise to move to the next option as soon as we can.
Rasner can eat up innings ok, but he obviously can be upgraded. He's not the worst in the world for a 5th starter, but he hasn't been able to get past 5 innings in forever.
Ideally, we'd get two new starters, but I don't expect that to happen.
Posted by VDesai:
Ponson is garbage and has been for a while now. He's way past his peak. His control has always been for the dogs and he's lost velocity. His WHIP is practically the size of some guys ERAs. At this point he has a 6.00 ERA and 1.88 WHIP with the Yanks- time to cut ties. We might be able to patch together a few more games with him, but we'd be wise to move to the next option as soon as we can.
Rasner can eat up innings ok, but he obviously can be upgraded. He's not the worst in the world for a 5th starter, but he hasn't been able to get past 5 innings in forever.
wow, he's garbage now after a bad outing? what happened to the other games where he pitched effectively for us? time to cut ties? why? he's a #5 starter doing what #5 starters do, win some games & lose some games... he's making diddly & is better than any other options we have coming up from the minors for right now... IMO Rasner needs to go back to long relief & we should give Kennedy & Aceves more time in the minors til the September callups happen... in the meantime, we should look to make a move for a short term stopgap solution for the back end of the rotation, or maybe give Dan Geise a start & see if he's any better than Ras.
Actually Ponson isn't garbage after "one bad outing", he's garbage because that's what he's been for most of his career. This guy is a fat loser. At least David Wells was fat and good. This guy just blows and always will. He's the next guy I want out of town.
until we have a better option to replace him with, he's fine.
Anybody from the minors would be a better option.
You know Hughes and Kennedy went 0-7 this year, right?
