Off Topic · Yankees Talk thread (page 95)

Posted by djsunyc:

listening to cash's interview, it's a lock that giambi + abreu are gone...

what interview? any link for the story? would love to hear it.

Posted by djsunyc:

A feisty, defiant Brian Cashman said today that he returned to the Yankees to “change the story” about where the team was headed. “We have to win,” he said. “And we will.”

Oddly, Hal Steinbrenner was not on had to give their side of the story. But Cashman said that relations between he and the Steinbrenners have improved since last winter when some moves were made he did not approve of. He also believes that they can work together moving forward.

Obviously he did not address the future of specific players, especially those FAs from outside the organization. But he warned fans against expecting the Yankees to get certain players. That means CC Sabathia.

He did say he wants Matsui to DH, Damon to play the outfield, Posada to catch and a first baseman to play first base.

i wonder which acquisitions he's referring to about hank/hal? i'm guessing bringing back jorge for 4 years and letting torre go...

[Edited by - djsunyc on 10-01-2008 2:12 PM]

those would be my guess... i'm thinking Cash probably didn't wanna go to 4 years w/Jorge but Hank overrid his decision... not every move this franchise makes are Cash's decisions.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by djsunyc:

listening to cash's interview, it's a lock that giambi + abreu are gone...

what interview? any link for the story? would love to hear it.

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/10/01/de...

[Edited by - djsunyc on 10-01-2008 2:48 PM]

thanks bro.

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by Bonn1997:

How many transition years does Cashman need? Why did the Red Sox need only 1 bad, transition year? We're talking about a GM (Cashman) who 4 years ago was given huge powers in his contract with the Yankees. So it's not like you can just let him off the hook for neglecting rebuilding all those years.

he started to rebuild the farm system 2 years ago. it takes time to develop from within. they passed on johan b/c they wanted to many of our farm hands. if ownership put that much faith in cashman's plan for our young players then there was no choice but to bring him back. now he has 3 more years to see his plan through. if he fails, he will be gone. bringing in a new person, especially from outside of the organization, imho would be a very very bad idea.

If he had full control 4 years ago (as his contract indicates) then there's no excuse for not starting to rebuild 4 years ago. I'm not even gonna get into the Johan debate again except to repeat that I think passing on that trade will be one of the worst decisions by a Yankees' GM in at least this decade and maybe much more.

everyone who thinks Cash has done nothing to help this team win championships, please listen to the audio & pay close attention to the middle portion where Cash talks about how he didn't wanna leave this franchise w/the fans buying into the misconception that he wasn't part of the dynasty teams that were built in the early-mid 90s... i've tried telling u guys the same stuff myself in the past but sometimes it's better coming from the actual source firsthand for people to finally believe it.

anyone think we got a real shot to trade for Matt Holliday? now there's a name who would fit in perfectly in RF for us & give us that big bat we need.

The buffering is taking forever. I'm not sure if I did something wrong. Is the text of the interview online?

That said, it's really easy to take credit for things you didn't do. I'm highly skeptical of anything he claims to have accomplished (and I can't help wondering why he even feels the need to tell us what he accomplished). All I do know is that Cashman has shown that if you give him 50% more resources, he still can't keep up with the Red Sox, and now 4 times the resources and he can't keep up with Tampa Bay.

Posted by Bonn1997:

The buffering is taking forever. I'm not sure if I did something wrong. Is the text of the interview online?

That said, it's really easy to take credit for things you didn't do. I'm highly skeptical of anything he claims to have accomplished (and I can't help wondering why he even feels the need to tell us what he accomplished). All I do know is that Cashman has shown that if you give him 50% more resources, he still can't keep up with the Red Sox, and now 4 times the resources and he can't keep up with Tampa Bay.

lol... dude, he didn't say anything that wasn't true... u do know that he was Bob Watson & Gene Michaels' assistant GM before he got promoted, right? that means he had a hand in all those trades & FA signings that helped to create that dynasty to begin with, like i told u before... he also helped to scout kids like Derek Jeter, Jorge Posada, Andy Pettitte, Mariano Rivera, etc. before they were even signed to our farm system... u seriously think he's gonna claim he did things he never did in a press conference in front of news reporters that are just biting at the chomp to call him out on anything he says that aren't true? the guy didn't just pop outta nowhere to become the Yankees' GM w/no qualifications or track record... gimme a break w/Tampa Bay... all they've "shown" me is that after 10 years of being the most pathetic franchise in all of baseball they finally gathered enough #1 overall picks to give their fans something to cheer about... is that the model you want this franchise to follow?

I think Yank5K on another forum made as bright a response as anyone could. So, I'm just going to quote him

cashman is upset fans/ media don't give him credit for the great run count me as one of those.

Wasn't it just last off season that Cashman was finally going to get a voice in the running of the Yanks because before that he was not given that much say in the way things were done?

So just how did he suddenly get all the credit for the great teams 1995 -2000 when he didn't become GM until 98 and that team was already in place , if he didn't get that much say when he became GM just how much input do you think he had as a assistant GM?
The story line after last season was he's never been allowed to have his way until 2008 which you'd have to make a huge reach to call 2008 a successful season the condridictions are glaring.
Wanting Cashman as GM is fine but trying to rewrite history to make him the great GM is nonsense he was by the Yanks and his own admission not allowed that much control , please have a love feast about Cashman don't let the facts about his GM eadership get in the way.
He may do a great job but if it is finally his decisions then if he succeeds it will be Brian Cashman who finally succeeds but if he fails it will also be Brian Cashman who fails before that it would appear very unlikely he had that much to with either the success or failures of the Yanks since he never was truly in charge.

I'll just add that if he wants credit for the decisions back in the mid 90s as Assistant GM, then he seemed to do a much better job in that role than the role of GM. I'd have no complaints if the Yankees offered him the Assistant GM job again. That seems like one he's more suited for.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 10-01-2008 7:35 PM]

Posted by TMS:

anyone think we got a real shot to trade for Matt Holliday? now there's a name who would fit in perfectly in RF for us & give us that big bat we need.

I was reading Bill Madden's fix today as well. The first thing that struck me is that Bill looks more eager to trade away important resources for players when we have options just as good or better elsewhere - either signing guys outside the organization through FA or retaining from within without losing ANYTHING. Weird approach to say the least considering we don't have an overabundance of tradeable assets.

Now I like Matt Holliday, the numbers look impressive, I just hope those numbers aren't skewed somewhat from playing in Denver. Truth be told, I don't watch the guy enough to know if the thin air in Denver has anything to do with his numbers being inflated - you guys would probably know better than me. It's important to look at that though. I think that may have been a factor with guys like Todd Helton and Dante Bachette for instance. Had trouble finding career Home/Away splits for these guys (Helton's been hurt and been out most of the year anyway) but here's Holliday's from 2008:

Home: 286 ABs, .332 BA, .584 SLG%, 15 HRs, 23 2Bs, 2 3Bs, 59 RBI, 167 Total Bases
Road: 253 ABs, .308 BA, .486 SLG%, 10 HRs, 15 2Bs, 0 3Bs, 29 RBI, 123 Total Bases

Road numbers are not bad at all but there is a difference home and away. Listen, the guy's a damn good player (plays good defense in left, has good speed/can steal bases, etc..) bottom line and I'd love to have him but to trade away Cano and Hughes which is what Madden thinks it would take, and on top of it, have to sign the guy to a longterm deal, I don't know.... I for one would rather hold onto Cano/Kennedy and trade them for a young established pitcher - most of us think that's what should be done. That makes the most sense. Holliday's numbers were similar to Abreu's last year - Holliday's were slightly better but again, does playing at Coors Field have anything to do with it? If Bobby Abreu goes to play in Denver next year, does he wind up hitting .320, .330? And does this proposal make sense when we can just bring back Bobby Abreu for nothing except money? This idea's not bad, but we'd be giving up a ton. If that's the price, I'd pass. There are better options.

Then Madden wants to import David DeJesus via trade. Not a bad player (he did hit over .300) but nothing about him really grabs you. Not particularly fast, doesn't hit for power, not as good defensively as Gardner & Melky.... and again, he'll cost prospects and then you'll have to sign him. Forget Gardner - he wouldn't even be in the mix anymore. And with Cano and Hughes already gone for Holliday in Madden's plan, now we'd be talking about giving up guys like Kennedy and possibly A-Jax for DeJesus. No thanks. I'd pass here as well...

Madden's other moves are fairly minor such as signing FAs Orlando Hudson to play 2nd, Greg Zaun to back up Molina while moving Posada to 1st. Hudson, like DeJesus, is a nice player (.282 career hitter) but nothing special. If we sured up other areas properly and wound up dealing a Cano package for pitching, I think we could live with Benemit/Ransom playing 2B. And Posada said on Centerstage he wants to catch and that he'll be ready. Posada should catch as long as he can, until a guy like Jesus Montero's ready for the majors which hopefully will be in a few years. Posada is a plus catcher overall, but suddenly seems quite ordinary playing 1st base, don't you think? Molina/Zaun is not enough behind the plate. I think I'd rather give Cervelli a chance over Greg Zaun.

Where Madden's plan really falls apart is with the pitching. Joba to the rotation (OK, I like that), bring back Moose (who knows here, even Girardi's talking like he might be done & Madden gives no backup plan if Moose hangs it up), Derek Lowe and Ollie Perez. That's it. And his big plan for the bullpen is bringing up Mark Melancon. Doesn't even mention keeping Marte. Come on Bill, that's it for the pitching upgrade? Some decent ideas here but not nearly enough to get us to the next level. The NY Yankees, new ballpark, with about $75 million dollars coming off the books and that's all he's prepared to do? No interest in Sabathia, Burnett, Texieria? Now that Cashman's back, I hope he doesn't use this article as a blueprint...



[Edited by - finestrg on 10-01-2008 8:00 PM]

for Cano & Hughes i would agree w/u, i'd wanna get my hands on a good young arm, not an OFer... u gotta admit tho, the guy would look awesome in a Yankee uniform... i doubt we could get him tho anyways, unless it was a trade deadline type deal & COL came to the conclusion they would not be able to re-sign him, & even so u'd have to figure there will be other offers out there from other teams looking to get him... when u look at it from the perspective u just offered, u have to think twice about giving up your 2 top assets for a guy you could wait for when he turns FA (his agent is Scott Boras & we all know he's looking to take his clients to free agency)

i agree w/u, we could live w/Betemit & Ransom at 2B if we made a good trade using Cano as a piece if we had to, but if we went that route then i'd wanna sign up O-dog as a defensive upgrade, assuming he wouldn't cost too much... having Jorge playing 1B on a regular basis really does not sit well w/me... i really hope the guy has at least 2 more years of Catching left in him, cuz i don't see him as a 1B... DH in the last year of his contract/part time catcher a-la Mike Piazza maybe.

Posted by TMS:

for Cano & Hughes i would agree w/u, i'd wanna get my hands on a good young arm, not an OFer... u gotta admit tho, the guy would look awesome in a Yankee uniform... i doubt we could get him tho anyways, unless it was a trade deadline type deal & COL came to the conclusion they would not be able to re-sign him, & even so u'd have to figure there will be other offers out there from other teams looking to get him... when u look at it from the perspective u just offered, u have to think twice about giving up your 2 top assets for a guy you could wait for when he turns FA (his agent is Scott Boras & we all know he's looking to take his clients to free agency)

i agree w/u, we could live w/Betemit & Ransom at 2B if we made a good trade using Cano as a piece if we had to, but if we went that route then i'd wanna sign up O-dog as a defensive upgrade, assuming he wouldn't cost too much... having Jorge playing 1B on a regular basis really does not sit well w/me... i really hope the guy has at least 2 more years of Catching left in him, cuz i don't see him as a 1B... DH in the last year of his contract/part time catcher a-la Mike Piazza maybe.

Back to Matt Holliday for a sec. Over at pinstripeplus.com, subscriber KennyH123 offered the following: "he's a National Leaguer, plays in sky high Colorado and just won't be that great at sea level. In 339 games on the road, he's got 44 home runs total. Versus 84 at home. HUGE difference. And while he hits .357 at home, he's at a much more modest .280 on the road." Another member, JetsFanatic89, remarked: ".997 ops at home, .891 on road this year...and that's probably the best he's ever played on the road in his career. He's just a different player away from Coors." See this is what I was afraid of. Skewed numbers playing at Coors Field - apparently there is something to it. To trade Cano/Hughes and whoever else to get this guy, have to sign him long-term, and then not get back the production you thought you were getting & not even get any pitching back from Colorado??? You gotta pass on this...

Yeah Cano, Hughes, Kennedy - if you deal these guys, I'd have to get some quality established pitching in return. Just reading Buster Olney's column over at ESPN and he thinks Jake Peavy and Zack Greinke might be available:

"Jake Peavy, Padres: He won the 2007 Cy Young Award and posted a solid 10-11 record with a 2.85 ERA and 166 strikeouts in 173 2/3 innings this season. He is under contract for the next four seasons, at salaries of $8 million, $15 million, $16 million and $17 million (with a $22 million option for 2013). But he has become increasingly vocal in his frustration with the Padres, and with the team reducing its payroll to something in the neighborhood of $50 million this year, Peavy's salary will increasingly become top-heavy within the San Diego budget. General manager Kevin Towers has been quoted as saying the Padres have no untouchable players, and there are executives who say they think Peavy could be taken for the right package of prospects. Peavy has a full no-trade clause and would have to agree to any deal.
Zack Greinke, Royals: In retrospect, he probably was rushed to the big leagues, and he lost almost a full year while coping with his anxiety problem; at age 24 (he turns 25 in three weeks), Greinke already has four-plus years in the big leagues, leaving him two years away from free agency. Given his talent and his improvement over the past two seasons, he has put himself in position for a huge payday -- maybe the kind of money that the Royals don't typically spend. To put this in perspective, remember that Daisuke Matsuzaka got $52 million at age 26 in a situation when he had no true free-agent leverage. If Greinke, who went 13-10 with a 3.47 ERA for the Royals this year, has a good season in 2009, he will be in line for a Carlos Zambrano-like $90 million deal."

Interesting. Olney speculates that it's about 75/25 that the Pads deal Peavy. Some of the fellas over at pinstripe were talking about getting Peavy AND Adrian Gonzalez from the Padres. That'd be something huh? How 'bout something like Cano, Hughes, Kennedy & Juan Miranda for this package. It would take more probably to get this done (Melancon, Kevin Whelan or Humberto Sanchez??? - Hoffman's practically done and they're gonna need some help at the back of that bullpen) but we should start there. Or maybe you just offer Cano & Hughes for Peavy, forget Adrian Gonzalez and just try and sign Mark Teixeria. Either way, I'm interested. One of Cash's first phone calls should be to San Diego.


[Edited by - finestrg on 10-02-2008 11:13 AM]

i would bust a virtual nut if we got our hands on Jake Peavy bro... i'd easily give up anyone they'd want other than Joba for him... for Grienke i'd give up Cano or Hughes, but not both... i love that Padres idea tho, good call... hopefully Cash will be able to get some things done w/them, but i'm definitely not holding my breathe on getting Peavy... the guy's the best young pitcher in the game, i seriously doubt we'll be able to get him, but who knows i guess.

Posted by Finestrg:

Posted by TMS:

for Cano & Hughes i would agree w/u, i'd wanna get my hands on a good young arm, not an OFer... u gotta admit tho, the guy would look awesome in a Yankee uniform... i doubt we could get him tho anyways, unless it was a trade deadline type deal & COL came to the conclusion they would not be able to re-sign him, & even so u'd have to figure there will be other offers out there from other teams looking to get him... when u look at it from the perspective u just offered, u have to think twice about giving up your 2 top assets for a guy you could wait for when he turns FA (his agent is Scott Boras & we all know he's looking to take his clients to free agency)

i agree w/u, we could live w/Betemit & Ransom at 2B if we made a good trade using Cano as a piece if we had to, but if we went that route then i'd wanna sign up O-dog as a defensive upgrade, assuming he wouldn't cost too much... having Jorge playing 1B on a regular basis really does not sit well w/me... i really hope the guy has at least 2 more years of Catching left in him, cuz i don't see him as a 1B... DH in the last year of his contract/part time catcher a-la Mike Piazza maybe.

Back to Matt Holliday for a sec. Over at pinstripeplus.com, subscriber KennyH123 offered the following: "he's a National Leaguer, plays in sky high Colorado and just won't be that great at sea level. In 339 games on the road, he's got 44 home runs total. Versus 84 at home. HUGE difference. And while he hits .357 at home, he's at a much more modest .280 on the road." Another member, JetsFanatic89, remarked: ".997 ops at home, .891 on road this year...and that's probably the best he's ever played on the road in his career. He's just a different player away from Coors." See this is what I was afraid of. Skewed numbers playing at Coors Field - apparently there is something to it. To trade Cano/Hughes and whoever else to get this guy, have to sign him long-term, and then not get back the production you thought you were getting & not even get any pitching back from Colorado??? You gotta pass on this...

Yeah Cano, Hughes, Kennedy - if you deal these guys, I'd have to get some quality established pitching in return. Just reading Buster Olney's column over at ESPN and he thinks Jake Peavy and Zack Greinke might be available:

"Jake Peavy, Padres: He won the 2007 Cy Young Award and posted a solid 10-11 record with a 2.85 ERA and 166 strikeouts in 173 2/3 innings this season. He is under contract for the next four seasons, at salaries of $8 million, $15 million, $16 million and $17 million (with a $22 million option for 2013). But he has become increasingly vocal in his frustration with the Padres, and with the team reducing its payroll to something in the neighborhood of $50 million this year, Peavy's salary will increasingly become top-heavy within the San Diego budget. General manager Kevin Towers has been quoted as saying the Padres have no untouchable players, and there are executives who say they think Peavy could be taken for the right package of prospects. Peavy has a full no-trade clause and would have to agree to any deal.
Zack Greinke, Royals: In retrospect, he probably was rushed to the big leagues, and he lost almost a full year while coping with his anxiety problem; at age 24 (he turns 25 in three weeks), Greinke already has four-plus years in the big leagues, leaving him two years away from free agency. Given his talent and his improvement over the past two seasons, he has put himself in position for a huge payday -- maybe the kind of money that the Royals don't typically spend. To put this in perspective, remember that Daisuke Matsuzaka got $52 million at age 26 in a situation when he had no true free-agent leverage. If Greinke, who went 13-10 with a 3.47 ERA for the Royals this year, has a good season in 2009, he will be in line for a Carlos Zambrano-like $90 million deal."

Interesting. Olney speculates that it's about 75/25 that the Pads deal Peavy. Some of the fellas over at pinstripe were talking about getting Peavy AND Adrian Gonzalez from the Padres. That'd be something huh? How 'bout something like Cano, Hughes, Kennedy & Juan Miranda for this package. It would take more probably to get this done (Melancon, Kevin Whelan or Humberto Sanchez??? - Hoffman's practically done and they're gonna need some help at the back of that bullpen) but we should start there. Or maybe you just offer Cano & Hughes for Peavy, forget Adrian Gonzalez and just try and sign Mark Teixeria. Either way, I'm interested. One of Cash's first phone calls should be to San Diego.


[Edited by - finestrg on 10-02-2008 11:13 AM]

Good find, Fine! I would do that package in a heartbeat for those 2 guys, but I think it's going to take more than that. I think Peavy alone would command that package, but throw in Adrian Gonzalez who is a 25 year old power-hitting 1st baseman and he commands a package almost similar. Joba would HAVE to be involved in any trade for both of those guys, no doubt in my mind.

I love Joba but giving him up in a package that brought us a young star hitter and a young Cy Young level pitcher is something you'd have to do. There's still a lot of uncertainty surrounding Joba, and the odds are slim that he'll actually become a better pitcher than Peavy (though it certainly is possible). We don't even know how his arm will hold up after throwing 210 mlb innings or maybe 230 if the team goes deep in the playoffs.

I hear what you guys are saying & you're probably right - Peavy/Gonzalez is tremendous value and no doubt the first thing they'd ask for, like anyone else, would be Joba Chamberlain. But Cash, provided he ever does engage in conversation with San Diego, has to shoot that down right away. I want to add at least one frontline starter (two would be nice) to a rotation WITH CHAMBERLAIN, not in lieu of (hopefully 1 from a Cano trade, 1 via free agency). I'm not prepared to swing anything for Joba, I don't care who's being offered. For me, there are very few guys in the minors and even on the big league roster that are untouchable. Joba's definitely one of them though as far as I'm concerned. Maybe Jesus Montero, A-Jax & Dellin Betances depending on who's being offered. After that, anything can be worked out. Joba was injured last year and that's a concern, but he came back strong and pitched effective out of the pen to close out the season (even though the velocity was down a tick, but that may have been by design). Joba, injury aside, has proven to me that he's a top-flight pitcher. Proven at the major league level. Dominant at the ML level in fact. You've got to hold onto that at all costs - even for a phenomenal package like Jake Peavy and Adrian Gonzalez. Joba's a piece that we have to build around and add to not subtract to get something similar, especially when you consider that free agency might not work out the way we want it to (like I've been saying, we have a good realistic shot at getting Mark Texieria I would think but who knows if we'll be able to land the pitching we need - Sabathia or Burnett. Rumor has it that CC wants to stay in the NL and preferably somewhere on the west coast - word is he enjoys hitting and that he'd rather pitch against the weaker NL lineups w/o the DH. And suppose the Blue Jays pony up and offer AJ Burnett a real nice deal to stay, which I could see happening - I mean how does JP Ricciardi save face with his fanbase if he winds up losing Burnett to a team within the division like the Yankees when the only thing involved is money???)

If Buster Olney's right and Peavy has been voicing his displeasure with the Padres' organization and has demanded a trade it shouldn't even take Joba to get something done (Olney's saying it's 75/25 that they wind up dealing him - that sounds like two sides that aren't on the same page anymore to me. You would think with the cat out of the bag like that the Pads don't exactly have the same amount of leverage in a potential deal involving Peavy that they may have had before). They might be inclined to take a Cano/Hughes/Kennedy package for Peavy - which, make no mistake, is a good package - a young all-star caliber 2nd baseman in his prime and 2 B+ pitching prospects. Which would be fine with me though - Hughes and Kennedy do have potential but, unlike Joba, they are completely unproven at the ML level thusfar. That's uncertainty the Yankees don't need but something the Padres might be willing to be patient waiting for especially if Peavy's been raising hell over there like it's been reported. Maybe you even throw in a Kevin Whelan or Humberto Sanchez for bullpen help to cement a deal (two power arms, either one of these guys could be groomed to close eventually). I could live with that.

The more I think about it, the price for Peavy and Adrian Gonzalez together will probably be way too steep. It might make more sense for us to concentrate on just Peavy or maybe Peavy/Edgar Gonzalez (maybe get a 2nd basemen out of it - Edgar would be expendable if they got Cano). Then just turn around and sign Mark Teixeria to play 1st. Maybe that's the way to go. But trading Joba's not an option for me.

Talking with San Diego is just one trade option. Everything else has got to be explored simultaneously. Chad Billingsley (who looked awesome the other night btw), Zack Grienke, Matt Cain, Jonathan Sanchez, Roy Oswalt... Olney even thinks the Yankees should call up the Indians and see if Fausto Carmona might be available. I'm glad to hear Hal Steinbrenner come out and say that they're not gonna leave one stone unturned. Great because that's how they need to approach it.


[Edited by - finestrg on 10-05-2008 8:28 PM]

we can get away w/a consolation FA at 1B if we don't sign Mark T... no need to give up the farm to trade for one... Peavy on the other hand is a huge commodity, so it's gonna take a huge package to land him in a trade... but i agree w/u, trading away Joba would be the dumbest move the Yankees could make... no way i give him up for anyone.

btw, it's good to have Hal be the one doing the talking for a change & not Hank... maybe they finally put the muzzle on Hank & locked him away in some corner office someplace.

You're confident Joba's gonna be better than someone who is a young starter who has already won the Cy Young? That's certainly possible but so is the idea that Joba might not ever be able to last full 210 inning seasons. So is the possibility that his arm does hold up as well as someone whose arm we already does hold up well after several consecutive 200 inning seasons. There are so many questions with Joba (as with any pitcher who is very young) that have already been answered for Peavy. If any one of those issues that Peavy has successfully addressed become problems for Joba, then passing on this type of trade would be a big mistake. At the same time, what's the benefit to keeping Joba over Peavy? The extremely low chance that he'll be better than Peavy? Maybe a multi-year Cy Young Award winner by age 27? Again, it's NOT impossible but it is a poor gamble IMO. I'm just using the same reasoning I used with Kennedy and Hughes last year. (And no, I'm not by any means equating Joba and Hughes/Kennedy. I am applying the same belief, though, that you can't have the same trust in small samples that you can in large samples.)

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 10-06-2008 5:19 PM]

what's the benefit to keeping Joba over Peavy?

for 1 thing, he's a home grown product & that's always a plus to any organization... second, he's 5 years younger than Jake Peavy & has already shown dominant stuff at the ML level... when u get a chance look up Joba's #'s in his 1st 2 ML seasons & compare them to Peavy's... Peavy has been the durable one, no question about it, but Joba's been more dominant starting off his career than Peavy was... hitters are just .217 lifetime vs. Joba, even better than what they're hitting vs. Peavy, & he's great in his own right at .232... not sure where u get the idea there's a slim chance Joba would be better than Peavy someday... i think there's a pretty good chance he will be just as good if not better... i dunno if u ever thought Peavy would be this good after he posted an ERA in the 4's in his 2nd season, did u?

don't get it twisted tho, i'm not saying Peavy's not an elite pitching talent, he is a definite ace, no question about it, but a guy like Joba comes along very rarely in any organization's draft class... u can't give up guys like that... also, consider the fact that he's locked up to rookie level dollars for a few more years... Peavy's making $6.5 mil & pretty soon he'll be looking for a huge payday, probably more than Johan money if u consider the inflation in annual market prices for quality talent.

i'm sorry but Joba is an absolute untouchable right now in my eyes, i don't care who we're talking about.