Off Topic · OT: Yankees get Teixiera (page 4)

All these haters need to grow a pair...

Regardless of the money or what you think of Tex- there's relatively little downside to this move and not much to not like. Consider that the Yankees were still under budget relatively to last year, still needed another big bat and certainly had a hole to fill at first base. In this move they got a guy that was considered to be one of the best hitting prospects in the past decade and a guy who's been a really good hitter in the majors right in his prime to play first base. Even if he can't "hack it" that well in NYC- where exactly would he fall too? He's got a good batting eye and plenty of power. Even 20% below his best he's still a big impact bat. It makes sense. I thought the biggest impact bat over the next 3 seasons by a decent margin was Manny- but the Yanks went more long term here. Without a salary cap and the huge spike in revenue that the new stadium will bring even in a recession, the Yanks had cash to burn here and went out and got a good player with it. And maybe they still might get Manny- who knows.

I personally think the Yankees aren't done remaking the lineup. Now they have a guy in Swisher who's a useful piece and attractive trade bait to pair with some young pitchers because of his cost and potential to play everyday and be productive. You better a believe a team like Houston (could they have to sell on Berkman?), or the more middle-tier franchises would be interested in that. In addition, they could move a guy like Matsui to Seattle or San Fran (who could use the revenue he brings in) to shed some more cash and open up room for younger stars and other bats.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove08...

Yankees need to sign Manny -- now!
The last time the New York Yankees won a World Series, Bill Clinton was president, nobody outside Chicago knew of Barack Obama, the Boston Red Sox were considered a cursed franchise and then-Yankees manager Joe Torre had a full head of hair.


I think!

A lot of things have changed since this millennium began, but the Yankees have been fairly consistent. Basically, winning around 97 games per season, spending significant chunks of money to do it, making annual visits to the postseason -- before departing without the world championship most presumed they'd already bought and paid for.

Over … and over … and over again.

From losses to Anaheim, Boston and Detroit in the playoffs, to more losses at the hands of Arizona and Florida in the World Series, many native New Yorkers -- of which I am one -- wouldn't hesitate to admit those defeats are entirely too painful, too vivid, to recall or discuss.

Well, here's a thought: Maybe this championship futility will change if the Yankees come to their senses and sign Manny Ramirez.

It's no secret the Yankees went out and spent $246 million on CC Sabathia and A.J. Burnett. And now that they've reportedly added another $180 million over the next eight years to their payroll to keep Mark Teixeira away from the Red Sox, the catcalls of "Enough is enough" will come screeching through the franchise's ears.

But since the Yankees don't know how to win unless they spend money, that's just not an option.

Yes, Teixeira's in New York. Yes, he can hit. Yes, he's an upgrade from Jason Giambi. But he's not Manny Ramirez.

Besides, the Yankees never worried about dollars before, so there's no need to have an attack of conscience now.

It's bad enough there hasn't been a title in the Bronx or an October Broadway ticker tape parade since 2000. But the fact that Boston has celebrated two world titles in that span, erasing an 86-year curse in the process, is downright blasphemous and needs to be addressed. Particularly since the first of those championships came courtesy of a historic Yankees collapse.

So desperate times call for desperate measures. In this case, "desperate" could be defined as bringing aboard a deplorable outfielder with a suspect work ethic.

To that, I say, let's watch Ramirez saunter into the new Yankee Stadium and smack 50 home runs in the cleanup spot. Then come tell me what issues New Yorkers should have with a combustible attitude that, quite frankly, mirrors their own.

[+] EnlargeHarry How/Getty Images

Even with all the antics that come along with Manny Ramirez, the Yankees should absolutely sign him.
ESPN's own Buster Olney's usual crack reporting on all things baseball has determined there's no truth to rumors that the Yankees have entertained pursuing Ramirez at a price tag of three years for $75 million.

Meanwhile, venom is being aimed at anyone publicly advocating investing in Ramirez, treating him like he's taboo, persona non grata.

Call the Yankees flat-out fools if they pay a speck of attention to a word of this nonsense.

This is about winning, folks! And I'm not talking about the stretch of seasons from 2001 to 2007 when the Yankees won a minimum of 94 games, before settling for 89 wins this past fall. I'm talking about the world championships those Red Sox captured this decade. The titles they would not have captured were it not for a few of those 274 homers Ramirez hit for them over the course of his eight seasons in Boston.

If Ramirez's production after being traded to the Dodgers on July 31 -- .396 batting average, 17 homers, 53 RBIs and .743 slugging percentage in 53 games -- wasn't enough, perhaps it's worth paying attention to what the Yankees' offensive output was this past season.

They were 10th in the majors in runs scored (4.87 per game), tied for ninth in homers (180) and tied for sixth in batting average (.271). And they missed the postseason for the first time since 1996.

Now, imagine if Ramirez and his .314 lifetime batting average were lumped into that lineup. Backing up Alex Rodriguez. Acting as a catalyst for Robinson Cano. And Hideki Matsui, Derek Jeter and Jorge Posada. Imagine, for a moment, the run production. The fear it would instill.

And before anyone even thinks about it, let it be said that defense, for once, is not paramount in this equation -- even with the potential of Ramirez in left field and Johnny Damon, Xavier Nady and their water-pistol arms making up the rest of the outfield.

The Yankees just went out and got aces CC Sabathia and A.J. Burnett to assist Chien-Ming Wang and buffer the rotation. And they didn't do it just to move Joba Chamberlain back to the bullpen to set up Mariano Rivera.


Well, here's a thought: Maybe this championship futility will change if the Yankees come to their senses and sign Manny Ramirez.
They did it to improve on being ranked 15th in baseball in ERA (4.28) and 13th in runs allowed per game (4.49). They did it to place themselves in position to compete with Josh Beckett, Jon Lester and anyone else Boston throws at them.

And speaking of those characters, think of how the Red Sox might perform if they had one of their own to deal with and a crown on the line. Someone menacing and prolific at familiar Fenway? With big-time attitude to boot?

You think Ramirez needs motivation to play against the Red Sox 19 times a season? Or face them in the postseason? Anyone who thinks for a second that Ramirez hasn't paid attention to all the vitriol spewing out of the Red Sox organization -- specifically, the mouth of manager Terry Francona, no matter how laid-back he wants everyone to believe he is -- is living on Fantasy Island.

Stars respond to this kind of insidious criticism, especially when it's costing them money in the free-agent market the way it's costing Ramirez.

Regardless of his trifling behavior, tardiness and inexcusable nonchalance regarding basic sportsmanship -- I'm specifically thinking of Ramirez's refusal to play against the Yankees because of a knee injury that never showed up on an MRI -- Manny will have no problem finding his focus.

He's arguably the greatest right-handed hitter in the game today.

He's motivated, so much so that he might even sign an incentive-laden contract.

So damn it, sign the man.

Now, please!

Bring the George Washington High School star back home. Dare him to fail. And use the Red Sox as your ultimate bargaining chip.

I'm betting he'll produce big time, hit his 700th career home run before he hangs up his pinstripes and bring a World Series title back to New York in the process.

Who knows? He'll probably help A-Rod show up in October, too.

Now that's a merry Christmas wish!

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 12-23-2008 10:00 PM]

Posted by Bonn1997:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove08...

Yankees need to sign Manny -- now!
The last time the New York Yankees won a World Series, Bill Clinton was president, nobody outside Chicago knew of Barack Obama, the Boston Red Sox were considered a cursed franchise and then-Yankees manager Joe Torre had a full head of hair.


I think!

A lot of things have changed since this millennium began, but the Yankees have been fairly consistent. Basically, winning around 97 games per season, spending significant chunks of money to do it, making annual visits to the postseason -- before departing without the world championship most presumed they'd already bought and paid for.

Over … and over … and over again.

From losses to Anaheim, Boston and Detroit in the playoffs, to more losses at the hands of Arizona and Florida in the World Series, many native New Yorkers -- of which I am one -- wouldn't hesitate to admit those defeats are entirely too painful, too vivid, to recall or discuss.

Well, here's a thought: Maybe this championship futility will change if the Yankees come to their senses and sign Manny Ramirez.

It's no secret the Yankees went out and spent $246 million on CC Sabathia and A.J. Burnett. And now that they've reportedly added another $180 million over the next eight years to their payroll to keep Mark Teixeira away from the Red Sox, the catcalls of "Enough is enough" will come screeching through the franchise's ears.

But since the Yankees don't know how to win unless they spend money, that's just not an option.

Yes, Teixeira's in New York. Yes, he can hit. Yes, he's an upgrade from Jason Giambi. But he's not Manny Ramirez.

Besides, the Yankees never worried about dollars before, so there's no need to have an attack of conscience now.

It's bad enough there hasn't been a title in the Bronx or an October Broadway ticker tape parade since 2000. But the fact that Boston has celebrated two world titles in that span, erasing an 86-year curse in the process, is downright blasphemous and needs to be addressed. Particularly since the first of those championships came courtesy of a historic Yankees collapse.

So desperate times call for desperate measures. In this case, "desperate" could be defined as bringing aboard a deplorable outfielder with a suspect work ethic.

To that, I say, let's watch Ramirez saunter into the new Yankee Stadium and smack 50 home runs in the cleanup spot. Then come tell me what issues New Yorkers should have with a combustible attitude that, quite frankly, mirrors their own.

[+] EnlargeHarry How/Getty Images

Even with all the antics that come along with Manny Ramirez, the Yankees should absolutely sign him.
ESPN's own Buster Olney's usual crack reporting on all things baseball has determined there's no truth to rumors that the Yankees have entertained pursuing Ramirez at a price tag of three years for $75 million.

Meanwhile, venom is being aimed at anyone publicly advocating investing in Ramirez, treating him like he's taboo, persona non grata.

Call the Yankees flat-out fools if they pay a speck of attention to a word of this nonsense.

This is about winning, folks! And I'm not talking about the stretch of seasons from 2001 to 2007 when the Yankees won a minimum of 94 games, before settling for 89 wins this past fall. I'm talking about the world championships those Red Sox captured this decade. The titles they would not have captured were it not for a few of those 274 homers Ramirez hit for them over the course of his eight seasons in Boston.

If Ramirez's production after being traded to the Dodgers on July 31 -- .396 batting average, 17 homers, 53 RBIs and .743 slugging percentage in 53 games -- wasn't enough, perhaps it's worth paying attention to what the Yankees' offensive output was this past season.

They were 10th in the majors in runs scored (4.87 per game), tied for ninth in homers (180) and tied for sixth in batting average (.271). And they missed the postseason for the first time since 1996.

Now, imagine if Ramirez and his .314 lifetime batting average were lumped into that lineup. Backing up Alex Rodriguez. Acting as a catalyst for Robinson Cano. And Hideki Matsui, Derek Jeter and Jorge Posada. Imagine, for a moment, the run production. The fear it would instill.

And before anyone even thinks about it, let it be said that defense, for once, is not paramount in this equation -- even with the potential of Ramirez in left field and Johnny Damon, Xavier Nady and their water-pistol arms making up the rest of the outfield.

The Yankees just went out and got aces CC Sabathia and A.J. Burnett to assist Chien-Ming Wang and buffer the rotation. And they didn't do it just to move Joba Chamberlain back to the bullpen to set up Mariano Rivera.


Well, here's a thought: Maybe this championship futility will change if the Yankees come to their senses and sign Manny Ramirez.
They did it to improve on being ranked 15th in baseball in ERA (4.28) and 13th in runs allowed per game (4.49). They did it to place themselves in position to compete with Josh Beckett, Jon Lester and anyone else Boston throws at them.

And speaking of those characters, think of how the Red Sox might perform if they had one of their own to deal with and a crown on the line. Someone menacing and prolific at familiar Fenway? With big-time attitude to boot?

You think Ramirez needs motivation to play against the Red Sox 19 times a season? Or face them in the postseason? Anyone who thinks for a second that Ramirez hasn't paid attention to all the vitriol spewing out of the Red Sox organization -- specifically, the mouth of manager Terry Francona, no matter how laid-back he wants everyone to believe he is -- is living on Fantasy Island.

Stars respond to this kind of insidious criticism, especially when it's costing them money in the free-agent market the way it's costing Ramirez.

Regardless of his trifling behavior, tardiness and inexcusable nonchalance regarding basic sportsmanship -- I'm specifically thinking of Ramirez's refusal to play against the Yankees because of a knee injury that never showed up on an MRI -- Manny will have no problem finding his focus.

He's arguably the greatest right-handed hitter in the game today.

He's motivated, so much so that he might even sign an incentive-laden contract.

So damn it, sign the man.

Now, please!

Bring the George Washington High School star back home. Dare him to fail. And use the Red Sox as your ultimate bargaining chip.

I'm betting he'll produce big time, hit his 700th career home run before he hangs up his pinstripes and bring a World Series title back to New York in the process.

Who knows? He'll probably help A-Rod show up in October, too.

Now that's a merry Christmas wish!

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 12-23-2008 10:00 PM]

Couldn't agree more. This would merely put their payroll right around where it was last year. So if they could afford it last year in their old stadium, surely they can afford it this year with those $2500 seats selling fast

Boston had the 2nd highest payroll in 2007.

For all the complaining that they could do, they were able to afford Tex but as always, they didn't go the extra mile to sign a star player. They are in no position to complain about the Yankees' payroll. If they had shelled out the extra $10 million to land Tex, they would be as solid of a contender as any other team.

Henry is just trying to cover his ass right now for being cheap.

the Red Sux were willing to go to 8 years $160 to try & lowball Mark Tex into signing there thinking the Yankees were clearly out of the bidding after they'd landed their top 2 targets in free agency... then they refuse to up their bid when Boras tells them he's got a better offer from another team, & now they're crying about losing out on him.

hey Boston fans, it's called a free market system... if u don't wanna pay the fare, don't come crying when someone else does.

Posted by s3231:

Boston had the 2nd highest payroll in 2007.

For all the complaining that they could do, they were able to afford Tex but as always, they didn't go the extra mile to sign a star player. They are in no position to complain about the Yankees' payroll. If they had shelled out the extra $10 million to land Tex, they would be as solid of a contender as any other team.

Henry is just trying to cover his ass right now for being cheap.

The extra $10 mil? Do you mean that they offered him $170 mil and we offered $180 mil? Like TMS said, I think the offer was $160 mil and who knows if they could afford the extra $20 mil?

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 12-23-2008 10:09 PM]

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by s3231:

Boston had the 2nd highest payroll in 2007.

For all the complaining that they could do, they were able to afford Tex but as always, they didn't go the extra mile to sign a star player. They are in no position to complain about the Yankees' payroll. If they had shelled out the extra $10 million to land Tex, they would be as solid of a contender as any other team.

Henry is just trying to cover his ass right now for being cheap.

The extra $10 mil? Do you mean that they offered him $170 mil and we offered $180 mil? Like TMS said, I think the offer was $160 mil and who knows if they could afford the extra $20 mil?

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 12-23-2008 10:09 PM]

Yeah, from what I've read, they were willing to go up to $170 million.
http://
http://www.bostonherald.com...

Some are saying that it was only $160 million, but I think that was when Boston left the table. My impression is that they went up to 170 in recent days.

[Edited by - s3231 on 12-23-2008 10:11 PM]

This link, from an article written today, also says it was $170 million:

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseb...

Yesterday, the Sox upgraded their offer slightly, to eight years and $170 million. The Sox, also set a timetable for late last night for Boras and Teixeira to accept the offer or move on.

[Edited by - s3231 on 12-23-2008 10:13 PM]

regardless if it was 160 or 170, they had to know Tex's value would well exceed 20 mil per in this market... the only one the Boston fans should be angry at should be John Henry, not the Yankees for doing what their owner wasn't willing to do.

hey John Henry

Agreed.

I think Henry deserves all the blame. This isn't the first time he has gotten cheap and hurt his franchise because of it (anyone remember how close A-Rod was to going to the Red Sox?).

Posted by s3231:

Agreed.

I think Henry deserves all the blame. This isn't the first time he has gotten cheap and hurt his franchise because of it (anyone remember how close A-Rod was to going to the Red Sox?).

things turned out fine for them w/o ARod as it turns out but u gotta laugh at all the whiners back then when the Yankees stepped up to the plate & made the ARod trade when the Red Sux couldn't get it done because they were trying to squeeze ARod to give back money on his contract... who knows if this is gonna land the Yankees a championship anytime soon but it's ridiculous how angry all the Yankee haters get whenever the Yankees choose to spend their own money... they need to be venting that anger at their own ownership for not doing the same.

Exactly.

They got lucky with the A-Rod situation and ended up being better off because of the cheapness. However, as we just saw, ownership will hurt them more times than not when they don't go the extra mile to bring in a star player.

They needed Tex badly too. They got extremely lucky this season with the production that they got from Youkilis and Pedroia. They will not get that same production again this season and after losing Manny, they really needed another big bat.

Problem is, Henry doesn't realize that sometimes you have to overpay in FA to do what is right for your team.

i love the yankees and i really want to care about baseball again, but i think MLB needs a salary cap. best case scenario would be something like the NFL. MLB needs parity. too many great franchises like the pirates and reds and twins and As that can't compete because of finances. it's no fun being a yankees fan: if they win i feel guilty, if they lose they are a bunch of overpaid bums. i'd like to root for a team. the yankees of the mid 90s were a TEAM that came up together and added some parts, but were mainly a team. look at the phillies that won it all - that's a team. we have a collection of all-stars who don't know each other. i'll root for these new guys, but my bet is they won't feel like a team any time soon.

I think a lot of people are being unfair about the Yakees additions...

For years they had been paying for top level talent that underperformed as they aged, now their contracts came off the books and the Yankees are simply replacing these slots with top level talent.

Based on the value of their contracts at the time of signing, the following analysis should give some balanced perspective.

Mussina signed one of the highest salaries for his position in 2000
Replaced with:
Sabathia

Pavano signed one of the highest salaries for his position in 2004
Replaced with:
Burnett

Giambi signed for an MVP type contract in 2001
Replaced with: replaced with Texiera

Overpaid set-up men Hawkins, Farnsworth
Replaced with an over-paid Marte

The Yankees are still letting go & not replacing:
Abreu who signed an elite salary with the Phillies in 2002



The Yankees have upgraded obsolete pieces, but have not paid proportionally more for this talent.
They will still spend less this year than last, and will by next year lose the salaries of Damon, (a resigned) Pettitte, Nady

When considering these terms, it merely becomes clear that the Yankees were paying for diminishing returns over the last 3 years because players were not playing to the level of their contracts due to injuries and age...


I do believe however, unlike much of the country, that the Yankees spending is democratic, as they have more fan's and their fans pay more to support their team... why shouldn't fans that support their team in greater number be rewarded in ratio for their support through their Team's ability to target elite talent to replace old over-paid cogs?!

Posted by colorfl1:

I think a lot of people are being unfair about the Yakees additions...

For years they had been paying for top level talent that underperformed as they aged, now their contracts came off the books and the Yankees are simply replacing these slots with top level talent.

Based on the value of their contracts at the time of signing, the following analysis should give some balanced perspective.

Mussina signed one of the highest salaries for his position in 2000
Replaced with:
Sabathia

Pavano signed one of the highest salaries for his position in 2004
Replaced with:
Burnett

Giambi signed for an MVP type contract in 2001
Replaced with: replaced with Texiera

Overpaid set-up men Hawkins, Farnsworth
Replaced with an over-paid Marte

The Yankees are still letting go & not replacing:
Abreu who signed an elite salary with the Phillies in 2002



The Yankees have upgraded obsolete pieces, but have not paid proportionally more for this talent.
They will still spend less this year than last, and will by next year lose the salaries of Damon, (a resigned) Pettitte, Nady

When considering these terms, it merely becomes clear that the Yankees were paying for diminishing returns over the last 3 years because players were not playing to the level of their contracts due to injuries and age...


I do believe however, unlike much of the country, that the Yankees spending is democratic, as they have more fan's and their fans pay more to support their team... why shouldn't fans that support their team in greater number be rewarded in ratio for their support through their Team's ability to target elite talent to replace old over-paid cogs?!

i agree wholeheartedly w/that... that's exactly how Max Kellerman looks at the situation... NYC is the biggest market in sports & has the most fans per capita than any other, why shouldn't they spend the most when they're taking in the most profits from those same fans that root for their teams? the Yanks ain't doing anything outside of the rules, if the owners are so upset over how the Yankees spend then they need to enact a hard cap just like in the NFL... until that day the Yankees should keep on doing exactly what they've been doing over the entire history of their franchise.

the Yankees have always targetted the big ticket names via trade & in free agency & based on their past record of success i'd say they've been doing a fine job of managing their own franchise... from the days of Babe Ruth to the days of Catfish Hunter, Reggie Jackson, Dave Winfield, to the current days of the Jeters, ARods, Giambis, Mussinas & now CC & Mark Teixeira the Yankees have always had the highest priced marquee names in the game & it's never gonna change... i don't remember a time in the Yankees' franchise's history when they weren't among the top payrolls in sports & that's exactly how it should be when u consider the market they play in & how much revenue they earn.

it's just not fun. i hope this isn't what it feels like to be a knicks fan in 2010.

Posted by crzymdups:

it's just not fun. i hope this isn't what it feels like to be a knicks fan in 2010.

so what's fun? no post season in the 80's for the Yanks? the Layden and Isiah era's?

I seriously don't get it....Would you rather be a Cubs fan?

Posted by s3231:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by s3231:

Boston had the 2nd highest payroll in 2007.

For all the complaining that they could do, they were able to afford Tex but as always, they didn't go the extra mile to sign a star player. They are in no position to complain about the Yankees' payroll. If they had shelled out the extra $10 million to land Tex, they would be as solid of a contender as any other team.

Henry is just trying to cover his ass right now for being cheap.

The extra $10 mil? Do you mean that they offered him $170 mil and we offered $180 mil? Like TMS said, I think the offer was $160 mil and who knows if they could afford the extra $20 mil?

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 12-23-2008 10:09 PM]

Yeah, from what I've read, they were willing to go up to $170 million.
http://
http://www.bostonherald.com...

Some are saying that it was only $160 million, but I think that was when Boston left the table. My impression is that they went up to 170 in recent days.

[Edited by - s3231 on 12-23-2008 10:11 PM]

Fair enough; I suppose it's possible they could afford $170 mil but not $180 mil and made a rational calculated decision but that seems unlikely.

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by nyk4ever:

Just saw it on the bottomline of ESPN. Buster Olney reporting it.

I'm not a big Tex fan at all... the guy was more interested in playing with the Nationals or the Orioles until the Yankees probably blew him away with money.

he always wanted to play for ny (he idolized mattingly). that's why he came back to us.

haha sure. or the angels pulled out, red sox wouldn't up their offer, and all that was left with the nationals...cue the yanks are the place i always wanted to be talk.money