Off Topic · Proof the Bombs not planes took down WTC (page 4)

firefly wrote:If someone comes into our house and starts spreading his beliefs and those beliefs match the above sentance then yeah, you damn right I want them banned too.

You are gonna decide what people can and cannot post? Tomorrow you will disagree with something I say and you will want me banned? The article he posted was not directed towards you personally.

Something did explode--a plane. The building collapsed because that heat compromised the building's structural integrity.

I would say everyone's description was, at best, vague. Things like "it sounded like an explosion" or "the subways colliding" were used because people heard of that happening. I highly doubt anyone had previously witnessed a commercial airliner crashing into a building.

I believe there were bombs when someone produces rubble with bomb residue on it. There were enough people on the streets and there are enough lunatic conspiracy theorists where some independent test result should have emerged by now to back up these types of assertions.

firefly wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

firefly wrote:And if your response to that will be "dont read it", Im concerned for the people who will read it and believe theres a shred of truth in anything he says.

Its a forum and people have different points of view. How many people can you ask to ban? Lets say you succeed in getting playa banned. What happens tomorrow when someone else signs up and shares his point of view? You are gonna want them banned too?

Im not going to spend my life refuting every wrong thing he says, but Id rather he find somewhere else to say it so that people who I know, like the other members of this forum dont assume what hes saying is correct and view me in a different light.

I feel somewhat responsible for this thread. Earlier this week I came across a CNN video where they interviewed several people in WTC and I emailed it to playa. He posted it here (clearly not with the intention of being controversial) and got attacked by other people that post here. I cannot just stand by and watch while playa gets banned for something I made him aware of. Especially since a legit video from CNN!

7 WTC did not fall on its own.

Listen, this is a bball forum. The OT stuff is fun and informative but not the real reason we are here. I see the main guys here as friends. If they needed something Id be there, and Id assume vice versa too. If, when I first came to UK, I checked out the OT thread and there were a bunch of posters discussing the merits of gas over ovens, I wouldnt have joined. 99.9% of the poeple who see this forum do not believe in the Elders of Zion, do not believe that Jews run the world and want to kill everyone but themselves, do not believe that the holocaust is a myth, I could go on. If someone comes into our house and starts spreading his beliefs and those beliefs match the above sentance then yeah, you damn right I want them banned too.

Martin and Andrew have a choice to make. They can choose to have a moderate, slightly left-leaning group of users or an extremist, far-right group of users who believe that anyone not white, christians, American and gun-toting is the debil. I believe they have chosen the former and Im proud to be a part of that group. Ive got no problem with Playa posting his conspiracy theories sometimes, bu maybe he should read some of the stuff he posts first and consider how it makes him look.

I'm headed to Brighton the end of June with a coworker. Have any interest?

Silverfuel wrote:

firefly wrote:If someone comes into our house and starts spreading his beliefs and those beliefs match the above sentance then yeah, you damn right I want them banned too.

You are gonna decide what people can and cannot post? Tomorrow you will not disagree with something I say and you will want me banned? The article he posted was not directed towards you personally.

No, thats not it at all. I disagree with plenty of stuff that gets said here. Ive got no problems with other opinions. Like Voltaire said, "I disagree with what you say, but I wil fight to the death to defend your right to say it". Playas post may not have been directed at me, but it was a posting of a venemous article, reprinted in many places including http://truthjihad.blogspot.com. Theres a difference between him posting something I disagree with and him posting - and therefore by definition espousing - something which is I view as anti-semitic. To say that jews will steal nukes from the White House, convince the US to bomb everyone, blew up the WTC and are condicting ethnic cleansing in Israel isnt just something I disagree with. Its something I find gravely offensive. Its the same as someone saying that black people deserve to be poor, are lesser then white people, should be cleaning our dirty laundry and are the reason for all the ills of the world. If someone says that, should they be banned? I think so.

So, no Silver, I dont want to ban someone I disagree with. I want to ban someone who is coming to my forum and posting poison about my race, colour or creed. And its not your fault in the slightest what Playa posted. Ive got no problem with him posting consiracy theories and him posting your CNN clip is fine by me. He steped waaaay over the line, and that has nothing to do with your video at all. It who he is, and I have a right to say I dont want someone like that around. He may not get banned, thats up to the mods not me, but if wishful thinking made it so....

SupremeCommander wrote:I would say everyone's description was, at best, vague. Things like "it sounded like an explosion" or "the subways colliding" were used because people heard of that happening. I highly doubt anyone had previously witnessed a commercial airliner crashing into a building.

I agree. There is definitely some ambiguity but when put together with a lot of other interviews it starts to get clearer. The official description of the event is full of holes too.

SupremeCommander wrote:

firefly wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

firefly wrote:And if your response to that will be "dont read it", Im concerned for the people who will read it and believe theres a shred of truth in anything he says.

Its a forum and people have different points of view. How many people can you ask to ban? Lets say you succeed in getting playa banned. What happens tomorrow when someone else signs up and shares his point of view? You are gonna want them banned too?

Im not going to spend my life refuting every wrong thing he says, but Id rather he find somewhere else to say it so that people who I know, like the other members of this forum dont assume what hes saying is correct and view me in a different light.

I feel somewhat responsible for this thread. Earlier this week I came across a CNN video where they interviewed several people in WTC and I emailed it to playa. He posted it here (clearly not with the intention of being controversial) and got attacked by other people that post here. I cannot just stand by and watch while playa gets banned for something I made him aware of. Especially since a legit video from CNN!

7 WTC did not fall on its own.

Listen, this is a bball forum. The OT stuff is fun and informative but not the real reason we are here. I see the main guys here as friends. If they needed something Id be there, and Id assume vice versa too. If, when I first came to UK, I checked out the OT thread and there were a bunch of posters discussing the merits of gas over ovens, I wouldnt have joined. 99.9% of the poeple who see this forum do not believe in the Elders of Zion, do not believe that Jews run the world and want to kill everyone but themselves, do not believe that the holocaust is a myth, I could go on. If someone comes into our house and starts spreading his beliefs and those beliefs match the above sentance then yeah, you damn right I want them banned too.

Martin and Andrew have a choice to make. They can choose to have a moderate, slightly left-leaning group of users or an extremist, far-right group of users who believe that anyone not white, christians, American and gun-toting is the debil. I believe they have chosen the former and Im proud to be a part of that group. Ive got no problem with Playa posting his conspiracy theories sometimes, bu maybe he should read some of the stuff he posts first and consider how it makes him look.

I'm headed to Brighton the end of June with a coworker. Have any interest?

Dunno where ill be or what Ill be doing, but Brightons not too far. Maybe Ill bring the family down to meet the inordinately tall american Let me know when your around.

Did I miss something because I thought Playa's article was about Mossad being involved in 9/11?

Hart then explained how the five dancing Israelis seen celebrating the attack on the World Trade Center in New Jersey as it unfolded, who turned out to be Mossad agents, proves at at a minimum Israel knew the attack was going to happen. Hart went further in speculating that the planes had been fitted with transponders and that the Israelis were guiding them in to the towers.

“Sounding a chilling note, Hart added that the U.S. is in grave danger of an Israeli-instigated false-flag nuclear attack, perhaps using an American nuclear weapon stolen from Minot Air Force Base during the “loose nukes” rogue operation of August, 2007.

The motive would be to trigger a U.S. war with Iran, and perhaps to finish the ethnic cleansing of Palestine under cover of war–which Hart is convinced the Zionists are planning to do as soon as the opportunity presents itself,”

firefly wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

firefly wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

firefly wrote:And if your response to that will be "dont read it", Im concerned for the people who will read it and believe theres a shred of truth in anything he says.

Its a forum and people have different points of view. How many people can you ask to ban? Lets say you succeed in getting playa banned. What happens tomorrow when someone else signs up and shares his point of view? You are gonna want them banned too?

Im not going to spend my life refuting every wrong thing he says, but Id rather he find somewhere else to say it so that people who I know, like the other members of this forum dont assume what hes saying is correct and view me in a different light.

I feel somewhat responsible for this thread. Earlier this week I came across a CNN video where they interviewed several people in WTC and I emailed it to playa. He posted it here (clearly not with the intention of being controversial) and got attacked by other people that post here. I cannot just stand by and watch while playa gets banned for something I made him aware of. Especially since a legit video from CNN!

7 WTC did not fall on its own.

Listen, this is a bball forum. The OT stuff is fun and informative but not the real reason we are here. I see the main guys here as friends. If they needed something Id be there, and Id assume vice versa too. If, when I first came to UK, I checked out the OT thread and there were a bunch of posters discussing the merits of gas over ovens, I wouldnt have joined. 99.9% of the poeple who see this forum do not believe in the Elders of Zion, do not believe that Jews run the world and want to kill everyone but themselves, do not believe that the holocaust is a myth, I could go on. If someone comes into our house and starts spreading his beliefs and those beliefs match the above sentance then yeah, you damn right I want them banned too.

Martin and Andrew have a choice to make. They can choose to have a moderate, slightly left-leaning group of users or an extremist, far-right group of users who believe that anyone not white, christians, American and gun-toting is the debil. I believe they have chosen the former and Im proud to be a part of that group. Ive got no problem with Playa posting his conspiracy theories sometimes, bu maybe he should read some of the stuff he posts first and consider how it makes him look.

I'm headed to Brighton the end of June with a coworker. Have any interest?

Dunno where ill be or what Ill be doing, but Brightons not too far. Maybe Ill bring the family down to meet the inordinately tall american Let me know when your around.

will do... need to buy the tickets but have already committed to the trip

SupremeCommander wrote:Something did explode--a plane. The building collapsed because that heat compromised the building's structural integrity.

I would say everyone's description was, at best, vague. Things like "it sounded like an explosion" or "the subways colliding" were used because people heard of that happening. I highly doubt anyone had previously witnessed a commercial airliner crashing into a building.

I believe there were bombs when someone produces rubble with bomb residue on it. There were enough people on the streets and there are enough lunatic conspiracy theorists where some independent test result should have emerged by now to back up these types of assertions.

The rubble was swiftly taking away before anyone could do forensic test, why do you think they did that?

By GREG SZYMANSKI -Originally posted july12 2005
05/28/2010 14:38:52

The second WTC janitor has come forward with eye-witness testimony of a 'bomb-like' explosion in New York's World Trade Center North Tower basement on September 11, 2001.

While working in a sub-level 4 workshop of the North Tower on 9/11, Jose Sanchez heard a bomb-like explosion, had his hair burned and rescued a co-worker who had his leg and knee broken from the basement blast taking place at approximately the same time the jetliner struck the tower's top floors.

Jose Sanchez, 45, of New Jersey in a never-released tape recorded statement made in early 2002 to William Rodriguez, the first WTC maintenance man to claim a bomb exploded in the north tower basement, said he heard what sounded like a “huge bomb,” causing lights to flicker on and off, while he worked in a small sub-level 4 workshop.

Sanchez, who worked for American Building Maintenance Co. at the WTC for 14 years, was unavailable for comment, but made the taped 2002 statement to Rodriguez, recounting his 9/11 personal experience.

Sanchez, who fell on hard times after 9/11, revealed the details of a basement bomb-like explosion while Rodriguez and two CNN interns, Carolina Inojosa and Evita Zerebrinsky, interviewed victims and documented information for the many unfortunate people having trouble getting needed government assistance after 9/11.

Besides questioning the credibility of the official story that burning jet fuel was the only factor in bringing down the towers, Rodriguez formed an assistance organization called the Hispanic Victims Group instrumental in helping hundreds of people get help after 9/11 left many victims unemployed and homeless.

“I knew Jose very well since we worked for the same company,” said Rodriguez in a telephone conversation from his New Jersey apartment. “At the time, I taped his statements, I was more concerned about getting people needed assistance and, anyway, back then I really thought the government was seriously investigating the WTC attacks.

“But since then I have learned otherwise. I realize now they are covering-up the real truth and that's why I want to release Jose's statement. What really upsets me and, you can take this message to the White House, is that people like Jose and many others like him who experienced what happened in the basement of the north tower were simply ignored and never interviewed by the 9/11 Commission.

“If they really wanted to get at the truth, these are the very people who should have been interviewed, not public officials who knew very little about what occurred inside the buildings that tragic morning.

“However, instead we all have been ignored in order to cover up the truth. The victims, those who died and the families who lost loved ones deserve nothing less than the truth and I intend to keep talking until the truth is finally told.”

Sanchez's explosive comments, shooting another large hole in the government story, now adds even more credibility to Rodriguez's recent statements that he heard a massive explosion in the WTC basement just seconds prior to the jetliner striking above while working in a sub-level 1 office along side 14 others, all who heard and felt the very same thing as Rodriguez.

Since the outset, the government has stood firm that only burning jet fuel brought down the towers, but has ignored mounting eye-witness testimony and scientific data showing that a controlled demolition was an additional cause.

The government also has not fully explained why it immediately tampered with a crime scene, a criminal offense, by having all the hard evidence from the WTC removed and shipped overseas before independent investigators had a chance to study the structural components of the towers in order to help determine the real cause of the tower's collapse.

While arguments continue in the scientific community about the structural cause of the WTC collapse, Sanchez's eye-witness testimony adds more credibility that explosives were placed and detonated in the lower level of the north tower.

In the 2002 taped statement, Sanchez recalls, at the same time Rodriguez and the others heard the explosion, being in a small sub-level 4 workshop with another man who he only knew by the name of Chino when, out of nowhere, the blast sounded as the two men were cutting a piece of metal.

“It sounded like a bomb and the lights went on and off,” said Sanchez in the tape recording. “We started to walk to the exit and a huge ball of fire went through the freight elevator. The hot air from the ball of fire dropped Chino to the floor and my hair got burned,” said Sanchez in the tape recording. “The room then got full of smoke and I remember saying out loud ‘I believe it was a bomb that blew up inside the building.'

“I said ‘Chino, let's go we gotta get out of here.' But Chino was wounded and told me he needed help. I remember him saying that the hot air came with such force that it broke his leg. We finally went out through another exit and his leg and knee were both broken.”

Sanchez, all the time helping Chino, then recalls exiting into a parking lot on sub-level 4 where he encountered a group of other people also trying to flee. In the parking lot, a person assisted the pair, wrapping Chino's leg with a bandage from a first aid kit.

Chino was then driven in an SUV to safety while Sanchez decided to walk up four flights of stairs through the stairwell, trying to exit at the plaza level but being turned back by debris and falling glass.

“I went back down the stairwell to B-4 and encountered several people coming up. I told them to turn back around and then went across the parking lot up another stairwell, making a left and then finally getting outside,” said Sanchez. “It took about 15 or 20 minutes to get outside and for me it was like a bomb with huge smoke all around. Then when I got outside, the other plane hit the south tower. It looked and felt like a war as I hid behind a wall to get out of the way of falling debris.”

Saying that he felt disoriented and “didn't know what was happening,” Sanchez eventually made his way to safety, arriving at his New Jersey home at about 3:30pm after fleeing down 34th St. and making his way to the ferry boat.

Asked how he felt in the aftermath of the attacks, he said:

“I felt a sense of loss and despair. I worked there 14 years and I worked through the whole complex, installing signs. I worked on all floors and that day I just happened to be in the basement.

“I think I was lucky to get out of the basement because I was near the stairwell.”

Where has it been documented that the rubble was swiftly taken away? Conspiracy sites? What does swiftly mean? Months?

if the janitor says it was a bomb, well then......

Those two towers were unbelievably tall with over 100 floors each! 200 floors of steel, walls, machines and floors left very little rubble to be examined. Was there more rubble?

Also, did 7 WTC (the one with 47 floors) fall on its own?

EDIT: I don't have any theories, I only have questions because I really don't know what happened. All I know is that the official version is inconsistent in too many places.

Silverfuel wrote:Those two towers we unbelievably tall with over 100 floors each! 200 floors of steel, walls, machines and floors left very little rubble to be examined. Was there more rubble?

Also, did 7 WTC (the one with 47 floors) fall on its own?

EDIT: I don't have any theories, I only have questions because I really don't know what happened. All I know is that the official version is inconsistent in too many places.

This is pretty much my stance too. Don't know who and why but def think the official story is bullshit.

playa2 wrote:

Photos showing people walking around in the hole in the North Tower where 10,000 gallons of jet fuel supposedly was burning..How could they?

playa2 wrote:

Another pic before the collapse ^ Notice the structure is still intact even where the wings should have smashed into the building

Here is the hole in the building - it's been reported by at least a dozen different sources (including conspiracy theory sites) to be a 16 to 20 foot hole. That is really interesting when you take into account the fact that the 757 body is 12 ft 4in wide and 13 ft 6in high. (Here is where I was mistaken in the past, like so very many others I was led astray by the HEIGHT of the aircraft, which is actually the measurement from the wheels-down to the tip of the tail. That measurement is for aircraft hangar clearance, not the SIZE of the aircraft.) The 757 is basically a cylinder that is 13 feet across. It then should not be surprising that it would create something around a thirteen foot hole in the side of the building.

Look at the nose-on view of a 757 - you can see the body is slightly less than 1/3 the size of the height of the aircraft. The tail certainly isn't going to punch a hole through a reinforced concrete wall; that is why there is no 40 foot hole in the front of the Pentagon in any photos. A 40 foot object didn't hit it, a 13 foot object did.

http://pakalert.wordpress.com/how-911-wa...

9/11 was a master plot, concocted by a handfull of Israelis and dual passport Americans and carried out by the resources of the Mossad.

playa2 wrote:http://pakalert.wordpress.com/how-911-wa...

9/11 was a master plot, concocted by a handfull of Israelis and dual passport Americans and carried out by the resources of the Mossad.

That is a really great story.

What puzzles me the most though is why you would believe this version of events over any other? I mean yeah, it sounds great, you get to blame the people you want to blame and more power to you, but what happened to any evidence of any kind? Let me guess, the Israelis buried it and the mere fact that there is no evidence is proof of the fact itself. Genius.

Mr Clancy would like a word. Scratch that, this is more like Terry Pratchett territory. Although he might say this is just too fantastic and you have to maintain some kind of audience believability. Still, good luck. I'm sure theres a place for a script like this.

Wow. That link was way too long for one blog post. The big problem I see is that from these extremist sites, there's a lot of conjecture going back and forth. There's no evidence, just suppose this and what about this and we think this, and then acting as if those opinions really prove something. I don't think it makes sense to treat it as fact. Theoretically, anything in possible, but it needs evidence. Playa, if you are claiming that you know and that everyone else who "can't see it" is a moron, why don't you go do something more useful to do with your time than post it on a basketball site? You're entitled to your beliefs, I guess, but frankly some of the "information" (using that term loosely) posted is downright offensive and often baseless. Case in point, I watched the videos you posted and I find myself not jumping to the same conclusions; I'm trying to keep an open mind, but I just have not seen anything definitive. Anyway, if you don't start posting things from reputable sources, rather than solely from extremists, you're quickly going to lose my attention.

Solace wrote:Wow. That link was way too long for one blog post. The big problem I see is that from these extremist sites, there's a lot of conjecture going back and forth. There's no evidence, just suppose this and what about this and we think this, and then acting as if those opinions really prove something. I don't think it makes sense to treat it as fact. Theoretically, anything in possible, but it needs evidence. Playa, if you are claiming that you know and that everyone else who "can't see it" is a moron, why don't you go do something more useful to do with your time than post it on a basketball site? You're entitled to your beliefs, I guess, but frankly some of the "information" (using that term loosely) posted is downright offensive and often baseless. Case in point, I watched the videos you posted and I find myself not jumping to the same conclusions; I'm trying to keep an open mind, but I just have not seen anything definitive. Anyway, if you don't start posting things from reputable sources, rather than solely from extremists, you're quickly going to lose my attention.

What suprises is me is that most of you think this plan was thought about in 6 weeks or something. They knew they had to divert attention with multiple disasters and then they could come up with the names of the so called jackers within a few days LOL.

And the most bizarre issue was they found a hijackers passport on the ground , not even singed with any fire from the WTC blast. Cmon man who believes garbage like that.

The passport of one of the hijackers was found at the WTC. It's clearly impossible for any personal effects to survive the impact and
explosion, therefore it must have been planted.

The first reaction is why would they bother? What does it add to the story? There was no need to “plant passports”. We’ve never seen anyone say “they must have been on the planes because look, the NYPD found that passport”. It’s completely unnecessary, and is only ever used as evidence of an “inside job”.

The FBI has been evasive on whether or not other hijacker's passports were found in the wreckage of the World Trade Center but the
9/11 commission has now presented photographs which they say show the charred paper visa.

A few days after the attack, several newspapers reported that a paper passport had been found in the ruins of the WTC.

This is of course to reinforce the official story of 9/11 which is crumbling under the weight of 9/11 research and activism. At least a third of the WTC victim's bodies were vaporized and many of the victims of the Pentagon incident were burned beyond recognition. And yet visas and paper passports which identify the purpotrators and back up the official version of events miraculously survive explosions and fires that we are told melted steel buildings.

The government's desperation to prove the involvement of the named hijackers contrasts with evidence that several of them are still alive, and even Mohammed Atta's father still insists he talks to his son on a regular basis.