joec32033 wrote:GoNyGoNyGo wrote:franco12 wrote:this is a three year deal which lines up Melo, Stat and Chandler. One year of being in a bad way financially. I can't believe Dolan, who blew so much money on bad deals that had longer term implications, is going to let Lin walk for nothing.True - with hindsight we'll be able to judge this better- but when has a team given up such a potential talent for nothing? I don't think its there - but this is up there with the Red Sox giving up Babe Ruth.
What is really crazy is that everyone blames the tax implications all on Lin for year 3. What about the 3.5 they just added from Felton? That will cost the team an extra $ 9m too! What a joke this all is. The contracts of Camby and Kidd are 3 year deals too! Not to mention the outrageous money that Stat and Melo will be making.
IT's so dumb. Empty your pockets Dolan! Keep the better player!
Felton will not cost the Knicks $43 million dollars in year 3 alone.
So paying a 42 yr old and a 41 yr old, 7 million dollars is ok?
It will be oK, to pay because of a broken down STAT and a ball stopping Melo, $50M?
They will be able to make deals to come under the cap if they need to.
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:joec32033 wrote:GoNyGoNyGo wrote:franco12 wrote:this is a three year deal which lines up Melo, Stat and Chandler. One year of being in a bad way financially. I can't believe Dolan, who blew so much money on bad deals that had longer term implications, is going to let Lin walk for nothing.True - with hindsight we'll be able to judge this better- but when has a team given up such a potential talent for nothing? I don't think its there - but this is up there with the Red Sox giving up Babe Ruth.
What is really crazy is that everyone blames the tax implications all on Lin for year 3. What about the 3.5 they just added from Felton? That will cost the team an extra $ 9m too! What a joke this all is. The contracts of Camby and Kidd are 3 year deals too! Not to mention the outrageous money that Stat and Melo will be making.
IT's so dumb. Empty your pockets Dolan! Keep the better player!
Felton will not cost the Knicks $43 million dollars in year 3 alone.
So paying a 42 yr old and a 41 yr old, 7 million dollars is ok?
It will be oK, to pay because of a broken down STAT and a ball stopping Melo, $50M?
They will be able to make deals to come under the cap if they need to.
I would have tried to trade STAT in a package over the summer for Dwight. The deals for the retirement home guys are not that bad. They are paid about right for their expected production.
Past deals are done there is no changing it, but we can change deals we are about to make. Here is the thing, I don't think matching in this case is a money issue. I think that if this offer was the first offer we received, it would already be done. Dolan, the FO, whoever on the Knicks feel backdoored (understandably) and aren't keen on this.
I think that they took this real personal. By telling Lin to get an offer the Knicks said they are gonna pay more than the max they can offer. This was their way of helping him out (in their opinion). Lin(or his agent) took this for granted and used the Knicks essentially as leverage against themselves. If the events happened as reported, they have every right to be pissed.
I can understand the pissed part but as others have pointed out, in the 2000's a 29-53 team cost nearly 170Million! Money is not the issue in this case and it cannot be basketball either. Lin has more upside than Felton.
I do not buy the hype that Felton is a better defender, we saw him and he is not. Lin gets to the line at a rate that is up there with the top players in the NBA! That is not teachable, it is something he knows how to do.
If the Knicks asked him to get his best deal, and he did, why not match now? They knew that his contract would put them over the luxury tax threshold no matter what. They also expected the poison pill!
SOmething changed and it was personal. THis is not a good basketball decision, IMO.
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:I can understand the pissed part but as others have pointed out, in the 2000's a 29-53 team cost nearly 170Million! Money is not the issue in this case and it cannot be basketball either. Lin has more upside than Felton.I do not buy the hype that Felton is a better defender, we saw him and he is not. Lin gets to the line at a rate that is up there with the top players in the NBA! That is not teachable, it is something he knows how to do.
If the Knicks asked him to get his best deal, and he did, why not match now? They knew that his contract would put them over the luxury tax threshold no matter what. They also expected the poison pill!
SOmething changed and it was personal. THis is not a good basketball decision, IMO.
totally agreed. good post.
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:I can understand the pissed part but as others have pointed out, in the 2000's a 29-53 team cost nearly 170Million! Money is not the issue in this case and it cannot be basketball either. Lin has more upside than Felton.I do not buy the hype that Felton is a better defender, we saw him and he is not. Lin gets to the line at a rate that is up there with the top players in the NBA! That is not teachable, it is something he knows how to do.
If the Knicks asked him to get his best deal, and he did, why not match now? They knew that his contract would put them over the luxury tax threshold no matter what. They also expected the poison pill!
SOmething changed and it was personal. THis is not a good basketball decision, IMO.
when have the knicks really ever made "basketball" deals? this is why we are in a constant state of mess.. walsh was our last hope for respectability.. go figure...
crzymdups wrote:GoNyGoNyGo wrote:I can understand the pissed part but as others have pointed out, in the 2000's a 29-53 team cost nearly 170Million! Money is not the issue in this case and it cannot be basketball either. Lin has more upside than Felton.I do not buy the hype that Felton is a better defender, we saw him and he is not. Lin gets to the line at a rate that is up there with the top players in the NBA! That is not teachable, it is something he knows how to do.
If the Knicks asked him to get his best deal, and he did, why not match now? They knew that his contract would put them over the luxury tax threshold no matter what. They also expected the poison pill!
SOmething changed and it was personal. THis is not a good basketball decision, IMO.
totally agreed. good post.
How can anyone on the Knicks be upset?
We asked Woodson to back stab his agent, which he did. What comes around, goes around.
tkf wrote:GoNyGoNyGo wrote:I can understand the pissed part but as others have pointed out, in the 2000's a 29-53 team cost nearly 170Million! Money is not the issue in this case and it cannot be basketball either. Lin has more upside than Felton.I do not buy the hype that Felton is a better defender, we saw him and he is not. Lin gets to the line at a rate that is up there with the top players in the NBA! That is not teachable, it is something he knows how to do.
If the Knicks asked him to get his best deal, and he did, why not match now? They knew that his contract would put them over the luxury tax threshold no matter what. They also expected the poison pill!
SOmething changed and it was personal. THis is not a good basketball decision, IMO.
when have the knicks really ever made "basketball" deals? this is why we are in a constant state of mess.. walsh was our last hope for respectability.. go figure...
the funny thing is, it's not a good decision in terms of marketability or fan excitement or starphuching which dolan is usually pretty concerned with.
this is dolan being petty as hell.
Best article I've read so far on this debacle:
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/...
The Knicks are making this personal, and letting their emotions shape a decision that should be made at room temperature. There's no good reason to believe that Lin, a better player than Felton last year, won't be a better player than Felton next year and beyond.
This is why I'm done with this team (until Dolan sells) if they don't match on Jeremy. It's a personal decision and this doesn't make sense from a basketball or financial perspective.
Another interesting thing is that the Rockets could have offered Lin 4 years and we knew it. Yet we were saying we would match anything. And now suddenly, there are tax implications that are a concern, even though Lin will more than pay for that due to his marketing value to the Knicks??? We were planning on bringing back Fields and Lin, but Fields offer was a bit too much. Well, just think, if Fields had a reasonable offer we would be paying on that too (luxury tax) but now it's all on Lin??? Something is stinking. On other forums you can see new guys posting and supporting Dolan. Looks like the Dolan machine is trying to control this and it doesn't look like it's working. This is now bigger (message board wise) than when we signed Melo or anything huge for us.
Don't blow this Dolan. Resign Lin.
joec32033 wrote:GoNyGoNyGo wrote:franco12 wrote:this is a three year deal which lines up Melo, Stat and Chandler. One year of being in a bad way financially. I can't believe Dolan, who blew so much money on bad deals that had longer term implications, is going to let Lin walk for nothing.True - with hindsight we'll be able to judge this better- but when has a team given up such a potential talent for nothing? I don't think its there - but this is up there with the Red Sox giving up Babe Ruth.
What is really crazy is that everyone blames the tax implications all on Lin for year 3. What about the 3.5 they just added from Felton? That will cost the team an extra $ 9m too! What a joke this all is. The contracts of Camby and Kidd are 3 year deals too! Not to mention the outrageous money that Stat and Melo will be making.
IT's so dumb. Empty your pockets Dolan! Keep the better player!
Felton will not cost the Knicks $43 million dollars in year 3 alone.
That tax is on the Team, not on Lin. We can trade other players in year 3. Speaking of 3, Lin is our 3rd best player - you don't let that walk.
all the news out there is that we won't match - clearly the front office has talked, unofficially, and is trying to spin the bad news in a positive way.
ChuckBuck wrote:joec32033 wrote:GoNyGoNyGo wrote:franco12 wrote:this is a three year deal which lines up Melo, Stat and Chandler. One year of being in a bad way financially. I can't believe Dolan, who blew so much money on bad deals that had longer term implications, is going to let Lin walk for nothing.True - with hindsight we'll be able to judge this better- but when has a team given up such a potential talent for nothing? I don't think its there - but this is up there with the Red Sox giving up Babe Ruth.
What is really crazy is that everyone blames the tax implications all on Lin for year 3. What about the 3.5 they just added from Felton? That will cost the team an extra $ 9m too! What a joke this all is. The contracts of Camby and Kidd are 3 year deals too! Not to mention the outrageous money that Stat and Melo will be making.
IT's so dumb. Empty your pockets Dolan! Keep the better player!
Felton will not cost the Knicks $43 million dollars in year 3 alone.
Also, Felton will not turn the ball over 8 times a game against the Heat, and will actually stay in front of Jose Calderon. 
In all fairness Lin cut his turnovers down. He seems like he can stay at 3-4, which is more than find for his style. Great pg's often are in that range - take a look.
And in fairness again, Lin was a great defender the first half of those 25 games but the minutes just got to him imo. He can move very well. Not having to rely on him for 45 minutes is going to make him a much better player. The same can be said of our other PGs being able to play harder for shorter stretches.
Correct. Lin is the 3rd best scorer on the team. Now that will fall to Felton.
After Melo is doubled in Woody's ISO offense and STAT is bricking jumpers from 22 feet and Chandler, with his NO post game is just rambling around on offense and JR Smith is hoisting wild 25 footers, and Novak cannot get his shot off, who is going to score for this team?
Felton? Please.
earthmansurfer wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:joec32033 wrote:GoNyGoNyGo wrote:franco12 wrote:this is a three year deal which lines up Melo, Stat and Chandler. One year of being in a bad way financially. I can't believe Dolan, who blew so much money on bad deals that had longer term implications, is going to let Lin walk for nothing.True - with hindsight we'll be able to judge this better- but when has a team given up such a potential talent for nothing? I don't think its there - but this is up there with the Red Sox giving up Babe Ruth.
What is really crazy is that everyone blames the tax implications all on Lin for year 3. What about the 3.5 they just added from Felton? That will cost the team an extra $ 9m too! What a joke this all is. The contracts of Camby and Kidd are 3 year deals too! Not to mention the outrageous money that Stat and Melo will be making.
IT's so dumb. Empty your pockets Dolan! Keep the better player!
Felton will not cost the Knicks $43 million dollars in year 3 alone.
Also, Felton will not turn the ball over 8 times a game against the Heat, and will actually stay in front of Jose Calderon.
In all fairness Lin cut his turnovers down. He seems like he can stay at 3-4, which is more than find for his style. Great pg's often are in that range - take a look.
And in fairness again, Lin was a great defender the first half of those 25 games but the minutes just got to him imo. He can move very well. Not having to rely on him for 45 minutes is going to make him a much better player. The same can be said of our other PGs being able to play harder for shorter stretches.
Good post.
And as for everyone harping on that Miami game - it was the CHAMPIONS - good post by Ian O'Connor - It was like when Pippen and Jordan were intent on embarrassing Kukoc.
Jeremy Lin didn't fake anything in his 15 minutes as a Knick. He tore through the league before he tore up his knee, and in between ran into a Miami Heat team hell-bent on stamping out the raging fires of Linsanity. LeBron James and Dwyane Wade went at Lin the way Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen went at Toni Kukoc in the '92 Olympics, and hard lessons were taught and learned.People who believe Lin to be a fluke, a figment of Mike D'Antoni's imagination, forever default back to that game in Miami before the All-Star break, when an exhausted Lin looked hopelessly lost. But that night was merely a case of a rookie quarterback running up against a fiercely determined defense. Lin is bound to become a better quarterback for that experience, not a weaker one.
earthmansurfer wrote:joec32033 wrote:GoNyGoNyGo wrote:franco12 wrote:this is a three year deal which lines up Melo, Stat and Chandler. One year of being in a bad way financially. I can't believe Dolan, who blew so much money on bad deals that had longer term implications, is going to let Lin walk for nothing.True - with hindsight we'll be able to judge this better- but when has a team given up such a potential talent for nothing? I don't think its there - but this is up there with the Red Sox giving up Babe Ruth.
What is really crazy is that everyone blames the tax implications all on Lin for year 3. What about the 3.5 they just added from Felton? That will cost the team an extra $ 9m too! What a joke this all is. The contracts of Camby and Kidd are 3 year deals too! Not to mention the outrageous money that Stat and Melo will be making.
IT's so dumb. Empty your pockets Dolan! Keep the better player!
Felton will not cost the Knicks $43 million dollars in year 3 alone.
That tax is on the Team, not on Lin. We can trade other players in year 3. Speaking of 3, Lin is our 3rd best player - you don't let that walk.
Jon@knicksfan.net @JonKnicksFanLin isn't costing the Knicks $43 million in tax in 2015. Their total payroll is. These are the kind of math tricks politicians use...
all this spin coming out of the garden is a major sign knicks won't match though.
crzymdups wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:joec32033 wrote:GoNyGoNyGo wrote:franco12 wrote:this is a three year deal which lines up Melo, Stat and Chandler. One year of being in a bad way financially. I can't believe Dolan, who blew so much money on bad deals that had longer term implications, is going to let Lin walk for nothing.True - with hindsight we'll be able to judge this better- but when has a team given up such a potential talent for nothing? I don't think its there - but this is up there with the Red Sox giving up Babe Ruth.
What is really crazy is that everyone blames the tax implications all on Lin for year 3. What about the 3.5 they just added from Felton? That will cost the team an extra $ 9m too! What a joke this all is. The contracts of Camby and Kidd are 3 year deals too! Not to mention the outrageous money that Stat and Melo will be making.
IT's so dumb. Empty your pockets Dolan! Keep the better player!
Felton will not cost the Knicks $43 million dollars in year 3 alone.
Also, Felton will not turn the ball over 8 times a game against the Heat, and will actually stay in front of Jose Calderon.
In all fairness Lin cut his turnovers down. He seems like he can stay at 3-4, which is more than find for his style. Great pg's often are in that range - take a look.
And in fairness again, Lin was a great defender the first half of those 25 games but the minutes just got to him imo. He can move very well. Not having to rely on him for 45 minutes is going to make him a much better player. The same can be said of our other PGs being able to play harder for shorter stretches.
Good post.
And as for everyone harping on that Miami game - it was the CHAMPIONS - good post by Ian O'Connor - It was like when Pippen and Jordan were intent on embarrassing Kukoc.
Jeremy Lin didn't fake anything in his 15 minutes as a Knick. He tore through the league before he tore up his knee, and in between ran into a Miami Heat team hell-bent on stamping out the raging fires of Linsanity. LeBron James and Dwyane Wade went at Lin the way Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen went at Toni Kukoc in the '92 Olympics, and hard lessons were taught and learned.People who believe Lin to be a fluke, a figment of Mike D'Antoni's imagination, forever default back to that game in Miami before the All-Star break, when an exhausted Lin looked hopelessly lost. But that night was merely a case of a rookie quarterback running up against a fiercely determined defense. Lin is bound to become a better quarterback for that experience, not a weaker one.
Oh but lets fault Melo for losing to (akin) Jordan and Pippen in the playoffs with dumb Amare and no show Tyson (oh ... and no PG)
earthmansurfer wrote:joec32033 wrote:GoNyGoNyGo wrote:franco12 wrote:this is a three year deal which lines up Melo, Stat and Chandler. One year of being in a bad way financially. I can't believe Dolan, who blew so much money on bad deals that had longer term implications, is going to let Lin walk for nothing.True - with hindsight we'll be able to judge this better- but when has a team given up such a potential talent for nothing? I don't think its there - but this is up there with the Red Sox giving up Babe Ruth.
What is really crazy is that everyone blames the tax implications all on Lin for year 3. What about the 3.5 they just added from Felton? That will cost the team an extra $ 9m too! What a joke this all is. The contracts of Camby and Kidd are 3 year deals too! Not to mention the outrageous money that Stat and Melo will be making.
IT's so dumb. Empty your pockets Dolan! Keep the better player!
Felton will not cost the Knicks $43 million dollars in year 3 alone.
That tax is on the Team, not on Lin. We can trade other players in year 3. Speaking of 3, Lin is our 3rd best player - you don't let that walk.
Exactly...people keep putting the tax on Lin. Guess what, there are 3 other players (Melo, Tyson, Amare) that also would be contributing to the taxt in 3 years.
Not to mention, I'd easily take Lin over Chandler or Amare in 3 years....
Did the Knicks FO forget that Denver can switch first rounders with us in 2016?
Bonn1997 wrote:GoNyGoNyGo wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Knicks must match Lin and work around the luxury tax by trading Amare by year 3
I'd rather trade Melo!
Trade both. Keep Lin. We'd still be a .500 team and we'd clear 40 to 50 mil/year in cap space.
At this pace, Jeremy Lin will be inducted to the Hall of Fame in a few hours.
