Knicks · Copeland Agrees To Two-Year, $6.1M Contract With Pacers (page 4)
Bargs, is a marginal player at best, giving up a draft pick for that guy was embarrassing. I am really not sure how that trade makes the team better. You basically get what you already had in copeland and lose depth for the regular season when someone goes down. I would imagine Chandler will continue to be heart, Amare is clearly getting injured as will Bargs so what the fuck is this team doing.
This is the third GM in a row that doesn't know how to make trades or give out contracts.
MS wrote:It's fairly reasonable for Copeland. He proved that he can score the ball for inside and out. While no a great defender very few people are. It speaks volumes about our shitty franchise that we felt the need to give out a four year deal to Steve Novak and three year deals to broken down veterans.Bargs, is a marginal player at best, giving up a draft pick for that guy was embarrassing. I am really not sure how that trade makes the team better. You basically get what you already had in copeland and lose depth for the regular season when someone goes down. I would imagine Chandler will continue to be heart, Amare is clearly getting injured as will Bargs so what the fuck is this team doing.
This is the third GM in a row that doesn't know how to make trades or give out contracts.
Yeah, Copeland was a much better player than Novak. For whatever reason, Woodson never liked him. His defense was not that bad.
I, however, think that Bargs is a better offensive player than Copeland (if he is healthy).
TheGame wrote:MS wrote:It's fairly reasonable for Copeland. He proved that he can score the ball for inside and out. While no a great defender very few people are. It speaks volumes about our shitty franchise that we felt the need to give out a four year deal to Steve Novak and three year deals to broken down veterans.Bargs, is a marginal player at best, giving up a draft pick for that guy was embarrassing. I am really not sure how that trade makes the team better. You basically get what you already had in copeland and lose depth for the regular season when someone goes down. I would imagine Chandler will continue to be heart, Amare is clearly getting injured as will Bargs so what the fuck is this team doing.
This is the third GM in a row that doesn't know how to make trades or give out contracts.
Yeah, Copeland was a much better player than Novak. For whatever reason, Woodson never liked him. His defense was not that bad.
I, however, think that Bargs is a better offensive player than Copeland (if he is healthy).
I agree, Cope wasn't a bad defender. Actually at the end of last year I would say he was borderline good.
I also agree, I think Bargs will end up being better than Copeland. We have to consider the change of scenery and the Vince Carter Effect. I still would have signed Cope and offered Pablo less. It was for sure a tough decision as I love Pablo, but I don't take the old guy over the young and up and comer. We did that with Kidd and Camby (and Novak) over Lin (and Felton, or some mix) and how does that look now?
As I stated in the summer league thread, the decisions this organization consistently makes are head scratchers. We are turning into a minor league team for other teams. (Cope, Lin)
TheGame wrote:MS wrote:It's fairly reasonable for Copeland. He proved that he can score the ball for inside and out. While no a great defender very few people are. It speaks volumes about our shitty franchise that we felt the need to give out a four year deal to Steve Novak and three year deals to broken down veterans.Bargs, is a marginal player at best, giving up a draft pick for that guy was embarrassing. I am really not sure how that trade makes the team better. You basically get what you already had in copeland and lose depth for the regular season when someone goes down. I would imagine Chandler will continue to be heart, Amare is clearly getting injured as will Bargs so what the fuck is this team doing.
This is the third GM in a row that doesn't know how to make trades or give out contracts.
Yeah, Copeland was a much better player than Novak. For whatever reason, Woodson never liked him. His defense was not that bad.
I, however, think that Bargs is a better offensive player than Copeland (if he is healthy).
Papabear Says
Woody said in an interview that Copeland probably wouldn't have made the team this year anyway. Woody is a player killer. If his percentage wins are up and could be maybe better if he puts in a certain player he will make that player sit the bench. It miffs me why would a defensive coach will play the long ball for offense. He'd rather be an offensive gambler or call it ISO pot luck offensive. He didn't like like Copeland and maybe he was against Cope coming here in the first place so he busted his balls. Look some coaches can really play politics with players. Look at JR's brother Chris. He has no business on the Knicks but he is here because of his brother and not because of his game.
This will be the bringing down of Woody. I must say though when the ball was put in Copeland's hand you better believe he wasn't passing it back. He was going to shoot it. And if Camby was able to play in the playoffs and Woody just wouldn't let him play then Woody's days are numbered.
earthmansurfer wrote:TheGame wrote:MS wrote:It's fairly reasonable for Copeland. He proved that he can score the ball for inside and out. While no a great defender very few people are. It speaks volumes about our shitty franchise that we felt the need to give out a four year deal to Steve Novak and three year deals to broken down veterans.Bargs, is a marginal player at best, giving up a draft pick for that guy was embarrassing. I am really not sure how that trade makes the team better. You basically get what you already had in copeland and lose depth for the regular season when someone goes down. I would imagine Chandler will continue to be heart, Amare is clearly getting injured as will Bargs so what the fuck is this team doing.
This is the third GM in a row that doesn't know how to make trades or give out contracts.
Yeah, Copeland was a much better player than Novak. For whatever reason, Woodson never liked him. His defense was not that bad.
I, however, think that Bargs is a better offensive player than Copeland (if he is healthy).
I agree, Cope wasn't a bad defender. Actually at the end of last year I would say he was borderline good.
I also agree, I think Bargs will end up being better than Copeland. We have to consider the change of scenery and the Vince Carter Effect. I still would have signed Cope and offered Pablo less. It was for sure a tough decision as I love Pablo, but I don't take the old guy over the young and up and comer. We did that with Kidd and Camby (and Novak) over Lin (and Felton, or some mix) and how does that look now?
As I stated in the summer league thread, the decisions this organization consistently makes are head scratchers. We are turning into a minor league team for other teams. (Cope, Lin)
Vince had his best years in Toronto. I hope you're not saying the same applies to Bargnani
MS wrote:It's fairly reasonable for Copeland. He proved that he can score the ball for inside and out. While no a great defender very few people are. It speaks volumes about our shitty franchise that we felt the need to give out a four year deal to Steve Novak and three year deals to broken down veterans.Bargs, is a marginal player at best, giving up a draft pick for that guy was embarrassing. I am really not sure how that trade makes the team better. You basically get what you already had in copeland and lose depth for the regular season when someone goes down. I would imagine Chandler will continue to be heart, Amare is clearly getting injured as will Bargs so what the fuck is this team doing.
This is the third GM in a row that doesn't know how to make trades or give out contracts.
Can't compare copeland to bargnani. Bargnani has averaged 20 ppg in the league. He's an upgrade and if it works out he's the 2nd scorer that Melo needs and will allow JR smith to play a lesser role on offense.
Knixkik wrote:MS wrote:It's fairly reasonable for Copeland. He proved that he can score the ball for inside and out. While no a great defender very few people are. It speaks volumes about our shitty franchise that we felt the need to give out a four year deal to Steve Novak and three year deals to broken down veterans.Bargs, is a marginal player at best, giving up a draft pick for that guy was embarrassing. I am really not sure how that trade makes the team better. You basically get what you already had in copeland and lose depth for the regular season when someone goes down. I would imagine Chandler will continue to be heart, Amare is clearly getting injured as will Bargs so what the fuck is this team doing.
This is the third GM in a row that doesn't know how to make trades or give out contracts.
Can't compare copeland to bargnani. Bargnani has averaged 20 ppg in the league. He's an upgrade and if it works out he's the 2nd scorer that Melo needs and will allow JR smith to play a lesser role on offense.
He also gave up ten more points than he scored per 100 possessions that year. And his opponent's PER was 4.2 points higher than his (17.1 vs. 21.3). That should give you an idea of how bad his defense is. Nothing from Bargs' past should be used to paint a favorable picture of him.
Bonn1997 wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:TheGame wrote:MS wrote:It's fairly reasonable for Copeland. He proved that he can score the ball for inside and out. While no a great defender very few people are. It speaks volumes about our shitty franchise that we felt the need to give out a four year deal to Steve Novak and three year deals to broken down veterans.Bargs, is a marginal player at best, giving up a draft pick for that guy was embarrassing. I am really not sure how that trade makes the team better. You basically get what you already had in copeland and lose depth for the regular season when someone goes down. I would imagine Chandler will continue to be heart, Amare is clearly getting injured as will Bargs so what the fuck is this team doing.
This is the third GM in a row that doesn't know how to make trades or give out contracts.
Yeah, Copeland was a much better player than Novak. For whatever reason, Woodson never liked him. His defense was not that bad.
I, however, think that Bargs is a better offensive player than Copeland (if he is healthy).
I agree, Cope wasn't a bad defender. Actually at the end of last year I would say he was borderline good.
I also agree, I think Bargs will end up being better than Copeland. We have to consider the change of scenery and the Vince Carter Effect. I still would have signed Cope and offered Pablo less. It was for sure a tough decision as I love Pablo, but I don't take the old guy over the young and up and comer. We did that with Kidd and Camby (and Novak) over Lin (and Felton, or some mix) and how does that look now?
As I stated in the summer league thread, the decisions this organization consistently makes are head scratchers. We are turning into a minor league team for other teams. (Cope, Lin)
Vince had his best years in Toronto. I hope you're not saying the same applies to Bargnani
First, he played his first 7 years in Toronto, pretty long time. His last 4 years in Toronto fell from 25ppg to 16. Then went up to 27.5 after the trade (over 70% improvement), .1 away from his career high. The next 5 years he averaged 20+ points a game, and he is a guy who's game, in large part was athleticism.
How do you leave that out? Again, another this or that fallacy argument. Bargs had to deal with 2 years of booing and injures, I mean that is a terrible environment to play sports in.
The point was, the trade turned Vince around. That is undeniable.
If it doesn't happen to Bargs, then so be it. But Bargs has been a #1 pick guy and never fit that bill. Now he is support and I like that. And I'm not a huge Bargs fan, but do see his talent. Especially inside where Tyson's game is putbacks...
I don'T like the trade of our first, but clearly we are in win now mode.
Bonn1997 wrote:10 more! My thats putrid.Knixkik wrote:MS wrote:It's fairly reasonable for Copeland. He proved that he can score the ball for inside and out. While no a great defender very few people are. It speaks volumes about our shitty franchise that we felt the need to give out a four year deal to Steve Novak and three year deals to broken down veterans.Bargs, is a marginal player at best, giving up a draft pick for that guy was embarrassing. I am really not sure how that trade makes the team better. You basically get what you already had in copeland and lose depth for the regular season when someone goes down. I would imagine Chandler will continue to be heart, Amare is clearly getting injured as will Bargs so what the fuck is this team doing.
This is the third GM in a row that doesn't know how to make trades or give out contracts.
Can't compare copeland to bargnani. Bargnani has averaged 20 ppg in the league. He's an upgrade and if it works out he's the 2nd scorer that Melo needs and will allow JR smith to play a lesser role on offense.
He also gave up ten more points than he scored per 100 possessions that year. And his opponent's PER was 4.2 points higher than his (17.1 vs. 21.3). That should give you an idea of how bad his defense is. Nothing from Bargs' past should be used to paint a favorable picture of him.
CrushAlot wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Copeland said that his Euro coach used to yell at him as much as Woodson did, maybe Woodson didn't want to go through that again. I still believe Cope should have had more PT in the playoffs, but if Woodson wasn't going to play him, its better that he went somewhere else.I agree. Cope was a very likeable guy. Its hard to wish him luck in the east.Grunwald might have felt like the money was better spent on someone Woodson would play. Just wish he hadn't gone to the Pacers, out west instead.
Nice guy yes, but apparently hard to reach. Hope his next coach has the same problem lol. Wouldn't feel that way if Cope went to the western conference.
Papabear wrote:TheGame wrote:MS wrote:It's fairly reasonable for Copeland. He proved that he can score the ball for inside and out. While no a great defender very few people are. It speaks volumes about our shitty franchise that we felt the need to give out a four year deal to Steve Novak and three year deals to broken down veterans.Bargs, is a marginal player at best, giving up a draft pick for that guy was embarrassing. I am really not sure how that trade makes the team better. You basically get what you already had in copeland and lose depth for the regular season when someone goes down. I would imagine Chandler will continue to be heart, Amare is clearly getting injured as will Bargs so what the fuck is this team doing.
This is the third GM in a row that doesn't know how to make trades or give out contracts.
Yeah, Copeland was a much better player than Novak. For whatever reason, Woodson never liked him. His defense was not that bad.
I, however, think that Bargs is a better offensive player than Copeland (if he is healthy).
Papabear SaysWoody said in an interview that Copeland probably wouldn't have made the team this year anyway. Woody is a player killer. If his percentage wins are up and could be maybe better if he puts in a certain player he will make that player sit the bench. It miffs me why would a defensive coach will play the long ball for offense. He'd rather be an offensive gambler or call it ISO pot luck offensive. He didn't like like Copeland and maybe he was against Cope coming here in the first place so he busted his balls. Look some coaches can really play politics with players. Look at JR's brother Chris. He has no business on the Knicks but he is here because of his brother and not because of his game.
This will be the bringing down of Woody. I must say though when the ball was put in Copeland's hand you better believe he wasn't passing it back. He was going to shoot it. And if Camby was able to play in the playoffs and Woody just wouldn't let him play then Woody's days are numbered.
How the hell does someone say a player with Cope's abilities "probably wouldn't have made the team anyway."? Just boggles my mind. And, he is an ISO coach.
REally, what the heck are your trying to build Woody?
I loved how he came on, great defense, opened the offense up and then all that just stopped...
earthmansurfer wrote:Papabear wrote:TheGame wrote:MS wrote:It's fairly reasonable for Copeland. He proved that he can score the ball for inside and out. While no a great defender very few people are. It speaks volumes about our shitty franchise that we felt the need to give out a four year deal to Steve Novak and three year deals to broken down veterans.Bargs, is a marginal player at best, giving up a draft pick for that guy was embarrassing. I am really not sure how that trade makes the team better. You basically get what you already had in copeland and lose depth for the regular season when someone goes down. I would imagine Chandler will continue to be heart, Amare is clearly getting injured as will Bargs so what the fuck is this team doing.
This is the third GM in a row that doesn't know how to make trades or give out contracts.
Yeah, Copeland was a much better player than Novak. For whatever reason, Woodson never liked him. His defense was not that bad.
I, however, think that Bargs is a better offensive player than Copeland (if he is healthy).
Papabear SaysWoody said in an interview that Copeland probably wouldn't have made the team this year anyway. Woody is a player killer. If his percentage wins are up and could be maybe better if he puts in a certain player he will make that player sit the bench. It miffs me why would a defensive coach will play the long ball for offense. He'd rather be an offensive gambler or call it ISO pot luck offensive. He didn't like like Copeland and maybe he was against Cope coming here in the first place so he busted his balls. Look some coaches can really play politics with players. Look at JR's brother Chris. He has no business on the Knicks but he is here because of his brother and not because of his game.
This will be the bringing down of Woody. I must say though when the ball was put in Copeland's hand you better believe he wasn't passing it back. He was going to shoot it. And if Camby was able to play in the playoffs and Woody just wouldn't let him play then Woody's days are numbered.How the hell does someone say a player with Cope's abilities "probably wouldn't have made the team anyway."? Just boggles my mind. And, he is an ISO coach.
REally, what the heck are your trying to build Woody?I loved how he came on, great defense, opened the offense up and then all that just stopped...
If Chris Smith doesn't blow up in SL, signing him will leave a real bad taste in my mouth.
As for Copeland, I get the feeling that something went on behind the scenes that we don't know about. I don't believe it has to do with his lack of D. I'm not going to pretend like I know what it was or pin down the exact cause. It just feels like the story is incomplete because Copeland was giving us instant offense off the bench. He was knocking heads with his coach in Europe as well. Curious to know what got them so PO'd. Strange situation.
earthmansurfer wrote:I think there is some confusion on what Woodson said and when he said it. My understanding is this quote was from Woodson during the playoffs talking about Cope making the team from the past season.Papabear wrote:TheGame wrote:MS wrote:It's fairly reasonable for Copeland. He proved that he can score the ball for inside and out. While no a great defender very few people are. It speaks volumes about our shitty franchise that we felt the need to give out a four year deal to Steve Novak and three year deals to broken down veterans.Bargs, is a marginal player at best, giving up a draft pick for that guy was embarrassing. I am really not sure how that trade makes the team better. You basically get what you already had in copeland and lose depth for the regular season when someone goes down. I would imagine Chandler will continue to be heart, Amare is clearly getting injured as will Bargs so what the fuck is this team doing.
This is the third GM in a row that doesn't know how to make trades or give out contracts.
Yeah, Copeland was a much better player than Novak. For whatever reason, Woodson never liked him. His defense was not that bad.
I, however, think that Bargs is a better offensive player than Copeland (if he is healthy).
Papabear SaysWoody said in an interview that Copeland probably wouldn't have made the team this year anyway. Woody is a player killer. If his percentage wins are up and could be maybe better if he puts in a certain player he will make that player sit the bench. It miffs me why would a defensive coach will play the long ball for offense. He'd rather be an offensive gambler or call it ISO pot luck offensive. He didn't like like Copeland and maybe he was against Cope coming here in the first place so he busted his balls. Look some coaches can really play politics with players. Look at JR's brother Chris. He has no business on the Knicks but he is here because of his brother and not because of his game.
This will be the bringing down of Woody. I must say though when the ball was put in Copeland's hand you better believe he wasn't passing it back. He was going to shoot it. And if Camby was able to play in the playoffs and Woody just wouldn't let him play then Woody's days are numbered.How the hell does someone say a player with Cope's abilities "probably wouldn't have made the team anyway."? Just boggles my mind. And, he is an ISO coach.
REally, what the heck are your trying to build Woody?I loved how he came on, great defense, opened the offense up and then all that just stopped...
Mike Woodson said he didn’t think Chris Copeland would make the Knicks this season and now he’s going to be one of the first players off the bench in their biggest game of the season Saturday night.
It sounds a little like the Jeremy Lin story all over again.Copeland, a well-traveled 29-year-old rookie, helped the Knicks beat the Pacers in Game and extend the Eastern Conference semifinals to a sixth game with 13 points Thursday night.
“Here was a young man that we didn’t think had a chance to make our ballclub,” Woodson said. “We didn’t think he was physically equipped to play at this level and just knowing the game at this level. It took him a while. He sat and learned patiently. We played him here and there. But each time he’s played he’s been productive on the floor.
"He's had his ups and downs in some games but first time go around guy, he's kind of like Pablo, they just kind of figure things out. It's kind of nice because my staff and I, we've all had a hand in it, and his teammates as well, in getting him to this stage.”
http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball...
There is something going on behind the scenes.
I would love to hear a question to Melo did he think Copeland should have played more in game 6 .