CrushAlot wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:playa2 wrote:Jmpasq wrote:VDesai wrote:Personally I would've offered Cope the full mini MLE and taken my chances at signing Prigs with the veteran min contact or let him walk for another option. I like Prig but Prig is too limited offensively to be the primary backup PG and as a consequence we are still looking for another guy at the PG position.
Yep Copeland was a better player. We still need another PG anyway. Cope was trade able down the line as well
Copeland would have become the fan favorite, because he would have the ball in his hands, but that would take it out of Melo's hands.
I think it is Lin part II. They don't want any competition for Melo, not fan favorites (e.g. Lin) or scoring from the same position (Cope).
What is "funny" is we are still looking for a point guard and still looking for a true backup to Melo...
I think I am reading things that are pretty ridiculous.
Would be funny if it wasn't true.
CashMoney wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:playa2 wrote:Jmpasq wrote:VDesai wrote:Personally I would've offered Cope the full mini MLE and taken my chances at signing Prigs with the veteran min contact or let him walk for another option. I like Prig but Prig is too limited offensively to be the primary backup PG and as a consequence we are still looking for another guy at the PG position.
Yep Copeland was a better player. We still need another PG anyway. Cope was trade able down the line as well
Copeland would have become the fan favorite, because he would have the ball in his hands, but that would take it out of Melo's hands.
I think it is Lin part II. They don't want any competition for Melo, not fan favorites (e.g. Lin) or scoring from the same position (Cope).
What is "funny" is we are still looking for a point guard and still looking for a true backup to Melo...
You guys crack me up. There are people on this board who hated the Melo trade since Gallo was included yet we basically have a 7 foot version of Gallo and it's a problem. Letting Lin go to Houston was a bad move but giving Lin $8 mil a year for what is basically Ray Felton production and who happens to make half of what Lin does was a bad move.
Now not offering Cope a contract even though everyone on the face of the earth knew he was worth more on the open market and was basically a goner anyway is a bad move because his per 36 minutes is better than Bargs?
Better then Bargs best season it blows away Bargs last season. Copeland was very productive with his minutes. Bargs is expected to score what 15 in 30 with no defense ,Cope could score 15 in 30 with no defense.Why did we give up 3 draft picks and 4 times the salary per for the same thing
There were a lot of games where cope didn't show up at all. You can project stats with end of the bench players with tunnel vision who are prone to turnovers. If that's the CSS earl Barron would avg 30pts per game
I love cope but be is a 30yr old role player Bargs is a 28yr old starter. Can post up and shoot over guys without disrupting the offensive flow
Watch how Cope flourishes in Indiana with ball movement. SMH
Jmpasq wrote:CashMoney wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:playa2 wrote:Jmpasq wrote:VDesai wrote:Personally I would've offered Cope the full mini MLE and taken my chances at signing Prigs with the veteran min contact or let him walk for another option. I like Prig but Prig is too limited offensively to be the primary backup PG and as a consequence we are still looking for another guy at the PG position.
Yep Copeland was a better player. We still need another PG anyway. Cope was trade able down the line as well
Copeland would have become the fan favorite, because he would have the ball in his hands, but that would take it out of Melo's hands.
I think it is Lin part II. They don't want any competition for Melo, not fan favorites (e.g. Lin) or scoring from the same position (Cope).
What is "funny" is we are still looking for a point guard and still looking for a true backup to Melo...
You guys crack me up. There are people on this board who hated the Melo trade since Gallo was included yet we basically have a 7 foot version of Gallo and it's a problem. Letting Lin go to Houston was a bad move but giving Lin $8 mil a year for what is basically Ray Felton production and who happens to make half of what Lin does was a bad move.
Now not offering Cope a contract even though everyone on the face of the earth knew he was worth more on the open market and was basically a goner anyway is a bad move because his per 36 minutes is better than Bargs?
Better then Bargs best season it blows away Bargs last season. Copeland was very productive with his minutes. Bargs is expected to score what 15 in 30 with no defense ,Cope could score 15 in 30 with no defense.Why did we give up 3 draft picks and 4 times the salary per for the same thing
Bargnani can score in the post and from the outside, Copeland cannot. Bargnani can guard bigs better than Copeland. i think people are forgetting Bargnani is a PF/C, not a SF. also, he plays in the post - this isn't a guy who floats around the perimeter. he takes some 3's and can hit the 3, but this guy sets up in the post, draws double teams in the post, etc. copeland does NOT do that.
also, signing Copeland = losing Prigioni.
i'd rather have Pablo and Bargnani than Copeland.
BigSm00th wrote:Jmpasq wrote:CashMoney wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:playa2 wrote:Jmpasq wrote:VDesai wrote:Personally I would've offered Cope the full mini MLE and taken my chances at signing Prigs with the veteran min contact or let him walk for another option. I like Prig but Prig is too limited offensively to be the primary backup PG and as a consequence we are still looking for another guy at the PG position.
Yep Copeland was a better player. We still need another PG anyway. Cope was trade able down the line as well
Copeland would have become the fan favorite, because he would have the ball in his hands, but that would take it out of Melo's hands.
I think it is Lin part II. They don't want any competition for Melo, not fan favorites (e.g. Lin) or scoring from the same position (Cope).
What is "funny" is we are still looking for a point guard and still looking for a true backup to Melo...
You guys crack me up. There are people on this board who hated the Melo trade since Gallo was included yet we basically have a 7 foot version of Gallo and it's a problem. Letting Lin go to Houston was a bad move but giving Lin $8 mil a year for what is basically Ray Felton production and who happens to make half of what Lin does was a bad move.
Now not offering Cope a contract even though everyone on the face of the earth knew he was worth more on the open market and was basically a goner anyway is a bad move because his per 36 minutes is better than Bargs?
Better then Bargs best season it blows away Bargs last season. Copeland was very productive with his minutes. Bargs is expected to score what 15 in 30 with no defense ,Cope could score 15 in 30 with no defense.Why did we give up 3 draft picks and 4 times the salary per for the same thing
Bargnani can score in the post and from the outside, Copeland cannot. Bargnani can guard bigs better than Copeland. i think people are forgetting Bargnani is a PF/C, not a SF. also, he plays in the post - this isn't a guy who floats around the perimeter. he takes some 3's and can hit the 3, but this guy sets up in the post, draws double teams in the post, etc. copeland does NOT do that.
also, signing Copeland = losing Prigioni.
i'd rather have Pablo and Bargnani than Copeland.
Not necessarily true. Cope said he would have taken a pay cut to sign with the Knicks. The problem is the Knicks never gave him an offer. Hearing what Woody had to say about Cope before the summer league practice I now know why he was never given an offer.
Clean wrote:BigSm00th wrote:Jmpasq wrote:CashMoney wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:playa2 wrote:Jmpasq wrote:VDesai wrote:Personally I would've offered Cope the full mini MLE and taken my chances at signing Prigs with the veteran min contact or let him walk for another option. I like Prig but Prig is too limited offensively to be the primary backup PG and as a consequence we are still looking for another guy at the PG position.
Yep Copeland was a better player. We still need another PG anyway. Cope was trade able down the line as well
Copeland would have become the fan favorite, because he would have the ball in his hands, but that would take it out of Melo's hands.
I think it is Lin part II. They don't want any competition for Melo, not fan favorites (e.g. Lin) or scoring from the same position (Cope).
What is "funny" is we are still looking for a point guard and still looking for a true backup to Melo...
You guys crack me up. There are people on this board who hated the Melo trade since Gallo was included yet we basically have a 7 foot version of Gallo and it's a problem. Letting Lin go to Houston was a bad move but giving Lin $8 mil a year for what is basically Ray Felton production and who happens to make half of what Lin does was a bad move.
Now not offering Cope a contract even though everyone on the face of the earth knew he was worth more on the open market and was basically a goner anyway is a bad move because his per 36 minutes is better than Bargs?
Better then Bargs best season it blows away Bargs last season. Copeland was very productive with his minutes. Bargs is expected to score what 15 in 30 with no defense ,Cope could score 15 in 30 with no defense.Why did we give up 3 draft picks and 4 times the salary per for the same thing
Bargnani can score in the post and from the outside, Copeland cannot. Bargnani can guard bigs better than Copeland. i think people are forgetting Bargnani is a PF/C, not a SF. also, he plays in the post - this isn't a guy who floats around the perimeter. he takes some 3's and can hit the 3, but this guy sets up in the post, draws double teams in the post, etc. copeland does NOT do that.
also, signing Copeland = losing Prigioni.
i'd rather have Pablo and Bargnani than Copeland.
Not necessarily true. Cope said he would have taken a pay cut to sign with the Knicks. The problem is the Knicks never gave him an offer. Hearing what Woody had to say about Cope before the summer league practice I now know why he was never given an offer.
Didn't here what Woodson said but this was from Grunwald:
Speaking of Copeland, Grunwald said retaining the free-agent forward was a "priority", but the Knicks could not match the two-year $6 million offer the Pacers made to Copeland. New York was unable to match the deal because it used part of its tax payers' exception to re-sign Pablo Prigioni to a three-year deal starting at $1.5 million.
"We liked Chris, we would have liked to bring him back, but the new CBA restricts teams that are in the taxes to what they can do," Grunwald said. "So we had to make a decision. It was a tough one. But we decided to go in another direction than re-signing Chris. Credit to Chris for going out and earning that. I wish him great success going forward."
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/...
Clean wrote:BigSm00th wrote:Jmpasq wrote:CashMoney wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:playa2 wrote:Jmpasq wrote:VDesai wrote:Personally I would've offered Cope the full mini MLE and taken my chances at signing Prigs with the veteran min contact or let him walk for another option. I like Prig but Prig is too limited offensively to be the primary backup PG and as a consequence we are still looking for another guy at the PG position.
Yep Copeland was a better player. We still need another PG anyway. Cope was trade able down the line as well
Copeland would have become the fan favorite, because he would have the ball in his hands, but that would take it out of Melo's hands.
I think it is Lin part II. They don't want any competition for Melo, not fan favorites (e.g. Lin) or scoring from the same position (Cope).
What is "funny" is we are still looking for a point guard and still looking for a true backup to Melo...
You guys crack me up. There are people on this board who hated the Melo trade since Gallo was included yet we basically have a 7 foot version of Gallo and it's a problem. Letting Lin go to Houston was a bad move but giving Lin $8 mil a year for what is basically Ray Felton production and who happens to make half of what Lin does was a bad move.
Now not offering Cope a contract even though everyone on the face of the earth knew he was worth more on the open market and was basically a goner anyway is a bad move because his per 36 minutes is better than Bargs?
Better then Bargs best season it blows away Bargs last season. Copeland was very productive with his minutes. Bargs is expected to score what 15 in 30 with no defense ,Cope could score 15 in 30 with no defense.Why did we give up 3 draft picks and 4 times the salary per for the same thing
Bargnani can score in the post and from the outside, Copeland cannot. Bargnani can guard bigs better than Copeland. i think people are forgetting Bargnani is a PF/C, not a SF. also, he plays in the post - this isn't a guy who floats around the perimeter. he takes some 3's and can hit the 3, but this guy sets up in the post, draws double teams in the post, etc. copeland does NOT do that.
also, signing Copeland = losing Prigioni.
i'd rather have Pablo and Bargnani than Copeland.
Not necessarily true. Cope said he would have taken a pay cut to sign with the Knicks. The problem is the Knicks never gave him an offer. Hearing what Woody had to say about Cope before the summer league practice I now know why he was never given an offer.
true. these guys say one thing to media and the reality is another. look what happened to Lin last year. Cope took 2x as much as the Knicks could've paid him. good for him, he got paid. but he's a bench scorer who the coach didn't trust on D.
I think Indiana is a bad situation for Copeland (how many minutes does he get with Stevenson, Granger, George in those swing positions ahead of him), but I think he got a nice deal and I would've rather used that MLE on him than dip into it for Pablo. Ultimately Pablo is too limited a player to have dipped into that MLE for from my perspective. That said Copeland and Novak are are supposed to be replaced by a healthy Amare and Bargnani and that combo SHOULD by all rights be better, so maybe it won't be a big deal. I just was a fan of Copelands game and I think in the right situation he's a real NBA scorer- 16-18 ppg.
Copeland said that his Euro coach used to yell at him as much as Woodson did, maybe Woodson didn't want to go through that again. I still believe Cope should have had more PT in the playoffs, but if Woodson wasn't going to play him, its better that he went somewhere else.
Grunwald might have felt like the money was better spent on someone Woodson would play. Just wish he hadn't gone to the Pacers, out west instead.
GustavBahler wrote:Copeland said that his Euro coach used to yell at him as much as Woodson did, maybe Woodson didn't want to go through that again. I still believe Cope should have had more PT in the playoffs, but if Woodson wasn't going to play him, its better that he went somewhere else. Grunwald might have felt like the money was better spent on someone Woodson would play. Just wish he hadn't gone to the Pacers, out west instead.
I agree. Cope was a very likeable guy. Its hard to wish him luck in the east.
BigSm00th wrote:Jmpasq wrote:CashMoney wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:playa2 wrote:Jmpasq wrote:VDesai wrote:Personally I would've offered Cope the full mini MLE and taken my chances at signing Prigs with the veteran min contact or let him walk for another option. I like Prig but Prig is too limited offensively to be the primary backup PG and as a consequence we are still looking for another guy at the PG position.
Yep Copeland was a better player. We still need another PG anyway. Cope was trade able down the line as well
Copeland would have become the fan favorite, because he would have the ball in his hands, but that would take it out of Melo's hands.
I think it is Lin part II. They don't want any competition for Melo, not fan favorites (e.g. Lin) or scoring from the same position (Cope).
What is "funny" is we are still looking for a point guard and still looking for a true backup to Melo...
You guys crack me up. There are people on this board who hated the Melo trade since Gallo was included yet we basically have a 7 foot version of Gallo and it's a problem. Letting Lin go to Houston was a bad move but giving Lin $8 mil a year for what is basically Ray Felton production and who happens to make half of what Lin does was a bad move.
Now not offering Cope a contract even though everyone on the face of the earth knew he was worth more on the open market and was basically a goner anyway is a bad move because his per 36 minutes is better than Bargs?
Better then Bargs best season it blows away Bargs last season. Copeland was very productive with his minutes. Bargs is expected to score what 15 in 30 with no defense ,Cope could score 15 in 30 with no defense.Why did we give up 3 draft picks and 4 times the salary per for the same thing
Bargnani can score in the post and from the outside, Copeland cannot. Bargnani can guard bigs better than Copeland. i think people are forgetting Bargnani is a PF/C, not a SF. also, he plays in the post - this isn't a guy who floats around the perimeter. he takes some 3's and can hit the 3, but this guy sets up in the post, draws double teams in the post, etc. copeland does NOT do that.
also, signing Copeland = losing Prigioni.
i'd rather have Pablo and Bargnani than Copeland.
Well, if it was only Pablo and Bargs vs. Cope, maybe it is closer but it was actually:
Pablo, Bargs Vs. Cope, Novak, Camby, 1st round pick, 2X 2nd round picks. (And I'm not so sure we couldn't have just signed Pablo to a minimum contract or another pg)
Now, maybe the money we saved can be argued, I'm not against that part but the problem is Cope was playing around at Bargs level.
I do have a lot more in the way of expectations for Bargs than Cope though.
smackeddog wrote:Thought he'd get more than 2 years- makes that Novak deal we gave last season look even worse!A shame, he seemed like a good player and a nice person, but I think he looks younger than he is and people maybe overestimate his upside as a result. He could just as easily be this years Shawne Williams.
Speaking of which, I hope we sign Shawne Williams as his replacement...
Guys are overrating him just like the overrated everyone we lose. Telling him to sign now and we'll pay you later as someone suggested won't work because the NBA is a business and Cope would in all likelihood be used as a trade pawn by the end of the year or next
playa2 wrote:Watch how Cope flourishes in Indiana with ball movement. SMH
I agree, he is very skilled and improved on his weakness with the assistance of Wallace/Camby and development coaches much during the end of the season in all aspects of his game
Woodson did no appreciate what he brought to the team and while it was obvious that we needed to play him to have a shot to beat Indiana, he missed it
Barg's is taller than him but Copeland proved he could play in a high level in NYK which is not easy to do with limited minutes/opportunities
Copeland was used as a SF/PF in the early part of the season but he lacks speed/quickness/athleticism and flourished while playing PF/C and was able to create for the team from his mismatch that he created as a stretch 4/5 with a mobile PF/C in Martin
As useful as Copeland could help Indiana, as a 40% 3pt sniper, I think he was signed more because he is such a cost efficient/cheap option/ and a efficient player that can counter the size/strength of Indiana's BIGS
He could be a difference maker in a contending team and he showed the ability to improve and work on his weakness's
I don't believe we have seen the best of Copeland yet and if he can improve his speed/quickness he would be even more deadly
RonRon wrote:playa2 wrote:Watch how Cope flourishes in Indiana with ball movement. SMH
I agree, he is very skilled and improved on his weakness with the assistance of Wallace/Camby and development coaches much during the end of the season in all aspects of his game
Woodson did no appreciate what he brought to the team and while it was obvious that we needed to play him to have a shot to beat Indiana, he missed it
Barg's is taller than him but Copeland proved he could play in a high level in NYK which is not easy to do with limited minutes/opportunities
Copeland was used as a SF/PF in the early part of the season but he lacks speed/quickness/athleticism and flourished while playing PF/C and was able to create for the team from his mismatch that he created as a stretch 4/5 with a mobile PF/C in Martin
As useful as Copeland could help Indiana, as a 40% 3pt sniper, I think he was signed more because he is such a cost efficient/cheap option/ and a efficient player that can counter the size/strength of Indiana's BIGS
He could be a difference maker in a contending team and he showed the ability to improve and work on his weakness's
I don't believe we have seen the best of Copeland yet and if he can improve his speed/quickness he would be even more deadly
Ron Ron, I find that amazing that we see this as fans , but the coach and GM WHO GETS PAID 6 FIGURES to figure out who can help us can't.
playa2 wrote:RonRon wrote:playa2 wrote:Watch how Cope flourishes in Indiana with ball movement. SMH
I agree, he is very skilled and improved on his weakness with the assistance of Wallace/Camby and development coaches much during the end of the season in all aspects of his game
Woodson did no appreciate what he brought to the team and while it was obvious that we needed to play him to have a shot to beat Indiana, he missed it
Barg's is taller than him but Copeland proved he could play in a high level in NYK which is not easy to do with limited minutes/opportunities
Copeland was used as a SF/PF in the early part of the season but he lacks speed/quickness/athleticism and flourished while playing PF/C and was able to create for the team from his mismatch that he created as a stretch 4/5 with a mobile PF/C in Martin
As useful as Copeland could help Indiana, as a 40% 3pt sniper, I think he was signed more because he is such a cost efficient/cheap option/ and a efficient player that can counter the size/strength of Indiana's BIGS
He could be a difference maker in a contending team and he showed the ability to improve and work on his weakness's
I don't believe we have seen the best of Copeland yet and if he can improve his speed/quickness he would be even more deadly
Ron Ron, I find that amazing that we see this as fans , but the coach and GM WHO GETS PAID 6 FIGURES to figure out who can help us can't.
I said it prior to the end of the season that Copeland must be utilized eventually to advance in the play offs but feared Woodson would make him rot on the bench even though he played very well in the late stretch at C for us to win 54 games to fill in for Chandler/Martin and gave us a different dynamic with his ability to spread the floor/facilitate/handle the ball/post up/and PLAY OFF THE BALL or/and PLAYING as a TOP 3 option on offense
It is sad, I also have said Melo should play the PF in Dantoni's offense with shooters to spread him out, so he has the ability to facilitate
I also said Lin should have played months before Linsanity because of his ability to penetrate and handle the ball
but here in UK, there are plenty of posters that think they know what they are talking about and find joy in bashing other's here
Reading Woody's comments, it does seem like he didn't like Cope. I know from the practice video, he was a bit lazy in practice and his defense was poor, but it seems like it was something more than that. Strange. Oh well, hopefully he doesn't burn us next time we play the Pacers...
smackeddog wrote:Reading Woody's comments, it does seem like he didn't like Cope. I know from the practice video, he was a bit lazy in practice and his defense was poor, but it seems like it was something more than that. Strange. Oh well, hopefully he doesn't burn us next time we play the Pacers...
You know it's going to happen! 
Lin stunk up the year, then shows up against the Knicks. Cope will be the same. Probably sporadic production throughout the season, but against the Knicks, he'll blow up for 30.
ChuckBuck wrote:smackeddog wrote:Reading Woody's comments, it does seem like he didn't like Cope. I know from the practice video, he was a bit lazy in practice and his defense was poor, but it seems like it was something more than that. Strange. Oh well, hopefully he doesn't burn us next time we play the Pacers...
You know it's going to happen!
Lin stunk up the year, then shows up against the Knicks. Cope will be the same. Probably sporadic production throughout the season, but against the Knicks, he'll blow up for 30.
Seems like we have an enemy on every team!
No matter what it is this comes down to mismanagement by the Knicks. A guy that got a non guaranteed deal wouldnt of taken a 2 year team option give me a break. We could of traded him this offseason with absolutely no issue even if it was to a team that wanted to shed a player. These little things here and there add up.
It's fairly reasonable for Copeland. He proved that he can score the ball for inside and out. While no a great defender very few people are. It speaks volumes about our shitty franchise that we felt the need to give out a four year deal to Steve Novak and three year deals to broken down veterans.
Bargs, is a marginal player at best, giving up a draft pick for that guy was embarrassing. I am really not sure how that trade makes the team better. You basically get what you already had in copeland and lose depth for the regular season when someone goes down. I would imagine Chandler will continue to be heart, Amare is clearly getting injured as will Bargs so what the fuck is this team doing.
This is the third GM in a row that doesn't know how to make trades or give out contracts.
