Jmpasq wrote:Why the Knicks are a complete fail as a franchise is moves like this. The Knicks get enamored with names rather then actual production on the court. What they dont even know and its sad is that if Chris Copeland got Bargs minutes he would put up the exact same if not better numbers then Bargs. Dont believe me check out the per 36's of both players. These r the types of moves that kill this franchise giving up 3 picks and paying 11 million for a player that does the same exact thing but was buried on the bench.Bargnani Best Season 36 21.6 ppg, 5.2rpg, 1.8 ast, .448 fg%, .345 3pt fg
Copeland 36 20.3 ppg , 5.0 rpg,1.1 ast , .470fg% , .421 3pt%
I don't think you can do the per 36mins projection thing with bench players but it does make you wonder if Bargnani is even better than copeland at that price. It's a shame Woodson didn't give copeland a chance last year when we desperately needed another scorer. At leas we would know if we had a keeper or not. Copeland will benefit greatly from playing for a high IQ young coaching mind like Vogel. Happy for him. Much better situation for him than being stuck in Woodsons doghouse and hazed by his teammates
gunsnewing wrote:Jmpasq wrote:Why the Knicks are a complete fail as a franchise is moves like this. The Knicks get enamored with names rather then actual production on the court. What they dont even know and its sad is that if Chris Copeland got Bargs minutes he would put up the exact same if not better numbers then Bargs. Dont believe me check out the per 36's of both players. These r the types of moves that kill this franchise giving up 3 picks and paying 11 million for a player that does the same exact thing but was buried on the bench.Bargnani Best Season 36 21.6 ppg, 5.2rpg, 1.8 ast, .448 fg%, .345 3pt fg
Copeland 36 20.3 ppg , 5.0 rpg,1.1 ast , .470fg% , .421 3pt%
I don't think you can do the per 36mins projection thing with bench players but it does make you wonder if Bargnani is even better than copeland at that price. It's a shame Woodson didn't give copeland a chance last year when we desperately needed another scorer. At leas we would know if we had a keeper or not. Copeland will benefit greatly from playing for a high IQ young coaching mind like Vogel. Happy for him. Much better situation for him than being stuck in Woodsons doghouse and hazed by his teammates
Even just minute for minute last year Copeland played half the minutes and scored almost 9 points.Bargs in 29 scored 13. If we were looking for stretch 4 offense we had it, he just wasnt on the court. If Defense is what limited Copes minutes wont the same happen to Bargs or is it because he makes 11 million he automatically plays 30 minutes and a guy on the rookie deal sits. It looks like to me we traded 3 draft picks and spent 4 times the salary on a player that could of provided the same exact thing if he played. I find it damning the Pacers got him.
smackeddog wrote:Thought he'd get more than 2 years- makes that Novak deal we gave last season look even worse!A shame, he seemed like a good player and a nice person, but I think he looks younger than he is and people maybe overestimate his upside as a result. He could just as easily be this years Shawne Williams.
Speaking of which, I hope we sign Shawne Williams as his replacement...
Because the Knicks FO has no idea what negotiations are. Whoever it is a rival GM or agent whatever they say the Knicks just take. Shawne Williams will get 3 years with a buyout for no reason at the end of the deal
Disappointing for sure...
Smh!!!! Just gets better and better!
Can someone explain to me why Grunnie and Woody decide they'd rather have no SF than Cope? Thought when they failed to re-sign him it was because try had something lined up. But now brand isn't going to sign with us and we've moved on to looking at Bell and petrius, it's pretty clear we have NOTHING lined up! What were they thinking?!
smackeddog wrote:Can someone explain to me why Grunnie and Woody decide they'd rather have no SF than Cope? Thought when they failed to re-sign him it was because try had something lined up. But now brand isn't going to sign with us and we've moved on to looking at Bell and petrius, it's pretty clear we have NOTHING lined up! What were they thinking?!
The Knicks had the mini-MLE (about $3+m) to sign both Prigs and Cope. Prigs got something like $1.7M and all that was left was another $1.7M, and it was outmatched by Indiana. Them the limitations within the new CBA. PG def a priority over SF.
martin wrote:smackeddog wrote:Can someone explain to me why Grunnie and Woody decide they'd rather have no SF than Cope? Thought when they failed to re-sign him it was because try had something lined up. But now brand isn't going to sign with us and we've moved on to looking at Bell and petrius, it's pretty clear we have NOTHING lined up! What were they thinking?!
The Knicks had the mini-MLE (about $3+m) to sign both Prigs and Cope. Prigs got something like $1.7M and all that was left was another $1.7M, and it was outmatched by Indiana. Them the limitations within the new CBA. PG def a priority over SF.
Cope made it sound like he was willing to take less to stay, but we didn't make him an offer. He or his agent could be lying, at least that's what I hope! But they gave the impression he might of stayed for that $1.7mil, but we didn't seem to want him.
Personally I would've offered Cope the full mini MLE and taken my chances at signing Prigs with the veteran min contact or let him walk for another option. I like Prig but Prig is too limited offensively to be the primary backup PG and as a consequence we are still looking for another guy at the PG position.
smackeddog wrote:martin wrote:smackeddog wrote:Can someone explain to me why Grunnie and Woody decide they'd rather have no SF than Cope? Thought when they failed to re-sign him it was because try had something lined up. But now brand isn't going to sign with us and we've moved on to looking at Bell and petrius, it's pretty clear we have NOTHING lined up! What were they thinking?!
The Knicks had the mini-MLE (about $3+m) to sign both Prigs and Cope. Prigs got something like $1.7M and all that was left was another $1.7M, and it was outmatched by Indiana. Them the limitations within the new CBA. PG def a priority over SF.
Cope made it sound like he was willing to take less to stay, but we didn't make him an offer. He or his agent could be lying, at least that's what I hope! But they gave the impression he might of stayed for that $1.7mil, but we didn't seem to want him.
Cope may never get another contract in his life and he has been toiling in Europe for about 6-7 years making next to nothing. Would you take $3 or $6M? And then what would you instruct your agent to say to smooth things over?
Too much time in the Woody doghouse. There was griping about Cope's PT all season.
Let's see how Frankie the Kid handles him.
I'm guessing he's going to end up being Indy's Steve Novak.
Good for both of them, they got paid.
smackeddog wrote:martin wrote:smackeddog wrote:Can someone explain to me why Grunnie and Woody decide they'd rather have no SF than Cope? Thought when they failed to re-sign him it was because try had something lined up. But now brand isn't going to sign with us and we've moved on to looking at Bell and petrius, it's pretty clear we have NOTHING lined up! What were they thinking?!
The Knicks had the mini-MLE (about $3+m) to sign both Prigs and Cope. Prigs got something like $1.7M and all that was left was another $1.7M, and it was outmatched by Indiana. Them the limitations within the new CBA. PG def a priority over SF.
Cope made it sound like he was willing to take less to stay, but we didn't make him an offer. He or his agent could be lying, at least that's what I hope! But they gave the impression he might of stayed for that $1.7mil, but we didn't seem to want him.
We did the same thing to Lin - no offer. This team never learns. Hopefully we also didn't sign Leslie to a 1 year deal... 
It will certainly be interesting to see how they use Copeland because they certainly have (too much?) depth at SF.
Knicksfan wrote:It will certainly be interesting to see how they use Copeland because they certainly have (too much?) depth at SF.
they could probably use Cope at both PF/SF. Back up West and Paul.
...Hmmm, I forgot about Granger. Perhaps you are correct, unless their intention is to move him.
Cope's offensive game has a lot more to it than 3 pt shooting.
VDesai wrote:Personally I would've offered Cope the full mini MLE and taken my chances at signing Prigs with the veteran min contact or let him walk for another option. I like Prig but Prig is too limited offensively to be the primary backup PG and as a consequence we are still looking for another guy at the PG position.
Yep Copeland was a better player. We still need another PG anyway. Cope was trade able down the line as well
Jmpasq wrote:VDesai wrote:Personally I would've offered Cope the full mini MLE and taken my chances at signing Prigs with the veteran min contact or let him walk for another option. I like Prig but Prig is too limited offensively to be the primary backup PG and as a consequence we are still looking for another guy at the PG position.
Yep Copeland was a better player. We still need another PG anyway. Cope was trade able down the line as well
Copeland would have become the fan favorite, because he would have the ball in his hands, but that would take it out of Melo's hands.
playa2 wrote:Jmpasq wrote:VDesai wrote:Personally I would've offered Cope the full mini MLE and taken my chances at signing Prigs with the veteran min contact or let him walk for another option. I like Prig but Prig is too limited offensively to be the primary backup PG and as a consequence we are still looking for another guy at the PG position.
Yep Copeland was a better player. We still need another PG anyway. Cope was trade able down the line as well
Copeland would have become the fan favorite, because he would have the ball in his hands, but that would take it out of Melo's hands.
I think it is Lin part II. They don't want any competition for Melo, not fan favorites (e.g. Lin) or scoring from the same position (Cope).
What is "funny" is we are still looking for a point guard and still looking for a true backup to Melo...
earthmansurfer wrote:playa2 wrote:Jmpasq wrote:VDesai wrote:Personally I would've offered Cope the full mini MLE and taken my chances at signing Prigs with the veteran min contact or let him walk for another option. I like Prig but Prig is too limited offensively to be the primary backup PG and as a consequence we are still looking for another guy at the PG position.
Yep Copeland was a better player. We still need another PG anyway. Cope was trade able down the line as well
Copeland would have become the fan favorite, because he would have the ball in his hands, but that would take it out of Melo's hands.
I think it is Lin part II. They don't want any competition for Melo, not fan favorites (e.g. Lin) or scoring from the same position (Cope).
What is "funny" is we are still looking for a point guard and still looking for a true backup to Melo...
You guys crack me up. There are people on this board who hated the Melo trade since Gallo was included yet we basically have a 7 foot version of Gallo and it's a problem. Letting Lin go to Houston was a bad move but giving Lin $8 mil a year for what is basically Ray Felton production and who happens to make half of what Lin does was a bad move.
Now not offering Cope a contract even though everyone on the face of the earth knew he was worth more on the open market and was basically a goner anyway is a bad move because his per 36 minutes is better than Bargs?
earthmansurfer wrote:playa2 wrote:Jmpasq wrote:VDesai wrote:Personally I would've offered Cope the full mini MLE and taken my chances at signing Prigs with the veteran min contact or let him walk for another option. I like Prig but Prig is too limited offensively to be the primary backup PG and as a consequence we are still looking for another guy at the PG position.
Yep Copeland was a better player. We still need another PG anyway. Cope was trade able down the line as well
Copeland would have become the fan favorite, because he would have the ball in his hands, but that would take it out of Melo's hands.
I think it is Lin part II. They don't want any competition for Melo, not fan favorites (e.g. Lin) or scoring from the same position (Cope).
What is "funny" is we are still looking for a point guard and still looking for a true backup to Melo...
I think I am reading things that are pretty ridiculous.
CrushAlot wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:playa2 wrote:Jmpasq wrote:VDesai wrote:Personally I would've offered Cope the full mini MLE and taken my chances at signing Prigs with the veteran min contact or let him walk for another option. I like Prig but Prig is too limited offensively to be the primary backup PG and as a consequence we are still looking for another guy at the PG position.
Yep Copeland was a better player. We still need another PG anyway. Cope was trade able down the line as well
Copeland would have become the fan favorite, because he would have the ball in his hands, but that would take it out of Melo's hands.
I think it is Lin part II. They don't want any competition for Melo, not fan favorites (e.g. Lin) or scoring from the same position (Cope).
What is "funny" is we are still looking for a point guard and still looking for a true backup to Melo...
I think I am reading things that are pretty ridiculous.
Would be funny if it wasn't true.
