Knixkik wrote:tkf wrote:Knixkik wrote:tkf wrote:gunsnewing wrote:And he is cheap and and should be here along with Melo past 2015. Good riddance to everyone else
let me ask, suppose THJ turns out to be a decent player? want him gone? you want chandler gone? why? because he can't guard hibbert? no shame in that....
you keep saying he is cheap, you think he can be a poor mans wade... ok. lets go with that, then why not increase his role.. bye to bargnani, let carmelo walk, get a PG in here to help enhance shumperts game... I mean if 2015 is truly the goal, then we should be thinking much differently now...
tell shumpert if you truly think he can be an Allstar talent, we are going to make you a key player, starter, focal point.. we are going to let you be you... then you can truly assess him and decide where to go by 2015... trust me, on this current team, with this current set up, he is going to be underutilized and under developed...
He is a good compliment to Melo. No need to let Melo walk just to increase Shumpert's role.
shumpert can be a good compliment to anyone. the key is, carmelo isn't a good compliment to him.. time to end the carmelo era, build towards something lasting with a real chance to change this franchise....
You should just let the Melo thing go.
we talking about shumpert, why does everything have to be tied to being a "compliment for melo".. kind of tiring if you ask me... I want the knicks to be great.. melo is not in that picture my man.
tkf wrote:Knixkik wrote:tkf wrote:Knixkik wrote:tkf wrote:gunsnewing wrote:And he is cheap and and should be here along with Melo past 2015. Good riddance to everyone else
let me ask, suppose THJ turns out to be a decent player? want him gone? you want chandler gone? why? because he can't guard hibbert? no shame in that....
you keep saying he is cheap, you think he can be a poor mans wade... ok. lets go with that, then why not increase his role.. bye to bargnani, let carmelo walk, get a PG in here to help enhance shumperts game... I mean if 2015 is truly the goal, then we should be thinking much differently now...
tell shumpert if you truly think he can be an Allstar talent, we are going to make you a key player, starter, focal point.. we are going to let you be you... then you can truly assess him and decide where to go by 2015... trust me, on this current team, with this current set up, he is going to be underutilized and under developed...
He is a good compliment to Melo. No need to let Melo walk just to increase Shumpert's role.
shumpert can be a good compliment to anyone. the key is, carmelo isn't a good compliment to him.. time to end the carmelo era, build towards something lasting with a real chance to change this franchise....
You should just let the Melo thing go.
we talking about shumpert, why does everything have to be tied to being a "compliment for melo".. kind of tiring if you ask me... I want the knicks to be great.. melo is not in that picture my man.
That is just one person's opinion, not everyone's and certainly not the final word. It is your right however to think that.
I think Shumps potential is somewhere between a luxurious Tony Allen and Paul George from this past season. This season will push Shump for sure. He has plenty of competition for the SG spot, that's for sure.
I would rank Shump on a different level as a defender than Allen and George who work with rim protection. IMO
tkf wrote:gunsnewing wrote:I don't know I rather keep Shump and retool after 2015 then trade him now in another trade where we get hosed for another teams castoff. Rondo would be intriguing but I would try everything not to include Shump
shumpert will never reach his potential on this team.. not a great environment. I would like to see him take less threes and work on being a better finisher, dribbler and develop that mid range jumper.. that is key.. but on this team, he just won't have that chance... the best thing for him would have been to develop he and lin in the backcourt, have healthy amare, and build a team with that.. at which point, looking at 2015 would have made more sense. You would truly have time to evaluate your young talent in larger roles.. we added another iso chucker to this team.. do you honestly think that shumpert is going to have a chance to expand his game on a team with carmelo, JR smith and now crapnani? This is not the spurs who created an environment where they are able to let a guy like kawai leonard fully develop... which is sad.. I think shumpert could be a better than decent player.. Honestly I think he will be gone in a year or two and you will hopefully get to see him reach his potential if it isn't too late..
That's silly talk. If Shump works hard on his game and improves in those areas then he will be given more opportunity to do it. Really that simple, It all starts with showing it at practice and working on it at practice. He starts giving Jr Smith all he can handle at practice he will get more opportunities to do it in games.
If Shump is an all star caliber player then he will take the role he wants and not defer. Raymond Felton was given every opportunity to be an all star pg on this team he just isn't that caliber of player. Jr Smith has been given every opportunity to shine with the team as well and he got himself a 6th man award. The opportunities are there.
tkf wrote:NYKBocker wrote:The sad thing is that Shump already had a PG running mate but Knicks let him go. Would have loved for them to develop together.
yep... I said it then and I will say it now.. a true eye towards the future would have been to develop lin and felton.... if carmelo opts out.. HOLLA!!! later chump!! then we can talk about adding a piece or two that would fit well with lin and shumpert providing that they both proved to be the players we thought...
skeng wrote:I think Shumps potential is somewhere between a luxurious Tony Allen and Paul George from this past season. This season will push Shump for sure. He has plenty of competition for the SG spot, that's for sure.
And thats not bad at all
yellowboy90 wrote:I would rank Shump on a different level as a defender than Allen and George who work with rim protection. IMO
I would rank him on a lower level than those two since he hasn't learned how to play off the ball yet. He's great on the ball but he tends to ball watch and gets killed on backdoor cuts.
I think he goes right to Woodsons doghouse if he does anything that gets in Melos way. But yes Woodson should be developing that part of his game
gunsnewing wrote:I think he goes right to Woodsons doghouse if he does anything that gets in Melos way. But yes Woodson should be developing that part of his game
really? what has lead you to believe that?
martin wrote:gunsnewing wrote:I think he goes right to Woodsons doghouse if he does anything that gets in Melos way. But yes Woodson should be developing that part of his game
really? what has lead you to believe that?
I think the offensive system is designed for a heavy dose of Melo so the development of the younger players is stunted in favor of 54wins, winning the division and scoring titles. Pops, Vogel and Thibs are able to see the big picture. Which leads to guys like Leonard, Danny green, Stephenson and butler being key contributors whereas the Knicks Dan iso Melo and when he was out of the game it was ISP JR. Very unimaginative especially considering how streaky JR is and the epic funk he was in.
I'd love for Woodson to prove me wrong though
newyorknewyork wrote:tkf wrote:gunsnewing wrote:I don't know I rather keep Shump and retool after 2015 then trade him now in another trade where we get hosed for another teams castoff. Rondo would be intriguing but I would try everything not to include Shump
shumpert will never reach his potential on this team.. not a great environment. I would like to see him take less threes and work on being a better finisher, dribbler and develop that mid range jumper.. that is key.. but on this team, he just won't have that chance... the best thing for him would have been to develop he and lin in the backcourt, have healthy amare, and build a team with that.. at which point, looking at 2015 would have made more sense. You would truly have time to evaluate your young talent in larger roles.. we added another iso chucker to this team.. do you honestly think that shumpert is going to have a chance to expand his game on a team with carmelo, JR smith and now crapnani? This is not the spurs who created an environment where they are able to let a guy like kawai leonard fully develop... which is sad.. I think shumpert could be a better than decent player.. Honestly I think he will be gone in a year or two and you will hopefully get to see him reach his potential if it isn't too late..
That's silly talk. If Shump works hard on his game and improves in those areas then he will be given more opportunity to do it. Really that simple, It all starts with showing it at practice and working on it at practice. He starts giving Jr Smith all he can handle at practice he will get more opportunities to do it in games.
If Shump is an all star caliber player then he will take the role he wants and not defer. Raymond Felton was given every opportunity to be an all star pg on this team he just isn't that caliber of player. Jr Smith has been given every opportunity to shine with the team as well and he got himself a 6th man award. The opportunities are there.
LOL, it's silly talk? ok.... lets revist this thread by allstar break..
TeamBall wrote:tkf wrote:NYKBocker wrote:The sad thing is that Shump already had a PG running mate but Knicks let him go. Would have loved for them to develop together.
yep... I said it then and I will say it now.. a true eye towards the future would have been to develop lin and felton.... if carmelo opts out.. HOLLA!!! later chump!! then we can talk about adding a piece or two that would fit well with lin and shumpert providing that they both proved to be the players we thought...
that should have been lin and shumpert..
skeng wrote:I think Shumps potential is somewhere between a luxurious Tony Allen and Paul George from this past season. This season will push Shump for sure. He has plenty of competition for the SG spot, that's for sure.
Paul george from last season? WOW!! ok then if that is the case then why are we not building around shumpert like I suggested. I mean the pacers didn't do too bad with the real Paul George.. right?
You saw glimpses with George his rookie year but he was very inconsistent like any young player. Very erractc from the field. But we saw what Vogel did for his game by yr 2
tkf wrote:TeamBall wrote:tkf wrote:NYKBocker wrote:The sad thing is that Shump already had a PG running mate but Knicks let him go. Would have loved for them to develop together.
yep... I said it then and I will say it now.. a true eye towards the future would have been to develop lin and felton.... if carmelo opts out.. HOLLA!!! later chump!! then we can talk about adding a piece or two that would fit well with lin and shumpert providing that they both proved to be the players we thought...
that should have been lin and shumpert..
Why would that be shumpert? hes still on the team
gunsnewing wrote:martin wrote:gunsnewing wrote:I think he goes right to Woodsons doghouse if he does anything that gets in Melos way. But yes Woodson should be developing that part of his game
really? what has lead you to believe that?
I think the offensive system is designed for a heavy dose of Melo so the development of the younger players is stunted in favor of 54wins, winning the division and scoring titles. Pops, Vogel and Thibs are able to see the big picture. Which leads to guys like Leonard, Danny green, Stephenson and butler being key contributors whereas the Knicks Dan iso Melo and when he was out of the game it was ISP JR. Very unimaginative especially considering how streaky JR is and the epic funk he was in.
I'd love for Woodson to prove me wrong though
Shump had a continually bigger role as soon as he got back and throughout the playoffs. I see that continuing.
gunsnewing wrote:martin wrote:gunsnewing wrote:I think he goes right to Woodsons doghouse if he does anything that gets in Melos way. But yes Woodson should be developing that part of his game
really? what has lead you to believe that?
I think the offensive system is designed for a heavy dose of Melo so the development of the younger players is stunted in favor of 54wins, winning the division and scoring titles. Pops, Vogel and Thibs are able to see the big picture. Which leads to guys like Leonard, Danny green, Stephenson and butler being key contributors whereas the Knicks Dan iso Melo and when he was out of the game it was ISP JR. Very unimaginative especially considering how streaky JR is and the epic funk he was in.
I'd love for Woodson to prove me wrong though
It's a little to early to go that route with Shumpert's development considering he was coming off an injury and on a minute restriction. On top of that he was having Knee issues in the playoffs too. Also, Thibs is hardly a big picture coach, he routinely runs his players into the ground but that's a different subject.
gunsnewing wrote:You saw glimpses with George his rookie year but he was very inconsistent like any young player. Very erractc from the field. But we saw what Vogel did for his game by yr 2
He is still erratic from the field and has shot worse and worse as he increased his usage and role if I remember his numbers correctly. He is a good player that is still developing.
yellowboy90 wrote:gunsnewing wrote:You saw glimpses with George his rookie year but he was very inconsistent like any young player. Very erractc from the field. But we saw what Vogel did for his game by yr 2
He is still erratic from the field and has shot worse and worse as he increased his usage and role if I remember his numbers correctly. He is a good player that is still developing.
his shot is never going to set him apart - but his athleticism will. I think his upside is somewhere around what Artest once was... hopefully he stays sane and takes Shump under his wing this year
tkf wrote:skeng wrote:I think Shumps potential is somewhere between a luxurious Tony Allen and Paul George from this past season. This season will push Shump for sure. He has plenty of competition for the SG spot, that's for sure.
Paul george from last season? WOW!! ok then if that is the case then why are we not building around shumpert like I suggested. I mean the pacers didn't do too bad with the real Paul George.. right?
Wow indeed.. I don't think it's ludicrous for Shump to reach a level a notch below George and a notch above Allen. George had a good season this season, but he still has room for a lot of improvement. For Shump to essentially become a Paul George from '12-'13 when he's figured it all out is nothing too crazy. He would be like a high end role player IMO (Shump that is).
