Knicks · Cavs talking Dion Waiters for Shumpert, what you guys think? (page 1)

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/100466...

The Cleveland Cavaliers are actively shopping second-year shooting guard Dion Waiters, according to sources with knowledge of the situation.

Three teams the Cavaliers are known to have spoken with are the New York Knicks, Chicago Bulls and Philadelphia 76ers, the sources said. The Cavs' targets are Iman Shumpert in New York, Evan Turner in Philadelphia and Luol Deng in Chicago, sources said.

It is believed Cleveland has reached out to other clubs as well.

Waiters, whom the Cavaliers drafted with the No. 4 pick in 2012, has a contentious relationship with several teammates, including star point guard Kyrie Irving, and sources say he is open to being traded. In fact, though Waiters has not demanded a trade, he brought up the subject in a three-hour meeting last week with coach Mike Brown and general manager Chris Grant, according to sources.

The Cavaliers are looking to shake things up after a 4-10 start. Part of their problem has been the dysfunction in their locker room. Waiters, a 6-foot-4 guard, got into an altercation with forward Tristan Thompson during a players-only meeting after a 29-point loss to the Minnesota Timberwolves on Nov. 13, sources said.

Sources described the following account:

Irving called the meeting after the game and every player spoke. When Waiters was given the floor, he criticized Thompson and Irving, accusing them of playing "buddy ball'' and often refusing to pass to him. Thompson took umbrage with Waiters' words and went back at him verbally. The two confronted each other but teammates intervened before it could escalate into a fight.

However, Waiters and Irving are not close. Waiters believes the Cavaliers have a double standard when it comes to Irving, sources said. Waiters feels that while Irving is allowed to get away with loafing defensively, making turnovers and taking bad shots, he is taken out of games for such things. Waiters has shared his views with Brown and Grant.

Waiters is slumping after a promising rookie season -- both his scoring and shooting percentage are down.

Is he good? Don't watch enough Cav games to tell, but he's young, good 2 guard size, can play some combo point, and is from the 'Cuse so my guess is he'll get along with Melo. Thoughts?

Undersized SG ow I know Isiah is calling the shots

gunsnewing wrote:Undersized SG ow I know Isiah is calling the shots

He's 6'4, that's normal shooting guard size, same as Wade and Ray Allen.

Also, it's the Cavs proposing the deal, not the Knicks.

Only if we get Jarret Jack in return also.

He has the potential to be a real good player he has more potential than Shumpert after his injuries. Right now he is NOT an efficient player and we would have to take that into consideration--so unless the Knicks have a better deal on the table--it would be a possible needed shake up

Remember Waiters played at Cuse and so did Melo--so they would have the insider on him

Dwayne wade is strong. He was strong as a rookie

Ray Allen is 6-6/6-7 I believe

Waiters could be really good. He was great at Cuse. He might need to mature a bit. I think he could be better than shump. Also, if Philly is looking at moving turner I hope the Knicks at least explore if they would trade him to the Knicks. I'd do waiters for shump. Sounds like both guys could use a change of scenery.

It doesn't look like he's done much in his short career but it's definitely something we should be considering. Here's what nbadraft.net said about him:

NBA Comparison: Dominique Jones/Ben Gordon
Strengths: Waiters' style of play reflects your prototypical combo-guard ... At 6'4 with a strong physical foundation, Waiters can play both on and off the ball throughout stretches of a game ... He's a scorer at heart, but his ability to create off the dribble results in open looks for teammates, which Waiters is capable of finding as a passer ... Always looking to get out in transition, he can change directions off the bounce, effectively absorb and deflect contact and finish at the rim ... Uses screens well off the dribble, recognizes when to hesitate and accelerate over the top ... He's an above average shooter with NBA range ... Comfortable shooting off the dribble inside the arch and via catch and release outside the arch ... Athleticism allows him to penetrate the heart of the defense, where he's illustrated a soft touch on his floater ... Defensively he has active hands and quick feet, and is a constant threat to steal the ball when defending a loose/careless handle ... Often comes out of nowhere for pokes and swipes as an off-ball defender ...

Weaknesses: He's clearly not a point guard, so you wonder how he'll perform offensively against athletic 6'6 NBA 2-guards ... Would see a huge rise in stock if he can learn to facilitate in the halfcourt as a quarterback ... Struggles at times creating good shots in the halfcourt ... With his athleticism and bounce off the dribble, paired with the ability to explosively elevate, Waiters should attack the rim more often (only attempts 2.5 free throws per game) ... Needs to improve as a free throw shooter in general (only 70%) ... Playing at the top of the zone, he hasn't had the experience defending prolific 1s or 2s in isolation...

Overall: Waiters definitely has a future in the NBA playing the same role he does in college ... He's a spark off the bench, can spell your point guard and spread the floor as a spot-up shooter ... In only 22 minutes of action, he racks up 13 points, 3 assists, 2.3 steals on an impressive 52% shooting ... With Scoop Jardine and Kris Joseph graduating, Waiters will have the chance to maximize his value as a junior, with late lottery not an unrealistic goal/landing range

Also, on a side note, the Cleveland Cavaliers are completely fucking incompetent. They just drafted Anthony Bennett, who looks like complete garbage so far, and passed on Oladipo, the best player in the draft, because they already had Waiters. Now they're looking to trade him a dozen games into the season. The lesson? Always draft for talent!

BRIGGS wrote:He has the potential to be a real good player he has more potential than Shumpert after his injuries. Right now he is NOT an efficient player and we would have to take that into consideration--so unless the Knicks have a better deal on the table--it would be a possible needed shake up

Remember Waiters played at Cuse and so did Melo--so they would have the insider on him

I am pretty sure Waiters almost transferred after his freshman year because he didn't like his role/playing time. I also think he credited Boeheim with helping him grow up and mature.

AWESOME! ANOTHER SCORER WHO CAN'T SHOOT!!!

WE ONLY HAVE TWO GUYS WITH NEGATIVE WIN SHARES / 48!!!!

LET'S SIGN A 3RD ONE!!!

Fukk me if this happens.

Deng or Turner would be great pick ups if their teams are looking to move them. Can't imagine the Bulls or Sixers would move either guy to NY for a Shump package.

i was never a huge waiters fan in college, saw him a ton since he went to syracuse. he might be 6'4 but he's not 'small' he's built like a rock. i think the backcourt of him and irving is a bit too small, especially for the way they try and play, so i'm not surprised they are looking to move him. i'd have no problem in trading him for shumpert - waiters is the better player between the two for sure. while shumpert can play defense, offensively, waiters is far superior, he can shoot, he can take his guy off the dribble, can play off the break.

id actually make this trade in a heartbeat if it were actually offered to us.

From a sheer talent standpoint, I like Dion over Bradley Beal. But the kid is a headcase if these reports are true. I'd rather hang tough with THJ than bring this into the locker room.

BigDaddyG wrote:From a sheer talent standpoint, I like Dion over Bradley Beal. But the kid is a headcase if these reports are true. I'd rather hang tough with THJ than bring this into the locker room.

I think he might need to be on a more veteran team. The Knicks are a bit dysfunctional now but they have more vets then the cavs.

BRIGGS wrote:He has the potential to be a real good player he has more potential than Shumpert after his injuries. Right now he is NOT an efficient player and we would have to take that into consideration--so unless the Knicks have a better deal on the table--it would be a possible needed shake up

my worry is that hes uninterested on defense; streaky shooter and has anyone else noticed that we have TWO OTHER SGs already...lol

NYKBocker wrote:Only if we get Jarret Jack in return also.

I agree with this. Send Jr. Smith to Philly for Turner too.

Yea we don't need another inefficient JR type. We need a shooter who can actually shoot or at least defend

I've seen more out of THJ as a shooter

I wonder if the Knicks would try to flip Waiters possibly for Faried if they do this.

I have a question for the CBAxperts - if we traded for Turner, would he be a restricted FA or what? Would we be able to even pay him?