Knicks · Article from Raptors blog mostly about Calderon (page 3)

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:Wow!

I did not know that Calderon was in the 90/50/40 club. That is pretty damn impressive.

Yeah, but his opposing man is in the 95/60/50 club!

Nash could not defend either though he still won two MVP's and was in the 90/50/40 club. Calderon is a putrid defender but hopefully they figure out how to hide him.

Never forget how bad JLin made him look in Toronto.

I am happy that we won't have another dumb chucking PG.

I don't think Calderon is in the 90/50/40 club anyway. Last year, his FT was .825 and 2 point FG% was .464. Career-wise, he's closer but he still doesn't have the FT%

He did it 4 times in his career and one year he was pct points off.

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:Wow!

I did not know that Calderon was in the 90/50/40 club. That is pretty damn impressive.

Yeah, but his opposing man is in the 95/60/50 club!

Nash could not defend either though he still won two MVP's and was in the 90/50/40 club. Calderon is a putrid defender but hopefully they figure out how to hide him.

Never forget how bad JLin made him look in Toronto.

I am happy that we won't have another dumb chucking PG.

I don't think Calderon is in the 90/50/40 club anyway. Last year, his FT was .825 and 2 point FG% was .464. Career-wise, he's closer but he still doesn't have the FT%

He did it 4 times in his career and one year he was pct points off.

Nice.

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:Wow!

I did not know that Calderon was in the 90/50/40 club. That is pretty damn impressive.

Yeah, but his opposing man is in the 95/60/50 club!

Nash could not defend either though he still won two MVP's and was in the 90/50/40 club. Calderon is a putrid defender but hopefully they figure out how to hide him.

Never forget how bad JLin made him look in Toronto.

I am happy that we won't have another dumb chucking PG.

I don't think Calderon is in the 90/50/40 club anyway. Last year, his FT was .825 and 2 point FG% was .464. Career-wise, he's closer but he still doesn't have the FT%

REALLY??? GTFO!!! I'm tired of your pointless nitpicking. Cheer the F up already. We got a better player PERIOD!!! WTF is wrong with you? I can't stand the whining and complaining. Right now this team is in a better position than it was last year. We have some improvements to the roster and we have a clearer cap situation and our pick next summer. Literally the best BB mind we could hope to get in Phil and he's already making a difference. Looks like a nice new coach who is excited and pumped about the job. The players like Fish and seem to respond to him already. WHAT IS THERE TO BITCH ABOUT??? Sure we can have some questions and have yet to see things fully play out, but it's a much better situation now than we were in last year.

Maybe you'd be happier finding a highly censored forum that doesn't allow critical comments.

When the best you can contribute is to nitpick that Jose is not technically in the 90/50/40 club, then it's time for you to wake up to the truth. You have lost perspective. You don't have to love everything Phil has done with the team so far, but come on man. There is a GULF of difference between what we got from Felton as a player and what we should expect from Jose. We all agree that Jose has defensive issues that will be a real concern for this team, but he doesn't compound the problem with being an awful PG or horrid offensive player. On top of that Jose is a better locker room presence. He's all about BB and we really have needed that.

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:Wow!

I did not know that Calderon was in the 90/50/40 club. That is pretty damn impressive.

Yeah, but his opposing man is in the 95/60/50 club!

Nash could not defend either though he still won two MVP's and was in the 90/50/40 club. Calderon is a putrid defender but hopefully they figure out how to hide him.

Never forget how bad JLin made him look in Toronto.

I am happy that we won't have another dumb chucking PG.

I don't think Calderon is in the 90/50/40 club anyway. Last year, his FT was .825 and 2 point FG% was .464. Career-wise, he's closer but he still doesn't have the FT%

REALLY??? GTFO!!! I'm tired of your pointless nitpicking. Cheer the F up already. We got a better player PERIOD!!! WTF is wrong with you? I can't stand the whining and complaining. Right now this team is in a better position than it was last year. We have some improvements to the roster and we have a clearer cap situation and our pick next summer. Literally the best BB mind we could hope to get in Phil and he's already making a difference. Looks like a nice new coach who is excited and pumped about the job. The players like Fish and seem to respond to him already. WHAT IS THERE TO BITCH ABOUT??? Sure we can have some questions and have yet to see things fully play out, but it's a much better situation now than we were in last year.

Maybe you'd be happier finding a highly censored forum that doesn't allow critical comments.

When the best you can contribute is to nitpick that Jose is not technically in the 90/50/40 club, then it's time for you to wake up to the truth. You have lost perspective. You don't have to love everything Phil has done with the team so far, but come on man. There is a GULF of difference between what we got from Felton as a player and what we should expect from Jose. We all agree that Jose has defensive issues that will be a real concern for this team, but he doesn't compound the problem with being an awful PG or horrid offensive player. On top of that Jose is a better locker room presence. He's all about BB and we really have needed that.

Oh I've contributed plenty of other thoughts about Jose but there's no point in repeating them over and over. If you want to repeat yourself all summer, that's your business. I'm not interested in doing that.

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:Wow!

I did not know that Calderon was in the 90/50/40 club. That is pretty damn impressive.

Yeah, but his opposing man is in the 95/60/50 club!

Nash could not defend either though he still won two MVP's and was in the 90/50/40 club. Calderon is a putrid defender but hopefully they figure out how to hide him.

Never forget how bad JLin made him look in Toronto.

I am happy that we won't have another dumb chucking PG.

I don't think Calderon is in the 90/50/40 club anyway. Last year, his FT was .825 and 2 point FG% was .464. Career-wise, he's closer but he still doesn't have the FT%

REALLY??? GTFO!!! I'm tired of your pointless nitpicking. Cheer the F up already. We got a better player PERIOD!!! WTF is wrong with you? I can't stand the whining and complaining. Right now this team is in a better position than it was last year. We have some improvements to the roster and we have a clearer cap situation and our pick next summer. Literally the best BB mind we could hope to get in Phil and he's already making a difference. Looks like a nice new coach who is excited and pumped about the job. The players like Fish and seem to respond to him already. WHAT IS THERE TO BITCH ABOUT??? Sure we can have some questions and have yet to see things fully play out, but it's a much better situation now than we were in last year.

Maybe you'd be happier finding a highly censored forum that doesn't allow critical comments.

When the best you can contribute is to nitpick that Jose is not technically in the 90/50/40 club, then it's time for you to wake up to the truth. You have lost perspective. You don't have to love everything Phil has done with the team so far, but come on man. There is a GULF of difference between what we got from Felton as a player and what we should expect from Jose. We all agree that Jose has defensive issues that will be a real concern for this team, but he doesn't compound the problem with being an awful PG or horrid offensive player. On top of that Jose is a better locker room presence. He's all about BB and we really have needed that.

Oh I've contributed plenty of other thoughts about Jose but there's no point in repeating them over and over. If you want to repeat yourself all summer, that's your business. I'm not interested in doing that.

Yeah sure, try to make it about me. You can't defend the crap you just posted. I explained the problems with it, but since you likely realize that you were in fact nitpicking you won't defend yourself. That's fine. Perhaps you should remain quiet on this subject if this is the extent of what you have to say on the subject. The thing is Jose is closer to the 90/50/40 elite level for his career (87.4/47.9/41.1) than anyone we could hope to have gotten for Felton. The fact is he's been right in that range on many occasions. That's a heck of a jump from the production of Felton to what Jose is capable of. Not even mentioning Jose as a leader on the floor and locker room. WHY NITPICK?

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:Wow!

I did not know that Calderon was in the 90/50/40 club. That is pretty damn impressive.

Yeah, but his opposing man is in the 95/60/50 club!

Nash could not defend either though he still won two MVP's and was in the 90/50/40 club. Calderon is a putrid defender but hopefully they figure out how to hide him.

Never forget how bad JLin made him look in Toronto.

I am happy that we won't have another dumb chucking PG.

I don't think Calderon is in the 90/50/40 club anyway. Last year, his FT was .825 and 2 point FG% was .464. Career-wise, he's closer but he still doesn't have the FT%

REALLY??? GTFO!!! I'm tired of your pointless nitpicking. Cheer the F up already. We got a better player PERIOD!!! WTF is wrong with you? I can't stand the whining and complaining. Right now this team is in a better position than it was last year. We have some improvements to the roster and we have a clearer cap situation and our pick next summer. Literally the best BB mind we could hope to get in Phil and he's already making a difference. Looks like a nice new coach who is excited and pumped about the job. The players like Fish and seem to respond to him already. WHAT IS THERE TO BITCH ABOUT??? Sure we can have some questions and have yet to see things fully play out, but it's a much better situation now than we were in last year.

Maybe you'd be happier finding a highly censored forum that doesn't allow critical comments.

When the best you can contribute is to nitpick that Jose is not technically in the 90/50/40 club, then it's time for you to wake up to the truth. You have lost perspective. You don't have to love everything Phil has done with the team so far, but come on man. There is a GULF of difference between what we got from Felton as a player and what we should expect from Jose. We all agree that Jose has defensive issues that will be a real concern for this team, but he doesn't compound the problem with being an awful PG or horrid offensive player. On top of that Jose is a better locker room presence. He's all about BB and we really have needed that.

Oh I've contributed plenty of other thoughts about Jose but there's no point in repeating them over and over. If you want to repeat yourself all summer, that's your business. I'm not interested in doing that.

Yeah sure, try to make it about me. You can't defend the crap you just posted. I explained the problems with it, but since you likely realize that you were in fact nitpicking you won't defend yourself. That's fine. Perhaps you should remain quiet on this subject if this is the extent of what you have to say on the subject. The thing is Jose is closer to the 90/50/40 elite level for his career (87.4/47.9/41.1) than anyone we could hope to have gotten for Felton. The fact is he's been right in that range on many occasions. That's a heck of a jump from the production of Felton to what Jose is capable of. Not even mentioning Jose as a leader on the floor and locker room. WHY NITPICK?

Why? I was a little bored. Maybe it was unimportant. Actually, everything on here is unimportant since it's just a message board. Who cares?

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:Wow!

I did not know that Calderon was in the 90/50/40 club. That is pretty damn impressive.

Yeah, but his opposing man is in the 95/60/50 club!

Nash could not defend either though he still won two MVP's and was in the 90/50/40 club. Calderon is a putrid defender but hopefully they figure out how to hide him.

Never forget how bad JLin made him look in Toronto.

I am happy that we won't have another dumb chucking PG.

I don't think Calderon is in the 90/50/40 club anyway. Last year, his FT was .825 and 2 point FG% was .464. Career-wise, he's closer but he still doesn't have the FT%

REALLY??? GTFO!!! I'm tired of your pointless nitpicking. Cheer the F up already. We got a better player PERIOD!!! WTF is wrong with you? I can't stand the whining and complaining. Right now this team is in a better position than it was last year. We have some improvements to the roster and we have a clearer cap situation and our pick next summer. Literally the best BB mind we could hope to get in Phil and he's already making a difference. Looks like a nice new coach who is excited and pumped about the job. The players like Fish and seem to respond to him already. WHAT IS THERE TO BITCH ABOUT??? Sure we can have some questions and have yet to see things fully play out, but it's a much better situation now than we were in last year.

Maybe you'd be happier finding a highly censored forum that doesn't allow critical comments.

When the best you can contribute is to nitpick that Jose is not technically in the 90/50/40 club, then it's time for you to wake up to the truth. You have lost perspective. You don't have to love everything Phil has done with the team so far, but come on man. There is a GULF of difference between what we got from Felton as a player and what we should expect from Jose. We all agree that Jose has defensive issues that will be a real concern for this team, but he doesn't compound the problem with being an awful PG or horrid offensive player. On top of that Jose is a better locker room presence. He's all about BB and we really have needed that.

Oh I've contributed plenty of other thoughts about Jose but there's no point in repeating them over and over. If you want to repeat yourself all summer, that's your business. I'm not interested in doing that.

You have? Ive been trying twist your arm into saying anything. Instead your like a gnat... Just present enough to force people to swat at you in annoyance, but aside from that nobody is quite sure what your purpose here is.

If you had read the article and clicked the image it shows the 50/40/90 club and it has him at 6. In 07-08 Calderon indeed reached those numbers.

Two years ago he almost made it again when he shot 49/46/90.

yellowboy90 wrote:If you had read the article and clicked the image it shows the 50/40/90 club and it has him at 6. In 07-08 Calderon indeed reached those numbers.

Two years ago he almost made it again when he shot 49/46/90.

He has done it a number of times - not sure what the qualifying minutes were.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play...

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:Wow!

I did not know that Calderon was in the 90/50/40 club. That is pretty damn impressive.

Yeah, but his opposing man is in the 95/60/50 club!

Nash could not defend either though he still won two MVP's and was in the 90/50/40 club. Calderon is a putrid defender but hopefully they figure out how to hide him.

Never forget how bad JLin made him look in Toronto.

I am happy that we won't have another dumb chucking PG.

I don't think Calderon is in the 90/50/40 club anyway. Last year, his FT was .825 and 2 point FG% was .464. Career-wise, he's closer but he still doesn't have the FT%

He did it 4 times in his career and one year he was pct points off.

I only see him making it 1 1/2 times. I say that because in 08-09 he shot 49.7%

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:If you had read the article and clicked the image it shows the 50/40/90 club and it has him at 6. In 07-08 Calderon indeed reached those numbers.

Two years ago he almost made it again when he shot 49/46/90.

He has done it a number of times - not sure what the qualifying minutes were.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play...

Yeah I was looking at that. Also, Looking at the image in the link Steve Kerr shot 51.5% from three on 237 attempts. That is crazy.

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:If you had read the article and clicked the image it shows the 50/40/90 club and it has him at 6. In 07-08 Calderon indeed reached those numbers.

Two years ago he almost made it again when he shot 49/46/90.

He has done it a number of times - not sure what the qualifying minutes were.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play...

Yeah I was looking at that. Also, Looking at the image in the link Steve Kerr shot 51.5% from three on 237 attempts. That is crazy.

Yeah - it was crazy but steve kerr also did not pass like calderon. He also did not play defense.

I think that Phil has high hopes for calderon as an off the ball shooter. Now he just need melo to be willing to pass to him.

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:If you had read the article and clicked the image it shows the 50/40/90 club and it has him at 6. In 07-08 Calderon indeed reached those numbers.

Two years ago he almost made it again when he shot 49/46/90.

He has done it a number of times - not sure what the qualifying minutes were.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play...

Yeah I was looking at that. Also, Looking at the image in the link Steve Kerr shot 51.5% from three on 237 attempts. That is crazy.

Yeah - it was crazy but steve kerr also did not pass like calderon. He also did not play defense.

I think that Phil has high hopes for calderon as an off the ball shooter. Now he just need melo to be willing to pass to him.

Yeah, I see the connection and Phil has always liked a quality shooting pg. The thing that help Kerr stay on the court was that he was surrounded by a cast of elite defenders on his Bulls and spurs teams. Plus he was a back up which also helped.

Calderon is an interesting player and I am open to see what he will do in this system.

Melo had no issues passing when there were shooters who he was confident in. The thing about the Triangle is that there are so many more possessions where the players have a chance to pass to a cutting teammate. It's just an entirely different way to play compared to any system Melo has been in before. I often complained about Woodson's offense because he didn't have anything going on in his sets. Players were often going East and West and none of the plays really led to the basket. We didn't have a lot of back cuts or curls etc. Well in the triangle the off ball motion and players presenting themselves for the pass are plentiful. It's just a constant rotation of players moving to scoring spots or headed towards the basket. That's gonna lead to more assists for Melo by virtue of the flow of the offense. No special effort on Melo's part.

A good example is the 2010 Lakers against the superb defense of the Celtics. It's one example that can at least come close to showing what it does for a team having all that ball and player motion and spacing. The defense is never able to settle in and focus on one player. This has been the problem for Melo here in NY. When teams can't focus on defending Melo he'll go to another level.

nixluva wrote:Melo had no issues passing when there were shooters who he was confident in. The thing about the Triangle is that there are so many more possessions where the players have a chance to pass to a cutting teammate. It's just an entirely different way to play compared to any system Melo has been in before. I often complained about Woodson's offense because he didn't have anything going on in his sets. Players were often going East and West and none of the plays really led to the basket. We didn't have a lot of back cuts or curls etc. Well in the triangle the off ball motion and players presenting themselves for the pass are plentiful. It's just a constant rotation of players moving to scoring spots or headed towards the basket. That's gonna lead to more assists for Melo by virtue of the flow of the offense. No special effort on Melo's part.

A good example is the 2010 Lakers against the superb defense of the Celtics. It's one example that can at least come close to showing what it does for a team having all that ball and player motion and spacing. The defense is never able to settle in and focus on one player. This has been the problem for Melo here in NY. When teams can't focus on defending Melo he'll go to another level.

Melo has always had issues passing.

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:Melo had no issues passing when there were shooters who he was confident in. The thing about the Triangle is that there are so many more possessions where the players have a chance to pass to a cutting teammate. It's just an entirely different way to play compared to any system Melo has been in before. I often complained about Woodson's offense because he didn't have anything going on in his sets. Players were often going East and West and none of the plays really led to the basket. We didn't have a lot of back cuts or curls etc. Well in the triangle the off ball motion and players presenting themselves for the pass are plentiful. It's just a constant rotation of players moving to scoring spots or headed towards the basket. That's gonna lead to more assists for Melo by virtue of the flow of the offense. No special effort on Melo's part.

A good example is the 2010 Lakers against the superb defense of the Celtics. It's one example that can at least come close to showing what it does for a team having all that ball and player motion and spacing. The defense is never able to settle in and focus on one player. This has been the problem for Melo here in NY. When teams can't focus on defending Melo he'll go to another level.

Melo has always had issues passing.

I bet he does it more this year than ever before. It's a system that lends itself to getting more assists. When you pass to teammates who are in scoring position more often it really helps. Melo will still see defensive attention. He'll have to pass, but now his teammates will be moving rather than just standing around watching him. It's the nature of the offense. Constant ball and player movement. Everyone on the floor is engaged and has something to do on every play. We've NEVER played like that since Melo has been here. Melo will get more catch and shoot looks, but when he posts up, he'll have passing opportunities right in his sight lines.

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:Melo had no issues passing when there were shooters who he was confident in. The thing about the Triangle is that there are so many more possessions where the players have a chance to pass to a cutting teammate. It's just an entirely different way to play compared to any system Melo has been in before. I often complained about Woodson's offense because he didn't have anything going on in his sets. Players were often going East and West and none of the plays really led to the basket. We didn't have a lot of back cuts or curls etc. Well in the triangle the off ball motion and players presenting themselves for the pass are plentiful. It's just a constant rotation of players moving to scoring spots or headed towards the basket. That's gonna lead to more assists for Melo by virtue of the flow of the offense. No special effort on Melo's part.

A good example is the 2010 Lakers against the superb defense of the Celtics. It's one example that can at least come close to showing what it does for a team having all that ball and player motion and spacing. The defense is never able to settle in and focus on one player. This has been the problem for Melo here in NY. When teams can't focus on defending Melo he'll go to another level.

Melo has always had issues passing.

I bet he does it more this year than ever before. It's a system that lends itself to getting more assists. When you pass to teammates who are in scoring position more often it really helps. Melo will still see defensive attention. He'll have to pass, but now his teammates will be moving rather than just standing around watching him. It's the nature of the offense. Constant ball and player movement. Everyone on the floor is engaged and has something to do on every play. We've NEVER played like that since Melo has been here. Melo will get more catch and shoot looks, but when he posts up, he'll have passing opportunities right in his sight lines.

So how many assists do you predict that he will average this year?

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:Melo had no issues passing when there were shooters who he was confident in. The thing about the Triangle is that there are so many more possessions where the players have a chance to pass to a cutting teammate. It's just an entirely different way to play compared to any system Melo has been in before. I often complained about Woodson's offense because he didn't have anything going on in his sets. Players were often going East and West and none of the plays really led to the basket. We didn't have a lot of back cuts or curls etc. Well in the triangle the off ball motion and players presenting themselves for the pass are plentiful. It's just a constant rotation of players moving to scoring spots or headed towards the basket. That's gonna lead to more assists for Melo by virtue of the flow of the offense. No special effort on Melo's part.

A good example is the 2010 Lakers against the superb defense of the Celtics. It's one example that can at least come close to showing what it does for a team having all that ball and player motion and spacing. The defense is never able to settle in and focus on one player. This has been the problem for Melo here in NY. When teams can't focus on defending Melo he'll go to another level.

Melo has always had issues passing.

I bet he does it more this year than ever before. It's a system that lends itself to getting more assists. When you pass to teammates who are in scoring position more often it really helps. Melo will still see defensive attention. He'll have to pass, but now his teammates will be moving rather than just standing around watching him. It's the nature of the offense. Constant ball and player movement. Everyone on the floor is engaged and has something to do on every play. We've NEVER played like that since Melo has been here. Melo will get more catch and shoot looks, but when he posts up, he'll have passing opportunities right in his sight lines.

So how many assists do you predict that he will average this year?

My prediction is 4. I haven't researched the triangle to see if my estimate should be higher.

If the offense can get his ast attempts up to 10-12 range I strongly believe his TS would reach Mega Elite.

I do think an offense like the triangle can manufacture 2 more ast with all the cutting evolved. If you look at Noah or Gasol and how they get their asts you see its off of basic plays. A dribble hand off here or a back door cut there, and even the high post flash. Simple stuff add up quick.

yellowboy90 wrote:If the offense can get his ast attempts up to 10-12 range I strongly believe his TS would reach Mega Elite.

I do think an offense like the triangle can manufacture 2 more ast with all the cutting evolved. If you look at Noah or Gasol and how they get their asts you see its off of basic plays. A dribble hand off here or a back door cut there, and even the high post flash. Simple stuff add up quick.

Yeah, that's the best case scenario, and all we can do now is hope that that happens. Something like that has to happen for him to earn what we're paying him next year.

Point guards average less assists in the triangle but team assists should go up. We should be solid offensively at PG. Defense is a major concern as well as lack of penetration between Calderon and Prigs

That's where Larkin is key. He needs to prove that he is an NBA caliber pg