Knicks · Worst problem Knicks have (page 1)

When you watch every game--you realize that not 1 player is consistent. There is not one player that I can say definitively he goes there and he needs 35 minutes and this is what hes going to give me.

I understand that Phil wants to bring back 7-8 guys for cohesion and chemistry and pretty much hell he has to-- how do you flip that many guys? But the bottom line is if you asked me who the PG is next year--my answer--I have no clue. Who is my SG next year--I have no clue. Who is my SF--I think its Carmelo. Who is my four man--I think it will be my draft pick. Who is the 5--Im not sure.

I think someone down deep in MSG headquarters is under the gun from Dolan to right this ship in one year--but folks its NOT happening and if we try to circumvent the process the right way, it will just be another rotation of 15 years of terrible basketball starting again.

That's right. It is what I've been communicating to Nix tonight. The cupboard is bare. Outbidding for players this off-season would be disastrous and condemn this club to another 5-10 years of purgatory.

When the cupboard is bare, it is necessary to bite the bullet and admit you're fukked. When you admit you're fukked, you also admit you can't build a contender during Melo's window of viability.

That means you rebuild the right way and just carry Melo's salary as the price of doing business or you trade him and clear the roster and really start over with your top pick and whatever players make the roster.

Starting over is hard, but necessary. Any decisions made under the pretense this can turn around in a season or two will lead to hasty decisions and poor allocation of salary.

Jim is interested in one thing: Fixing the Knicks. And he is committed to extending all necessary resources to the task. He has communicated with Phil about the mandate and they are both on the same page. He is ready to make any changes the Phil requests if it is at all possible with an eye toward building the long term contender that Knicks fans deserve. So yes, MSG headquarters has certainly made it clear to the entire organization that fixing the Knicks is job #1.

The best thing that could happen to this club is Phil resigns for "health reasons" and Fish gets canned and Dolan actually sees the light and hires a modern GM and lets them methodically build a team.

I think the odds of Phil bailing within 18 months are pretty damn high. The odds of Dolan seeing the light are unknown, but not outside the realm of possibility. If he doesn't realize it now, then he never will. It is pretty obvious starphuching produced the worst club in the NBA so maybe he understands he might as well do it the right way after all.

I hope Phil leaves and this is what happens.

StraightShot wrote:Jim is interested in one thing: Fixing the Knicks. And he is committed to extending all necessary resources to the task. He has communicated with Phil about the mandate and they are both on the same page. He is ready to make any changes the Phil requests if it is at all possible with an eye toward building the long term contender that Knicks fans deserve. So yes, MSG headquarters has certainly made it clear to the entire organization that fixing the Knicks is job #1.

is that a press release or an official statement?

StraightShot wrote:Jim is interested in one thing: Fixing the Knicks. And he is committed to extending all necessary resources to the task. He has communicated with Phil about the mandate and they are both on the same page. He is ready to make any changes the Phil requests if it is at all possible with an eye toward building the long term contender that Knicks fans deserve. So yes, MSG headquarters has certainly made it clear to the entire organization that fixing the Knicks is job #1.

WTF are you? You don't know jack about the inner workings of MSG. You big fraud.

Right now there is enough backup talent on the Knicks. They have no starter at this moment in time asides from Melo. This coming year the process will go fast I have no doubt about it. The Knicks have to start amassing talent starting now. They have an opportunity to pick up a PF in Sanders who is out there who can start for them next year with out using much cap space. The Knicks will draft a starter and free agency they can pick up quality there.

i think by focusing on a multi-year approach you can accidentally jump into a very fun competitive year next year... it's happened countless times where a young team becomes competitive maybe a year earlier than expected....

it's going to depend largely on who we pick in the draft...

FistOfOakley wrote:i think by focusing on a multi-year approach you can accidentally jump into a very fun competitive year next year... it's happened countless times where a young team becomes competitive maybe a year earlier than expected....

it's going to depend largely on who we pick in the draft...

Maintaining flexibility with younger and cheaper players leaves that upside possibility. It is not calculable or predictable, but it can happen when undervalued players with decent fundamentals decide to play hard together.

That's how you can find out who your roster really is in the next 1-2 years and have a collection of dependable role players to go to war with as you add a key player or two in each season afterwards.

Vmart wrote:Right now there is enough backup talent on the Knicks. They have no starter at this moment in time asides from Melo. This coming year the process will go fast I have no doubt about it. The Knicks have to start amassing talent starting now. They have an opportunity to pick up a PF in Sanders who is out there who can start for them next year with out using much cap space. The Knicks will draft a starter and free agency they can pick up quality there.

Vmart--you want to start with a guy who quit because he couldnt stop smoking dope?

I'm back and forth with Towns and Okafor--that is my only true question mark at this time. The one thing with Jahill--if Coach K played Mason Plumlee at C and Jahill Okafor at PF this discussion of who was number 1 would already be over. No one would talk about what kind of a defender Jahill is because Duke would be able to clog the middle every game. Jahill wouldve still put up 18-9-1.5-1.5 67%. Jahill is roughly 6-10 with shoes on and has a slow quick lift and lateral quickness. He doesn't play long on defense but can he play a smart team brand of basketball defensively--the answer--why not. Can he at 19 years old---hone his game and body--work on defensive fundamentals? Absolutely. But can anyone teach his innate offensive skills? NFW. I think he's the ABSOLUTE safest thing in this draft and for a squad that needs almost ANYTHING that relates to consistency--putting a 20-10 PF in place who is a good passer who scores easily--who qualified to get into Duke academically--I think if the Knicks get lucky--I think we need to go with a sure thing. Piece #1. Thats what Im looking at. My hope is they can get aggressive in this draft but I'm not sure what they are going to do.

BRIGGS wrote:

Vmart wrote:Right now there is enough backup talent on the Knicks. They have no starter at this moment in time asides from Melo. This coming year the process will go fast I have no doubt about it. The Knicks have to start amassing talent starting now. They have an opportunity to pick up a PF in Sanders who is out there who can start for them next year with out using much cap space. The Knicks will draft a starter and free agency they can pick up quality there.

Vmart--you want to start with a guy who quit because he couldnt stop smoking dope?

I'm back and forth with Towns and Okafor--that is my only true question mark at this time. The one thing with Jahill--if Coach K played Mason Plumlee at C and Jahill Okafor at PF this discussion of who was number 1 would already be over. No one would talk about what kind of a defender Jahill is because Duke would be able to clog the middle every game. Jahill wouldve still put up 18-9-1.5-1.5 67%. Jahill is roughly 6-10 with shoes on and has a slow quick lift and lateral quickness. He doesn't play long on defense but can he play a smart team brand of basketball defensively--the answer--why not. Can he at 19 years old---hone his game and body--work on defensive fundamentals? Absolutely. But can anyone teach his innate offensive skills? NFW. I think he's the ABSOLUTE safest thing in this draft and for a squad that needs almost ANYTHING that relates to consistency--putting a 20-10 PF in place who is a good passer who scores easily--who qualified to get into Duke academically--I think if the Knicks get lucky--I think we need to go with a sure thing. Piece #1. Thats what Im looking at. My hope is they can get aggressive in this draft but I'm not sure what they are going to do.

If you could get OK4, how do you feel about Asik to complete the front line?

if anything a big man with defensive issues is a pretty big risk imo... that's a huge piece you have to shape your roster around to accommodate..

StraightShot wrote:Jim is interested in one thing: Fixing the Knicks. And he is committed to extending all necessary resources to the task. He has communicated with Phil about the mandate and they are both on the same page. He is ready to make any changes the Phil requests if it is at all possible with an eye toward building the long term contender that Knicks fans deserve. So yes, MSG headquarters has certainly made it clear to the entire organization that fixing the Knicks is job #1.

BRIGGS wrote:

Vmart wrote:Right now there is enough backup talent on the Knicks. They have no starter at this moment in time asides from Melo. This coming year the process will go fast I have no doubt about it. The Knicks have to start amassing talent starting now. They have an opportunity to pick up a PF in Sanders who is out there who can start for them next year with out using much cap space. The Knicks will draft a starter and free agency they can pick up quality there.

Vmart--you want to start with a guy who quit because he couldnt stop smoking dope?

I'm back and forth with Towns and Okafor--that is my only true question mark at this time. The one thing with Jahill--if Coach K played Mason Plumlee at C and Jahill Okafor at PF this discussion of who was number 1 would already be over. No one would talk about what kind of a defender Jahill is because Duke would be able to clog the middle every game. Jahill wouldve still put up 18-9-1.5-1.5 67%. Jahill is roughly 6-10 with shoes on and has a slow quick lift and lateral quickness. He doesn't play long on defense but can he play a smart team brand of basketball defensively--the answer--why not. Can he at 19 years old---hone his game and body--work on defensive fundamentals? Absolutely. But can anyone teach his innate offensive skills? NFW. I think he's the ABSOLUTE safest thing in this draft and for a squad that needs almost ANYTHING that relates to consistency--putting a 20-10 PF in place who is a good passer who scores easily--who qualified to get into Duke academically--I think if the Knicks get lucky--I think we need to go with a sure thing. Piece #1. Thats what Im looking at. My hope is they can get aggressive in this draft but I'm not sure what they are going to do.

Sanders has issues yes but I would give a minimal contract and take him on. Players do stupid shyt all day and tomorrow, hell we knew JR was a pot head before he even got caught. Sometimes being away from the game may make him realize he needs to clean it up. Reason to do it he on the cheap, he has good effort when playing your looking at a good shot blocking and rebounding PF. If he doesn't workout than you can drop him not much committed to him.

As for OK4 I like him he is the safest pick and he is my pick.

Instead of throwing out childish insults, lets take it back to BRIGGS original question. Whats wrong with the Knicks? Where do I start.....How about:

1. Threads like this that continue to pop up after every Knick loss, even though we are clearly in Full Tank Mode.
2. Dolans pressure to resign Melo, just to save ticket sales.
3. Fans that want the #1 pick, but refuse to look like crap along the way.
4. A Rookie GM mentoring a Rookie Coach who doesn't know how to develop Rookie players.
5. Phils incorrect analysis that this was originally a playoff team.
6. Impatient fans!

Do I trust Phil as a GM.....no. Do I trust Fisher as a coach.....no. Do I trust Dolan will continue to be hands off.....no.

But I do know we have a chance at the number 1 pick next year....Major cap space over the next two years.....A GM that actually won multiple championships.....A GM that will do his best to protect his triangle system and legacy....A coach that players respect who's also a proven leader....We also have one of the best scorers in the NBA, that commands a double team.

Back to BRIGGS selection of OK4 as the number 1 pick....I'm also going back and forth between him and Towns. But I can see great things with OK4 as a PF, next to Monroe, Cousins, Stein, Any Center with a defensive mind set. What I don't like is Melo at the SF position, entering the last few years of his prime. As you get older, you get slower but stronger. I think Melo's best position will be PF until he retires. Plus, a lineup with Melo, OK4 and Monroe is a decent lineup, but it's also very slow with limited fast break opportunities. It's basically a half court team. I don't know if thats good or bad. Take out OK4 and put in Towns, and you just increased your fast break speed.

Towns or Stein are long leg 7 footers who runs like a deer, and protects the rim with passion. Plus they don't need any offensive plays to impact the game. So Melo can continue to be the scoring beast he wants to be, while the bigs can do what bigs do.....rebound, block shots, alley oop fastbreak dunks, ESPN highlight dunks, and defend multiple positions, including pick and rolls where you need bigs with lateral quickness (Towns).

I don't know man, I'm still up in the air, and most of the time, I'm leaning towards Towns, due to our system and Melo, who likes to have the paint all to himself.

Splat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Vmart wrote:Right now there is enough backup talent on the Knicks. They have no starter at this moment in time asides from Melo. This coming year the process will go fast I have no doubt about it. The Knicks have to start amassing talent starting now. They have an opportunity to pick up a PF in Sanders who is out there who can start for them next year with out using much cap space. The Knicks will draft a starter and free agency they can pick up quality there.

Vmart--you want to start with a guy who quit because he couldnt stop smoking dope?

I'm back and forth with Towns and Okafor--that is my only true question mark at this time. The one thing with Jahill--if Coach K played Mason Plumlee at C and Jahill Okafor at PF this discussion of who was number 1 would already be over. No one would talk about what kind of a defender Jahill is because Duke would be able to clog the middle every game. Jahill wouldve still put up 18-9-1.5-1.5 67%. Jahill is roughly 6-10 with shoes on and has a slow quick lift and lateral quickness. He doesn't play long on defense but can he play a smart team brand of basketball defensively--the answer--why not. Can he at 19 years old---hone his game and body--work on defensive fundamentals? Absolutely. But can anyone teach his innate offensive skills? NFW. I think he's the ABSOLUTE safest thing in this draft and for a squad that needs almost ANYTHING that relates to consistency--putting a 20-10 PF in place who is a good passer who scores easily--who qualified to get into Duke academically--I think if the Knicks get lucky--I think we need to go with a sure thing. Piece #1. Thats what Im looking at. My hope is they can get aggressive in this draft but I'm not sure what they are going to do.

If you could get OK4, how do you feel about Asik to complete the front line?

No I don't like him. While hes a tier 1 rebounder--hes not really a great rim protector doesnt pass the ball well not fast up and won the court. Has a poor injury profile 3/4 years. Pass.

Phil needs to hire a real coach

The 19 3-pointers the Warriors registered were the most the Knicks had ever allowed in a game — the final indignity to Derek Fisher’s poor 3-point defense.

This is not about bad defenders, this about a bad game plan night in and night out.

knicks1248 wrote:Phil needs to hire a real coach

The 19 3-pointers the Warriors registered were the most the Knicks had ever allowed in a game — the final indignity to Derek Fisher’s poor 3-point defense.

This is not about bad defenders, this about a bad game plan night in and night out.

knicks1248--what coach could do materially better than Fischer with this group? You think if Phil himself was coaching wed already be at 50 wins????

blkexec wrote:Instead of throwing out childish insults, lets take it back to BRIGGS original question. Whats wrong with the Knicks? Where do I start.....How about:

1. Threads like this that continue to pop up after every Knick loss, even though we are clearly in Full Tank Mode.
2. Dolans pressure to resign Melo, just to save ticket sales.
3. Fans that want the #1 pick, but refuse to look like crap along the way.
4. A Rookie GM mentoring a Rookie Coach who doesn't know how to develop Rookie players.
5. Phils incorrect analysis that this was originally a playoff team.
6. Impatient fans!

Do I trust Phil as a GM.....no. Do I trust Fisher as a coach.....no. Do I trust Dolan will continue to be hands off.....no.

But I do know we have a chance at the number 1 pick next year....Major cap space over the next two years.....A GM that actually won multiple championships.....A GM that will do his best to protect his triangle system and legacy....A coach that players respect who's also a proven leader....We also have one of the best scorers in the NBA, that commands a double team.

Back to BRIGGS selection of OK4 as the number 1 pick....I'm also going back and forth between him and Towns. But I can see great things with OK4 as a PF, next to Monroe, Cousins, Stein, Any Center with a defensive mind set. What I don't like is Melo at the SF position, entering the last few years of his prime. As you get older, you get slower but stronger. I think Melo's best position will be PF until he retires. Plus, a lineup with Melo, OK4 and Monroe is a decent lineup, but it's also very slow with limited fast break opportunities. It's basically a half court team. I don't know if thats good or bad. Take out OK4 and put in Towns, and you just increased your fast break speed.

Towns or Stein are long leg 7 footers who runs like a deer, and protects the rim with passion. Plus they don't need any offensive plays to impact the game. So Melo can continue to be the scoring beast he wants to be, while the bigs can do what bigs do.....rebound, block shots, alley oop fastbreak dunks, ESPN highlight dunks, and defend multiple positions, including pick and rolls where you need bigs with lateral quickness (Towns).

I don't know man, I'm still up in the air, and most of the time, I'm leaning towards Towns, due to our system and Melo, who likes to have the paint all to himself.

---->But I do know we have a chance at the number 1 pick next year. Nope thanks to Dolan and company we put no restriction on the pick--we have no 1 or 2 next year.

blkexec wrote:
3. Fans that want the #1 pick, but refuse to look like crap along the way.

Exactly- this is tanking, this is what tanking looks like, and most people seem to be unable to handle it.

smackeddog wrote:

blkexec wrote:
3. Fans that want the #1 pick, but refuse to look like crap along the way.

Exactly- this is tanking, this is what tanking looks like, and most people seem to be unable to handle it.

This is Spa-a-a-a-rta! Lol