H1AND1 wrote:I don't get why anyone is suggesting we give _anything_ of value up for Rose besides maybe a future 2nd rounder. He is garbage and a huge risk at this point in his career. I see people suggesting Rolo or Grant? That's insane! Rose isn't even that good anymore when he is on the floor and he is injured all the time. No this has to be a pure salary dump or else the Knicks have been swindled once again.
In fact the Bulls should give the Knicks a pick or an asset to take on rose.
He may not be the Rose he used to be but he proved last year that he can still ball when he is healthy.
I remember Rose repeatedly dunking during warmups while the Bulls were in the playoffs, while some of his teammates had made trips to the hospital. Some said it wasn't a good indicator of wether or not he could play. Would have been a good indicator to me if I had played myself into the hospital. Even if it didn't accurately gauge wether or not Rose was ready to come back, it was disrespectful to very publicly show that you were that far along in your rehab, but wouldn't play.
Also remember Rose talking about how excited he was to sign that next big contract after missing a huge part of his career due to injury. I'm guessing here, but I don't believe that injury he sustained in practice not long after he said that was an accident.
So Rose plays well is on his best behavior, then what happens? We give him the max and hope the same thing that happened to the Bulls doesn't happen to the Knicks? Pass.
I was told from an inside source with connections, who's not a knick fan that they have a long term plan to build a super team in NY. Rose might be the initial piece. Rose and melo will recruit the missing stars like lebron or KD. What's interesting is this came from a non knick fan.
This might be the plan but it doesn't mean it will happen. But adding Rose might be the advertisement you need to bring on another solid vet as the missing puzzle.
CrushAlot wrote:crzymdups wrote:This is probably a situation very similar to Bargnani - if the Bulls can't trade Rose they may just waive him. There's something off with Butler and Rose. If they decide to stick with Butler, they may well just buy out or waive the last year of Rose's deal. If the Knicks could make a package that didn't involve giving up a pick and did involve Calderon... I'd be curious... but I'd hate to include a first round pick.
I don't think you waive a hometown kid who won the MVP. I don't know what the Knicks have to give them though. Jose, Afflalo, and O'Quinn works on trade checker.
For that package, I guess you gotta do it (and like Bonn mentioned, only 1 year left on his deal) but I gotta believe it'll take more than that, starting with Grant AND a future 1st. See now that I don't think we should do -- if that's the price, I'd pass.
CrushAlot wrote:Hoopshype has his salary for next year at $21,323,252. I think if you take that on you give them Jose and get their first round pick. That is a ton of money and puts things on hold for a year. The Knicks don't need to do this. Taking on 15 mil for a year cost a first rounder two years ago with Lin. I think taking on that deal costs the same. I would love to see Gramt/Wroten get the majority of the minutes at the point. This deal would need to really help the Knicks to be worthwhile.
Good point about Lin. Maybe I'm wrong--maybe we're the one's who could score a pick in the deal. Makes me really wonder about his health though, if Chicago's just ready to up and dump him like that.
I just feel we need to be smart here. Like you said, the Knicks don't need to do this. If he's 100% healthy, Chicago would never dream of trading him. No way we overpay for this guy thinking starphuck.. He's obviously not the player he once was.
blkexec wrote:I was told from an inside source with connections, who's not a knick fan that they have a long term plan to build a super team in NY. Rose might be the initial piece. Rose and melo will recruit the missing stars like lebron or KD. What's interesting is this came from a non knick fan.This might be the plan but it doesn't mean it will happen. But adding Rose might be the advertisement you need to bring on another solid vet as the missing puzzle.
Rose might be a complementary piece rather than a cornerstone. But its alright assuming the Knicks get a first-rounder or other useful Bull in any deal.
The stars may start to align this summer for the makings of a superteam. We already have lots of interesting pieces.
newyorker4ever wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Hoopshype has his salary for next year at $21,323,252. I think if you take that on you give them Jose and get their first round pick. That is a ton of money and puts things on hold for a year. The Knicks don't need to do this. Taking on 15 mil for a year cost a first rounder two years ago with Lin. I think taking on that deal costs the same. I would love to see Gramt/Wroten get the majority of the minutes at the point. This deal would need to really help the Knicks to be worthwhile.
There's absolutely zero way that trade would happen. There's other teams that would give more and take less in return to take a one year chance on a guy like D.Rose.
Aside from SAC and MEM if their respective starters leave, who would? Rose has been horrible without his athleticism and has even begun to look flabby. Doesn't bode well for his long-term viability.
H1AND1 wrote:I don't get why anyone is suggesting we give _anything_ of value up for Rose besides maybe a future 2nd rounder. He is garbage and a huge risk at this point in his career. I see people suggesting Rolo or Grant? That's insane! Rose isn't even that good anymore when he is on the floor and he is injured all the time. No this has to be a pure salary dump or else the Knicks have been swindled once again.
In fact the Bulls should give the Knicks a pick or an asset to take on rose.
Yeah, people are fucking nuts. I wonder how many of them are judging Derrick Rose of yore instead of Derrick Rose today.
NardDogNation wrote:H1AND1 wrote:I don't get why anyone is suggesting we give _anything_ of value up for Rose besides maybe a future 2nd rounder. He is garbage and a huge risk at this point in his career. I see people suggesting Rolo or Grant? That's insane! Rose isn't even that good anymore when he is on the floor and he is injured all the time. No this has to be a pure salary dump or else the Knicks have been swindled once again.
In fact the Bulls should give the Knicks a pick or an asset to take on rose.
Yeah, people are fucking nuts. I wonder how many of them are judging Derrick Rose of yore instead of Derrick Rose today.
i agree man. lol. i agree
NardDogNation wrote:H1AND1 wrote:I don't get why anyone is suggesting we give _anything_ of value up for Rose besides maybe a future 2nd rounder. He is garbage and a huge risk at this point in his career. I see people suggesting Rolo or Grant? That's insane! Rose isn't even that good anymore when he is on the floor and he is injured all the time. No this has to be a pure salary dump or else the Knicks have been swindled once again.
In fact the Bulls should give the Knicks a pick or an asset to take on rose.
Yeah, people are fucking nuts. I wonder how many of them are judging Derrick Rose of yore instead of Derrick Rose today.
We need leaders on this squad, not some 20 shots a night pg who couldn't even lead is team to a playoff spot. A guy who gets injured when he wasn't even touched. Even if his contract is expiring, he is not the mentality you want in your locker room. This guy didn't even give melo a shout when he paid them a visit.
newyorker4ever wrote:H1AND1 wrote:I don't get why anyone is suggesting we give _anything_ of value up for Rose besides maybe a future 2nd rounder. He is garbage and a huge risk at this point in his career. I see people suggesting Rolo or Grant? That's insane! Rose isn't even that good anymore when he is on the floor and he is injured all the time. No this has to be a pure salary dump or else the Knicks have been swindled once again.
In fact the Bulls should give the Knicks a pick or an asset to take on rose.
He may not be the Rose he used to be but he proved last year that he can still ball when he is healthy.
he proved last year that he is a horrible player (unless you just completely judge players with your eyes)
Rose for Calderon/Lopez works.
The Knicks would have 27$M in space to go after a Center like Dwight Howard, Pau Gasol, Al Horford or even Hassan Whiteside, assuming Afflalo opts out which he likely will.
I think Dwight would seriously consider the Knicks. He is good friends with Melo and has in the past yearned to be coached by Phil. He has a great deal of appreciation for the Triangle and an offence that caters to big man play. If we can find a taker for O'Quinn, the Knicks could even keep Afflalo.
Howard
Porzingis
Melo
Afflalo
Rose
That's a much much better starting 5 than last year and likely good enough to compete with any team in the East. On the flip though it also screams of a NY Knick team of the past where there's a lot of stars in one lineup past their athletic prime. The only reason I could see it work is KP. He's so young and athletic and full of promise that he can engage the team into being something different from the Knick teams of the past which were filled with stars past their prime on a 1st round playoff exit team. If KP improves over the summer and can be relied on to give that starting 5 energy, defense and great outside shooting - perhaps it can work. But one thing that lineup does not lack is talent. I don't know if talent would fit.
I also believe that Phil wants to build a team with character guys who play for the name on the front and nothing else. Guys like Robin Lopez do that. Even Calderon is an outstanding teammate. The Knicks may lack talent right now to be a contender but with their anticipated 27$M in cap space, after using that to sigh some guards, we may be a team talented enough to make the top 6 of the East.
I'm torn - but considering we aren't giving up any draft picks to put that team together or young players im surprisingly ok with making a run at Rose and then trying to sign a Center like Pau, Dwight or Horford.
Melo is heading into the last 2 years of his all star level of play in my opinion, so if you have a chance to put together a team with Porzingis, Howard or Gasol and Rose around him and you haven't lost draft picks like KP, Grant or future picks in the process, I think it's worth the risk. When Roses contract expires in a year you can make a run for Westbrook.
Do not think D.Howard would fit into a hornacek coached team, but can see Gasol on this team.
Ideally KD is the free agent we'd all like to have. If there's $ left over I'd take a flier on Eric Gordan. Add Rose and you have a potentially bad ass starting 5.
Pg: Rose
Sg: Gordan
Sf: Durant
Pf: Anthony
C: Porzingis
nyknickzingis wrote:Rose for Calderon/Lopez works.
The Knicks would have 27$M in space to go after a Center like Dwight Howard, Pau Gasol, Al Horford or even Hassan Whiteside, assuming Afflalo opts out which he likely will. I think Dwight would seriously consider the Knicks. He is good friends with Melo and has in the past yearned to be coached by Phil. He has a great deal of appreciation for the Triangle and an offence that caters to big man play. If we can find a taker for O'Quinn, the Knicks could even keep Afflalo.
Howard
Porzingis
Melo
Afflalo
Rose
That's a much much better starting 5 than last year and likely good enough to compete with any team in the East. On the flip though it also screams of a NY Knick team of the past where there's a lot of stars in one lineup past their athletic prime. The only reason I could see it work is KP. He's so young and athletic and full of promise that he can engage the team into being something different from the Knick teams of the past which were filled with stars past their prime on a 1st round playoff exit team. If KP improves over the summer and can be relied on to give that starting 5 energy, defense and great outside shooting - perhaps it can work. But one thing that lineup does not lack is talent. I don't know if talent would fit.
I also believe that Phil wants to build a team with character guys who play for the name on the front and nothing else. Guys like Robin Lopez do that. Even Calderon is an outstanding teammate. The Knicks may lack talent right now to be a contender but with their anticipated 27$M in cap space, after using that to sigh some guards, we may be a team talented enough to make the top 6 of the East.
I'm torn - but considering we aren't giving up any draft picks to put that team together or young players im surprisingly ok with making a run at Rose and then trying to sign a Center like Pau, Dwight or Horford.
Melo is heading into the last 2 years of his all star level of play in my opinion, so if you have a chance to put together a team with Porzingis, Howard or Gasol and Rose around him and you haven't lost draft picks like KP, Grant or future picks in the process, I think it's worth the risk. When Roses contract expires in a year you can make a run for Westbrook.
I guess you would really have to hope that Rose wants to be a good teammate and play the right way because it is a contract year. Rose has never spoken like a team first guy in the media or when he was recovering/resting to protect himself. Didn't he say it wasn't his job when asked about being a part of the recruiting team to try and add Melo? Rose was an amazing player when he first came into the league. He seems like he sprinted down the Deron Williams path to get to the not good teammate. not good ball player, constantly injured status.
newyorker4ever wrote:H1AND1 wrote:I don't get why anyone is suggesting we give _anything_ of value up for Rose besides maybe a future 2nd rounder. He is garbage and a huge risk at this point in his career. I see people suggesting Rolo or Grant? That's insane! Rose isn't even that good anymore when he is on the floor and he is injured all the time. No this has to be a pure salary dump or else the Knicks have been swindled once again.
In fact the Bulls should give the Knicks a pick or an asset to take on rose.
He may not be the Rose he used to be but he proved last year that he can still ball when he is healthy.
This is one hell of a caveat
TLover wrote:Do not think D.Howard would fit into a hornacek coached team, but can see Gasol on this team.
Ideally KD is the free agent we'd all like to have. If there's $ left over I'd take a flier on Eric Gordan. Add Rose and you have a potentially bad ass starting 5.Pg: Rose
Sg: Gordan
Sf: Durant
Pf: Anthony
C: Porzingis
Who are they covering on defense?
nyknickzingis wrote:Rose for Calderon/Lopez works.
The Knicks would have 27$M in space to go after a Center like Dwight Howard, Pau Gasol, Al Horford or even Hassan Whiteside, assuming Afflalo opts out which he likely will. I think Dwight would seriously consider the Knicks. He is good friends with Melo and has in the past yearned to be coached by Phil. He has a great deal of appreciation for the Triangle and an offence that caters to big man play. If we can find a taker for O'Quinn, the Knicks could even keep Afflalo.
Howard
Porzingis
Melo
Afflalo
Rose
That's a much much better starting 5 than last year and likely good enough to compete with any team in the East. On the flip though it also screams of a NY Knick team of the past where there's a lot of stars in one lineup past their athletic prime. The only reason I could see it work is KP. He's so young and athletic and full of promise that he can engage the team into being something different from the Knick teams of the past which were filled with stars past their prime on a 1st round playoff exit team. If KP improves over the summer and can be relied on to give that starting 5 energy, defense and great outside shooting - perhaps it can work. But one thing that lineup does not lack is talent. I don't know if talent would fit.
I also believe that Phil wants to build a team with character guys who play for the name on the front and nothing else. Guys like Robin Lopez do that. Even Calderon is an outstanding teammate. The Knicks may lack talent right now to be a contender but with their anticipated 27$M in cap space, after using that to sigh some guards, we may be a team talented enough to make the top 6 of the East.
I'm torn - but considering we aren't giving up any draft picks to put that team together or young players im surprisingly ok with making a run at Rose and then trying to sign a Center like Pau, Dwight or Horford.
Melo is heading into the last 2 years of his all star level of play in my opinion, so if you have a chance to put together a team with Porzingis, Howard or Gasol and Rose around him and you haven't lost draft picks like KP, Grant or future picks in the process, I think it's worth the risk. When Roses contract expires in a year you can make a run for Westbrook.
That lineup is naseauting. You're giving away the only asset on the team outside of KP and Melo (Robin Lopez) for a net negative asset (Derrick Rose). And when you deal Lopez, you are- in effect- moving (a) first round pick(s) because that's what he could return in a trade.
It bothers me as a Knick fan how we've yet to learn from the Andrea Bargnani-styled deals. Can you explain to me how the two are fundamentally different?
I think I would rather try to build a team around draft picks that start walking down starphuch lane again.
Derrick Rose would be bad enough on his own, but if Dwight Howard were involved, I don't know if I could watch the team.
I think something that needs to be clearly understood is that Rose cannot be traded for value. In other words the Knicks should not under any circumstance treat Rose as an incoming asset. Any Rose trade needs to be treated as if Chicago was borrowing Dolan's money [e.g. cap space] for a year. And in consideration for borrowing that money Chicago would have to sweeten the trade considerably.
So when I see Knicks fan's agonizing about how lopsided any Rose trade will be, I am perplexed. Rose would strictly be a rental unless proven otherwise. The payoff for the Knicks would, IMO, have to be at least that first-rounder and maybe a second-rounder as well with the trade being little more than Calderon and change.
fwk00 wrote:I think something that needs to be clearly understood is that Rose cannot be traded for value. In other words the Knicks should not under any circumstance treat Rose as an incoming asset. Any Rose trade needs to be treated as if Chicago was borrowing Dolan's money [e.g. cap space] for a year. And in consideration for borrowing that money Chicago would have to sweeten the trade considerably.So when I see Knicks fan's agonizing about how lopsided any Rose trade will be, I am perplexed. Rose would strictly be a rental unless proven otherwise. The payoff for the Knicks would, IMO, have to be at least that first-rounder and maybe a second-rounder as well with the trade being little more than Calderon and change.
Yeah the Knicks would be doing the Bulls a favor by taking Rose off their books.
