fwk00 wrote:I think something that needs to be clearly understood is that Rose cannot be traded for value. In other words the Knicks should not under any circumstance treat Rose as an incoming asset. Any Rose trade needs to be treated as if Chicago was borrowing Dolan's money [e.g. cap space] for a year. And in consideration for borrowing that money Chicago would have to sweeten the trade considerably.So when I see Knicks fan's agonizing about how lopsided any Rose trade will be, I am perplexed. Rose would strictly be a rental unless proven otherwise. The payoff for the Knicks would, IMO, have to be at least that first-rounder and maybe a second-rounder as well with the trade being little more than Calderon and change.
Yeah the Knicks would be doing the Bulls a favor by taking Rose off their books.
crzymdups wrote:I think I would rather try to build a team around draft picks that start walking down starphuch lane again.Derrick Rose would be bad enough on his own, but if Dwight Howard were involved, I don't know if I could watch the team.
Trading for Derrick Rose could be a means to that end. I can't imagine a trade occurring without us recieving some form of compensation in return: the most likely being picks, which the Bulls have enough of. And if it came down to it, I'd take their lottery pick this year in a heartbeat for a one-year rental of Rose. We could just as easily stretch his incoming salary and still be in a position to upgrade our roster should a Mike Conley walk through the door. It'd only cost us about $6.65 million of cap space per year for the next 3 years, which is more than reasonable.
22 million dollars for a low lottery pick; doubt the owner goes for that.
Considering D. Rose started to show signs of his old game last season is promising. Not to mention, he's better than what we have now.
YouTube last game he played against the Knicks. He was ball'n.
Have no problem trading Lopez for him. If we can get a draft pick thrown in, even better.
If it doesn't work out he's off the books after the season.
TLover wrote:22 million dollars for a low lottery pick; doubt the owner goes for that.Considering D. Rose started to show signs of his old game last season is promising. Not to mention, he's better than what we have now.
YouTube last game he played against the Knicks. He was ball'n.
Have no problem trading Lopez for him. If we can get a draft pick thrown in, even better.
If it doesn't work out he's off the books after the season.
I think it is worth considering. Only if Conley says no.
Derrick Rose to me is a risk on par with Rondo or Jennings. Slightly higher upside. More risk for downside. Not a "no brainer" trade, but something you think about.
TLover wrote:22 million dollars for a low lottery pick; doubt the owner goes for that.Considering D. Rose started to show signs of his old game last season is promising. Not to mention, he's better than what we have now.
YouTube last game he played against the Knicks. He was ball'n.
Have no problem trading Lopez for him. If we can get a draft pick thrown in, even better.
If it doesn't work out he's off the books after the season.
If Rose was "ball'n" so well last season, why are the Bulls looking to get rid of him ESPECIALLY when you consider that he's the hometown kid with a HUGE fan following? None of that sounds like anything that's good for business, which this is effectively about at the end of the day.
crzymdups wrote:TLover wrote:22 million dollars for a low lottery pick; doubt the owner goes for that.Considering D. Rose started to show signs of his old game last season is promising. Not to mention, he's better than what we have now.
YouTube last game he played against the Knicks. He was ball'n.
Have no problem trading Lopez for him. If we can get a draft pick thrown in, even better.
If it doesn't work out he's off the books after the season.
I think it is worth considering. Only if Conley says no.
Derrick Rose to me is a risk on par with Rondo or Jennings. Slightly higher upside. More risk for downside. Not a "no brainer" trade, but something you think about.
It may be worth considering if it's a pure contract dump. It's lunancy if it involves us giving up assets for a guy who has only played in 50% of his games over 4 seasons (per info provided by RealGM).
Andrea Bargnani was a ridiculous trade from the jump. This one may very well be more foolish.
NardDogNation wrote:crzymdups wrote:TLover wrote:22 million dollars for a low lottery pick; doubt the owner goes for that.Considering D. Rose started to show signs of his old game last season is promising. Not to mention, he's better than what we have now.
YouTube last game he played against the Knicks. He was ball'n.
Have no problem trading Lopez for him. If we can get a draft pick thrown in, even better.
If it doesn't work out he's off the books after the season.
I think it is worth considering. Only if Conley says no.
Derrick Rose to me is a risk on par with Rondo or Jennings. Slightly higher upside. More risk for downside. Not a "no brainer" trade, but something you think about.
It may be worth considering if it's a pure contract dump. It's lunancy if it involves us giving up assets for a guy who has only played in 50% of his games over 4 seasons (per info provided by RealGM).
Andrea Bargnani was a ridiculous trade from the jump. This one may very well be more foolish.
I would not give up anything of value. I think Jose Calderon should be enough.
The Bargnani thing was awful because it was so bad for team chemistry. Not sure if Rose would be.
Of the legit PG options, Rose would be 4th on my list behind Conley, Rondo, Jennings. Rose I'd have to think about and if it involved giving up a first round pick, the answer would prob be no.
I hate the idea of rentals. I prefer continuity at this point. Rose is a little high on himself and still views himself as an alpha superstar. His WS/48 numbers are so mind numbingly bad its a hard to believe. He's just not a good player anymore. I would much prefer a guy like Rondo who will at least get your other players good looks, or Jennings who if he looks good physically could be a good piece moving forward...
Just too hard to envision a Rose scenario I like. For Jose? I would rather have Jose shooting 3s off the bench for 18-20 mpg than Rose thinking he's still an MVP for 35. With Jose at least you know the focus is on the younger guys taking over. Rose will be all about Rose Rose Rose
mreinman wrote:fishmike wrote:I hate the idea of rentals. I prefer continuity at this point. Rose is a little high on himself and still views himself as an alpha superstar. His WS/48 numbers are so mind numbingly bad its a hard to believe. He's just not a good player anymore. I would much prefer a guy like Rondo who will at least get your other players good looks, or Jennings who if he looks good physically could be a good piece moving forward... Just too hard to envision a Rose scenario I like. For Jose? I would rather have Jose shooting 3s off the bench for 18-20 mpg than Rose thinking he's still an MVP for 35. With Jose at least you know the focus is on the younger guys taking over. Rose will be all about Rose Rose Rose
good for you!
Well there is context.. and its especially telling because Chi is a 500 ish team. That stat gets washed out when the player's team is either elite or terrible, but his advanced stats pre/post injury are telling.
That being said don't get too excited.. its just a number. If that was the golden stat than I could say we need more players like Amare 
I love Rose, but i am not giving up much more than 2 out of the 3 of Afflalo, O Quinn, or Calderon. They want a young guy like Grant (a 1st), or Galloway (2 2nds minimum) they need to throw in picks.
The real key to bringing Rose here is tempering expectations on him. He gives me that 15 5 4 line or so that is perfect and he is a nice piece to add that will make them better, maybe attract new better players, and of he does get back to where he was or maybe alters his game like LJ did when he got here it is a major bonus.
joec32033 wrote:I love Rose, but i am not giving up much more than 2 out of the 3 of Afflalo, O Quinn, or Calderon. They want a young guy like Grant (a 1st), or Galloway (2 2nds minimum) they need to throw in picks.The real key to bringing Rose here is tempering expectations on him. He gives me that 15 5 4 line or so that is perfect and he is a nice piece to add that will make them better, maybe attract new better players, and of he does get back to where he was or maybe alters his game like LJ did when he got here it is a major bonus.
here's the thing.. he wants to get PAID. So you have a guy at 27-28 years old looking to show he's still worth a huge payday. Do you want that situation on the roster when your still trying to break in young guards (Wroten/Grant)? There are so many negative factors to taking on Rose I would just pass. It would have to be a lunacy deal like Rose + pick #14 for Jose where Chi is basically paying us $13mm and a pick to take Rose's salary. If that was the case and he started playing well I would trade high at the first moment's notice
I think that Rose will have a good season because its his contract year. I also think that the Bulls desperately want to rid themselves of his salary and we can acquire assets by taking him in a trade for, say, Calderon. If we can gain a good draft pick or another player along with Rose for Jose then you do it.
crzymdups wrote:NardDogNation wrote:crzymdups wrote:TLover wrote:22 million dollars for a low lottery pick; doubt the owner goes for that.Considering D. Rose started to show signs of his old game last season is promising. Not to mention, he's better than what we have now.
YouTube last game he played against the Knicks. He was ball'n.
Have no problem trading Lopez for him. If we can get a draft pick thrown in, even better.
If it doesn't work out he's off the books after the season.
I think it is worth considering. Only if Conley says no.
Derrick Rose to me is a risk on par with Rondo or Jennings. Slightly higher upside. More risk for downside. Not a "no brainer" trade, but something you think about.
It may be worth considering if it's a pure contract dump. It's lunancy if it involves us giving up assets for a guy who has only played in 50% of his games over 4 seasons (per info provided by RealGM).
Andrea Bargnani was a ridiculous trade from the jump. This one may very well be more foolish.
I would not give up anything of value. I think Jose Calderon should be enough.
The Bargnani thing was awful because it was so bad for team chemistry. Not sure if Rose would be.
Of the legit PG options, Rose would be 4th on my list behind Conley, Rondo, Jennings. Rose I'd have to think about and if it involved giving up a first round pick, the answer would prob be no.
Calderon for Rose, I could tolerate but TLover was talking about giving up assets for him like Robin Lopez. That's a bad idea especially if there are still options on the table.
The only thing that would make me forego maintaining money for a Mike Conley is if Derrick Rose came with the Bulls' pick this year. And even so, I'd still be inclined to use the stretch provision on him just to get the pick.
fishmike wrote:I hate the idea of rentals. I prefer continuity at this point. Rose is a little high on himself and still views himself as an alpha superstar. His WS/48 numbers are so mind numbingly bad its a hard to believe. He's just not a good player anymore. I would much prefer a guy like Rondo who will at least get your other players good looks, or Jennings who if he looks good physically could be a good piece moving forward... Just too hard to envision a Rose scenario I like. For Jose? I would rather have Jose shooting 3s off the bench for 18-20 mpg than Rose thinking he's still an MVP for 35. With Jose at least you know the focus is on the younger guys taking over. Rose will be all about Rose Rose Rose
You wouldn't do it if the Bulls included a pick? I would and then would stretch his contract.
fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:I love Rose, but i am not giving up much more than 2 out of the 3 of Afflalo, O Quinn, or Calderon. They want a young guy like Grant (a 1st), or Galloway (2 2nds minimum) they need to throw in picks.The real key to bringing Rose here is tempering expectations on him. He gives me that 15 5 4 line or so that is perfect and he is a nice piece to add that will make them better, maybe attract new better players, and of he does get back to where he was or maybe alters his game like LJ did when he got here it is a major bonus.
here's the thing.. he wants to get PAID. So you have a guy at 27-28 years old looking to show he's still worth a huge payday. Do you want that situation on the roster when your still trying to break in young guards (Wroten/Grant)? There are so many negative factors to taking on Rose I would just pass. It would have to be a lunacy deal like Rose + pick #14 for Jose where Chi is basically paying us $13mm and a pick to take Rose's salary. If that was the case and he started playing well I would trade high at the first moment's notice
To maximize our return from the Bulls, I'd look to peddle off Calderon on the Sixers. That'd allow the Bulls to completely free up $20 million of cap space flexibility, which would be far more appealing than Calderon + $13 million of cap space flexibility.
NardDogNation wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:I love Rose, but i am not giving up much more than 2 out of the 3 of Afflalo, O Quinn, or Calderon. They want a young guy like Grant (a 1st), or Galloway (2 2nds minimum) they need to throw in picks.The real key to bringing Rose here is tempering expectations on him. He gives me that 15 5 4 line or so that is perfect and he is a nice piece to add that will make them better, maybe attract new better players, and of he does get back to where he was or maybe alters his game like LJ did when he got here it is a major bonus.
here's the thing.. he wants to get PAID. So you have a guy at 27-28 years old looking to show he's still worth a huge payday. Do you want that situation on the roster when your still trying to break in young guards (Wroten/Grant)? There are so many negative factors to taking on Rose I would just pass. It would have to be a lunacy deal like Rose + pick #14 for Jose where Chi is basically paying us $13mm and a pick to take Rose's salary. If that was the case and he started playing well I would trade high at the first moment's notice
To maximize our return from the Bulls, I'd look to peddle off Calderon on the Sixers. That'd allow the Bulls to completely free up $20 million of cap space flexibility, which would be far more appealing than Calderon + $13 million of cap space flexibility.
How would you get Philly to take Jose.
CrushAlot wrote:NardDogNation wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:I love Rose, but i am not giving up much more than 2 out of the 3 of Afflalo, O Quinn, or Calderon. They want a young guy like Grant (a 1st), or Galloway (2 2nds minimum) they need to throw in picks.The real key to bringing Rose here is tempering expectations on him. He gives me that 15 5 4 line or so that is perfect and he is a nice piece to add that will make them better, maybe attract new better players, and of he does get back to where he was or maybe alters his game like LJ did when he got here it is a major bonus.
here's the thing.. he wants to get PAID. So you have a guy at 27-28 years old looking to show he's still worth a huge payday. Do you want that situation on the roster when your still trying to break in young guards (Wroten/Grant)? There are so many negative factors to taking on Rose I would just pass. It would have to be a lunacy deal like Rose + pick #14 for Jose where Chi is basically paying us $13mm and a pick to take Rose's salary. If that was the case and he started playing well I would trade high at the first moment's notice
To maximize our return from the Bulls, I'd look to peddle off Calderon on the Sixers. That'd allow the Bulls to completely free up $20 million of cap space flexibility, which would be far more appealing than Calderon + $13 million of cap space flexibility.
How would you get Philly to take Jose.
Cash...all we've got ($3.4 million, right?). Remember that the Sixers desperately need a veteran presence and enough money to reach the cap floor ($70-ish million). Calderon allows them to achieve both ends and if we threw in money, the Sixers wouldn't even be responsible for his full salary. Also, the Colangelo- Toronto connection between both parties bodes well to it happening.
NardDogNation wrote:CrushAlot wrote:NardDogNation wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:I love Rose, but i am not giving up much more than 2 out of the 3 of Afflalo, O Quinn, or Calderon. They want a young guy like Grant (a 1st), or Galloway (2 2nds minimum) they need to throw in picks.The real key to bringing Rose here is tempering expectations on him. He gives me that 15 5 4 line or so that is perfect and he is a nice piece to add that will make them better, maybe attract new better players, and of he does get back to where he was or maybe alters his game like LJ did when he got here it is a major bonus.
here's the thing.. he wants to get PAID. So you have a guy at 27-28 years old looking to show he's still worth a huge payday. Do you want that situation on the roster when your still trying to break in young guards (Wroten/Grant)? There are so many negative factors to taking on Rose I would just pass. It would have to be a lunacy deal like Rose + pick #14 for Jose where Chi is basically paying us $13mm and a pick to take Rose's salary. If that was the case and he started playing well I would trade high at the first moment's notice
To maximize our return from the Bulls, I'd look to peddle off Calderon on the Sixers. That'd allow the Bulls to completely free up $20 million of cap space flexibility, which would be far more appealing than Calderon + $13 million of cap space flexibility.
How would you get Philly to take Jose.
Cash...all we've got ($3.4 million, right?). Remember that the Sixers desperately need a veteran presence and enough money to reach the cap floor ($70-ish million). Calderon allows them to achieve both ends and if we threw in money, the Sixers wouldn't even be responsible for his full salary. Also, the Colangelo- Toronto connection between both parties bodes well to it happening.
I don't think so. I read an article speculating this (daily knicks?). I don't think there is a market for Jose.
CrushAlot wrote:NardDogNation wrote:CrushAlot wrote:NardDogNation wrote:fishmike wrote:joec32033 wrote:I love Rose, but i am not giving up much more than 2 out of the 3 of Afflalo, O Quinn, or Calderon. They want a young guy like Grant (a 1st), or Galloway (2 2nds minimum) they need to throw in picks.The real key to bringing Rose here is tempering expectations on him. He gives me that 15 5 4 line or so that is perfect and he is a nice piece to add that will make them better, maybe attract new better players, and of he does get back to where he was or maybe alters his game like LJ did when he got here it is a major bonus.
here's the thing.. he wants to get PAID. So you have a guy at 27-28 years old looking to show he's still worth a huge payday. Do you want that situation on the roster when your still trying to break in young guards (Wroten/Grant)? There are so many negative factors to taking on Rose I would just pass. It would have to be a lunacy deal like Rose + pick #14 for Jose where Chi is basically paying us $13mm and a pick to take Rose's salary. If that was the case and he started playing well I would trade high at the first moment's notice
To maximize our return from the Bulls, I'd look to peddle off Calderon on the Sixers. That'd allow the Bulls to completely free up $20 million of cap space flexibility, which would be far more appealing than Calderon + $13 million of cap space flexibility.
How would you get Philly to take Jose.
Cash...all we've got ($3.4 million, right?). Remember that the Sixers desperately need a veteran presence and enough money to reach the cap floor ($70-ish million). Calderon allows them to achieve both ends and if we threw in money, the Sixers wouldn't even be responsible for his full salary. Also, the Colangelo- Toronto connection between both parties bodes well to it happening.
I don't think so. I read an article speculating this (daily knicks?). I don't think there is a market for Jose.
And how/where will the Sixers find the $50 million in salaries necessary to reach the cap floor? After all, no real free agents will sign there.
