Knicks · Sources: Phil Jackson unhappy with Knicks' limited use of triangle offense... (page 1)

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/17998...

Phil Jackson hasn't been pleased with the New York Knicks' performance on offense -- particularly with the number of times the team has run the triangle offense -- during their 2-4 start, league sources told ESPN.

New Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek has tried to speed up the offense this season and hasn't run much of the triangle in the first six games. After watching the Knicks' win against the Chicago Bulls on Friday, one Eastern Conference scout said the Knicks ran something out of a triangle set only a handful of times.

Hornacek has said that he's implementing "principles of the triangle" offense into the Knicks' half-court offense. But he also wants his club to try to generate offense early in the shot clock in transition, where pick-and-roll would be employed.

Players say that they've run the triangle offense primarily after dead balls so far this season, which is much less frequently than it was run during Jackson's first two full seasons as team president.

The Knicks rank 13th in offensive efficiency thus far. A bigger issue for the club is on defense; it entered play Monday ranked last in the NBA in points allowed per 100 possessions, which is likely bothering Jackson just as much as the offense.
The New York Knicks are averaging 102.2 points per game this season while giving up an average of 109.8 points per game under coach Jeff Hornacek. Steven Freeman/NBAE via Getty Images

Jackson isn't the only member of the organization who has been upset over the triangle.

According to sources, some Knicks players have expressed their displeasure over the offense because they feel it doesn't suit their personnel, particularly point guard Derrick Rose, who has traditionally thrived when using pick-and-rolls.

During his time as Knicks president, Jackson has on occasion said he'd want his teams to run the triangle. But there have been times when he's said he just wants his team to have a system to operate out of half-court sets.

Hornacek has said that Jackson told him he'd have the freedom to tweak the offense how he saw fit, as long as he ran a system to space the floor in half-court settings.

"We talked a lot about it over the summer. Phil [Jackson's] given us the ability to run it any way we want, how we set it up," Hornacek said during training camp. "We talked what we feel is a good working way to run it with different options. We'll get to all those as the year progresses, but it should be pretty easy."

Jackson's teams in Chicago and Los Angeles, of course, won a combined 11 NBA titles while running the triangle offense. Last month, though, Jackson noted that today's players may not be suited to run that system.

"How do you teach a system that requires so many fundamental skills to players that really haven't been taught some of that basic stuff?" Jackson said on The Big Podcast with Shaquille O'Neal. "Footwork and passing and all those rudiment type of skills that are learned that have been, that have changed over a few years? It's a different game.

"I solicited Jeff because Jeff came from a system, Utah had a nice system, and he wanted to accelerate the game and play at the pace that's kind of, present ballplayers like to play at. And yet, find a way to try and incorporate [a system to space the floor in the half-court offense]. It's got to be done in a way in which it doesn't slow the game down but actually accentuates what they're trying to do."

I am so tired of this team. All we ever have is drama and disappointment. I just want to have a good team for once. I don't care who has to go for us to have a good team.

"Pride comes before the fall"......or at least the exodus to go co-run the Lakers with your beautiful partner.

Triangle Schmiangle...just friggin win already. Use whatever system enables our players' strengths and minimizes their weaknesses. And for the sake of all that is holy...PLAY DEFENSE BETTER!

We r putting up points and our defense is atrocious but let's focus on the triangle.

Phil should just coach the team. Enough already.

Sorry but league sorces? Not buying it. Let me guess, espn is broadcasting the knicks vs nets and needs to start some drama so that more them 3 people tune in for a game that no one wants to watch.

As far as high octane iffenses, like the knicks and other teams play, It is impossible to play 100% on defense all 48 minutes in the season since the conditioning isn't there yet. I think the. Ig difference in the win column is that this team hasn't been together long enough to have an identity or cohesion to lock it down at certain points of the game to make their runs. They don't need to lock it down for 48 minutes especialy after putting up dbl digit leads in the 1st Q, but they do need to be able to stop other teams from steadily climbing back into the game. Espn and its unamed league sorces, not buying it

Vmart wrote:Phil should just coach the team. Enough already.

He can't physically coach the team. What he needs to do is let the coach coach, or leave altogether. He landed us a franchise player, cleared the cap issues, and we have all of our draft picks. He has done a nice job here, and can now leave if he can't remain behind the scenes.

I haven't watched a full game yet, but I thought with Noah and KP, our lateral quickness will always be slower than the other teams, who usually have quicker players at those 3 spots (center, pf, sf). Then you add in Rose, who's trying to play injury free and you have 4 players on the court with slower lateral quickness to guard pick and rolls.

I always thought the team was better without Noah or KP in the starting lineup. If we want to succeed with Melo, I don't think those three should be on the court at the same time. Need to find a way to keep up the scoring, without having those three in the game (at the same time).

Rookie wrote:Sorry but league sorces? Not buying it. Let me guess, espn is broadcasting the knicks vs nets and needs to start some drama so that more them 3 people tune in for a game that no one wants to watch.

As far as high octane iffenses, like the knicks and other teams play, It is impossible to play 100% on defense all 48 minutes in the season since the conditioning isn't there yet. I think the. Ig difference in the win column is that this team hasn't been together long enough to have an identity or cohesion to lock it down at certain points of the game to make their runs. They don't need to lock it down for 48 minutes especialy after putting up dbl digit leads in the 1st Q, but they do need to be able to stop other teams from steadily climbing back into the game. Espn and its unamed league sorces, not buying it

Love it! Knicks have been running iffenses for years.

Our biggest weakness since we traded for Melo, was overall foot speed. The year we won the most games is when Melo was at PF.....Why?.....Because Melo has foot speed compared to PF/Centers. KP is playing PF with foot speed and lateral quickness of a center.

Knicks-Nets line up is not a good one.
"Sources" and "blogs" are not legit.
If Rose was gung ho to run the offense and 5 games in is "Not happy" then somebody is delusional. I would have thought Phil would have vetted this out before bringing him here, and I would think Rose would have thought this thru.
But that's if the "rumors" are true.
We need not consider every rumor. Rumor does not seem reasonable.

markvmc wrote:

Rookie wrote:Sorry but league sorces? Not buying it. Let me guess, espn is broadcasting the knicks vs nets and needs to start some drama so that more them 3 people tune in for a game that no one wants to watch.

As far as high octane iffenses, like the knicks and other teams play, It is impossible to play 100% on defense all 48 minutes in the season since the conditioning isn't there yet. I think the. Ig difference in the win column is that this team hasn't been together long enough to have an identity or cohesion to lock it down at certain points of the game to make their runs. They don't need to lock it down for 48 minutes especialy after putting up dbl digit leads in the 1st Q, but they do need to be able to stop other teams from steadily climbing back into the game. Espn and its unamed league sorces, not buying it

Love it! Knicks have been running iffenses for years.

Treyeangle eyefense = team eyedentity

hate to say it but if phil wants more triangle then he should get off your old ass and do it yourself. not leak it to the media that hes upset for the lack there of, that's a amateur move. I hope horny keeps his head up and just coaches the way he knows. hes doing a great job so far with a brand new team trying to build chemistry which is way more important then learning the triangle hands down.

I like that Phil has brought in high IQ players - but I don't like that he seems to want to run a system that no current NBA player is prepared to play & excel at.

It seems the fundamentals of the game are gone - and without those, no triangle.

Too much distraction- same as before, only then it was Dolan interfering.

I'm slowly giving up being a fan.

The old saying that you can't serve two masters applies to who coaches the Knicks IMO. One of the first things Phil said after taking the job was that he wants to see a system, not necessarily the Triangle. That was a lie. Even when looking outside the coaching tree to non-Triangle coaches, Phil's force feeding the Triangle to a coach who has shown (unlike his coaching tree) he already knows how to get the job done.

I havent liked all of Jeff's moves as coach so far (never do), but he deserves a chance to run the team the way he wants to. Let him sink or swim on his own ideas. If Phil can't let go of the Triangle, then he should be let go. this Triangle shit is really played out. Its a shame because Phil has done some really good things in NY as far as building for the future. Just has to get out of the way and let his efforts bear fruit.

$12 million a year so he can fade into the bushes? Right. This is what you get with the Zenmaster.

He wants the triangle, but he knows 'today's players' don't:
1) have the rudimentary skills to learn it
2) have the desire to slow the game down (Thank you bang bang bang Steph Curry, and NFL fullback wide receiver LeBron)

So please just play it in your half court sets, should that ever happen to occur.

So if we could just stop people from scoring...we would never have to worry about running the triangle.

Since phil has gotten here, there has not been a single player that has been receptive to the triangle, and they never will be, so either he goes, or the system gooes

jrodmc wrote:$12 million a year so he can fade into the bushes? Right. This is what you get with the Zenmaster.

He wants the triangle, but he knows 'today's players' don't:
1) have the rudimentary skills to learn it
2) have the desire to slow the game down (Thank you bang bang bang Steph Curry, and NFL fullback wide receiver LeBron)

So please just play it in your half court sets, should that ever happen to occur.

So if we could just stop people from scoring...we would never have to worry about running the triangle.

Quiet Eli. I dont want Phil to fade into the bushes. Would love for Phil to be a very visible presence, someone the players can go to for advice, or Phil can give advice to if he believes a player needs it. I believe Phil can have a positive influence on this team other than mandating what system they run, even when its clear that its not, nor will it ever be the best option. At that point you're hurting the team as much as you're helping it.

Derek Fisher abandoned Phil Jackson’s beloved system but Kurt Rambis is here to pick up the pieces of a broken triangle.

That was the message Friday from the interim head coach, who dropped plenty of hints about why Jackson decided to can Fisher and replace him with a triangle loyalist.

“We didn’t fully immerse ourselves into practicing (the triangle while Fisher was coach), developing it, learning how to work with it, going through the breakdown drills to execute it properly,” Rambis said. “We kind of skirted over things. So the real learning process of it didn’t have enough time to take place. We also didn’t allow the players the kind of time that it needs to allow them to get comfortable with it.”

Issues over Fisher’s triangle straying went as far back as Summer League of last year, according to sources, when Jackson took notice. Fisher then declared in training camp that too much emphasis on the system was a sabotaging factor during the 17-win disaster of last season, prompting him to adopt a different philosophy with more offensive freedom and fewer triangle lessons.

heard it all before, this isn't a ESPN bashing, some of you are in deep deep denial

Phil has completely undermined the coach. Six games in. What a joke.