Vmart wrote:Noah is out of shape. The guys frame can't carry his weight. He looks like he is 275-280. He needs to get back to 245 and get back to being better defensively. The main reason why he looks slow is he fat and out of shape.
I was thinking the same.
martin wrote:Vmart wrote:Noah is out of shape. The guys frame can't carry his weight. He looks like he is 275-280. He needs to get back to 245 and get back to being better defensively. The main reason why he looks slow is he fat and out of shape.
I was thinking the same.
oh wow 17 mill robbery
Bonn1997 wrote:Panos wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Panos wrote:We seem to always need to go out and get a new albatross contract as soon as we clear off the old one. I keep hopping I see the day where one of them has some pride and does the honourable thing and retires if they truly can't play anymore, but I guess greed rules the land.
I know I couldn't live with myself if I was reporting to work unable to perform and just collect a paycheck, esp if, like these guys, I'd already clocked millions. It's pretty disgraceful.
It's not up to the players to bail out the owners for their stupid decisions. If a player is working hard and has sacrificed his body and will live the rest of his life with back pain, he deserves the compensation he was guaranteed.
Sorry if I disagree. I'm not talking about a bail out. I'm talking about pride in holding up your end of the contract.
The player's end of the contract says that he will do the work required - go to practices and games, do certain media interviews, etc. It doesn't say that he will put up a certain # of points per game or win shares.
You just love to be contrary, just for the sake of it. You damn well know that players are expected to produce, even if it's the quantities are not specified in the contract. If they were only expected to show up, different players with differing levels of production wouldn't be paid max contacts vs. Vet minimums. Don't be pedantic.
Vmart wrote:Noah is out of shape. The guys frame can't carry his weight. He looks like he is 275-280. He needs to get back to 245 and get back to being better defensively. The main reason why he looks slow is he fat and out of shape.
I'd say he's put on too much muscle rather than fat
smackeddog wrote:Vmart wrote:Noah is out of shape. The guys frame can't carry his weight. He looks like he is 275-280. He needs to get back to 245 and get back to being better defensively. The main reason why he looks slow is he fat and out of shape.
I'd say he's put on too much muscle rather than fat
You really think he's put on weight since he was working out with Melo right after signing in July? I think he looks about the same now.
I think the issue is that the knee injuries sapped him of his lateral movement. Without his lateral quickness, he's nowhere near the defender he used to be. The foot issue may be contributing as well.
But I really don't think he's out of shape.
He's just slow on defense. Calderon slow.
Panos wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Panos wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Panos wrote:We seem to always need to go out and get a new albatross contract as soon as we clear off the old one. I keep hopping I see the day where one of them has some pride and does the honourable thing and retires if they truly can't play anymore, but I guess greed rules the land.
I know I couldn't live with myself if I was reporting to work unable to perform and just collect a paycheck, esp if, like these guys, I'd already clocked millions. It's pretty disgraceful.
It's not up to the players to bail out the owners for their stupid decisions. If a player is working hard and has sacrificed his body and will live the rest of his life with back pain, he deserves the compensation he was guaranteed.
Sorry if I disagree. I'm not talking about a bail out. I'm talking about pride in holding up your end of the contract.
The player's end of the contract says that he will do the work required - go to practices and games, do certain media interviews, etc. It doesn't say that he will put up a certain # of points per game or win shares.
You just love to be contrary, just for the sake of it. You damn well know that players are expected to produce, even if it's the quantities are not specified in the contract. If they were only expected to show up, different players with differing levels of production wouldn't be paid max contacts vs. Vet minimums. Don't be pedantic.
You switched the topic. There is a difference between fan expectations of a contract and legally upholding your end of the contract. I thought we were talking about the latter. Most fans probably have no understanding of the legal requirements of a contract or the physical punishments of playing in the NBA.
From an ethical (not legal) perspective, there's also a difference between working hard but being unable to produce and just being lazy.
Bonn1997 wrote:Panos wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Panos wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Panos wrote:We seem to always need to go out and get a new albatross contract as soon as we clear off the old one. I keep hopping I see the day where one of them has some pride and does the honourable thing and retires if they truly can't play anymore, but I guess greed rules the land.
I know I couldn't live with myself if I was reporting to work unable to perform and just collect a paycheck, esp if, like these guys, I'd already clocked millions. It's pretty disgraceful.
It's not up to the players to bail out the owners for their stupid decisions. If a player is working hard and has sacrificed his body and will live the rest of his life with back pain, he deserves the compensation he was guaranteed.
Sorry if I disagree. I'm not talking about a bail out. I'm talking about pride in holding up your end of the contract.
The player's end of the contract says that he will do the work required - go to practices and games, do certain media interviews, etc. It doesn't say that he will put up a certain # of points per game or win shares.
You just love to be contrary, just for the sake of it. You damn well know that players are expected to produce, even if it's the quantities are not specified in the contract. If they were only expected to show up, different players with differing levels of production wouldn't be paid max contacts vs. Vet minimums. Don't be pedantic.
You switched the topic. There is a difference between fan expectations of a contract and legally upholding your end of the contract. I thought we were talking about the latter. Most fans probably have no understanding of the legal requirements of a contract or the physical punishments of playing in the NBA.
From an ethical (not legal) perspective, there's also a difference between working hard but being unable to produce and just being lazy.
Where did I switch the topic? Where did I ever say anything about legality of anything?
Let me refresh your memory what I in fact said in my original post:
Panos wrote:We seem to always need to go out and get a new albatross contract as soon as we clear off the old one. I keep hopping I see the day where one of them has some pride and does the honourable thing and retires if they truly can't play anymore, but I guess greed rules the land.
I know I couldn't live with myself if I was reporting to work unable to perform and just collect a paycheck, esp if, like these guys, I'd already clocked millions. It's pretty disgraceful.
Yes, I'm talking about heart, ethics, pride, honor. Call it what you will.
Would be a good thing if Thibs had an interest in bringing Noah to Minny. He has the power now to make it happen. Hope Noah has a good game either way. I know Thibodeau doesnt want to do the Knicks any favors, but this might be beneficial to both sides. Bring Noah off the bench in Minny, let him help mentor the bigs, which is what Thibs is looking for, veteran help.
This is why I only wanted a 2 year deal. I still want him here despite his struggles but a 4 year deal with his injuries issues/age was not a good idea
Not a good start to the season. We all had doubts, so lets not get all prophetic about "what I would have given him", cuz that is way too easy. He had a miserable season last year.
Am I happy with this situation? Nope. Hopeful? Perhaps foolishly, but its not even December. If he is out of shape its not because he is lazy, its because he is not well.
He has foot problems and he has had "illness". We don't know what that means do we? Dude has a cold? Migranes? Flu? Cancer? WTF?
Panos wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Panos wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Panos wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Panos wrote:We seem to always need to go out and get a new albatross contract as soon as we clear off the old one. I keep hopping I see the day where one of them has some pride and does the honourable thing and retires if they truly can't play anymore, but I guess greed rules the land.
I know I couldn't live with myself if I was reporting to work unable to perform and just collect a paycheck, esp if, like these guys, I'd already clocked millions. It's pretty disgraceful.
It's not up to the players to bail out the owners for their stupid decisions. If a player is working hard and has sacrificed his body and will live the rest of his life with back pain, he deserves the compensation he was guaranteed.
Sorry if I disagree. I'm not talking about a bail out. I'm talking about pride in holding up your end of the contract.
The player's end of the contract says that he will do the work required - go to practices and games, do certain media interviews, etc. It doesn't say that he will put up a certain # of points per game or win shares.
You just love to be contrary, just for the sake of it. You damn well know that players are expected to produce, even if it's the quantities are not specified in the contract. If they were only expected to show up, different players with differing levels of production wouldn't be paid max contacts vs. Vet minimums. Don't be pedantic.
You switched the topic. There is a difference between fan expectations of a contract and legally upholding your end of the contract. I thought we were talking about the latter. Most fans probably have no understanding of the legal requirements of a contract or the physical punishments of playing in the NBA.
From an ethical (not legal) perspective, there's also a difference between working hard but being unable to produce and just being lazy.
Where did I switch the topic? Where did I ever say anything about legality of anything?
Let me refresh your memory what I in fact said in my original post:
Panos wrote:We seem to always need to go out and get a new albatross contract as soon as we clear off the old one. I keep hopping I see the day where one of them has some pride and does the honourable thing and retires if they truly can't play anymore, but I guess greed rules the land.
I know I couldn't live with myself if I was reporting to work unable to perform and just collect a paycheck, esp if, like these guys, I'd already clocked millions. It's pretty disgraceful.
Yes, I'm talking about heart, ethics, pride, honor. Call it what you will.
A contract is a legal agreement, not an ethical agreement. When you say holding up your end of the contract, you're talking about a legal issue. The contract doesn't say how many points a game the guy will average, how thin he'll be, how many hours of practice outside of the required hours he'll do, etc. If he wants to live in a gym and be in top shape, that's GREAT but that's going BEYOND the contract.
Can anybody tell me what is going on with him?
I get the foot thing, that is chronic with him.
But "Illness"?
What did he have? Bronchial virus? Flu? Gout?
Noah impresses Phil.
Phil doesn't like the 4 out game.
Noah great at passing in halfcourt.
Hornacek hired on June 2.
Phil possibly already committed to Noah verbally.
Start of free agency in July, he gets 72 mill for 4.
Hornacek wants team to run more.
Noah is not speedy...similar to Rolo.
Noah gets benched in a few games and team runs more and excels.
Jennings plays just as fast as Rose with much better defense.
Even with his dismal shooting, Jennings has several assists in limited mins per game.
Problem on Hornacek's hands...If he sends Noah to bench, that will slow bench down.
If he sends Rose to bench, Noah slows the starters down.
If he sends Noah and Rose to bench, they will probably revolt and a lot of Knicks fans will throw up at how much we paid our "bench players". Papers have field day.
Hornacek needs to have private meeting with Noah an Rose about their lack of defense and explain they'd have to go to bench if they cannot play defense night in and night out.
I think you are mistaken about Rose's defense..He has played very good defense the last 5 games..He has been our best defender the last 5 games minus Westbrook...
He held Kemba Walker in check one game, Damian Liliard one game, completely shut down Schroder who was later benched..
holfresh wrote:I think you are mistaken about Rose's defense..He has played very good defense the last 5 games..He has been our best defender the last 5 games minus Westbrook...
was that post jennings helping the knicks make a comeback? after he saw what the backup PG did in terms of playing with fire? and best defender... are you kidding me? have you EVER seen him play full court press...like ever? he's trying to conserve his energy so he can play more minutes...whether it's efficient mins or not.
Cartman718 wrote:holfresh wrote:I think you are mistaken about Rose's defense..He has played very good defense the last 5 games..He has been our best defender the last 5 games minus Westbrook...
was that post jennings helping the knicks make a comeback? after he saw what the backup PG did in terms of playing with fire? and best defender... are you kidding me? have you EVER seen him play full court press...like ever? he's trying to conserve his energy so he can play more minutes...whether it's efficient mins or not.
Well we have to look at these guys as humans..He didn't have a preseason and played poorly the first 10 games...But if that's what you see well that's what you see..But he has been our best defender last 5 games..He held Kemba Walker in check one game, Damian Liliard one game, completely shut down Schroder who was later benched..I have seen Jennings get shook on many occasions too but doesn't mean he is bad...
Also Jennings is not a fit with the first unit...The first unit doesn't need a guy to dribble and create for them...Melo doesn't need that, Maybe KP because he likes the step back three, but the starters offense is better with Rose because the threat of his penetration and offense, creates more space..I have never seem Melo with more one on one looks..Never as a Knick..
holfresh wrote:Also Jennings is not a fit with the first unit...The first unit doesn't need a guy to dribble and create for them...Melo doesn't need that, Maybe KP because he likes the step back three, but the starters offense is better with Rose because the threat of his penetration and offense, creates more space..I have never seem Melo with more one on one looks..Never as a Knick..
And I think the opposite. The first unit has too many ball stoppers (or guys that hold the ball a bit more than other cause they can/should be able to get their own): Melo, KP, Rose.
Inject Jennings into that lineup and maybe you take the ball out of Melo's hands a bit more?
martin wrote:holfresh wrote:Also Jennings is not a fit with the first unit...The first unit doesn't need a guy to dribble and create for them...Melo doesn't need that, Maybe KP because he likes the step back three, but the starters offense is better with Rose because the threat of his penetration and offense, creates more space..I have never seem Melo with more one on one looks..Never as a Knick..
And I think the opposite. The first unit has too many ball stoppers (or guys that hold the ball a bit more than other cause they can/should be able to get their own): Melo, KP, Rose.
Inject Jennings into that lineup and maybe you take the ball out of Melo's hands a bit more?
Yes, this is needed for the knicks future. They need to learn how to score consistently without ISO Melo. It's a confidence builder that must happen, and Jennings helps that development as the only pass first point guard on the team. In fact, Jennings shows you the weakness of this team.....A lack of pass first players, who can also be an offensive threat. Noah is a pass first player, but without the threat to score, his passes are harder to make, and usually lead to a turnover or a tough shot, since his man is not even guarding him.
martin wrote:holfresh wrote:Also Jennings is not a fit with the first unit...The first unit doesn't need a guy to dribble and create for them...Melo doesn't need that, Maybe KP because he likes the step back three, but the starters offense is better with Rose because the threat of his penetration and offense, creates more space..I have never seem Melo with more one on one looks..Never as a Knick..
And I think the opposite. The first unit has too many ball stoppers (or guys that hold the ball a bit more than other cause they can/should be able to get their own): Melo, KP, Rose.
Inject Jennings into that lineup and maybe you take the ball out of Melo's hands a bit more?
If you think that will win you more games but I don't...Melo's value to the team is in him drawing the attention he draws...It's frees up KP and opens the lane for Rose..Conversely the treat of Rose and KP has given Melo good one on one looks...You take Rose out then I'll double Melo or KP and dare Jennings to shoot...
