Knicks · Knicks have reached out to Boston and Clippers about Melo (page 5)

Knixkik wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:This is the trade the knicks should go for with the clips

Melo for rivers,perice,reddick

PP retiring and JJ are UFA after this year this opens up a lot of $ for the off season. We can go after a top FA this off season and if we tank we can get a top 5 pick.

KP,Noah
Willy,KOQ
Kuz,Lee,PP
JJ,rivers,holiday
Rose,Jennings,Rivers

It's a fresh start to truly build around KP next year and rivers is a solid young player

Next year rose, Jennings, JJ, PP all off the books

2018

KP,Noah
Willy,KOQ
Kuz,Lee
Rivers,holiday,baker
top 5 pick,baker

I don't think the Knicks are attracting any marquee free agents the way this has been handled. The marquee guys don't leave anyway. Look at what happened to the Nets. I don't know what this looks like but if Phil comes away with the proposed Clip package only Dolan should fire him on the spot.

Let's not forget this gives KP the rains and gives us the ability to run the offense through him not melo ... this turns KP into the super star we all know he is . He will make everyone around him better, he's a 7'3 monster no one can stop top FA will want to team up with KP more so then melo.

He is having a horrible run right now and it has been for awhile. His shooting, d, rebounding etc has been really bad. He also can't set a screen so moving him to the 5 doesn't work. He has the potential to be that guy eventually but I think he needs to be the second or third guy on a team at this point.

All young guys aren't ready to lead but they learn on the fly. We will be bad but that's ok. He's not playing well but it has been because of injury so we know he will turn it back around soon. Amazing how down people are on him. He was putting up big numbers before he got hurt.

Yes 100% agree, I think KP flourishes as the go to guy. He's looks depressed playing second/third fiddle to melo and rose sometimes only taking 11 shots!!! What the f u c k KP should be dominant taking at least 15 plus shots a game he should be our go to guy not melo. Some times he doesn't even take a shot till the second quarter. WHAT ! Sometimes we don't run a play for KP for most of the game WHAT ??! KP has the potential to be the greatest knick of all time. Like Tim Duncan was to the spurs KP should be for the knicks .. the fact that we have such a dominant talent as KP and we don't run the offense through him is a travesty. Melo is a star talent but by all means at best is a second/maybe third option on a real offense esp a offense that has a supior talent to him in KP and even rose has more talent then melo...melo ether has to except that he's not the main man anymore or be ok with being traded because melo as option number one dose not work it hasn't for years ...... this is KP's team melo get in line or get the f u c k outta New York .

fitzfarm wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:This is the trade the knicks should go for with the clips

Melo for rivers,perice,reddick

PP retiring and JJ are UFA after this year this opens up a lot of $ for the off season. We can go after a top FA this off season and if we tank we can get a top 5 pick.

KP,Noah
Willy,KOQ
Kuz,Lee,PP
JJ,rivers,holiday
Rose,Jennings,Rivers

It's a fresh start to truly build around KP next year and rivers is a solid young player

Next year rose, Jennings, JJ, PP all off the books

2018

KP,Noah
Willy,KOQ
Kuz,Lee
Rivers,holiday,baker
top 5 pick,baker

I don't think the Knicks are attracting any marquee free agents the way this has been handled. The marquee guys don't leave anyway. Look at what happened to the Nets. I don't know what this looks like but if Phil comes away with the proposed Clip package only Dolan should fire him on the spot.

Let's not forget this gives KP the rains and gives us the ability to run the offense through him not melo ... this turns KP into the super star we all know he is . He will make everyone around him better, he's a 7'3 monster no one can stop top FA will want to team up with KP more so then melo.

He is having a horrible run right now and it has been for awhile. His shooting, d, rebounding etc has been really bad. He also can't set a screen so moving him to the 5 doesn't work. He has the potential to be that guy eventually but I think he needs to be the second or third guy on a team at this point.

All young guys aren't ready to lead but they learn on the fly. We will be bad but that's ok. He's not playing well but it has been because of injury so we know he will turn it back around soon. Amazing how down people are on him. He was putting up big numbers before he got hurt.

Yes 100% agree, I think KP flourishes as the go to guy. He's looks depressed playing second/third fiddle to melo and rose sometimes only taking 11 shots!!! What the f u c k KP should be dominant taking at least 15 plus shots a game he should be our go to guy not melo. Some times he doesn't even take a shot till the second quarter. WHAT ! Sometimes we don't run a play for KP for most of the game WHAT ??! KP has the potential to be the greatest knick of all time. Like Tim Duncan was to the spurs KP should be for the knicks .. the fact that we have such a dominant talent as KP and we don't run the offense through him is a travesty. Melo is a star talent but by all means at best is a second/maybe third option on a real offense esp a offense that has a supior talent to him in KP and even rose has more talent then melo...melo ether has to except that he's not the main man anymore or be ok with being traded because melo as option number one dose not work it hasn't for years ...... this is KP's team melo get in line or get the f u c k outta New York .

It's inevitable at this point that youth will be served. Just ignore the negative Nancy complaints about KP.

So the deal might be:

Melo
Lee

for

Crawful
Rivers
Reddick (who is then shipped for a pick, because he has said in the past he doesn't like NY)

I'd be okay for this if we could then flip Crawful for second rounders. Still to go from the thought of Crowder, Smart or the Nets pick to this- yuck!

smackeddog wrote:Hmm, I think if the clips are shipping out Reddick, we will send them Lee,

So the deal might be:

Melo
Lee

for

Crawful
Rivers
Reddick (who is then shipped for a pick, because he has said in the past he doesn't like NY)

I'd be okay for this if we could then flip Crawful for second rounders. Still to go from the thought of Crowder, Smart or the Nets pick to this- yuck!

Honestly the only deal that makes sense from all 3 angles is the Boston deal.Boston needs another A level piece to really compete. NY needs youth and picks. Boston is also a big market for Melo that isnt too far from NY.

However one thing I have learned in the Phil era, if you hear about it from reputable sources and it doesn't happen within 6-12 hours, it isn't happening.

I think all Knicks are doing is engage what they can get for Melo. That's why they have not told him yet they are trading him. All talk now usual around deadline nothing close to being done.

nyknickzingis wrote:If all you can get is a role player and capspace for Melo, you should consider trading Rose instead. Melo will do better next year if he is separated from Rose and we get a PG that does not like to go 1 on 1, who likes to pass and defend and set up the offense. Deal Rose instead.

I think all Knicks are doing is engage what they can get for Melo. That's why they have not told him yet they are trading him. All talk now usual around deadline nothing close to being done.

if thats the case rubio for rose is ok then

CrushAlot wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Andrew wrote:

smackeddog wrote:I would be furious if we get Crawford - his contract is awful.

1 more year after this, and could be flipped to a playoff team.

Hoops hype has him at 2 more seasons after this one at $14mil per!

The 3rd year is non-guaranteed though so just next year at just over $14 mil

I still don't like it, plus what do the clips do for guards? Think that leaves them with no SG

like I said in the other thread, he's not trying to trade melo to make the Knicks better, he's trying to dump him for anything available. The only thing he cares about is matching the $

That's what makes Phil so bad, he wants to gut another team, then make his own roster clumsy and dumb with 5 SG, 5 centers and 2 half ass sf...just pure stupidity

Ummmmmmmmm huh?? What the heck are you talking about? He wants to trade Melo to get out of the final two years and $54 million owed to him after this year so he can properly build this team around KP. How can anyone see anything wrong with that? It's not working with Melo if you haven't noticed over the last 7 years and we now have a few good young players so why not start the rebuild asap? The time for Melo to be the #1 guy on a team has passed him by so he now needs to be the #2 or maybe even #3 guy on the team if you want to be a winning team and we can't get those kind of players to come to New York so he needs to go so we can start the rebuild the right way. Melo isn't gonna bring back the kind of return he would of say 3/4 years ago so get what you can for him and there's no big hurry to trade him right now so you have time to work teams against each other since we have almost a month until the trade deadline and if we can get two or even three teams that want him then maybe we can get more for him then he's really worth.

The Daily News is saying that the Knicks might send him to la for Rivers, Crawford and Reddick. That isn't rebuilding, getting younger or getting better. It certainly isn't getting younger and building around KP. Phil wants Melo gone for some reason. He wanted Tyson, JR and Shump gone. He wanted them gone more than he wanted to improve the team. I thought those guys needed to go as well but what Phil got for them sucked. A take of Rivers, Craw and Reddick for Melo would be an awful trade.

exactly my point..

The only trade partner that makes sense that I read about was Boston (Crowder/Smart/1st). Another one that may make sense is Chicago if they want to buy into a championship next year (Trade Butler for Melo now, try to sign Paul in the off seasonn have Wade, Paul, and Melo together).

Neither proposed trade you suggested makes sense. That BKN pick and Crowder far outweigh any value Melo brings you and Jimmy Butler is a far superior player to Melo at this point- a superstar in his own right.

I didnt propose the Crowder deal. It is what I heard on several outlets. The Butler deal, I only mentioned the principles.

I heard Crowder, Smart, Amir Johnson and a first round pick that wasn't bks.

That is a very good trade. The BKN pick gives Ainge a purpose to both win now without giving up the future. Very logical. Sure I want the BKN pick, but Melo is not 27 anymore. Crowder has an amazing contract and smart next to Rose might make a lot of sense. WE can trade KOQ with Amir.

To trade Noah will require giving up an asset. Clev can really use him but Lebron is killing his owner!

nyknickzingis wrote:If all you can get is a role player and capspace for Melo, you should consider trading Rose instead. Melo will do better next year if he is separated from Rose and we get a PG that does not like to go 1 on 1, who likes to pass and defend and set up the offense. Deal Rose instead.

I think all Knicks are doing is engage what they can get for Melo. That's why they have not told him yet they are trading him. All talk now usual around deadline nothing close to being done.

I don't cap space for Melo- but you can probably trade him in the off season.

I do agree that Rose should probably go by the deadline. There is no sane reason for this franchise to keep rose on any kind of deal moving forward.

dacash wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:If all you can get is a role player and capspace for Melo, you should consider trading Rose instead. Melo will do better next year if he is separated from Rose and we get a PG that does not like to go 1 on 1, who likes to pass and defend and set up the offense. Deal Rose instead.

I think all Knicks are doing is engage what they can get for Melo. That's why they have not told him yet they are trading him. All talk now usual around deadline nothing close to being done.

if thats the case rubio for rose is ok then

I think Melo would benefit from a pass first PG too. He did with Kidd and Billups. The issue is he then becomes the sole ball stopper again and we have seen that does not work either.

NY has been there done that.

Deal Rose for Rubio and then try to get Griffin for Melo.

KP
Griffin
Kuz
Rubio
Lee

Better D, scoring intact and better ball movement.

Does either team make the deal? I doubt it.

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:

dacash wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:If all you can get is a role player and capspace for Melo, you should consider trading Rose instead. Melo will do better next year if he is separated from Rose and we get a PG that does not like to go 1 on 1, who likes to pass and defend and set up the offense. Deal Rose instead.

I think all Knicks are doing is engage what they can get for Melo. That's why they have not told him yet they are trading him. All talk now usual around deadline nothing close to being done.

if thats the case rubio for rose is ok then

I think Melo would benefit from a pass first PG too. He did with Kidd and Billups. The issue is he then becomes the sole ball stopper again and we have seen that does not work either.

NY has been there done that.

Deal Rose for Rubio and then try to get Griffin for Melo.

KP
Griffin
Kuz
Rubio
Lee

Better D, scoring intact and better ball movement.

Does either team make the deal? I doubt it.

theres already the "report" that says phil doesnt even want to break up the clips big three sooo griff aint coming here

The key was "MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL". Knicks do have leverage because I don't think Phil has to make a move. He can bench Melo and trade him in the offseason. Melo is climbing the all times scoring list and adding to his HOF resume by doing so. He is not asking for a trade, but if Phil wants to go youthier, he might think of benching then trade in the off season. This is not a war, this is just business. I don't think it has nearly the emotional capacity that some of you think it has.

^
Above players are either rookies/2nd Year players or on 4 year contracts. Let's take away Rose and Jennings since they are free agents soon. Looking at our roster the best trade would be Melo for a younger point guard. Clippers don't have that nor does Cleveland.

Boston does have the talent we need. Marcus Smart. Jaylen Brown. One of those guys could really help. Chicago with Rondo and MCW as well.

Talent wise a long term deal for Melo is best served if we are getting a Rose replacement. We need a leader a young point guard we can develop alongside KP.

Chicago and Boston are better trade partners than Cleveland or Clippers for us.

Get a young point guard or vet PG who is pass first and in his athletic prime. You kill two birds with one stone there. You trade Melo for a core starter you need to lead the team. You also open up capspace as you can let Rose walk at seasons end (or deal him for a few 2nd round picks, expiring contracts)

Crowder, Bradley, Johnson for Melo, KOQ and Holiday makes sense from our side, not sure it does on their side. Getting guys on smart contracts like that we might be inclined to include a pick.

We need to get younger in the backcourt, then start flipping pieces, shut down KP to 20 minutes a night, get Willy some time and look to move Jennnings. Courtney Lee could easily be moved to the clippers for reddick and a draft selection since his contract would be below market and they could reroute him elsewhere for a late pick or another expiring.

Having - KP, Willy, Crowder, Bradley would be a nice start. Get aggressive in free agency, if not be patient for another season.

fwk00 wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Phil is the one that wants him to go. Phil is the one that gave him the ntc and the trade kicker. But if Phil moves him for a package like it would be horrible. Reports are that Phil wants to get younger and build around KP. He would be adding a player four years older than Melo and another the exact same age. Also, the Clippers don't have picks to trade. There is no reason to do that deal for the Knicks.

You are operating under the belief that the Knicks have any trade leverage at all besides the actual trade deadline itself.

If you want to believe that, have at it. It's one way to see it ( Unlike many others on this site, I'm open to the idea that others have their view and its OK, even if it's different)

I don't see it that way.

This is not about if the Clippers have what the Knicks WANT in a trade. If Melo will only waive his NTC for the Clippers, and he's not going to a gutted team, then the best the Knicks can do is salvage "addition by subtraction" and hope the cap hits are short lived for them to get Melo off the roster.

When your list of teams reduces to 1, it changes everything. I don't think people see this here because Dolan insanely bid against himself when Melo wanted to come here from Denver, when the Knicks really had all the leverage ( it's NY or nowhere or lose Melo for nothing in FA for Denver)

The Knicks will not get Blake Griffin in a trade for Melo. It will not happen. Why? When the Clippers would have all the trade leverage? Now the Clippers might trade Griffin AFTER getting Melo to another team for other assets, but why would they give up the younger superstar player?

The Clippers need WING PLAYERS. Melo is a PF. Griffin is a PF. Griffin cannot play center, he has the athleticism ( he's off the charts) to defend the rim, but none of the instincts or timing or saavy to do it. You are also asking the Clippers to trade Doc Rivers son in this deal. Would they? ( People are irrational about their children, consider Dave Duncan, one of the best pitching coaches in baseball history, maybe of all time, went insane over how the Cardinals treated or did not treat his son in the organizational minors. You'll see superstar player have their "brothers" in the same team, just to keep that superstar happy. I think Bryce Harper or Stephen Strasburg has a brother in the same organization, you think it's because the kid is a massive talent like his brother?)

This is NOT about what the Knicks want, this is about what they can reasonably get given the circumstances. The circumstances IMHO dictate not much at all.

But if people want to see it different, that's up to them.

Yeah, I'm not buying that trade scenario at all. First, Rivers is terrible so the idea that he's a cornerstone of the deal is IMO insane. He adds zero to the Knicks. Crawford is fine but again not a fit here.

If the Clips and NY are in talks then a third team will have to be involved. And I agree, the Knicks can easily get short-changed in terms of talent but sometimes addition by subtraction is enough.

I understand that you guys don't want Crawford or Rivers but either one can fit just fine with KP especially Crawford. It's now coming out that none of Clev, Boston or the Clips are interested in Melo but the Clips are interested in C.Lee. Nobody wants Melo, at least the teams that we think he'd be interested in aren't interested in him. This of course could be just more writer talk that don't know what the hell they're talking about as usual.

newyorker4ever wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Phil is the one that wants him to go. Phil is the one that gave him the ntc and the trade kicker. But if Phil moves him for a package like it would be horrible. Reports are that Phil wants to get younger and build around KP. He would be adding a player four years older than Melo and another the exact same age. Also, the Clippers don't have picks to trade. There is no reason to do that deal for the Knicks.

You are operating under the belief that the Knicks have any trade leverage at all besides the actual trade deadline itself.

If you want to believe that, have at it. It's one way to see it ( Unlike many others on this site, I'm open to the idea that others have their view and its OK, even if it's different)

I don't see it that way.

This is not about if the Clippers have what the Knicks WANT in a trade. If Melo will only waive his NTC for the Clippers, and he's not going to a gutted team, then the best the Knicks can do is salvage "addition by subtraction" and hope the cap hits are short lived for them to get Melo off the roster.

When your list of teams reduces to 1, it changes everything. I don't think people see this here because Dolan insanely bid against himself when Melo wanted to come here from Denver, when the Knicks really had all the leverage ( it's NY or nowhere or lose Melo for nothing in FA for Denver)

The Knicks will not get Blake Griffin in a trade for Melo. It will not happen. Why? When the Clippers would have all the trade leverage? Now the Clippers might trade Griffin AFTER getting Melo to another team for other assets, but why would they give up the younger superstar player?

The Clippers need WING PLAYERS. Melo is a PF. Griffin is a PF. Griffin cannot play center, he has the athleticism ( he's off the charts) to defend the rim, but none of the instincts or timing or saavy to do it. You are also asking the Clippers to trade Doc Rivers son in this deal. Would they? ( People are irrational about their children, consider Dave Duncan, one of the best pitching coaches in baseball history, maybe of all time, went insane over how the Cardinals treated or did not treat his son in the organizational minors. You'll see superstar player have their "brothers" in the same team, just to keep that superstar happy. I think Bryce Harper or Stephen Strasburg has a brother in the same organization, you think it's because the kid is a massive talent like his brother?)

This is NOT about what the Knicks want, this is about what they can reasonably get given the circumstances. The circumstances IMHO dictate not much at all.

But if people want to see it different, that's up to them.

Yeah, I'm not buying that trade scenario at all. First, Rivers is terrible so the idea that he's a cornerstone of the deal is IMO insane. He adds zero to the Knicks. Crawford is fine but again not a fit here.

If the Clips and NY are in talks then a third team will have to be involved. And I agree, the Knicks can easily get short-changed in terms of talent but sometimes addition by subtraction is enough.

I understand that you guys don't want Crawford or Rivers but either one can fit just fine with KP especially Crawford. It's now coming out that none of Clev, Boston or the Clips are interested in Melo but the Clips are interested in C.Lee. Nobody wants Melo, at least the teams that we think he'd be interested in aren't interested in him. This of course could be just more writer talk that don't know what the hell they're talking about as usual.

newyorker4ever wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Phil is the one that wants him to go. Phil is the one that gave him the ntc and the trade kicker. But if Phil moves him for a package like it would be horrible. Reports are that Phil wants to get younger and build around KP. He would be adding a player four years older than Melo and another the exact same age. Also, the Clippers don't have picks to trade. There is no reason to do that deal for the Knicks.

You are operating under the belief that the Knicks have any trade leverage at all besides the actual trade deadline itself.

If you want to believe that, have at it. It's one way to see it ( Unlike many others on this site, I'm open to the idea that others have their view and its OK, even if it's different)

I don't see it that way.

This is not about if the Clippers have what the Knicks WANT in a trade. If Melo will only waive his NTC for the Clippers, and he's not going to a gutted team, then the best the Knicks can do is salvage "addition by subtraction" and hope the cap hits are short lived for them to get Melo off the roster.

When your list of teams reduces to 1, it changes everything. I don't think people see this here because Dolan insanely bid against himself when Melo wanted to come here from Denver, when the Knicks really had all the leverage ( it's NY or nowhere or lose Melo for nothing in FA for Denver)

The Knicks will not get Blake Griffin in a trade for Melo. It will not happen. Why? When the Clippers would have all the trade leverage? Now the Clippers might trade Griffin AFTER getting Melo to another team for other assets, but why would they give up the younger superstar player?

The Clippers need WING PLAYERS. Melo is a PF. Griffin is a PF. Griffin cannot play center, he has the athleticism ( he's off the charts) to defend the rim, but none of the instincts or timing or saavy to do it. You are also asking the Clippers to trade Doc Rivers son in this deal. Would they? ( People are irrational about their children, consider Dave Duncan, one of the best pitching coaches in baseball history, maybe of all time, went insane over how the Cardinals treated or did not treat his son in the organizational minors. You'll see superstar player have their "brothers" in the same team, just to keep that superstar happy. I think Bryce Harper or Stephen Strasburg has a brother in the same organization, you think it's because the kid is a massive talent like his brother?)

This is NOT about what the Knicks want, this is about what they can reasonably get given the circumstances. The circumstances IMHO dictate not much at all.

But if people want to see it different, that's up to them.

Yeah, I'm not buying that trade scenario at all. First, Rivers is terrible so the idea that he's a cornerstone of the deal is IMO insane. He adds zero to the Knicks. Crawford is fine but again not a fit here.

If the Clips and NY are in talks then a third team will have to be involved. And I agree, the Knicks can easily get short-changed in terms of talent but sometimes addition by subtraction is enough.

I understand that you guys don't want Crawford or Rivers but either one can fit just fine with KP especially Crawford. It's now coming out that none of Clev, Boston or the Clips are interested in Melo but the Clips are interested in C.Lee. Nobody wants Melo, at least the teams that we think he'd be interested in aren't interested in him. This of course could be just more writer talk that don't know what the hell they're talking about as usual.

nyknickzingis wrote:A deal I like is Rondo and MCW for Melo and Jennings. Melo goes to play with Wade and Butler. Plays the 4 his best spot. Bulls definitely make the playoffs. He wanted to go to Chicago in 2014. Chicago would neeed to add more contracts than Rondo and MCW.

This could be the worse trade i've seen so far and might be the worse i've ever seen. I'd take Reddick, Crawford and Rivers before i'd take Rondo and MCW.