Knicks · Hardaway Jr just pulled a Jordan on the Rockets... (page 4)
holfresh wrote:I thought you didnt like bringing up the Isiah?crzymdups wrote:holfresh wrote:crzymdups wrote:holfresh wrote:crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:shooting 42% and 32% from 3 as a starter. He's had a great Feb.fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:Tim had 25 last night, hit some key buckets(threes) down the stretch for the Hawks to get them back in the game..Two games prior he put up 28...And playing better defense too but CJ McCollum did blow by him a few times...He ran the point at times with Schroder on the bench too...25 pts 7 reb 4 asst..Everything about THjr screams utterly average NBA player. More Phil hate.
This is just turning into another stupid trade...
And you Holiday folks, Tim is will be 25 this year and Holiday will be 28...They traded Korver in January and started starting Tim.
In February - He's averaging 20ppg on 50% shooting, 40% from 3pt, with 4rebs and 3ast.
He's in his third year in the league.
Guards get hot. Remember Langston shot 50% from 3 for the first month last year? Atl is 4-3 in Feb.What is the expectation? That no player that is traded can be any good? He was traded for Grant, who I liked a lot. This is hindsight Phil hate. Nothing more. Its old. Maybe I will just troll every holfresh trade with all the good players Isiah lost us? This is old.
Have you watched Atlanta lately? He's a different player since the calendar turned to 2017.
He is a different player with patience and confidence..They haven't watched...
Yep. The thing that still mystifies me is that if we were committed to going Triangle, Hardaway makes so much more sense as a Triangle piece than Jerian Grant.
It does make me wonder if there was something to those rumors about Fisher and Hardaway's girlfriend. Hardaway was traded before the Matt Barnes incident happened... could've been something the Garden was just trying to hush.
Anyway, it's neither here nor there, but he's a quality piece that could be one of three good young starters on the team in KP, Willy, and Hardaway. Add a young PG to that mix this year and all the sudden we have a good young group.
It hurts because of his youth..But in Phil's defense, I didn't see him developing his handle and patience...Truthfully Atlanta has a wonderful player development program. Coach Budenholzer is from the San Antonio / Pop program and it shows.
Look what they did with DeMarre Carroll and Kent Bazemore. Bazemore was essentially Justin Holiday when they got him and they've worked with him to turn him into a guy capable of getting 20pts and locking down the opposing wing. Holiday has that potential... but I sort of doubt it gets developed here.
Same with Hardaway - he was oozing potential, but sort of stalled in his second year and picked up bad habits. Atlanta had to break him down and build him up again and they've seemingly done a great job.
I think the real issue we often have is player development. I don't know how you install that, but I was hoping Phil did better with it. They've done a good job with Willy and KP, but even KP keeps making the same mistakes that don't seem to be corrected.
Well when you are changing coaches, players and style of play every 6 months it will have an effect on young players and on the team..But Atalanta did a great job rebuilding him..He did show flashes after we traded JR and Shump with a few good games down the stretch..I was surprised at the trade...
fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:I thought you didnt like bringing up the Isiah?crzymdups wrote:holfresh wrote:crzymdups wrote:holfresh wrote:crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:shooting 42% and 32% from 3 as a starter. He's had a great Feb.fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:Tim had 25 last night, hit some key buckets(threes) down the stretch for the Hawks to get them back in the game..Two games prior he put up 28...And playing better defense too but CJ McCollum did blow by him a few times...He ran the point at times with Schroder on the bench too...25 pts 7 reb 4 asst..Everything about THjr screams utterly average NBA player. More Phil hate.
This is just turning into another stupid trade...
And you Holiday folks, Tim is will be 25 this year and Holiday will be 28...They traded Korver in January and started starting Tim.
In February - He's averaging 20ppg on 50% shooting, 40% from 3pt, with 4rebs and 3ast.
He's in his third year in the league.
Guards get hot. Remember Langston shot 50% from 3 for the first month last year? Atl is 4-3 in Feb.What is the expectation? That no player that is traded can be any good? He was traded for Grant, who I liked a lot. This is hindsight Phil hate. Nothing more. Its old. Maybe I will just troll every holfresh trade with all the good players Isiah lost us? This is old.
Have you watched Atlanta lately? He's a different player since the calendar turned to 2017.
He is a different player with patience and confidence..They haven't watched...
Yep. The thing that still mystifies me is that if we were committed to going Triangle, Hardaway makes so much more sense as a Triangle piece than Jerian Grant.
It does make me wonder if there was something to those rumors about Fisher and Hardaway's girlfriend. Hardaway was traded before the Matt Barnes incident happened... could've been something the Garden was just trying to hush.
Anyway, it's neither here nor there, but he's a quality piece that could be one of three good young starters on the team in KP, Willy, and Hardaway. Add a young PG to that mix this year and all the sudden we have a good young group.
It hurts because of his youth..But in Phil's defense, I didn't see him developing his handle and patience...Truthfully Atlanta has a wonderful player development program. Coach Budenholzer is from the San Antonio / Pop program and it shows.
Look what they did with DeMarre Carroll and Kent Bazemore. Bazemore was essentially Justin Holiday when they got him and they've worked with him to turn him into a guy capable of getting 20pts and locking down the opposing wing. Holiday has that potential... but I sort of doubt it gets developed here.
Same with Hardaway - he was oozing potential, but sort of stalled in his second year and picked up bad habits. Atlanta had to break him down and build him up again and they've seemingly done a great job.
I think the real issue we often have is player development. I don't know how you install that, but I was hoping Phil did better with it. They've done a good job with Willy and KP, but even KP keeps making the same mistakes that don't seem to be corrected.
Well when you are changing coaches, players and style of play every 6 months it will have an effect on young players and on the team..But Atalanta did a great job rebuilding him..He did show flashes after we traded JR and Shump with a few good games down the stretch..I was surprised at the trade...
So you are signing off on Phil's attempt to duplicate Isiah's effort??..Cause the results are strikingly similar...
fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:I thought you didnt like bringing up the Isiah?crzymdups wrote:holfresh wrote:crzymdups wrote:holfresh wrote:crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:shooting 42% and 32% from 3 as a starter. He's had a great Feb.fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:Tim had 25 last night, hit some key buckets(threes) down the stretch for the Hawks to get them back in the game..Two games prior he put up 28...And playing better defense too but CJ McCollum did blow by him a few times...He ran the point at times with Schroder on the bench too...25 pts 7 reb 4 asst..Everything about THjr screams utterly average NBA player. More Phil hate.
This is just turning into another stupid trade...
And you Holiday folks, Tim is will be 25 this year and Holiday will be 28...They traded Korver in January and started starting Tim.
In February - He's averaging 20ppg on 50% shooting, 40% from 3pt, with 4rebs and 3ast.
He's in his third year in the league.
Guards get hot. Remember Langston shot 50% from 3 for the first month last year? Atl is 4-3 in Feb.What is the expectation? That no player that is traded can be any good? He was traded for Grant, who I liked a lot. This is hindsight Phil hate. Nothing more. Its old. Maybe I will just troll every holfresh trade with all the good players Isiah lost us? This is old.
Have you watched Atlanta lately? He's a different player since the calendar turned to 2017.
He is a different player with patience and confidence..They haven't watched...
Yep. The thing that still mystifies me is that if we were committed to going Triangle, Hardaway makes so much more sense as a Triangle piece than Jerian Grant.
It does make me wonder if there was something to those rumors about Fisher and Hardaway's girlfriend. Hardaway was traded before the Matt Barnes incident happened... could've been something the Garden was just trying to hush.
Anyway, it's neither here nor there, but he's a quality piece that could be one of three good young starters on the team in KP, Willy, and Hardaway. Add a young PG to that mix this year and all the sudden we have a good young group.
It hurts because of his youth..But in Phil's defense, I didn't see him developing his handle and patience...Truthfully Atlanta has a wonderful player development program. Coach Budenholzer is from the San Antonio / Pop program and it shows.
Look what they did with DeMarre Carroll and Kent Bazemore. Bazemore was essentially Justin Holiday when they got him and they've worked with him to turn him into a guy capable of getting 20pts and locking down the opposing wing. Holiday has that potential... but I sort of doubt it gets developed here.
Same with Hardaway - he was oozing potential, but sort of stalled in his second year and picked up bad habits. Atlanta had to break him down and build him up again and they've seemingly done a great job.
I think the real issue we often have is player development. I don't know how you install that, but I was hoping Phil did better with it. They've done a good job with Willy and KP, but even KP keeps making the same mistakes that don't seem to be corrected.
Well when you are changing coaches, players and style of play every 6 months it will have an effect on young players and on the team..But Atalanta did a great job rebuilding him..He did show flashes after we traded JR and Shump with a few good games down the stretch..I was surprised at the trade...
Are you saying Phil has been consistent in terms of coaching staff and roster? Because I think his biggest failure has been perpetual turnover and reboots and restarts and no consistency or continuity. I thought we'd be getting a system and a culture of stability from Phil. To me that has been his biggest failure.
holfresh wrote:Then why do you hate Phil and covet Isiah?fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:I thought you didnt like bringing up the Isiah?crzymdups wrote:holfresh wrote:crzymdups wrote:holfresh wrote:crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:shooting 42% and 32% from 3 as a starter. He's had a great Feb.fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:Tim had 25 last night, hit some key buckets(threes) down the stretch for the Hawks to get them back in the game..Two games prior he put up 28...And playing better defense too but CJ McCollum did blow by him a few times...He ran the point at times with Schroder on the bench too...25 pts 7 reb 4 asst..Everything about THjr screams utterly average NBA player. More Phil hate.
This is just turning into another stupid trade...
And you Holiday folks, Tim is will be 25 this year and Holiday will be 28...They traded Korver in January and started starting Tim.
In February - He's averaging 20ppg on 50% shooting, 40% from 3pt, with 4rebs and 3ast.
He's in his third year in the league.
Guards get hot. Remember Langston shot 50% from 3 for the first month last year? Atl is 4-3 in Feb.What is the expectation? That no player that is traded can be any good? He was traded for Grant, who I liked a lot. This is hindsight Phil hate. Nothing more. Its old. Maybe I will just troll every holfresh trade with all the good players Isiah lost us? This is old.
Have you watched Atlanta lately? He's a different player since the calendar turned to 2017.
He is a different player with patience and confidence..They haven't watched...
Yep. The thing that still mystifies me is that if we were committed to going Triangle, Hardaway makes so much more sense as a Triangle piece than Jerian Grant.
It does make me wonder if there was something to those rumors about Fisher and Hardaway's girlfriend. Hardaway was traded before the Matt Barnes incident happened... could've been something the Garden was just trying to hush.
Anyway, it's neither here nor there, but he's a quality piece that could be one of three good young starters on the team in KP, Willy, and Hardaway. Add a young PG to that mix this year and all the sudden we have a good young group.
It hurts because of his youth..But in Phil's defense, I didn't see him developing his handle and patience...Truthfully Atlanta has a wonderful player development program. Coach Budenholzer is from the San Antonio / Pop program and it shows.
Look what they did with DeMarre Carroll and Kent Bazemore. Bazemore was essentially Justin Holiday when they got him and they've worked with him to turn him into a guy capable of getting 20pts and locking down the opposing wing. Holiday has that potential... but I sort of doubt it gets developed here.
Same with Hardaway - he was oozing potential, but sort of stalled in his second year and picked up bad habits. Atlanta had to break him down and build him up again and they've seemingly done a great job.
I think the real issue we often have is player development. I don't know how you install that, but I was hoping Phil did better with it. They've done a good job with Willy and KP, but even KP keeps making the same mistakes that don't seem to be corrected.
Well when you are changing coaches, players and style of play every 6 months it will have an effect on young players and on the team..But Atalanta did a great job rebuilding him..He did show flashes after we traded JR and Shump with a few good games down the stretch..I was surprised at the trade...
So you are signing off on Phil's attempt to duplicate Isiah's effort??..Cause the results are strikingly similar...
But no... they are not alike at all. Isiah would have trade KP, Willy, and 3 unprotected first rounders for Boogie Cousins (this CANT fail). When Boogie flops his physical Isiah says "lets do it anyway!"
But all kidding aside we can review after 5 years. Phil hasnt been impressive here at all. He's looked like a guy figuring out how to do a job and has certainly floundered at several turns. However he's brought in some young guys and for a Knicks GM this is unprecedented:
Knick first round draft picks:
2017 - Own
2018 - Own
2019 - Own
2020 - Own
2021 - Own
2022 - Own
2023 - Own
2024 - Own
http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/f...
fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:Then why do you hate Phil and covet Isiah?fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:I thought you didnt like bringing up the Isiah?crzymdups wrote:holfresh wrote:crzymdups wrote:holfresh wrote:crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:shooting 42% and 32% from 3 as a starter. He's had a great Feb.fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:Tim had 25 last night, hit some key buckets(threes) down the stretch for the Hawks to get them back in the game..Two games prior he put up 28...And playing better defense too but CJ McCollum did blow by him a few times...He ran the point at times with Schroder on the bench too...25 pts 7 reb 4 asst..Everything about THjr screams utterly average NBA player. More Phil hate.
This is just turning into another stupid trade...
And you Holiday folks, Tim is will be 25 this year and Holiday will be 28...They traded Korver in January and started starting Tim.
In February - He's averaging 20ppg on 50% shooting, 40% from 3pt, with 4rebs and 3ast.
He's in his third year in the league.
Guards get hot. Remember Langston shot 50% from 3 for the first month last year? Atl is 4-3 in Feb.What is the expectation? That no player that is traded can be any good? He was traded for Grant, who I liked a lot. This is hindsight Phil hate. Nothing more. Its old. Maybe I will just troll every holfresh trade with all the good players Isiah lost us? This is old.
Have you watched Atlanta lately? He's a different player since the calendar turned to 2017.
He is a different player with patience and confidence..They haven't watched...
Yep. The thing that still mystifies me is that if we were committed to going Triangle, Hardaway makes so much more sense as a Triangle piece than Jerian Grant.
It does make me wonder if there was something to those rumors about Fisher and Hardaway's girlfriend. Hardaway was traded before the Matt Barnes incident happened... could've been something the Garden was just trying to hush.
Anyway, it's neither here nor there, but he's a quality piece that could be one of three good young starters on the team in KP, Willy, and Hardaway. Add a young PG to that mix this year and all the sudden we have a good young group.
It hurts because of his youth..But in Phil's defense, I didn't see him developing his handle and patience...Truthfully Atlanta has a wonderful player development program. Coach Budenholzer is from the San Antonio / Pop program and it shows.
Look what they did with DeMarre Carroll and Kent Bazemore. Bazemore was essentially Justin Holiday when they got him and they've worked with him to turn him into a guy capable of getting 20pts and locking down the opposing wing. Holiday has that potential... but I sort of doubt it gets developed here.
Same with Hardaway - he was oozing potential, but sort of stalled in his second year and picked up bad habits. Atlanta had to break him down and build him up again and they've seemingly done a great job.
I think the real issue we often have is player development. I don't know how you install that, but I was hoping Phil did better with it. They've done a good job with Willy and KP, but even KP keeps making the same mistakes that don't seem to be corrected.
Well when you are changing coaches, players and style of play every 6 months it will have an effect on young players and on the team..But Atalanta did a great job rebuilding him..He did show flashes after we traded JR and Shump with a few good games down the stretch..I was surprised at the trade...
So you are signing off on Phil's attempt to duplicate Isiah's effort??..Cause the results are strikingly similar...
But no... they are not alike at all. Isiah would have trade KP, Willy, and 3 unprotected first rounders for Boogie Cousins (this CANT fail). When Boogie flops his physical Isiah says "lets do it anyway!"
But all kidding aside we can review after 5 years. Phil hasnt been impressive here at all. He's looked like a guy figuring out how to do a job and has certainly floundered at several turns. However he's brought in some young guys and for a Knicks GM this is unprecedented:
Knick first round draft picks:
2017 - Own
2018 - Own
2019 - Own
2020 - Own
2021 - Own
2022 - Own
2023 - Own
2024 - Own
http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/f...
Hahaha..I just looked up Isiah trades...Wow..Just Wow...Insane
But in all honesty it was a different time and different mandate...Isiah should have been given the mandate to rebuild because he knew talent...Isiah's mandate was to make trades to win now with a roster with zero talent...Phil has the value of hindsight and the ability to do what he wants...He just can't see beyond the triangle and no clue how to assemble a team...
crzymdups wrote:I think he thought he could do that AND keep Melo here. I think the Melo tweets were his frustration and admitting he was wrong. You are a 100% correct he failed in that. However those things can still happen and a good start would be this coach, no high paid Im the face of the franchise players to cater to and a young talented roster. If it took him 3 years to figure that out fine. The fact that Dolan said they will honor his deal and stay out of it gives me hope. Phil's an arrogant prick but I DO believe he wants to win and accomplish the things you say, and NOT some "Im only here to prove the triangle" type agenda. Thats about the most support I can give Phil based on what he's done herefishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:I thought you didnt like bringing up the Isiah?crzymdups wrote:holfresh wrote:crzymdups wrote:holfresh wrote:crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:shooting 42% and 32% from 3 as a starter. He's had a great Feb.fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:Tim had 25 last night, hit some key buckets(threes) down the stretch for the Hawks to get them back in the game..Two games prior he put up 28...And playing better defense too but CJ McCollum did blow by him a few times...He ran the point at times with Schroder on the bench too...25 pts 7 reb 4 asst..Everything about THjr screams utterly average NBA player. More Phil hate.
This is just turning into another stupid trade...
And you Holiday folks, Tim is will be 25 this year and Holiday will be 28...They traded Korver in January and started starting Tim.
In February - He's averaging 20ppg on 50% shooting, 40% from 3pt, with 4rebs and 3ast.
He's in his third year in the league.
Guards get hot. Remember Langston shot 50% from 3 for the first month last year? Atl is 4-3 in Feb.What is the expectation? That no player that is traded can be any good? He was traded for Grant, who I liked a lot. This is hindsight Phil hate. Nothing more. Its old. Maybe I will just troll every holfresh trade with all the good players Isiah lost us? This is old.
Have you watched Atlanta lately? He's a different player since the calendar turned to 2017.
He is a different player with patience and confidence..They haven't watched...
Yep. The thing that still mystifies me is that if we were committed to going Triangle, Hardaway makes so much more sense as a Triangle piece than Jerian Grant.
It does make me wonder if there was something to those rumors about Fisher and Hardaway's girlfriend. Hardaway was traded before the Matt Barnes incident happened... could've been something the Garden was just trying to hush.
Anyway, it's neither here nor there, but he's a quality piece that could be one of three good young starters on the team in KP, Willy, and Hardaway. Add a young PG to that mix this year and all the sudden we have a good young group.
It hurts because of his youth..But in Phil's defense, I didn't see him developing his handle and patience...Truthfully Atlanta has a wonderful player development program. Coach Budenholzer is from the San Antonio / Pop program and it shows.
Look what they did with DeMarre Carroll and Kent Bazemore. Bazemore was essentially Justin Holiday when they got him and they've worked with him to turn him into a guy capable of getting 20pts and locking down the opposing wing. Holiday has that potential... but I sort of doubt it gets developed here.
Same with Hardaway - he was oozing potential, but sort of stalled in his second year and picked up bad habits. Atlanta had to break him down and build him up again and they've seemingly done a great job.
I think the real issue we often have is player development. I don't know how you install that, but I was hoping Phil did better with it. They've done a good job with Willy and KP, but even KP keeps making the same mistakes that don't seem to be corrected.
Well when you are changing coaches, players and style of play every 6 months it will have an effect on young players and on the team..But Atalanta did a great job rebuilding him..He did show flashes after we traded JR and Shump with a few good games down the stretch..I was surprised at the trade...
Are you saying Phil has been consistent in terms of coaching staff and roster? Because I think his biggest failure has been perpetual turnover and reboots and restarts and no consistency or continuity. I thought we'd be getting a system and a culture of stability from Phil. To me that has been his biggest failure.
holfresh wrote:doesnt matter what his mandate was. He was the worst GM in NY sports history. Terrible deal after terrible deal. Coaching carousel followed by his own laughable coaching job... pls... just dont.fishmike wrote:Nalod wrote:Remember Bulls wanted Eddy to take a DNA test? Offered him an annuity to NOT play ball......Then Isiah traded. To be fair, one of the picks was unprotected, the other was a swap.. Net effect was Noah vs. wilson chandler on the swap.
October 4, 2005: Traded Jermaine Jackson, Mike Sweetney, Tim Thomas, a 2006 1st round draft pick (LaMarcus Aldridge was later selected), a 2007 1st round draft pick (Joakim Noah was later selected), a 2007 2nd round draft pick (Kyrylo Fesenko was later selected) and a 2009 2nd round draft pick (Jon Brockman was later selected) to the Chicago Bulls for Eddy Curry, Antonio Davis and a 2007 1st round draft pick (Wilson Chandler was later selected).Isiah trade what could have been a frontcourt of Aldridge and Noah. He got back Eddie and Wilson... and at least one posted defended him till the bitter end.. #perspectiveDoesnt matter anymore. Phil hasnt been good here but he also hasnt doubled down on his mistakes to the detriment of our future. Isiah's tenure here was among the worst of pro GMs, EVER.
My argument has always been, did Isiah have the option to rebuild??..He took the job with what mandate???..Use assets to make trades to win now!!
But the reason I bring him up is your total double standard. You find some way to take a dump on Phil or a dump on KP at any opportunity in any thread. Its old, lame, trollish and makes for a lousy ultimateknicks experience. Phil has not been good, but he has not been a disaster either and has certainly done some good and showed some promise for the future. His overall body of work is utterly average as GMs go, but he has also left us flexible moving forward. None of his moves whether they are rebuild or win now have bankrupted us for the decade plus your boy did. Hell the Curry trade (we could have drafted Aldridge and Noah) alone is as bad as a trade as any in the NBA. Ever.
So if you get to troll Phil/KP at every chance I get to troll you over your Isiah love. I think thats pretty fair game 
fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:Then why do you hate Phil and covet Isiah?fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:I thought you didnt like bringing up the Isiah?crzymdups wrote:holfresh wrote:crzymdups wrote:holfresh wrote:crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:shooting 42% and 32% from 3 as a starter. He's had a great Feb.fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:Tim had 25 last night, hit some key buckets(threes) down the stretch for the Hawks to get them back in the game..Two games prior he put up 28...And playing better defense too but CJ McCollum did blow by him a few times...He ran the point at times with Schroder on the bench too...25 pts 7 reb 4 asst..Everything about THjr screams utterly average NBA player. More Phil hate.
This is just turning into another stupid trade...
And you Holiday folks, Tim is will be 25 this year and Holiday will be 28...They traded Korver in January and started starting Tim.
In February - He's averaging 20ppg on 50% shooting, 40% from 3pt, with 4rebs and 3ast.
He's in his third year in the league.
Guards get hot. Remember Langston shot 50% from 3 for the first month last year? Atl is 4-3 in Feb.What is the expectation? That no player that is traded can be any good? He was traded for Grant, who I liked a lot. This is hindsight Phil hate. Nothing more. Its old. Maybe I will just troll every holfresh trade with all the good players Isiah lost us? This is old.
Have you watched Atlanta lately? He's a different player since the calendar turned to 2017.
He is a different player with patience and confidence..They haven't watched...
Yep. The thing that still mystifies me is that if we were committed to going Triangle, Hardaway makes so much more sense as a Triangle piece than Jerian Grant.
It does make me wonder if there was something to those rumors about Fisher and Hardaway's girlfriend. Hardaway was traded before the Matt Barnes incident happened... could've been something the Garden was just trying to hush.
Anyway, it's neither here nor there, but he's a quality piece that could be one of three good young starters on the team in KP, Willy, and Hardaway. Add a young PG to that mix this year and all the sudden we have a good young group.
It hurts because of his youth..But in Phil's defense, I didn't see him developing his handle and patience...Truthfully Atlanta has a wonderful player development program. Coach Budenholzer is from the San Antonio / Pop program and it shows.
Look what they did with DeMarre Carroll and Kent Bazemore. Bazemore was essentially Justin Holiday when they got him and they've worked with him to turn him into a guy capable of getting 20pts and locking down the opposing wing. Holiday has that potential... but I sort of doubt it gets developed here.
Same with Hardaway - he was oozing potential, but sort of stalled in his second year and picked up bad habits. Atlanta had to break him down and build him up again and they've seemingly done a great job.
I think the real issue we often have is player development. I don't know how you install that, but I was hoping Phil did better with it. They've done a good job with Willy and KP, but even KP keeps making the same mistakes that don't seem to be corrected.
Well when you are changing coaches, players and style of play every 6 months it will have an effect on young players and on the team..But Atalanta did a great job rebuilding him..He did show flashes after we traded JR and Shump with a few good games down the stretch..I was surprised at the trade...
So you are signing off on Phil's attempt to duplicate Isiah's effort??..Cause the results are strikingly similar...
But no... they are not alike at all. Isiah would have trade KP, Willy, and 3 unprotected first rounders for Boogie Cousins (this CANT fail). When Boogie flops his physical Isiah says "lets do it anyway!"
But all kidding aside we can review after 5 years. Phil hasnt been impressive here at all. He's looked like a guy figuring out how to do a job and has certainly floundered at several turns. However he's brought in some young guys and for a Knicks GM this is unprecedented:
Knick first round draft picks:
2017 - Own
2018 - Own
2019 - Own
2020 - Own
2021 - Own
2022 - Own
2023 - Own
2024 - Own
http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/f...
I'll trade one of those picks in a heart beat for a star or impact role player.
knicks1248 wrote:fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:Then why do you hate Phil and covet Isiah?fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:I thought you didnt like bringing up the Isiah?crzymdups wrote:holfresh wrote:crzymdups wrote:holfresh wrote:crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:shooting 42% and 32% from 3 as a starter. He's had a great Feb.fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:Tim had 25 last night, hit some key buckets(threes) down the stretch for the Hawks to get them back in the game..Two games prior he put up 28...And playing better defense too but CJ McCollum did blow by him a few times...He ran the point at times with Schroder on the bench too...25 pts 7 reb 4 asst..Everything about THjr screams utterly average NBA player. More Phil hate.
This is just turning into another stupid trade...
And you Holiday folks, Tim is will be 25 this year and Holiday will be 28...They traded Korver in January and started starting Tim.
In February - He's averaging 20ppg on 50% shooting, 40% from 3pt, with 4rebs and 3ast.
He's in his third year in the league.
Guards get hot. Remember Langston shot 50% from 3 for the first month last year? Atl is 4-3 in Feb.What is the expectation? That no player that is traded can be any good? He was traded for Grant, who I liked a lot. This is hindsight Phil hate. Nothing more. Its old. Maybe I will just troll every holfresh trade with all the good players Isiah lost us? This is old.
Have you watched Atlanta lately? He's a different player since the calendar turned to 2017.
He is a different player with patience and confidence..They haven't watched...
Yep. The thing that still mystifies me is that if we were committed to going Triangle, Hardaway makes so much more sense as a Triangle piece than Jerian Grant.
It does make me wonder if there was something to those rumors about Fisher and Hardaway's girlfriend. Hardaway was traded before the Matt Barnes incident happened... could've been something the Garden was just trying to hush.
Anyway, it's neither here nor there, but he's a quality piece that could be one of three good young starters on the team in KP, Willy, and Hardaway. Add a young PG to that mix this year and all the sudden we have a good young group.
It hurts because of his youth..But in Phil's defense, I didn't see him developing his handle and patience...Truthfully Atlanta has a wonderful player development program. Coach Budenholzer is from the San Antonio / Pop program and it shows.
Look what they did with DeMarre Carroll and Kent Bazemore. Bazemore was essentially Justin Holiday when they got him and they've worked with him to turn him into a guy capable of getting 20pts and locking down the opposing wing. Holiday has that potential... but I sort of doubt it gets developed here.
Same with Hardaway - he was oozing potential, but sort of stalled in his second year and picked up bad habits. Atlanta had to break him down and build him up again and they've seemingly done a great job.
I think the real issue we often have is player development. I don't know how you install that, but I was hoping Phil did better with it. They've done a good job with Willy and KP, but even KP keeps making the same mistakes that don't seem to be corrected.
Well when you are changing coaches, players and style of play every 6 months it will have an effect on young players and on the team..But Atalanta did a great job rebuilding him..He did show flashes after we traded JR and Shump with a few good games down the stretch..I was surprised at the trade...
So you are signing off on Phil's attempt to duplicate Isiah's effort??..Cause the results are strikingly similar...
But no... they are not alike at all. Isiah would have trade KP, Willy, and 3 unprotected first rounders for Boogie Cousins (this CANT fail). When Boogie flops his physical Isiah says "lets do it anyway!"
But all kidding aside we can review after 5 years. Phil hasnt been impressive here at all. He's looked like a guy figuring out how to do a job and has certainly floundered at several turns. However he's brought in some young guys and for a Knicks GM this is unprecedented:
Knick first round draft picks:
2017 - Own
2018 - Own
2019 - Own
2020 - Own
2021 - Own
2022 - Own
2023 - Own
2024 - Own
http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/f...I'll trade one of those picks in a heart beat for a star or impact role player.
They don't get that. They prefer to dream about hitting Draft lotto. Most fail to mention how many bad picks we've had since 1986. Almost 30 years! But yeah, that will probably change.
fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:doesnt matter what his mandate was. He was the worst GM in NY sports history. Terrible deal after terrible deal. Coaching carousel followed by his own laughable coaching job... pls... just dont.fishmike wrote:Nalod wrote:Remember Bulls wanted Eddy to take a DNA test? Offered him an annuity to NOT play ball......Then Isiah traded. To be fair, one of the picks was unprotected, the other was a swap.. Net effect was Noah vs. wilson chandler on the swap.
October 4, 2005: Traded Jermaine Jackson, Mike Sweetney, Tim Thomas, a 2006 1st round draft pick (LaMarcus Aldridge was later selected), a 2007 1st round draft pick (Joakim Noah was later selected), a 2007 2nd round draft pick (Kyrylo Fesenko was later selected) and a 2009 2nd round draft pick (Jon Brockman was later selected) to the Chicago Bulls for Eddy Curry, Antonio Davis and a 2007 1st round draft pick (Wilson Chandler was later selected).Isiah trade what could have been a frontcourt of Aldridge and Noah. He got back Eddie and Wilson... and at least one posted defended him till the bitter end.. #perspectiveDoesnt matter anymore. Phil hasnt been good here but he also hasnt doubled down on his mistakes to the detriment of our future. Isiah's tenure here was among the worst of pro GMs, EVER.
My argument has always been, did Isiah have the option to rebuild??..He took the job with what mandate???..Use assets to make trades to win now!!But the reason I bring him up is your total double standard. You find some way to take a dump on Phil or a dump on KP at any opportunity in any thread. Its old, lame, trollish and makes for a lousy ultimateknicks experience. Phil has not been good, but he has not been a disaster either and has certainly done some good and showed some promise for the future. His overall body of work is utterly average as GMs go, but he has also left us flexible moving forward. None of his moves whether they are rebuild or win now have bankrupted us for the decade plus your boy did. Hell the Curry trade (we could have drafted Aldridge and Noah) alone is as bad as a trade as any in the NBA. Ever.
So if you get to troll Phil/KP at every chance I get to troll you over your Isiah love. I think thats pretty fair game
The fact that phil and Isiah's name are in the same sentence says something bad..because the flexibility that phil has given us, walsh and glenn did the same thing, with less than what phil had.
Anyone would have given up picks for melo, and all though the bargiani trade was a very stupid one, signing Noah, trumps that.
I don't want to look at it like we are dumping on phil(because every one is slowly realizing he aint that guy on the side lines) it's that your reason for supporting him, is that he kept our draft picks, we been stop mortgaging the future when walsh came in.
phil is the highest paid president in the entire NBA, and has produce 3 straight lottery seasons
fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:doesnt matter what his mandate was. He was the worst GM in NY sports history. Terrible deal after terrible deal. Coaching carousel followed by his own laughable coaching job... pls... just dont.fishmike wrote:Nalod wrote:Remember Bulls wanted Eddy to take a DNA test? Offered him an annuity to NOT play ball......Then Isiah traded. To be fair, one of the picks was unprotected, the other was a swap.. Net effect was Noah vs. wilson chandler on the swap.
October 4, 2005: Traded Jermaine Jackson, Mike Sweetney, Tim Thomas, a 2006 1st round draft pick (LaMarcus Aldridge was later selected), a 2007 1st round draft pick (Joakim Noah was later selected), a 2007 2nd round draft pick (Kyrylo Fesenko was later selected) and a 2009 2nd round draft pick (Jon Brockman was later selected) to the Chicago Bulls for Eddy Curry, Antonio Davis and a 2007 1st round draft pick (Wilson Chandler was later selected).Isiah trade what could have been a frontcourt of Aldridge and Noah. He got back Eddie and Wilson... and at least one posted defended him till the bitter end.. #perspectiveDoesnt matter anymore. Phil hasnt been good here but he also hasnt doubled down on his mistakes to the detriment of our future. Isiah's tenure here was among the worst of pro GMs, EVER.
My argument has always been, did Isiah have the option to rebuild??..He took the job with what mandate???..Use assets to make trades to win now!!But the reason I bring him up is your total double standard. You find some way to take a dump on Phil or a dump on KP at any opportunity in any thread. Its old, lame, trollish and makes for a lousy ultimateknicks experience. Phil has not been good, but he has not been a disaster either and has certainly done some good and showed some promise for the future. His overall body of work is utterly average as GMs go, but he has also left us flexible moving forward. None of his moves whether they are rebuild or win now have bankrupted us for the decade plus your boy did. Hell the Curry trade (we could have drafted Aldridge and Noah) alone is as bad as a trade as any in the NBA. Ever.
So if you get to troll Phil/KP at every chance I get to troll you over your Isiah love. I think thats pretty fair game
Haha..Ok...
Bonn1997 wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:On paper Rose and Holiday are better than having Grant or Hardaway and RoLO.
But let's see what happens in the next few years and if we even re-sigh Holiday.I guess it depends on what info. that paper has. On paper, Rose is a chucker who (when we acquired him) regularly missed many games. I'd say Rolo on paper is the most dependable, solid player from that group.
I would want to know the date on that paper because it maybe a 2011 paper.
No really, even in a down an awful year Lopez is still a better player than Rose plus he would of save the knicks from going after Noah.
yellowboy90 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:On paper Rose and Holiday are better than having Grant or Hardaway and RoLO.
But let's see what happens in the next few years and if we even re-sigh Holiday.I guess it depends on what info. that paper has. On paper, Rose is a chucker who (when we acquired him) regularly missed many games. I'd say Rolo on paper is the most dependable, solid player from that group.
I would want to know the date on that paper because it maybe a 2011 paper.
Ha..I guarantee a different coach next year will get a better outcome from Rose...Rose game needs small changes to be effective..A PG coach like Larry Brown can make the needed adjustment..Lopez was a bad player..Some one needs to point out to Rose the many options he has when he beats his man and gets into the lane...This coaching staff seems overwhelmed..We will let this guy go for nothing..