Knicks · Years down the line we will see how this half of the season ruined us for years to come. (page 2)
Despite what you guys might think, the Knicks are not the absolute worst team in the league. As a result, we may come away with another win or two before the season is over...Philly's next, buckle up!
I agree I don't want Melo playing 38 mpg. Cap him at 30...but the guy shot 25% last night. We've spent the entire season complaining about how he's costing us games. You can't force guys on the court to blow the game - half of them probably aren't sure they'll be here in a year. We're still only 3-7 in the last 10...
nixluva wrote:dude... the team playing better is not a bad thing. Making the playoffs is not a bad thing. Lance, Baker, etc... these guys playing well and winning games is not a bad thing. If the Knicks make a run good. a playoff berth is probably more attainable than a top 3 pick. Its Jeff's job to get the team playing well. If this pumps up the value of Rose/Melo than fine. Makes for some interesting choices in the offseason but whatever.fishmike wrote:this thread doesnt get made if Knicks lose to OrlThere is no reality here
The problem is the Knicks are playing better! It's not a fluke that they won. This team always had the ability to win games if they simply defended better and lately the D has improved. LT being healthy makes a MASSIVE difference and now that Baker is taking BJ's minutes that's even more defense!
The schedule is not tough enough to prevent this team from winning enough games to get back into the playoffs. Nothing is guaranteed but they have a legit shot to get back in. THIS IS VERY REAL.
There seems to be some sentiment that if we arent at least in the 2nd round we should drafting in the top 3. Thats just not reality. Things like benching Melo are no realistic options. A late push certainly hurts draft position, but may help with the offseason judgements as well.
MaTT4281 wrote:Ultimatedramaqueens.comDespite what you guys might think, the Knicks are not the absolute worst team in the league. As a result, we may come away with another win or two before the season is over...Philly's next, buckle up!
I agree I don't want Melo playing 38 mpg. Cap him at 30...but the guy shot 25% last night. We've spent the entire season complaining about how he's costing us games. You can't force guys on the court to blow the game - half of them probably aren't sure they'll be here in a year. We're still only 3-7 in the last 10...
Winning vs the Magic and Sixers means we drop two spots at least- those are double wins/losses because they're ahead of us in the tank standings
fishmike wrote:nixluva wrote:dude... the team playing better is not a bad thing. Making the playoffs is not a bad thing. Lance, Baker, etc... these guys playing well and winning games is not a bad thing. If the Knicks make a run good. a playoff berth is probably more attainable than a top 3 pick. Its Jeff's job to get the team playing well. If this pumps up the value of Rose/Melo than fine. Makes for some interesting choices in the offseason but whatever.fishmike wrote:this thread doesnt get made if Knicks lose to OrlThere is no reality here
The problem is the Knicks are playing better! It's not a fluke that they won. This team always had the ability to win games if they simply defended better and lately the D has improved. LT being healthy makes a MASSIVE difference and now that Baker is taking BJ's minutes that's even more defense!
The schedule is not tough enough to prevent this team from winning enough games to get back into the playoffs. Nothing is guaranteed but they have a legit shot to get back in. THIS IS VERY REAL.
There seems to be some sentiment that if we arent at least in the 2nd round we should drafting in the top 3. Thats just not reality. Things like benching Melo are no realistic options. A late push certainly hurts draft position, but may help with the offseason judgements as well.
I was simply clarifying the fact that this win was not a flash in the pan and the possibility of this team winning is very real.
I don't know about your claim that some feel only the 2nd rd is of any value. The thing is the Knicks where just 2 losses from a top five spot in the Lottery. That is why so many are sighing now. This team was CLOSER to a top 5 pick than the Playoffs.
KP, Willy etc wouldn't be permanently damaged by losing. Lots of young players had to go thru tough seasons before their team got good enough to win. Steph and Klay weren't permanently damaged by losing. At this point the Knicks MUST make the playoffs cuz they WILL win games and this can't be in vain now. PLAYOFFS OR BUST!!!
What the Knicks do is out right stupid, management controls wins and losses players play. It's up to management to get everyone on the coaching staff in the same page and tank. This team always shoots itself in the foot and they are doing no different yet again. When does a team break the cycle of stupidity. One time they do it the walk away with KP. Tanking is a management tool and it is necessary.
I will never understand this team. They don't even know when winning is losing and losing is winning.
Vmart wrote:The NBA doesn't reward teams trying to make the playoffs. They reward teams trying to tank. Pushing for the last playoff spot is stupid. It's not a point of growth is Rose and Melo are the driving force behind it. If the youth movement was driving the push it would be different case.what team has done what you suggest successfully? What is the precedent? Any example would be interesting for discussion.What the Knicks do is out right stupid, management controls wins and losses players play. It's up to management to get everyone on the coaching staff in the same page and tank. This team always shoots itself in the foot and they are doing no different yet again. When does a team break the cycle of stupidity. One time they do it the walk away with KP. Tanking is a management tool and it is necessary.
I will never understand this team. They don't even know when winning is losing and losing is winning.
Vmart wrote:The NBA doesn't reward teams trying to make the playoffs. They reward teams trying to tank. Pushing for the last playoff spot is stupid. It's not a point of growth is Rose and Melo are the driving force behind it. If the youth movement was driving the push it would be different case.What the Knicks do is out right stupid, management controls wins and losses players play. It's up to management to get everyone on the coaching staff in the same page and tank. This team always shoots itself in the foot and they are doing no different yet again. When does a team break the cycle of stupidity. One time they do it the walk away with KP. Tanking is a management tool and it is necessary.
I will never understand this team. They don't even know when winning is losing and losing is winning.
The Media has been savaging Phil and the Knicks and I suspect that they very much believe this team can win games and make the playoffs. The outside pressure has some level of influence on the decision NOT TO TANK.
It was a nice dream for a moment that this team could get a top pick but I believe that dream is close to DEAD 💀 The major issue was the defense and from what I've seen they may have gotten the right mix going now on D. The schedule is weaker and I think that pretty much kills the notion of a top 5 pick and possibly no top 10 pick either.
smackeddog wrote:MaTT4281 wrote:Ultimatedramaqueens.comDespite what you guys might think, the Knicks are not the absolute worst team in the league. As a result, we may come away with another win or two before the season is over...Philly's next, buckle up!
I agree I don't want Melo playing 38 mpg. Cap him at 30...but the guy shot 25% last night. We've spent the entire season complaining about how he's costing us games. You can't force guys on the court to blow the game - half of them probably aren't sure they'll be here in a year. We're still only 3-7 in the last 10...
Winning vs the Magic and Sixers means we drop two spots at least- those are double wins/losses because they're ahead of us in the tank standings
And the fact of the matter is they're ahead of us in the tank standings because they're worse teams than we are (or at least have been up to this point in the season).
I thrilled we have a draft pick this year and the higher it is the better, but we won't lose every game remaining. It just is what it is. I'm upset we didn't get as much effort on defense earlier in the year. I'm not going to get pissed off now that it's improving.
Phil also tanked his 2nd year here. Shutting Melo down and throwing away the season which netted us KP. Yet how many times is it thrown around how under Phil Knicks boasted the worst record in franchise history. So if they don't tank people are mad because we didnt get the top 5 lotto pick. But if we do tank and get a top 5 lotto pick its also held against Phil for the team being so bad.
This is y people ask for 60mil contracts to come here.
MaTT4281 wrote:smackeddog wrote:MaTT4281 wrote:Ultimatedramaqueens.comDespite what you guys might think, the Knicks are not the absolute worst team in the league. As a result, we may come away with another win or two before the season is over...Philly's next, buckle up!
I agree I don't want Melo playing 38 mpg. Cap him at 30...but the guy shot 25% last night. We've spent the entire season complaining about how he's costing us games. You can't force guys on the court to blow the game - half of them probably aren't sure they'll be here in a year. We're still only 3-7 in the last 10...
Winning vs the Magic and Sixers means we drop two spots at least- those are double wins/losses because they're ahead of us in the tank standings
And the fact of the matter is they're ahead of us in the tank standings because they're worse teams than we are (or at least have been up to this point in the season).
I thrilled we have a draft pick this year and the higher it is the better, but we won't lose every game remaining. It just is what it is. I'm upset we didn't get as much effort on defense earlier in the year. I'm not going to get pissed off now that it's improving now.
You can't get mad if the team is legitimately improving! They look like they're figuring things out and improving on D! That combined with an easier schedule means they'll win games and it's legitimately where the team is at. The Knicks simply aren't quite as bad as the record makes them look. They've had a LOT of bad losses.
I think we can kiss the high pick goodbye! Other teams are truly tanking and the Knicks are trying to win.
newyorknewyork wrote:Phil Jackson cut Jennings and signed Casson Randle. Noah is out for the year. Other then cutting Rose and shutting Melo down for the year There isn't much that can be done from a management standpoint.Phil also tanked his 2nd year here. Shutting Melo down and throwing away the season which netted us KP. Yet how many times is it thrown around how under Phil Knicks boasted the worst record in franchise history. So if they don't tank people are mad because we didnt get the top 5 lotto pick. But if we do tank and get a top 5 lotto pick its also held against Phil for the team being so bad.
This is y people ask for 60mil contracts to come here.
EXACTLY!!! Still I was hopeful that the Knicks could get a top 5 pick. Now I'm resigned to the Pick being outside of the top ten when it's all said and done.
nixluva wrote:There isnt one team that is tanking on the floor. Even Phili has always played hard under that coach. Guys should play hard. If you want to ask where was this earlier in the year that is fair. Hopefully the guys who are looked at as building blocks moving forward come through.MaTT4281 wrote:smackeddog wrote:MaTT4281 wrote:Ultimatedramaqueens.comDespite what you guys might think, the Knicks are not the absolute worst team in the league. As a result, we may come away with another win or two before the season is over...Philly's next, buckle up!
I agree I don't want Melo playing 38 mpg. Cap him at 30...but the guy shot 25% last night. We've spent the entire season complaining about how he's costing us games. You can't force guys on the court to blow the game - half of them probably aren't sure they'll be here in a year. We're still only 3-7 in the last 10...
Winning vs the Magic and Sixers means we drop two spots at least- those are double wins/losses because they're ahead of us in the tank standings
And the fact of the matter is they're ahead of us in the tank standings because they're worse teams than we are (or at least have been up to this point in the season).
I thrilled we have a draft pick this year and the higher it is the better, but we won't lose every game remaining. It just is what it is. I'm upset we didn't get as much effort on defense earlier in the year. I'm not going to get pissed off now that it's improving now.
You can't get mad if the team is legitimately improving! They look like they're figuring things out and improving on D! That combined with an easier schedule means they'll win games and it's legitimately where the team is at. The Knicks simply aren't quite as bad as the record makes them look. They've had a LOT of bad losses.
I think we can kiss the high pick goodbye! Other teams are truly tanking and the Knicks are trying to win.
fishmike wrote:nixluva wrote:There isnt one team that is tanking on the floor. Even Phili has always played hard under that coach. Guys should play hard. If you want to ask where was this earlier in the year that is fair. Hopefully the guys who are looked at as building blocks moving forward come through.MaTT4281 wrote:smackeddog wrote:MaTT4281 wrote:Ultimatedramaqueens.comDespite what you guys might think, the Knicks are not the absolute worst team in the league. As a result, we may come away with another win or two before the season is over...Philly's next, buckle up!
I agree I don't want Melo playing 38 mpg. Cap him at 30...but the guy shot 25% last night. We've spent the entire season complaining about how he's costing us games. You can't force guys on the court to blow the game - half of them probably aren't sure they'll be here in a year. We're still only 3-7 in the last 10...
Winning vs the Magic and Sixers means we drop two spots at least- those are double wins/losses because they're ahead of us in the tank standings
And the fact of the matter is they're ahead of us in the tank standings because they're worse teams than we are (or at least have been up to this point in the season).
I thrilled we have a draft pick this year and the higher it is the better, but we won't lose every game remaining. It just is what it is. I'm upset we didn't get as much effort on defense earlier in the year. I'm not going to get pissed off now that it's improving now.
You can't get mad if the team is legitimately improving! They look like they're figuring things out and improving on D! That combined with an easier schedule means they'll win games and it's legitimately where the team is at. The Knicks simply aren't quite as bad as the record makes them look. They've had a LOT of bad losses.
I think we can kiss the high pick goodbye! Other teams are truly tanking and the Knicks are trying to win.
My point is other FRANCHISES are tanking by roster decisions. No players ever Tank. Players play to win, tho sometimes they mentally check out and stop playing as hard.
The thing is this team always had better basketball in them. Now they have more defensive effort and cohesion with LT and Baker in the mix. Just those 2 make a big difference since they hold the line and help glue the D together. This is a huge development for this roster.
SupremeCommander wrote:I agree with this post. The only counter point I can think of is that I can think of/reach for is that if Rose can somehow rehab his value we have a chance at a decent sign and trade
I actually believe Phil will resign Rose. If this team continues to play better and makes the playoffs I expect Phil to bring Rose back. Just a hunch but I can see this happening.
The Starter lineup was questionable at the start of the season having 3 no defensive minded players in the starter lineup in Rose/Melo/and raw KP.
I understand Noah not wanting to be a part of the Knicks at the start of the season, there was no optimism in team-ball in the coaching system of a isolation triangle offense where Iso-Melo gets a touch of the ball on every offensive play for 40 minute per game. And the defensive mind set of the Knicks system were man for man where running back on defense were a option...
Kemet wrote:Whether anyone want to admit it .. the Knicks started the season coaching n substituting like a Tanking team.
The Starter lineup was questionable at the start of the season having 3 no defensive minded players in the starter lineup in Rose/Melo/and raw KP.
I understand Noah not wanting to be a part of the Knicks at the start of the season, there was no optimism in team-ball in the coaching system of a isolation triangle offense where Iso-Melo gets a touch of the ball on every offensive play for 40 minute per game. And the defensive mind set of the Knicks system were man for man where running back on defense were a option...
KP is not a bad defender. He has bad moments but overall he's actually capable of defending quite well. He's been hampered by some leg injuries that could easily account for his defense slipping a bit this year. IMO a healthy KP is a good defender. Rose and Melo most certainly have been bad!!!
With regard to the team defense a huge factor was LT having Plantar Fasciitis early on. Then breaking his face. Now that he's healed up and getting his game back, it's making a big difference. That was a major part of this team missing. Getting rid of BJ and promoting Baker is another positive addition to the defense. It helps to make the defense much stronger at the point of attack. Overall the team defense is getting better and that is going to lead to wins.
nixluva wrote:MaTT4281 wrote:smackeddog wrote:MaTT4281 wrote:Ultimatedramaqueens.comDespite what you guys might think, the Knicks are not the absolute worst team in the league. As a result, we may come away with another win or two before the season is over...Philly's next, buckle up!
I agree I don't want Melo playing 38 mpg. Cap him at 30...but the guy shot 25% last night. We've spent the entire season complaining about how he's costing us games. You can't force guys on the court to blow the game - half of them probably aren't sure they'll be here in a year. We're still only 3-7 in the last 10...
Winning vs the Magic and Sixers means we drop two spots at least- those are double wins/losses because they're ahead of us in the tank standings
And the fact of the matter is they're ahead of us in the tank standings because they're worse teams than we are (or at least have been up to this point in the season).
I thrilled we have a draft pick this year and the higher it is the better, but we won't lose every game remaining. It just is what it is. I'm upset we didn't get as much effort on defense earlier in the year. I'm not going to get pissed off now that it's improving now.
You can't get mad if the team is legitimately improving! They look like they're figuring things out and improving on D! That combined with an easier schedule means they'll win games and it's legitimately where the team is at. The Knicks simply aren't quite as bad as the record makes them look. They've had a LOT of bad losses.
I think we can kiss the high pick goodbye! Other teams are truly tanking and the Knicks are trying to win.
This is fools gold. They are going to pull the same stunt the next year. Guys like Melo and Rose are not reliable. Don't kid yourself this has nothing to do with the Knicks turning it around they just played two team on the tank in Sixer and Magic. Anyway half way decent team they face the Knicks shyt their pants. When the fans want them to win these mofos lose and when the fans want them to lose for the pick these mofos win. They are a crime against humanity.
What did Oden go for another nap. Wake up Phil!! Get this shyt right. Get in that top three pick.
Vmart wrote:How? tell me your plan as GMnixluva wrote:MaTT4281 wrote:smackeddog wrote:MaTT4281 wrote:Ultimatedramaqueens.comDespite what you guys might think, the Knicks are not the absolute worst team in the league. As a result, we may come away with another win or two before the season is over...Philly's next, buckle up!
I agree I don't want Melo playing 38 mpg. Cap him at 30...but the guy shot 25% last night. We've spent the entire season complaining about how he's costing us games. You can't force guys on the court to blow the game - half of them probably aren't sure they'll be here in a year. We're still only 3-7 in the last 10...
Winning vs the Magic and Sixers means we drop two spots at least- those are double wins/losses because they're ahead of us in the tank standings
And the fact of the matter is they're ahead of us in the tank standings because they're worse teams than we are (or at least have been up to this point in the season).
I thrilled we have a draft pick this year and the higher it is the better, but we won't lose every game remaining. It just is what it is. I'm upset we didn't get as much effort on defense earlier in the year. I'm not going to get pissed off now that it's improving now.
You can't get mad if the team is legitimately improving! They look like they're figuring things out and improving on D! That combined with an easier schedule means they'll win games and it's legitimately where the team is at. The Knicks simply aren't quite as bad as the record makes them look. They've had a LOT of bad losses.
I think we can kiss the high pick goodbye! Other teams are truly tanking and the Knicks are trying to win.
This is fools gold. They are going to pull the same stunt the next year. Guys like Melo and Rose are not reliable. Don't kid yourself this has nothing to do with the Knicks turning it around they just played two team on the tank in Sixer and Magic. Anyway half way decent team they face the Knicks shut their pants. When the fans want them to win these mofos lose and when the fans want them to lose for the pick these mofos win. They are anf'ing crime against humanity.
What did Oden go for another nap. Wake up Phil!! Get this shut right. Get in that top three pick.
nixluva wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:I agree with this post. The only counter point I can think of is that I can think of/reach for is that if Rose can somehow rehab his value we have a chance at a decent sign and tradeI actually believe Phil will resign Rose. If this team continues to play better and makes the playoffs I expect Phil to bring Rose back. Just a hunch but I can see this happening.
I'm a little worried this ends up like Melo- forced to bid against ourselves, max deal.
I hope not. He has not earned more than a year from us.
fishmike wrote:Vmart wrote:How? tell me your plan as GMnixluva wrote:MaTT4281 wrote:smackeddog wrote:MaTT4281 wrote:Ultimatedramaqueens.comDespite what you guys might think, the Knicks are not the absolute worst team in the league. As a result, we may come away with another win or two before the season is over...Philly's next, buckle up!
I agree I don't want Melo playing 38 mpg. Cap him at 30...but the guy shot 25% last night. We've spent the entire season complaining about how he's costing us games. You can't force guys on the court to blow the game - half of them probably aren't sure they'll be here in a year. We're still only 3-7 in the last 10...
Winning vs the Magic and Sixers means we drop two spots at least- those are double wins/losses because they're ahead of us in the tank standings
And the fact of the matter is they're ahead of us in the tank standings because they're worse teams than we are (or at least have been up to this point in the season).
I thrilled we have a draft pick this year and the higher it is the better, but we won't lose every game remaining. It just is what it is. I'm upset we didn't get as much effort on defense earlier in the year. I'm not going to get pissed off now that it's improving now.
You can't get mad if the team is legitimately improving! They look like they're figuring things out and improving on D! That combined with an easier schedule means they'll win games and it's legitimately where the team is at. The Knicks simply aren't quite as bad as the record makes them look. They've had a LOT of bad losses.
I think we can kiss the high pick goodbye! Other teams are truly tanking and the Knicks are trying to win.
This is fools gold. They are going to pull the same stunt the next year. Guys like Melo and Rose are not reliable. Don't kid yourself this has nothing to do with the Knicks turning it around they just played two team on the tank in Sixer and Magic. Anyway half way decent team they face the Knicks shut their pants. When the fans want them to win these mofos lose and when the fans want them to lose for the pick these mofos win. They are anf'ing crime against humanity.
What did Oden go for another nap. Wake up Phil!! Get this shut right. Get in that top three pick.
There's literally NO WAY to do this. We've got to face facts this team was underperforming for various reasons. LT being hurt really killed us. KP getting hurt as well. Now with BJ gone you have Baker in there with improved Defense. It's simply the team starting to play like they should've been playing. We've all seen the super close losses and if they improve they won't lose those games. That's always been possible.
I pray that if they start to play better that they can finish the job and make the playoffs. No point in only going halfway. I think they have a good shot to make the playoffs if the all really dig in from now on.
As for the draft there will still be some quality players in this draft outside of the lottery. It's just going to make the task a bit harder but that's why we pay our scouts. Gotta go find those Willy types.