Knicks · Years down the line we will see how this half of the season ruined us for years to come. (page 3)

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:

nixluva wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:Ultimatedramaqueens.com

Despite what you guys might think, the Knicks are not the absolute worst team in the league. As a result, we may come away with another win or two before the season is over...Philly's next, buckle up!

I agree I don't want Melo playing 38 mpg. Cap him at 30...but the guy shot 25% last night. We've spent the entire season complaining about how he's costing us games. You can't force guys on the court to blow the game - half of them probably aren't sure they'll be here in a year. We're still only 3-7 in the last 10...

Winning vs the Magic and Sixers means we drop two spots at least- those are double wins/losses because they're ahead of us in the tank standings

And the fact of the matter is they're ahead of us in the tank standings because they're worse teams than we are (or at least have been up to this point in the season).

I thrilled we have a draft pick this year and the higher it is the better, but we won't lose every game remaining. It just is what it is. I'm upset we didn't get as much effort on defense earlier in the year. I'm not going to get pissed off now that it's improving now.

You can't get mad if the team is legitimately improving! They look like they're figuring things out and improving on D! That combined with an easier schedule means they'll win games and it's legitimately where the team is at. The Knicks simply aren't quite as bad as the record makes them look. They've had a LOT of bad losses.

I think we can kiss the high pick goodbye! Other teams are truly tanking and the Knicks are trying to win.

This is fools gold. They are going to pull the same stunt the next year. Guys like Melo and Rose are not reliable. Don't kid yourself this has nothing to do with the Knicks turning it around they just played two team on the tank in Sixer and Magic. Anyway half way decent team they face the Knicks shut their pants. When the fans want them to win these mofos lose and when the fans want them to lose for the pick these mofos win. They are anf'ing crime against humanity.

What did Oden go for another nap. Wake up Phil!! Get this shut right. Get in that top three pick.

How? tell me your plan as GM

There's literally NO WAY to do this. We've got to face facts this team was underperforming for various reasons. LT being hurt really killed us. KP getting hurt as well. Now with BJ gone you have Baker in there with improved Defense. It's simply the team starting to play like they should've been playing. We've all seen the super close losses and if they improve they won't lose those games. That's always been possible.

I pray that if they start to play better that they can finish the job and make the playoffs. No point in only going halfway. I think they have a good shot to make the playoffs if the all really dig in from now on.

As for the draft there will still be some quality players in this draft outside of the lottery. It's just going to make the task a bit harder but that's why we pay our scouts. Gotta go find those Willy types.

franco12 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I agree with this post. The only counter point I can think of is that I can think of/reach for is that if Rose can somehow rehab his value we have a chance at a decent sign and trade

I actually believe Phil will resign Rose. If this team continues to play better and makes the playoffs I expect Phil to bring Rose back. Just a hunch but I can see this happening.

I'm a little worried this ends up like Melo- forced to bid against ourselves, max deal.

I hope not. He has not earned more than a year from us.

I think that will all depend on how this team performs if it makes the playoffs. If they perform well in the playoffs that will only enhance the chances Rose gets resigned. The only saving grace could be a lack of better offers. That may allow Phil to come in less than a Max, but he's still gonna get PAID.

Nalod wrote:Looks like melo tried to do his part last nite.

Which just underscores how this team will likely not be losing to these sub .500 teams. The draft is over IMO. No top 10 picks are likely. If this team is going to defend better as they have then they can win a good amount of these remaining games!

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:this thread doesnt get made if Knicks lose to Orl

There is no reality here

The problem is the Knicks are playing better! It's not a fluke that they won. This team always had the ability to win games if they simply defended better and lately the D has improved. LT being healthy makes a MASSIVE difference and now that Baker is taking BJ's minutes that's even more defense!

The schedule is not tough enough to prevent this team from winning enough games to get back into the playoffs. Nothing is guaranteed but they have a legit shot to get back in. THIS IS VERY REAL.

What the original poster is saying is "Who gives a F if we make the playoffs". I would say we were in position the other night to play the youngins and sit Carmelo rest of year and have a LEGIT chance VETY legit chance at @ #5 pick or better. I guarantee were going to lose that now and the end result is just like the OP said--we lose.

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:this thread doesnt get made if Knicks lose to Orl

There is no reality here

The problem is the Knicks are playing better! It's not a fluke that they won. This team always had the ability to win games if they simply defended better and lately the D has improved. LT being healthy makes a MASSIVE difference and now that Baker is taking BJ's minutes that's even more defense!

The schedule is not tough enough to prevent this team from winning enough games to get back into the playoffs. Nothing is guaranteed but they have a legit shot to get back in. THIS IS VERY REAL.

What the original poster is saying is "Who gives a F if we make the playoffs". I would say we were in position the other night to play the youngins and sit Carmelo rest of year and have a LEGIT chance VETY legit chance at @ #5 pick or better. I guarantee were going to lose that now and the end result is just like the OP said--we lose.

nixluva wrote:Despite all the losing of extremely close games we all knew this team had the ABILITY to play better. The decision not to move or waive Rose left just enough talent on this team to make a run possible. Melo and Rose are still very capable and now with KP, Willy, CLee, LT, Baker, Holiday and KOQ this is still a talented roster.

They seem to be defending at a higher level now! If they continue to gain chemistry on D then IMO they can go on a run to close out the year and get back in the Playoffs. I couldn't take it if they only got close and didn't make it. That would be such a cruel result for the fan base. So now we have to hope this is not in vain.

It's almost like you don't want to see the obvious.

Melo does not care about the NY Knicks. He does not care about winning. He does not care about team basketball. He does not care about defense.

When Jackson tried to trade him, the tried to leverage him into waiving his NTC to be traded, Melo and Jackson went into what amounts to a game of chicken, who is going to blink first. Melo gets traded, Jackson "wins" but it's actually what is best for the future of this franchise. Jackson gets FIRED or forced to resign, Melo "wins", and its brutal to the franchise.

Melo is not giving actual effort because he cares, he's doing to show he's more valuable than Jackson to get Jackson fired, because Phil is not aligned with what Melo wants ( to be left alone to "brand" himself without giving a f**k bout the Knicks)

Rose is giving effort to secure his next contract next year, so he doesn't come off totally like a team chemistry killing shotjacking selfish criminal jerk off.

This is no different than a super fat chick at some regular job type job, where she sees a guy she likes at work, a new guy, then starts to eat salad and try to lose weight to see if she can snare him. When she realizes he's batting for the other team or banging the girl in HR, she goes back to binge eating on Ring Dings and Pizza Hut. Melo and Rose are the super fat chick in this scenario.

WINNERS do so out of HABIT. Good times, bad times, you roll hard and fight all the same. Reason why Steph Curry IS A WINNER. He played tough and the right way when the Warriors had nothing, he plays the right way when they are contenders.

LOSERS try a little harder based on SHORT TERM INCENTIVES/MOTIVATION. It's not sustainable. It's like a coach telling a player to "get angry" Sure anger will work for a little bit, but it's NOT HABIT. Anger and other forms of short term fixes are not sustainable.

While this interpersonal drama is playing out, it's KILLING the Knicks future draft position.

Melo continues to poison this team. He gutted it on the way in, drove out coaches and players he didn't like because they got more attention or didn't focus on him, he refuses to leave via trade for his almighty "branding" and now he's gutting the future draft prospects of this team to shed the executive to dare to tell him to actually play real team basketball in the first place.

I laugh when people say Melo is a "great guy" and a "good teammate" and a "good player" on this site. Yes, he's an elite 1 vs 1 isolation scorer with no individual offensive weaknesses in terms of pure skill. But that's it, you can't teach heart, you can't teach leadership, you can't teach team work.

This "false hope" is just to get Zen Master fired. Too bad it wasn't done, you know, to ACTUALLY WIN SOME MOTHERF**KING BASKETBALL GAMES, RIGHT?

TripleThreat wrote:

nixluva wrote:Despite all the losing of extremely close games we all knew this team had the ABILITY to play better. The decision not to move or waive Rose left just enough talent on this team to make a run possible. Melo and Rose are still very capable and now with KP, Willy, CLee, LT, Baker, Holiday and KOQ this is still a talented roster.

They seem to be defending at a higher level now! If they continue to gain chemistry on D then IMO they can go on a run to close out the year and get back in the Playoffs. I couldn't take it if they only got close and didn't make it. That would be such a cruel result for the fan base. So now we have to hope this is not in vain.

It's almost like you don't want to see the obvious.

Melo does not care about the NY Knicks. He does not care about winning. He does not care about team basketball. He does not care about defense.

When Jackson tried to trade him, the tried to leverage him into waiving his NTC to be traded, Melo and Jackson went into what amounts to a game of chicken, who is going to blink first. Melo gets traded, Jackson "wins" but it's actually what is best for the future of this franchise. Jackson gets FIRED or forced to resign, Melo "wins", and its brutal to the franchise.

Melo is not giving actual effort because he cares, he's doing to show he's more valuable than Jackson to get Jackson fired, because Phil is not aligned with what Melo wants ( to be left alone to "brand" himself without giving a f**k bout the Knicks)

Rose is giving effort to secure his next contract next year, so he doesn't come off totally like a team chemistry killing shotjacking selfish criminal jerk off.

This is no different than a super fat chick at some regular job type job, where she sees a guy she likes at work, a new guy, then starts to eat salad and try to lose weight to see if she can snare him. When she realizes he's batting for the other team or banging the girl in HR, she goes back to binge eating on Ring Dings and Pizza Hut. Melo and Rose are the super fat chick in this scenario.

WINNERS do so out of HABIT. Good times, bad times, you roll hard and fight all the same. Reason why Steph Curry IS A WINNER. He played tough and the right way when the Warriors had nothing, he plays the right way when they are contenders.

LOSERS try a little harder based on SHORT TERM INCENTIVES/MOTIVATION. It's not sustainable. It's like a coach telling a player to "get angry" Sure anger will work for a little bit, but it's NOT HABIT. Anger and other forms of short term fixes are not sustainable.

While this interpersonal drama is playing out, it's KILLING the Knicks future draft position.

Melo continues to poison this team. He gutted it on the way in, drove out coaches and players he didn't like because they got more attention or didn't focus on him, he refuses to leave via trade for his almighty "branding" and now he's gutting the future draft prospects of this team to shed the executive to dare to tell him to actually play real team basketball in the first place.

I laugh when people say Melo is a "great guy" and a "good teammate" and a "good player" on this site. Yes, he's an elite 1 vs 1 isolation scorer with no individual offensive weaknesses in terms of pure skill. But that's it, you can't teach heart, you can't teach leadership, you can't teach team work.

This "false hope" is just to get Zen Master fired. Too bad it wasn't done, you know, to ACTUALLY WIN SOME MOTHERF**KING BASKETBALL GAMES, RIGHT?

I agree with nearly everything you said and I've said as much in other threads. I'm only making an examination of what I see as the real possibility for the rest of this season. The Knicks aren't good and they aren't bad enough to get the top 5-10 lottery pick! That leaves only trying to make the playoffs!!! That's it! Phil didn't move out the vets so that means the team is still too talented to lose games naturally.

Hornacek is trying to win! The players are trying to win! The draft dream is OVER!!! Look at the remaining schedule and you'll see a lot of winnable games. Enough to keep this team out of the top 10 draft spots. They have a shot at making the playoffs even if it's slim, they've got to try, cuz now the draft is for leftovers from 10-14. That's likely where they end up.

Magic
Lakers
Sixers

All of have been bad for a number of years in a row, tanked hard, got high draft picks.

And where are they now?

nyknickzingis wrote:So the

Magic
Lakers
Sixers

All of have been bad for a number of years in a row, tanked hard, got high draft picks.

And where are they now?

They will be in a better position than the Knicks give it time.

nixluva wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Phil Jackson cut Jennings and signed Casson Randle. Noah is out for the year. Other then cutting Rose and shutting Melo down for the year There isn't much that can be done from a management standpoint.

Phil also tanked his 2nd year here. Shutting Melo down and throwing away the season which netted us KP. Yet how many times is it thrown around how under Phil Knicks boasted the worst record in franchise history. So if they don't tank people are mad because we didnt get the top 5 lotto pick. But if we do tank and get a top 5 lotto pick its also held against Phil for the team being so bad.

This is y people ask for 60mil contracts to come here.

EXACTLY!!! Still I was hopeful that the Knicks could get a top 5 pick. Now I'm resigned to the Pick being outside of the top ten when it's all said and done.

Don't get me wrong, I want the top 5 pick. I just don't see the illogical decisions being made to prevent us from doing so sparking a need to complain about it.

Vmart wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:So the

Magic
Lakers
Sixers

All of have been bad for a number of years in a row, tanked hard, got high draft picks.

And where are they now?

They will be in a better position than the Knicks give it time.

Maybe
Or maybe we will be.

This is not an exact science

nyknickzingis wrote:

Vmart wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:So the

Magic
Lakers
Sixers

All of have been bad for a number of years in a row, tanked hard, got high draft picks.

And where are they now?

They will be in a better position than the Knicks give it time.

Maybe
Or maybe we will be.

This is not an exact science

You guys acting like we are some perennial playoff team with a playoff top seed locked up. The Knicks aren't but two three games from those teams.

Vmart wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

Vmart wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:So the

Magic
Lakers
Sixers

All of have been bad for a number of years in a row, tanked hard, got high draft picks.

And where are they now?

They will be in a better position than the Knicks give it time.

Maybe
Or maybe we will be.

This is not an exact science

You guys acting like we are some perennial playoff team with a playoff top seed locked up. The Knicks aren't but two three games from those teams.

Yes but part of the issue was LT being hurt. He really is a key component to this team. Now that he's fully healthy you can see how much he impacts the team. We need players like LT and now Baker to help cover up for the poor defense of Melo and Rose. LT and Baker help to glue the defense together. That makes our other decent defenders that much better. These other teams are actually worse than the Knicks when the Knicks are at full strength and playing together as they have the last few games.

The Knicks have been able to score but the lack of defense has been the main reason for so many CLOSE losses. We must lead the league in close losses!!! Now this team is able to get a few more stops a game and it make a lot of difference.

KP4Life wrote:Ball, Fultz, and Frank will all become superstars. We will draft miles bridges and realize quickly he's a bust. No free agents will come here and Melo will keep us prisoner for another year. Then we will resign Rose and start the whole process another year failing to just make the playoffs again. Wasting KPs prime years with mediocre veterans obsessed with win now mode. Damn, we might even trade him. Phils reputation ruined by making us even worse than before.

"Remember the 2017 draft?" they will say "we had a chance at drafting the next jordan in Lonzo Ball/Fultz, but melo decided to push for a pointless sweep in the first round by the cavs to fulfill his selfish needs of living in nyc for his brand and being a pretend winner in the short term. Fuck KP" he will say.

Wow, some serious over reacting in this post. You don't know who or where we'll be drafting and just what age do you think will be KP's prime years cause he's 21 now??

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/with...

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:this thread doesnt get made if Knicks lose to Orl

There is no reality here

The problem is the Knicks are playing better! It's not a fluke that they won. This team always had the ability to win games if they simply defended better and lately the D has improved. LT being healthy makes a MASSIVE difference and now that Baker is taking BJ's minutes that's even more defense!

The schedule is not tough enough to prevent this team from winning enough games to get back into the playoffs. Nothing is guaranteed but they have a legit shot to get back in. THIS IS VERY REAL.

They beat Orlando cause Orlando couldn't make a shot if their life depended on it. They had a tom of wide open shots (as usual) but just couldn't make them but a lot of teams will make those shots. The only difference i've seen in the last 2 or 3 games is LT is back and playing good defense.

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:this thread doesnt get made if Knicks lose to Orl

There is no reality here

The problem is the Knicks are playing better! It's not a fluke that they won. This team always had the ability to win games if they simply defended better and lately the D has improved. LT being healthy makes a MASSIVE difference and now that Baker is taking BJ's minutes that's even more defense!

The schedule is not tough enough to prevent this team from winning enough games to get back into the playoffs. Nothing is guaranteed but they have a legit shot to get back in. THIS IS VERY REAL.

What the original poster is saying is "Who gives a F if we make the playoffs". I would say we were in position the other night to play the youngins and sit Carmelo rest of year and have a LEGIT chance VETY legit chance at @ #5 pick or better. I guarantee were going to lose that now and the end result is just like the OP said--we lose.

We were never gonna get a top 5 pick...NEVER. there's more than 4 teams that are worse than we are without a doubt.

nixluva wrote:

Vmart wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

Vmart wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:So the

Magic
Lakers
Sixers

All of have been bad for a number of years in a row, tanked hard, got high draft picks.

And where are they now?

They will be in a better position than the Knicks give it time.

Maybe
Or maybe we will be.

This is not an exact science

You guys acting like we are some perennial playoff team with a playoff top seed locked up. The Knicks aren't but two three games from those teams.

Yes but part of the issue was LT being hurt. He really is a key component to this team. Now that he's fully healthy you can see how much he impacts the team. We need players like LT and now Baker to help cover up for the poor defense of Melo and Rose. LT and Baker help to glue the defense together. That makes our other decent defenders that much better. These other teams are actually worse than the Knicks when the Knicks are at full strength and playing together as they have the last few games.

The Knicks have been able to score but the lack of defense has been the main reason for so many CLOSE losses. We must lead the league in close losses!!! Now this team is able to get a few more stops a game and it make a lot of difference.

Don't forget to add C.Lee in with LT and Baker when you're talking about the guys playing defense and add J.Holiday in there to but C.Lee has been playing really good defense these last few games.