36mm? Even if we dont like him at PG long term--the way the guy is playing moist nights--hes a valuable piece. I dont know how many teams would do more than that. If we get a young PG we could play 2 and 3 guards at one time.
I would only bring him back as a 6th man. Again, Briggs, you like to fall for guys who played well the previous night. This is still the guy who went AWOL, can't defend a chair, can't shoot, only passes once in awhile, and doesn't get to the line at all, which makes him a pretty inefficient scorer. As a 6th man, fine, but he needs to understand that role.
BRIGGS wrote:36mm? Even if we dont like him at PG long term--the way the guy is playing moist nights--hes a valuable piece. I dont know how many teams would do more than that. If we get a young PG we could play 2 and 3 guards at one time.
I can see that. Especially if the young PG is big and can guard SG as well as PG. You could make that work. BUT... The thing is Rose is not a PLUS player. He's under water in terms of his +/- which is a problem on most nights. He's not even in the top 40 in RPM. My main objection is we could go younger and cheaper and pretty much be on the plus side in terms of production from the PG spot.
Knixkik wrote:I would only bring him back as a 6th man. Again, Briggs, you like to fall for guys who played well the previous night. This is still the guy who went AWOL, can't defend a chair, can't shoot, only passes once in awhile, and doesn't get to the line at all, which makes him a pretty inefficient scorer. As a 6th man, fine, but he needs to understand that role.
+1, although in all fairness, Rose could probably handle defending a chair, just not much more than that.
BRIGGS wrote:36mm? Even if we dont like him at PG long term--the way the guy is playing moist nights--hes a valuable piece. I dont know how many teams would do more than that. If we get a young PG we could play 2 and 3 guards at one time.
I don't know whats in his head so the Awol thing, pressure for contract, etc has messed with him.
Phil bought him here for a reason and a vision. His agent BJ armstrong understands the triangle and phil.
Im open minded to his return but I just don't know much of the backstory.
JR gets 14mm a year? 18mm for Rose? Not sure really. Who would spend it? Milwaukee? Bulls if Wade retires? ATL?
Lakers if it don't draft a guard? Sac because its what they do?
Im really undecided about him. Easy to hate him becuase of Awol, but other than that, has he been ok?
I see him only taking a deal like that to go to a playoff team that will up his value so he can cash in 2 years from now. He is not taking short deals with us. If he stays in NY like with all players, he's going to get paid. Markets like LA and NY you can not keep or sign players without paying major money.
Even his buddy Noah got 72M. What do you think Rose would want? Not less than that, probably a little more.
I think he will move on to a team that is already in the playoffs right now. Atlanta and Milwauee come to mind, as does Indiana. Minneosta maybe a reuinion with Thibs. Anywhere else that's a playoff team, he will need to be a 6th man.
His value is around the 12-14MM range, I wouldn't want him here at 18MM
If he wants more he can find the door
nyknickzingis wrote:I see him only taking a deal like that to go to a playoff team that will up his value so he can cash in 2 years from now. He is not taking short deals with us. If he stays in NY like with all players, he's going to get paid. Markets like LA and NY you can not keep or sign players without paying major money.Even his buddy Noah got 72M. What do you think Rose would want? Not less than that, probably a little more.
I think he will move on to a team that is already in the playoffs right now. Atlanta and Milwauee come to mind, as does Indiana. Minneosta maybe a reuinion with Thibs. Anywhere else that's a playoff team, he will need to be a 6th man.
My take is he goes to the highest bidder. If not, he'll do a one year with us and "Invest in himself!!" blah blah.
Nalod wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:I see him only taking a deal like that to go to a playoff team that will up his value so he can cash in 2 years from now. He is not taking short deals with us. If he stays in NY like with all players, he's going to get paid. Markets like LA and NY you can not keep or sign players without paying major money.Even his buddy Noah got 72M. What do you think Rose would want? Not less than that, probably a little more.
I think he will move on to a team that is already in the playoffs right now. Atlanta and Milwauee come to mind, as does Indiana. Minneosta maybe a reuinion with Thibs. Anywhere else that's a playoff team, he will need to be a 6th man.
My take is he goes to the highest bidder. If not, he'll do a one year with us and "Invest in himself!!" blah blah.
I think he's learned the last few years that he's no longer a superstar and that he has to start winning more to prove he's really a very good player. I think he looks to either cash in with the Knicks, because historically the Knicks have always been stupid about this stuff and overpay, or he goes to a playoff team like Atlanta, Miwaukee or Indiana to start and make the playoffs and then get another contract 2 years from now. He's not getting a max contract this year. So longterm he will be thinking win more games, up value, cash in 2 years. I could even see him do a 1+1 (second year player option) for 20M a year with a number of teams. Not us though, we're lottery bad and we're going to be trading Melo (or trying to).
I would go as high as $20M for 2 years with a team option on year 3. $20M is a nice round number and we won't really be under the cap til Melo and Noah come off anyway. CLee and Noah run for three more years, so that's why I'd consider going 3yrs.
That said, I'd really look at what we get in the draft, too. If we get De'Aaron Fox, I'm more inclined to just turn over the keys to him. If we get Frank Ntilikina... it might make more sense to have Rose on board as a mentor, someone to take some pressure off Frank, who seems like more of a project.
Rose is a very good scorer. I wouldnt low ball him. If we think he can fit I think the offer is 2 years $50mm. He stays hungry, Knicks stay flexible, Rose still see's an all star player's pay day. If someone wants to max him out for 4 years by all means.
If we draft a guy like Frank or DFox they can come off the bench. Nothing wrong with that.
crzymdups wrote:I would go as high as $20M for 2 years with a team option on year 3. $20M is a nice round number and we won't really be under the cap til Melo and Noah come off anyway. CLee and Noah run for three more years, so that's why I'd consider going 3yrs.That said, I'd really look at what we get in the draft, too. If we get De'Aaron Fox, I'm more inclined to just turn over the keys to him. If we get Frank Ntilikina... it might make more sense to have Rose on board as a mentor, someone to take some pressure off Frank, who seems like more of a project.
These are excellent points. It does really matter who we draft. Obviously if we draft a STUD PG then you wouldn't want Rose in the way of that player, but a very raw project like Ntilikina is going to need time to develop and then it would make sense to have a vet who can take the pressure off of him. Then again it doesn't have to be Rose per se in the Mentor role.
fishmike wrote:Rose is a very good scorer. I wouldnt low ball him. If we think he can fit I think the offer is 2 years $50mm. He stays hungry, Knicks stay flexible, Rose still see's an all star player's pay day. If someone wants to max him out for 4 years by all means. If we draft a guy like Frank or DFox they can come off the bench. Nothing wrong with that.
I'd actually be very curious to see DFox and DRose in the same backcourt, with Rose playing more of a SG.
DFox
DRose
CLee-or-Lance
Melo
KP
Would be an interesting lineup that could do some damage in transition.
BRIGGS wrote:36mm? Even if we dont like him at PG long term--the way the guy is playing moist nights--hes a valuable piece. I dont know how many teams would do more than that. If we get a young PG we could play 2 and 3 guards at one time.
If we do not trade play-maker Melo asap on draft night, the 2017 FA PG will not look at the Knicks as a option to sign with in the offseason. The Knicks will be forced to resign Rose veteran experience for 2 or 3 seasons. Plus the Knicks will have to select a PG with their lottery pick in the 2017 draft.
Does it matter if its 20mm vs 25mm in the scheme of things?
If Im knicks I look at him as a player and how he fits, then the money.
If IM briggs, I sign him to a day to day contract.
crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:Rose is a very good scorer. I wouldnt low ball him. If we think he can fit I think the offer is 2 years $50mm. He stays hungry, Knicks stay flexible, Rose still see's an all star player's pay day. If someone wants to max him out for 4 years by all means. If we draft a guy like Frank or DFox they can come off the bench. Nothing wrong with that.
I'd actually be very curious to see DFox and DRose in the same backcourt, with Rose playing more of a SG.
DFox
DRose
CLee-or-Lance
Melo
KP
Would be an interesting lineup that could do some damage in transition.
Worst shooting backcourt in the league. It would be a major issue.
Another guy I would be willing to overspend on is Patty Mills. The money seems ridic but especially if we let Melo go for some crappy package we are going to need defense and guys who can keep the score in check. $18mm is too much for Mills, but 2/$36mm really helps us short term. Whether we draft a guard or not we are going to need big help defensively on the wing. Mills is a top flight defensive player who is tough on offense. Its a big overpay but the amount of guys we have on small/rookie deal offsets this, and its a short term deal. It also leaves him young enough for a good payday after that deal.
Knixkik wrote:crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:Rose is a very good scorer. I wouldnt low ball him. If we think he can fit I think the offer is 2 years $50mm. He stays hungry, Knicks stay flexible, Rose still see's an all star player's pay day. If someone wants to max him out for 4 years by all means. If we draft a guy like Frank or DFox they can come off the bench. Nothing wrong with that.
I'd actually be very curious to see DFox and DRose in the same backcourt, with Rose playing more of a SG.
DFox
DRose
CLee-or-Lance
Melo
KP
Would be an interesting lineup that could do some damage in transition.
Worst shooting backcourt in the league. It would be a major issue.
I think there's some hope with Fox when I watch him shoot it doesn't look bad. It looks like a guy that just needs more reps and to get stronger. Not saying he's gonna be an insane 3pt shooter but I can see him making significant improvement once he's able to focus on it with a Pro Level Shooting Guru.
Knixkik wrote:crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:Rose is a very good scorer. I wouldnt low ball him. If we think he can fit I think the offer is 2 years $50mm. He stays hungry, Knicks stay flexible, Rose still see's an all star player's pay day. If someone wants to max him out for 4 years by all means. If we draft a guy like Frank or DFox they can come off the bench. Nothing wrong with that.
I'd actually be very curious to see DFox and DRose in the same backcourt, with Rose playing more of a SG.
DFox
DRose
CLee-or-Lance
Melo
KP
Would be an interesting lineup that could do some damage in transition.
Worst shooting backcourt in the league. It would be a major issue.
Yeah, it could be. We'd still have CLee and Chasson Randle and Baker...
And KP and Melo and Lance/CLee could space the floor from the other positions.
...And I don't think we'd really be looking to contend. Just put together a team that starts to play the style we want to play and keep building through the draft.
The main question with re-signing Rose to me should - are we using him to continue building up the right style of play? Do we think that's possible. Curious to see what Phil thinks.
nixluva wrote:Knixkik wrote:crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:Rose is a very good scorer. I wouldnt low ball him. If we think he can fit I think the offer is 2 years $50mm. He stays hungry, Knicks stay flexible, Rose still see's an all star player's pay day. If someone wants to max him out for 4 years by all means. If we draft a guy like Frank or DFox they can come off the bench. Nothing wrong with that.
I'd actually be very curious to see DFox and DRose in the same backcourt, with Rose playing more of a SG.
DFox
DRose
CLee-or-Lance
Melo
KP
Would be an interesting lineup that could do some damage in transition.
Worst shooting backcourt in the league. It would be a major issue.
I think there's some hope with Fox when I watch him shoot it doesn't look bad. It looks like a guy that just needs more reps and to get stronger. Not saying he's gonna be an insane 3pt shooter but I can see him making significant improvement once he's able to focus on it with a Pro Level Shooting Guru.
I agree, he will learn how to shoot, but we can't put him next to a non-shooter. It would be a disaster putting multiple below average outside shooters around Porzingis and Willy. No more of these awkward lineups, we need to build a real team. Fox is an ideal PG, but we need wings that can shoot and defend.
I would not want to play Rose next to any rookie I draft. Any rookie. If I draft a kid that is just so good he warrants being run out there as a starter Rose would be the guy to move to the bench. No reason he cant play a Lou Williams role. He can have 15 minutes or so as the back up PG and another 10-15 in 3 guard sets. On paper the perfect guy for Rose to play next to is a 6'6 PG with a 7'0 wingspan like Frank, but the time line doesnt match up. No way that kid is ready to effectively cover for Rose's shortcomings. Rose needs an Eric Snow type.
