Knicks · Mannix lottery podcast with Givony and Wojo (page 1)

https://art19.com/shows/vertical-chris-m...

Wojo talked about how he thinks the biggest things the Knicks need to do this offseason is get things right with KP. He said KP has reached out to a lot of star players to ask for pointers, what organizations that win do etc. and that he isn't seeing it in NY. He also spoke to Porzingis being one of the highest character rookies he had encountered. He described him as a guy that wants to be great and win in NY but doesn't see the foundation in place for winning with the dysfunction etc that has been going on since he arrived. He talks a lot more about it. He said the Knicks shouldn't be building around KP if they don't know if he is going to stay. Givony and Woj seem to think Smith will be the most talented player at 8 but the KNicks might reach and take Frank because of his triangle fit. Woj also mentioned KP telling him that he worked so hard in workouts for the nba draft that he almost threw up. He said Smith needs to show that kind of work ethic to improve his stock. A lot of good stuff. Givony suggested Fultz could even play sf for the Celts. Woj said Russell may become expendable for the Lakers and might be moved. One of the guys sees Phoenix as building a team like the Jazz have and Givony likes where Sac is with the two picks. Portland also mentioned as a team that probably looks to move picks because their roster already is so young.

Not bad. I think they spent a bit too much time editorializing about the Knicks Front Office and KP. KP WANTS to be in NY. The Knicks will have plenty of time to get KP straightened out. The Knicks will be adding a lot of talent to play with KP. There's really no major hindrances once the Melo issue is resolved.

nixluva wrote:Not bad. I think they spent a bit too much time editorializing about the Knicks Front Office and KP. KP WANTS to be in NY. The Knicks will have plenty of time to get KP straightened out. The Knicks will be adding a lot of talent to play with KP. There's really no major hindrances once the Melo issue is resolved.

I think Wojo generally is in a state of disbelief in regards to how bad things are with the Knicks and Phil running things. This was the first time that I have heard him reference having a conversation with KP. (it wasnt about the state of the knicks). I also thought his insight into Pelinka scouting and recruiting guys to sign with him right up until he became gm of the Lakers was interesting. I wonder if more teams follow the Warriors model and hire agents to run things.

Thanks for posting....Sheds more light on what some of us expected in terms of KP being unhappy with our dysfunctional front office...Clearly, the dysfunction top to bottom has not been overblown as some phil supporters suggest. Forget choosing between Melo and Phil...if it came down to it, I'm choosing KP over phil. In KP, we have a potential franchise player and we really need to send the message that we are committed to being a first-class organization....

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:Not bad. I think they spent a bit too much time editorializing about the Knicks Front Office and KP. KP WANTS to be in NY. The Knicks will have plenty of time to get KP straightened out. The Knicks will be adding a lot of talent to play with KP. There's really no major hindrances once the Melo issue is resolved.

I think Wojo generally is in a state of disbelief in regards to how bad things are with the Knicks and Phil running things. This was the first time that I have heard him reference having a conversation with KP. (it wasnt about the state of the knicks). I also thought his insight into Pelinka scouting and recruiting guys to sign with him right up until he became gm of the Lakers was interesting. I wonder if more teams follow the Warriors model and hire agents to run things.

The main issue was dealing with Rose missing camp and then Noah not being healthy. Then BJ and Melo not buying in and all of them basically mounting a Mutiny! Once Melo is gone THERE IS NO DYSFUNCTION! People are not picking up on how detrimental the vets were to the process this year. KP and Janis are taking the Players side but not realizing those guys were wrong.

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:Not bad. I think they spent a bit too much time editorializing about the Knicks Front Office and KP. KP WANTS to be in NY. The Knicks will have plenty of time to get KP straightened out. The Knicks will be adding a lot of talent to play with KP. There's really no major hindrances once the Melo issue is resolved.

I think Wojo generally is in a state of disbelief in regards to how bad things are with the Knicks and Phil running things. This was the first time that I have heard him reference having a conversation with KP. (it wasnt about the state of the knicks). I also thought his insight into Pelinka scouting and recruiting guys to sign with him right up until he became gm of the Lakers was interesting. I wonder if more teams follow the Warriors model and hire agents to run things.

The main issue was dealing with Rose missing camp and then Noah not being healthy. Then BJ and Melo not buying in and all of them basically mounting a Mutiny! Once Melo is gone THERE IS NO DYSFUNCTION! People are not picking up on how detrimental the vets were to the process this year. KP and Janis are taking the Players side but not realizing those guys were wrong.

I don't remember it verbatim but I think Wojo stated what the issues were very well. I agree with him. I don't think KP sticks around if Phil keeps messing up in all aspects of his job. Nothing he said in his presser gave any indication that he is changing. If anything he is doubling down.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:Not bad. I think they spent a bit too much time editorializing about the Knicks Front Office and KP. KP WANTS to be in NY. The Knicks will have plenty of time to get KP straightened out. The Knicks will be adding a lot of talent to play with KP. There's really no major hindrances once the Melo issue is resolved.

I think Wojo generally is in a state of disbelief in regards to how bad things are with the Knicks and Phil running things. This was the first time that I have heard him reference having a conversation with KP. (it wasnt about the state of the knicks). I also thought his insight into Pelinka scouting and recruiting guys to sign with him right up until he became gm of the Lakers was interesting. I wonder if more teams follow the Warriors model and hire agents to run things.

The main issue was dealing with Rose missing camp and then Noah not being healthy. Then BJ and Melo not buying in and all of them basically mounting a Mutiny! Once Melo is gone THERE IS NO DYSFUNCTION! People are not picking up on how detrimental the vets were to the process this year. KP and Janis are taking the Players side but not realizing those guys were wrong.

I don't remember it verbatim but I think Wojo stated what the issues were very well. I agree with him. I don't think KP sticks around if Phil keeps messing up in all aspects of his job. Nothing he said in his presser gave any indication that he is changing. If anything he is doubling down.

KP will stay because it's in his BEST interests and NOTHING has been so bad to warrant KP sacrificing Millions that he can make by signing an Extension and subsequent contracts in NY! Phil is about to be the only Knicks GM to have a roster built with 2 top 10 Knicks Draft Picks! We haven't seen this from any Knicks GM in recent history.

This will be a much better team minus Players that don't buy in or give Max Effort. KP will see this as will everyone else. Including you

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:Not bad. I think they spent a bit too much time editorializing about the Knicks Front Office and KP. KP WANTS to be in NY. The Knicks will have plenty of time to get KP straightened out. The Knicks will be adding a lot of talent to play with KP. There's really no major hindrances once the Melo issue is resolved.

I think Wojo generally is in a state of disbelief in regards to how bad things are with the Knicks and Phil running things. This was the first time that I have heard him reference having a conversation with KP. (it wasnt about the state of the knicks). I also thought his insight into Pelinka scouting and recruiting guys to sign with him right up until he became gm of the Lakers was interesting. I wonder if more teams follow the Warriors model and hire agents to run things.

The main issue was dealing with Rose missing camp and then Noah not being healthy. Then BJ and Melo not buying in and all of them basically mounting a Mutiny! Once Melo is gone THERE IS NO DYSFUNCTION! People are not picking up on how detrimental the vets were to the process this year. KP and Janis are taking the Players side but not realizing those guys were wrong.

I don't remember it verbatim but I think Wojo stated what the issues were very well. I agree with him. I don't think KP sticks around if Phil keeps messing up in all aspects of his job. Nothing he said in his presser gave any indication that he is changing. If anything he is doubling down.

KP will stay because it's in his BEST interests and NOTHING has been so bad to warrant KP sacrificing Millions that he can make by signing an Extension and subsequent contracts in NY! Phil is about to be the only Knicks GM to have a roster built with 2 top 10 Knicks Draft Picks! We haven't seen this from any Knicks GM in recent history.

This will be a much better team minus Players that don't buy in or give Max Effort. KP will see this as will everyone else. Including you

We haven't seen it partially because no other gm has had a record like this since the 80's. But the Knicks did have Hill and Gallo during the Walsh era. Also, the Knicks have not been allowed to trade a 1st round pick because of the cba.

I think more than anything KP doesn't think he is being developed probably and that points to coaching. He may like JH but he may not like the some of the secondary coaches he's working with. Then again JH could be included too I do know but Janis quote about growth and the environment is huge to me.

“The only thing he wants is for the Knicks to create an environment where he can develop and grow as a player and win.”

So why does he feel this way? What is the environment really like behind the curtain? Posters can blame the vets but I think it is way deeper than the vets.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:Not bad. I think they spent a bit too much time editorializing about the Knicks Front Office and KP. KP WANTS to be in NY. The Knicks will have plenty of time to get KP straightened out. The Knicks will be adding a lot of talent to play with KP. There's really no major hindrances once the Melo issue is resolved.

I think Wojo generally is in a state of disbelief in regards to how bad things are with the Knicks and Phil running things. This was the first time that I have heard him reference having a conversation with KP. (it wasnt about the state of the knicks). I also thought his insight into Pelinka scouting and recruiting guys to sign with him right up until he became gm of the Lakers was interesting. I wonder if more teams follow the Warriors model and hire agents to run things.

The main issue was dealing with Rose missing camp and then Noah not being healthy. Then BJ and Melo not buying in and all of them basically mounting a Mutiny! Once Melo is gone THERE IS NO DYSFUNCTION! People are not picking up on how detrimental the vets were to the process this year. KP and Janis are taking the Players side but not realizing those guys were wrong.

I don't remember it verbatim but I think Wojo stated what the issues were very well. I agree with him. I don't think KP sticks around if Phil keeps messing up in all aspects of his job. Nothing he said in his presser gave any indication that he is changing. If anything he is doubling down.

KP will stay because it's in his BEST interests and NOTHING has been so bad to warrant KP sacrificing Millions that he can make by signing an Extension and subsequent contracts in NY! Phil is about to be the only Knicks GM to have a roster built with 2 top 10 Knicks Draft Picks! We haven't seen this from any Knicks GM in recent history.

This will be a much better team minus Players that don't buy in or give Max Effort. KP will see this as will everyone else. Including you

We haven't seen it partially because no other gm has had a record like this since the 80's. But the Knicks did have Hill and Gallo during the Walsh era. Also, the Knicks have not been allowed to trade a 1st round pick because of the cba.

You know that Phil has been adding picks and his stated goal was to protect the future of the franchise! KP was going strong before he injured himself so I disagree with the notion that somehow the Knicks haven't developed him. He was on pace for a breakout year!

WTH does KP know about player development? If he knew it all he wouldn't be looking to get with Dirk. Let's stop giving so much credence to the opinions of a 21 yr old as if he knows what's best for his career. Phil has guided so many players to success so I would say he knows much more. In fact the players like Rose, Melo n BJ are simply wrong in the head. They assumed to know more than Phil and the coaching staff. WTH did any of those players achieve to be so presumptuous? Why are you giving them so much respect? SMDH!

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:Not bad. I think they spent a bit too much time editorializing about the Knicks Front Office and KP. KP WANTS to be in NY. The Knicks will have plenty of time to get KP straightened out. The Knicks will be adding a lot of talent to play with KP. There's really no major hindrances once the Melo issue is resolved.

I think Wojo generally is in a state of disbelief in regards to how bad things are with the Knicks and Phil running things. This was the first time that I have heard him reference having a conversation with KP. (it wasnt about the state of the knicks). I also thought his insight into Pelinka scouting and recruiting guys to sign with him right up until he became gm of the Lakers was interesting. I wonder if more teams follow the Warriors model and hire agents to run things.

The main issue was dealing with Rose missing camp and then Noah not being healthy. Then BJ and Melo not buying in and all of them basically mounting a Mutiny! Once Melo is gone THERE IS NO DYSFUNCTION! People are not picking up on how detrimental the vets were to the process this year. KP and Janis are taking the Players side but not realizing those guys were wrong.

I don't remember it verbatim but I think Wojo stated what the issues were very well. I agree with him. I don't think KP sticks around if Phil keeps messing up in all aspects of his job. Nothing he said in his presser gave any indication that he is changing. If anything he is doubling down.

KP will stay because it's in his BEST interests and NOTHING has been so bad to warrant KP sacrificing Millions that he can make by signing an Extension and subsequent contracts in NY! Phil is about to be the only Knicks GM to have a roster built with 2 top 10 Knicks Draft Picks! We haven't seen this from any Knicks GM in recent history.

This will be a much better team minus Players that don't buy in or give Max Effort. KP will see this as will everyone else. Including you

We haven't seen it partially because no other gm has had a record like this since the 80's. But the Knicks did have Hill and Gallo during the Walsh era. Also, the Knicks have not been allowed to trade a 1st round pick because of the cba.

You know that Phil has been adding picks and his stated goal was to protect the future of the franchise! KP was going strong before he injured himself so I disagree with the notion that somehow the Knicks haven't developed him. He was on pace for a breakout year!

WTH does KP know about player development? If he knew it all he wouldn't be looking to get with Dirk. Let's stop giving so much credence to the opinions of a 21 yr old as if he knows what's best for his career. Phil has guided so many players to success so I would say he knows much more. In fact the players like Rose, Melo n BJ are simply wrong in the head. They assumed to know more than Phil and the coaching staff. WTH did any of those players achieve to be so presumptuous? Why are you giving them so much respect? SMDH!

Phil has added 2 second round picks and he traded one. Being critical of Phil is not the same as giving the players respect. Also, KP is far from a malcontent. KP isnt coming back from Latvia this offseason to be developed or attend triangle workshops Phil isn't the coach and he hasn't been a good president to date. Nothing he has said or done recently gives me any hope that he is going to improve at his craft. His stated goal is to mentor more.

Having an environment that lets Rose go unpunished for leaving his team without notice is a problem. Maybe KP does not want stuff like that to continue. Maybe there are more inside incidents that we do not know about that has KP feeling the way he does.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:Not bad. I think they spent a bit too much time editorializing about the Knicks Front Office and KP. KP WANTS to be in NY. The Knicks will have plenty of time to get KP straightened out. The Knicks will be adding a lot of talent to play with KP. There's really no major hindrances once the Melo issue is resolved.

I think Wojo generally is in a state of disbelief in regards to how bad things are with the Knicks and Phil running things. This was the first time that I have heard him reference having a conversation with KP. (it wasnt about the state of the knicks). I also thought his insight into Pelinka scouting and recruiting guys to sign with him right up until he became gm of the Lakers was interesting. I wonder if more teams follow the Warriors model and hire agents to run things.

The main issue was dealing with Rose missing camp and then Noah not being healthy. Then BJ and Melo not buying in and all of them basically mounting a Mutiny! Once Melo is gone THERE IS NO DYSFUNCTION! People are not picking up on how detrimental the vets were to the process this year. KP and Janis are taking the Players side but not realizing those guys were wrong.

I don't remember it verbatim but I think Wojo stated what the issues were very well. I agree with him. I don't think KP sticks around if Phil keeps messing up in all aspects of his job. Nothing he said in his presser gave any indication that he is changing. If anything he is doubling down.

KP will stay because it's in his BEST interests and NOTHING has been so bad to warrant KP sacrificing Millions that he can make by signing an Extension and subsequent contracts in NY! Phil is about to be the only Knicks GM to have a roster built with 2 top 10 Knicks Draft Picks! We haven't seen this from any Knicks GM in recent history.

This will be a much better team minus Players that don't buy in or give Max Effort. KP will see this as will everyone else. Including you

We haven't seen it partially because no other gm has had a record like this since the 80's. But the Knicks did have Hill and Gallo during the Walsh era. Also, the Knicks have not been allowed to trade a 1st round pick because of the cba.

You know that Phil has been adding picks and his stated goal was to protect the future of the franchise! KP was going strong before he injured himself so I disagree with the notion that somehow the Knicks haven't developed him. He was on pace for a breakout year!

WTH does KP know about player development? If he knew it all he wouldn't be looking to get with Dirk. Let's stop giving so much credence to the opinions of a 21 yr old as if he knows what's best for his career. Phil has guided so many players to success so I would say he knows much more. In fact the players like Rose, Melo n BJ are simply wrong in the head. They assumed to know more than Phil and the coaching staff. WTH did any of those players achieve to be so presumptuous? Why are you giving them so much respect? SMDH!

Phil has added 2 second round picks and he traded one. Being critical of Phil is not the same as giving the players respect. Also, KP is far from a malcontent. KP isnt coming back from Latvia this offseason to be developed or attend triangle workshops Phil isn't the coach and he hasn't been a good president to date. Nothing he has said or done recently gives me any hope that he is going to improve at his craft. His stated goal is to mentor more.

KP will learn that Phil is trying to help him get to the next level. KP said he WANTS to run Triangle!!!

Phil, Jeff and Rambis work together and are in sync so that's a good thing. The whole Front Office seems to be in lock step and working well together.

You are paying too much attention to the BS and totally missing the legit things going on with the team. The Melo thing will be resolved one way or another. KP is gonna still be a Knick. There are no other serious issues. Stop buying into the negative. Let's hope for a successful offseason and a season minus DRAMA! We can get back to just basketball.

CrushAlot wrote:Wojo talked about how he thinks the biggest things the Knicks need to do this offseason is get things right with KP. He said KP has reached out to a lot of star players to ask for pointers, what organizations that win do etc. and that he isn't seeing it in NY. He also spoke to Porzingis being one of the highest character rookies he had encountered. He described him as a guy that wants to be great and win in NY but doesn't see the foundation in place for winning with the dysfunction etc that has been going on since he arrived. He talks a lot more about it. He said the Knicks shouldn't be building around KP if they don't know if he is going to stay. Givony and Woj seem to think Smith will be the most talented player at 8 but the KNicks might reach and take Frank because of his triangle fit. Woj also mentioned KP telling him that he worked so hard in workouts for the nba draft that he almost threw up. He said Smith needs to show that kind of work ethic to improve his stock. A lot of good stuff. Givony suggested Fultz could even play sf for the Celts. Woj said Russell may become expendable for the Lakers and might be moved. One of the guys sees Phoenix as building a team like the Jazz have and Givony likes where Sac is with the two picks. Portland also mentioned as a team that probably looks to move picks because their roster already is so young.

I just finished listening to the podcast and I think there's a lot of spin being put on unrelated information.

Yes KP has reached out to a lot of stars asking advice. [This is a god thing]

And yes he may have asked what winning teams do. [Presumably factoring in winning]

But I seriously doubt that Wojo or Giveny have ANY insight into Porzingis's experience with the Knicks. Nor can I imagine that Porzingis doesn't understand that it was Melo and not him that last year's team was meant to complement in hopes of a winning season.

So the idea that Porzingis is disappointed in the Knicks for not building around him is dubious. The Knicks aquired both Hermangomez and Kuz and Porzingis himself had a successful sophomore year [avoiding the usual sophomore jinx]. And its doubtful he didn't find inspiration in Noah's influence.

These commentators also get wrapped around the axle with Triangle anguish. The sky will fall because of the Triangle. Its both irrational and unlistenable criticism (bullsh@t). If a draftee CAN play in the triangle system why is that bad? Does it mean they can't someday play stupid? I don't think so.

They also gush about Dennis Smith and tap dance around his lack of motivation and don't bother mention his previous knee injury.

The criticism of the Knicks being dysfunctional seems to get magnified because the Knicks didn't move up in the lottery (what could be more dysfunctional? State taxes?).

But again, examine the following chart;

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-draft-pi...

Eighth picks actually have a better draft history than even earlier picks.

Reports of Knicks dysfunction are highly exagerrated. Too bad the media has their head so far up their butts they can't see it.

yellowboy90 wrote:Having an environment that lets Rose go unpunished for leaving his team without notice is a problem. Maybe KP does not want stuff like that to continue. Maybe there are more inside incidents that we do not know about that has KP feeling the way he does.

So he goes and does pretty much what rose does? Hypocrisy!

smackeddog wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Having an environment that lets Rose go unpunished for leaving his team without notice is a problem. Maybe KP does not want stuff like that to continue. Maybe there are more inside incidents that we do not know about that has KP feeling the way he does.

So he goes and does pretty much what rose does? Hypocrisy!

THIS. And this is why the idea that Porzingis is upset in these ways doesn't make sense. He very well may not want the Rose we saw last year back but the idea that he would want a teammate with a personal issue punished for doing something stupid makes no sense given his own conduct. And make no mistake his own conduct was equally in error.

During the podcast two of these jamokes said something to the effect that Mills or Phil should have jumped in a limo and never let KP go to Latvia without a talk. Yeah, you can just imagine the NY papers expressing compassion and reason with that.

it was a lousy season. Things change very quickly. That is going to have a big impact on a young player like KP. They are human. Its very difficult to lose in NY and the local media treats Dolan's squad like CNN treats Trump. The only thing that is going to change it is some winning ball and or a team that the fans can really get behind.

smackeddog wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Having an environment that lets Rose go unpunished for leaving his team without notice is a problem. Maybe KP does not want stuff like that to continue. Maybe there are more inside incidents that we do not know about that has KP feeling the way he does.

So he goes and does pretty much what rose does? Hypocrisy!

The reason why Rose only came away with a small fine was because his teammates came together and asked management not to punish him after hearing his reasons. So i'm guessing management was moved and gave him a slap on the wrist.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:Not bad. I think they spent a bit too much time editorializing about the Knicks Front Office and KP. KP WANTS to be in NY. The Knicks will have plenty of time to get KP straightened out. The Knicks will be adding a lot of talent to play with KP. There's really no major hindrances once the Melo issue is resolved.

I think Wojo generally is in a state of disbelief in regards to how bad things are with the Knicks and Phil running things. This was the first time that I have heard him reference having a conversation with KP. (it wasnt about the state of the knicks). I also thought his insight into Pelinka scouting and recruiting guys to sign with him right up until he became gm of the Lakers was interesting. I wonder if more teams follow the Warriors model and hire agents to run things.

There doesn't seem to be any disconnect between Phil, Mills, JH. They pretty much explained what happen this season. The "dysfunction" came from them trying to figure out how to adjust JHs modern triangle with Rose, Jennings & Melo's games. They tried different things to find solutions to these answers thus causing "dysfunction". JH is not at the stage of his career where he can demand players like Rose and Melo conform to his will or to die on his shield. So he tried different angles to try and make it work. Nothing worked because Rose and Melo played for themselves and were getting a pass doing it while Phil and JH took all the heat.

newyorknewyork wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Having an environment that lets Rose go unpunished for leaving his team without notice is a problem. Maybe KP does not want stuff like that to continue. Maybe there are more inside incidents that we do not know about that has KP feeling the way he does.

So he goes and does pretty much what rose does? Hypocrisy!

The reason why Rose only came away with a small fine was because his teammates came together and asked management not to punish him after hearing his reasons. So i'm guessing management was moved and gave him a slap on the wrist.

I had never heard this explanation before but its refreshing. It also incontrovertibly contradicts the pundit fiction. A dysfunctional organization would have no such ad hoc process that would not only be listened to but responded to respectfully.