This isn't a horrible trade from Ainge by any means. He did the right thing in selling high on Thomas.
Guys who are 5'9" just can't keep balling at that level for that long.
He traded a currently good player, a role player and the Nets pick (which is big) for a guy who adds a little more star power to a team that already has Hayward.
JrZyHuStLa wrote:This isn't a horrible trade from Ainge by any means. He did the right thing in selling high on Thomas.Guys who are 5'9" just can't keep balling at that level for that long.
He traded a currently good player, a role player and the Nets pick (which is big) for a guy who adds a little more star power to a team that already has Hayward.
Most importantly, Danny has extended the Celtics window of opportunity significantly. In 4 years Hayward will be 31, Kyrie 29, Jaylen Brown 24, and Tatum 23. That is a time where they can potentially be the favorites to win it all when Golden State slips.
knicks1248 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:I'd say Thomas is a notch above Kyrie but you're right that he might be damaged goods. Thomas is the better scorer. He does more damage from 3s and the FT line. He even got a bunch of MVP votes. Crowder is a very good player too. If Isaiah is healthy, this a tremendous steal for Cleveland.
This is a good trade for both teams, no one really got fleeced.
This is the kind of trade phil wanted for melo, and if melo had open up his options he would have gotten it
No one would give up this much for Melo. He's an inferior and older player. An protected lottery pick, an MVP candidate, and a very strong role player? That's a trillion times more than you could get for Melo.
SupremeCommander wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:I'd say Thomas is a notch above Kyrie but you're right that he might be damaged goods. Thomas is the better scorer. He does more damage from 3s and the FT line. He even got a bunch of MVP votes. Crowder is a very good player too. If Isaiah is healthy, this a tremendous steal for Cleveland.
disagree, though I love Thomas. Bottom line is IT is small. You can negate his awesomeness by putting someone big on him. I think three's a good chance Frank might be able to slow IT down this year. I don't think that's realistic against Kyrie. Plus, IT is going for his big contract at age 30
Were IT's offensive skills negated in more games than Kyrie's? I doubt it.
Yeah, he'll get a huge contract 2 years before Kyrie does. That's somewhat worrisome but as long as Lebron stays in Cleveland, it's not that big a deal since they're not looking for cap space.
NardDogNation wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Wow, the Knicks didn't overpay for a big name. They didn't give up picks and prospects for someone who would help in the short-term. This Mills/Perry regime appears to be different.
Or they just didn't have the assets, which I think is more likely. Don't be surprised to see them do another boneheaded decision in 2018...like being the only team willing to offer Isiah Thomas max.
Melo, KP, Willy, Ntilikina, all our picks? I think we could have gotten the deal done if we were going to be stupid unless Cleveland was obsessed with getting Isaiah.
Knixkik wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:This isn't a horrible trade from Ainge by any means. He did the right thing in selling high on Thomas.Guys who are 5'9" just can't keep balling at that level for that long.
He traded a currently good player, a role player and the Nets pick (which is big) for a guy who adds a little more star power to a team that already has Hayward.
Most importantly, Danny has extended the Celtics window of opportunity significantly. In 4 years Hayward will be 31, Kyrie 29, Jaylen Brown 24, and Tatum 23. That is a time where they can potentially be the favorites to win it all when Golden State slips.
I don't know, Hayward,brown,Tatum all play the same position kyrie will not stay in Boston after 2 years. You better believe that jersey boy is going to vomit every time he looks at his green uniform.
Kyrie is extremely injury prone,lebron was able to mask kyrie's very bad defense. Now with crowder and Bradley gone the celts might be awful on defense all around.
Bonn1997 wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:I'd say Thomas is a notch above Kyrie but you're right that he might be damaged goods. Thomas is the better scorer. He does more damage from 3s and the FT line. He even got a bunch of MVP votes. Crowder is a very good player too. If Isaiah is healthy, this a tremendous steal for Cleveland.
disagree, though I love Thomas. Bottom line is IT is small. You can negate his awesomeness by putting someone big on him. I think three's a good chance Frank might be able to slow IT down this year. I don't think that's realistic against Kyrie. Plus, IT is going for his big contract at age 30
Were IT's offensive skills negated in more games than Kyrie's? I doubt it.
Yeah, he'll get a huge contract 2 years before Kyrie does. That's somewhat worrisome but as long as Lebron stays in Cleveland, it's not that big a deal since they're not looking for cap space.
Its already clear. So many things are pointing to LBJ moving on after this year. Cavss know it. They get two one year rentals for a possible chip this year with LBJ and then cap space to rebuild, with a 1st round pick that can help the rebuild next year. Think they also deal Love after this year or possibly by mid year. Everyone thinks the Celtics got fleeced. Fact is, as another poster noted, they will have very young core of All Stars. Added to there young pieces and they still have more draft picks. Boston is positioned for long term success. Imo.
Honestly what the heck is bostons line up going to look like?
Barnes,blank
Hartford,Morris
Hayward,Tatum
Brown,rosier
Kyrie,smart
Hahaha is it just me or did the celts downgrade? They just went from a plus defensive team to a minus defensive team. Prob still #2 in the weak east, but no way they get past Cleveland with there current line up
fitzfarm wrote:Honestly what the heck is bostons line up going to look like?
Barnes,blank
Hartford,Morris
Hayward,Tatum
Brown,rosier
Kyrie,smartHahaha is it just me or did the celts downgrade? They just went from a plus defensive team to a minus defensive team. Prob still #2 in the weak east, but no way they get past Cleveland with there current line up
they may well have taken a step back this season... that said, Kyrie is 25 and Hayword is 27... that has potential for many years to come
JrZyHuStLa wrote:This isn't a horrible trade from Ainge by any means. He did the right thing in selling high on Thomas.Guys who are 5'9" just can't keep balling at that level for that long.
He traded a currently good player, a role player and the Nets pick (which is big) for a guy who adds a little more star power to a team that already has Hayward.
agree. also more experience and has shown he can hit a clutch shot (which not a lot of people can do)
the nets pick could be huge but at the same time you're talking about another rookie, and they already have plenty of youth
the French guy (forget his name) who they stashed will assume Crowder's role; and Smart will assume Bradley's role as the more defensively oriented starting guard
It makes sense for both teams
Having said that, I'm rooting it fails miserably for both. How will IT play with Lebron. Who holds the ball at the end of the game (can they mask his defensive shortcomings)
I like Kyrie, but Celts just got rid of underdog(s) (IT and Crowder) sort of lost some heart and soul. Can Kyrie provide leadership, stay healthy etc.
JrZyHuStLa wrote:This isn't a horrible trade from Ainge by any means. He did the right thing in selling high on Thomas.Guys who are 5'9" just can't keep balling at that level for that long.
He traded a currently good player, a role player and the Nets pick (which is big) for a guy who adds a little more star power to a team that already has Hayward.
Totally agree. He is essentially a 5'9" shooting guard playing the point because his size dictates it.
There are a lot of nuances to this deal favoring Boston: 1) they unloaded Thomas the year before having to over pay them in free agency; 2) they get a top 10-15 caliber player just entering his prime who is locked up for at least two more years; 3) they received a potentially really good lottery pick from Philly in their Fultz trade so they're still likely a major player in next year's lottery; 4) at some point you have to go for it. Ainge can't just keep storing picks for a rainy day.
I think both teams did OK and I think Boston comes out of this looking really good. But kudos to Cleveland for getting what they got for Irving.
Bonn1997 wrote:Wow, the Knicks didn't overpay for a big name. They didn't give up picks and prospects for someone who would help in the short-term. This Mills/Perry regime appears to be different.
This is what I was thinking. Kudos to Mills/Perry for not starfukking.
Must say I am at least somewhat impressed.
fitzfarm wrote:Honestly what the heck is bostons line up going to look like?
Barnes,blank
Hartford,Morris
Hayward,Tatum
Brown,rosier
Kyrie,smartHahaha is it just me or did the celts downgrade? They just went from a plus defensive team to a minus defensive team. Prob still #2 in the weak east, but no way they get past Cleveland with there current line up
I think Smart starts. You need him to cover Kyrie's D and you need another ball mover on offense.
BigDaddyG wrote:fitzfarm wrote:Honestly what the heck is bostons line up going to look like?
Barnes,blank
Hartford,Morris
Hayward,Tatum
Brown,rosier
Kyrie,smartHahaha is it just me or did the celts downgrade? They just went from a plus defensive team to a minus defensive team. Prob still #2 in the weak east, but no way they get past Cleveland with there current line up
I think Smart starts. You need him to cover Kyrie's D and you need another ball mover on offense.
They can play small ball with Tatum at the 4
There is a time and place for breaking the bank. Doing it now for a
Scoring PG who doesn't pass a lot or play defense is not the right time.
This trade could still fail if IT doesn't pass his physical.
fitzfarm wrote:.... kyrie will not stay in Boston after 2 years. You better believe that jersey boy is going to vomit every time he looks at his green uniform. Kyrie is extremely injury prone,lebron was able to mask kyrie's very bad defense. Now with crowder and Bradley gone the celts might be awful on defense all around.
The base assumption seems to be that Irving will STAY a Celtic. And that might not be the case. He's a young All Star with Olympic and heavy Finals/playoffs experience. He can consistently create his own shot. He's a Nike signature athlete, so the league now has a reason to start jobbing Boston opponents to see the Celtics move forward in playoff series.
Short term, this move helps the Cavs, like for one season. Long term, it could get ugly. Part of the problem or trading Irving is the temptation to sign Thomas to a max deal to justify the trade later. Also with LBJ leaving, there is going to be some cap space open and will any team want to go to a franchise headed by Kevin Love and Tristan Thompson. A Love/Thomas/Thompson team is a treadmill team.
Crowder helps, but the Cavs still need more wing defense to run with the Warriors and they need a RIM PROTECTOR. Thompson plays center by virtue of his contract and thin roster behind him. He's a massively overpaid energy guy who can't space the floor and can only occasionally defend the rim.
Good trade for Boston IMHO. The Fultz pick via the Lakers/Kings means a pick in the loaded West. Brooklyn pick is based on a gutted East where the Nets look way better than last year.
If the Celts wait a little, they can let Irving's trade value restabilize and move him again. Given his age and marketability, they could get a nice haul from him.
Celts just won the lottery, no way the league lets them win it again. If the Celts had a chance at the first pick, sure I can see the criticism, but I just don't see a clearly rigged lottery system helping them out again.
How do you clearly rig ping pong balls?
Bonn1997 wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:I'd say Thomas is a notch above Kyrie but you're right that he might be damaged goods. Thomas is the better scorer. He does more damage from 3s and the FT line. He even got a bunch of MVP votes. Crowder is a very good player too. If Isaiah is healthy, this a tremendous steal for Cleveland.
disagree, though I love Thomas. Bottom line is IT is small. You can negate his awesomeness by putting someone big on him. I think three's a good chance Frank might be able to slow IT down this year. I don't think that's realistic against Kyrie. Plus, IT is going for his big contract at age 30
Were IT's offensive skills negated in more games than Kyrie's? I doubt it.
Yeah, he'll get a huge contract 2 years before Kyrie does. That's somewhat worrisome but as long as Lebron stays in Cleveland, it's not that big a deal since they're not looking for cap space.
Crowder is the exact type of combo forward you want. He is going to be lights out next to Lebron. The Celtics could use Courtney Lee or O'quinn we should be on the phone looking for draft picks. Maybe we could make a deal for Jaylen Brown around Courtney Lee. We need a true SF badly.
Jmpasq wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:I'd say Thomas is a notch above Kyrie but you're right that he might be damaged goods. Thomas is the better scorer. He does more damage from 3s and the FT line. He even got a bunch of MVP votes. Crowder is a very good player too. If Isaiah is healthy, this a tremendous steal for Cleveland.
disagree, though I love Thomas. Bottom line is IT is small. You can negate his awesomeness by putting someone big on him. I think three's a good chance Frank might be able to slow IT down this year. I don't think that's realistic against Kyrie. Plus, IT is going for his big contract at age 30
Were IT's offensive skills negated in more games than Kyrie's? I doubt it.
Yeah, he'll get a huge contract 2 years before Kyrie does. That's somewhat worrisome but as long as Lebron stays in Cleveland, it's not that big a deal since they're not looking for cap space.
Crowder is the exact type of combo forward you want. He is going to be lights out next to Lebron
yeah I'd do Crowder, Frye, and Shumpert for Melo. Maybe you can get them to include picks but I'd do this just for the Melo - Crowder swap.
Bonn1997 wrote:Jmpasq wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:I'd say Thomas is a notch above Kyrie but you're right that he might be damaged goods. Thomas is the better scorer. He does more damage from 3s and the FT line. He even got a bunch of MVP votes. Crowder is a very good player too. If Isaiah is healthy, this a tremendous steal for Cleveland.
disagree, though I love Thomas. Bottom line is IT is small. You can negate his awesomeness by putting someone big on him. I think three's a good chance Frank might be able to slow IT down this year. I don't think that's realistic against Kyrie. Plus, IT is going for his big contract at age 30
Were IT's offensive skills negated in more games than Kyrie's? I doubt it.
Yeah, he'll get a huge contract 2 years before Kyrie does. That's somewhat worrisome but as long as Lebron stays in Cleveland, it's not that big a deal since they're not looking for cap space.
Crowder is the exact type of combo forward you want. He is going to be lights out next to Lebron
yeah I'd do Crowder, Frye, and Shumpert for Melo. Maybe you can get them to include picks but I'd do this just for the Melo - Crowder swap.
Something like that is probably accurate. Id try for them to include their own pick which will be high but better than nothing
