He gets killed by the media and some fans--but he set the best foundation I have seen in 25 years.
Trading for Carmelo with all of our assets to play with a bunch of 36 years old teammates--thats not a foundation--thats shooting all your bullets.
When have we had more quality youthful depth? We were littered with mediocre vets for 20 years.
Years from now he will be looked at as a Sam Hinkie type imo. Trust the process.
Absolutely! 3 things I thought he messed up on.
1. NTC
2. Noah contract
3. Handling of Melo but I think he did that to force Melo to take out the NTC.
Getting yoothier and getting fundamentally sound players is a great way to build a foundation. This has been the most happy I have been about our situation coming into a season since the offseason when we signed Childs and Houston and traded for Larry Johnson. The possibilities are endless and I am getting drunk with orange and blue koolaid. 
Oh you are catching on. But Phil also signed vets to big contracts to play with Melo. Phil looked tied up between youth movement and appeasing to Melo. The media saw this and never looked back.
BRIGGS wrote:He gets killed by the media and some fans--but he set the best foundation I have seen in 25 years.Trading for Carmelo with all of our assets to play with a bunch of 36 years old teammates--thats not a foundation--thats shooting all your bullets.
When have we had more quality youthful depth? We were littered with mediocre vets for 20 years.
BRIGGS wrote:Were going to absolutely stink without a solid pro pg-- melo here or not. Our team is so unbalanced and if we have to rely on baker and Frank--25 wins tops. We have barely changed a bad team. We added a Sg who just takes the place of basically the same thing while we lost our vet pg.
They can play ring around the Rosie with Carmelo who cares-- were going to be a top 10 lottery team again with this roster-- even in the shtty east
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...
Knickoftime wrote:BRIGGS wrote:He gets killed by the media and some fans--but he set the best foundation I have seen in 25 years.Trading for Carmelo with all of our assets to play with a bunch of 36 years old teammates--thats not a foundation--thats shooting all your bullets.
When have we had more quality youthful depth? We were littered with mediocre vets for 20 years.
BRIGGS wrote:Were going to absolutely stink without a solid pro pg-- melo here or not. Our team is so unbalanced and if we have to rely on baker and Frank--25 wins tops. We have barely changed a bad team. We added a Sg who just takes the place of basically the same thing while we lost our vet pg.
They can play ring around the Rosie with Carmelo who cares-- were going to be a top 10 lottery team again with this roster-- even in the shtty east
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...
What does building a foundation of youthful players have to do with this post in July? We added some vets as well to compliment the youth Sessions Kanter Beasley--still has nothing to do with this post? We may stink--Im not sure but it doesnt change the foundation
I agree that Phil and his team have done a very good job on the young men forming the core of the team going forward. These are some quality young men. Phil couldn't get out of husband own way and had trouble with his interpersonal skills but this kids he did right by this franchise.
The culture gets you here. Mistakes are always going to happen. All teams have them.
But the underlying culture base is continued by Mills and perry until otherwise noted.
If Melo don't get the NTC, would he have left? Then we have nothing.
Rose was made gone, and Noah's contract is all remaining. Its not even a max deal.
And........he is playing. He is in camp. He might return to form.
Key word "Might".
Frank in 5 years will only be 24. Then we look back and judge. But he is a solid kid.
BRIGGS wrote:He gets killed by the media and some fans--but he set the best foundation I have seen in 25 years.Trading for Carmelo with all of our assets to play with a bunch of 36 years old teammates--thats not a foundation--thats shooting all your bullets.
When have we had more quality youthful depth? We were littered with mediocre vets for 20 years.
He tried to rebuild and build towards Melo's timeline at the same time. He failed with Melo, but has built a good foundation to rebuild on. The problem is, he was brought here to fix the culture, and made it worse.
Phil made mistakes we all know that BUT he left us in a good position in the future. Didnt trade picks even when pressured,drafted some good young pieces and 1 potential superstar.
Phil was Captain Queeg from the "The Caine Mutiny"...
Decorated war hero(Phil:Championships)......trying instill discipline(Phil: Triangle & Get rid of Melo)...made to look incompetent and borderline insane by calling a ship tribunal over who stole some damn strawberries(Phil: Blasting Melo in the news & Talking Porzingis trade)......ultimately forced to retire(Phil: Fired).
He wasn't allowed to trade a first round pick until 2018 so not trading that pick should not be considered a legacy move He drafted well but it was after he accidenally tanked (3x). The contracts he gave out, his trades, coaching hires, and communication skills were all bad.
StarksEwing1 wrote:Phil made mistakes we all know that BUT he left us in a good position in the future. Didnt trade picks even when pressured,drafted some good young pieces and 1 potential superstar.
That makes it sound like mistakes were a rare exception. They were basically the norm - just with an occasional good decision (KP, Willy) in between. I'm glad he was gone before he had a chance to buy out or waive the player he gave a max contract with NTC to (and maybe even trade KP).
Bonn1997 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Phil made mistakes we all know that BUT he left us in a good position in the future. Didnt trade picks even when pressured,drafted some good young pieces and 1 potential superstar.
That makes it sound like mistakes were a rare exception. They were basically the norm - just with an occasional good decision (KP, Willy) in between. I'm glad he was gone before he had a chance to buy out or waive the player he gave a max contract with NTC to (and maybe even trade KP).
And possibly resign Rose based on a positive exit meeting.
CrushAlot wrote:He wasn't allowed to trade a first round pick until 2018 so not trading that pick should not be considered a legacy move He drafted well but it was after he accidenally tanked (3x). The contracts he gave out, his trades, coaching hires, and communication skills were all bad.
and if phil wasn't fired, Ryan Anderson and his hefty contract would be a Knick right now
StarksEwing1 wrote:Phil made mistakes we all know that BUT he left us in a good position in the future. Didnt trade picks even when pressured,drafted some good young pieces and 1 potential superstar.
I think this narrative is little overstated. Unless my math is wrong, he inherited a team that had already traded its 2014 & 2016 picks, which means 2015 & 2017 were off-limits. The only picks he could've traded during his tenure were starting in 2018.
Someone let me know if I'm wrong (which I may be).
Knickoftime wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Phil made mistakes we all know that BUT he left us in a good position in the future. Didnt trade picks even when pressured,drafted some good young pieces and 1 potential superstar.
I think this narrative is little overstated. Unless my math is wrong, he inherited a team that had already traded its 2014 & 2016 picks, which means 2015 & 2017 were off-limits. The only picks he could've traded during his tenure were starting in 2018.
Someone let me know if I'm wrong (which I may be).
he could have drafted KP to the Magic on draft day for Olidipo and their pick they used for Mario Henzogoma (sp?). As they Knicks were a lottery team a draft swap would have had value to other teams as well. Phil should get credit for drafting well and bringing in some young guys (including Langston Galloway). There were plenty of damaging options available surely prior regimes would have pounced on.
Problem with the title is nobody knows what Phil's path was. Some of the moves Phil made that were bad had some logic behind them. To succeed with Melo they needed another alpha scorer and they needed a defender.... thus the Rose trade. He took a swing. It was a bad miss.
Phil phucked things up just good enough to give Mills and Perry a nowhere to go but up. If that is what is enabling them to go through with a legit rebuild than great job Phil. Looks like we got him out at the right time.
fishmike wrote:Knickoftime wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Phil made mistakes we all know that BUT he left us in a good position in the future. Didnt trade picks even when pressured,drafted some good young pieces and 1 potential superstar.
I think this narrative is little overstated. Unless my math is wrong, he inherited a team that had already traded its 2014 & 2016 picks, which means 2015 & 2017 were off-limits. The only picks he could've traded during his tenure were starting in 2018.
Someone let me know if I'm wrong (which I may be).
he could have drafted KP to the Magic on draft day for Olidipo and their pick they used for Mario Henzogoma (sp?). As they Knicks were a lottery team a draft swap would have had value to other teams as well. Phil should get credit for drafting well and bringing in some young guys (including Langston Galloway). There were plenty of damaging options available surely prior regimes would have pounced on.Problem with the title is nobody knows what Phil's path was. Some of the moves Phil made that were bad had some logic behind them. To succeed with Melo they needed another alpha scorer and they needed a defender.... thus the Rose trade. He took a swing. It was a bad miss.
Phil phucked things up just good enough to give Mills and Perry a nowhere to go but up. If that is what is enabling them to go through with a legit rebuild than great job Phil. Looks like we got him out at the right time.
+1. Good points.
Knickoftime wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Phil made mistakes we all know that BUT he left us in a good position in the future. Didnt trade picks even when pressured,drafted some good young pieces and 1 potential superstar.
I think this narrative is little overstated. Unless my math is wrong, he inherited a team that had already traded its 2014 & 2016 picks, which means 2015 & 2017 were off-limits. The only picks he could've traded during his tenure were starting in 2018.
Someone let me know if I'm wrong (which I may be).
For me it's not about Phil not trading picks. It's what he did with his picks and UDFA's. Phil was a train wreck in dealing with Melo and his Timeline. Phil going has allowed the good he did accomplish with the youth to be improved on by the franchise going forward. They still have to deal with the Noah deal but Phil didn't leave the cupboard bare.
Question....How can anyone be on the right path when every decision made was based on the F..in TRIANGLE? Sighhhhh.
You guys are talking bout draft picks, signings, NTC clause? Who cares? Every Prez can't bat 1000. However, NO Prez makes all his player, coaching decisions based on an antiquated system which he tries to force feed, to all his player's and coaches, regarsless of their natural strengths or styles.
Biggest issue I had with Phil is that he was not here to build a winning team. He was here to expand his Triangle legacy.
Phil get the worst possible cards given and then worst possible flop, turn and river...
And still managed to have team in the position to succeed.
This called a good Poker but not many understood.
That's why most of the player are suckers... which is how it should be.
