Knicks · I'm not a long term buyer of RJ's high level potential/talent (page 8)

Jmpasq wrote:

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ESOMKnicks wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:
I want to go after Otto Porter this off-season. Perfect SF for this team. Great defender and shooter. Fits the team like a glove. Teams will struggle to score 100 against that lineup. We would be an elite PG away from causing a ton of problems for good teams. It looks like we are finally building an identity I hope we draft and sign players that further it.

Looks similar to Marcus Morris, only younger. If he comes at the same price, why not?

He’s a better fit than Morris because he doesn’t invade Randles space. Porter would be a great pickup.

I just wonder what he will cost. He got a max deal last time. I would be against paying himwhat he gets now. He is the ultimate 3 and D wing.

He clearly isn't getting max money again. I think $12-$15M is about right, but it only takes one desperate team to muck things up.

$12?

Jerian Grant just got a 3 year $60M deal. Marcus Morris got 4 years @ $16M per. Gallo got $20M per. Bogdan Bogdanović $18M per.

You are not getting him at anything less than $17M per and $17M will be on the low side IMHO

I think he will get 20 a year. He is worth it but that means we have to get our PG in this draft

If he gets $20 mill per, than that deal will have some heavy incentives or will be like two years.

martin wrote:

I like the Mismatch podcast, for a non-knick podcast, they can be fair when it comes to the Knicks and don't always jump on the anti-knicks bandwagon

I don’t know how anyone can label either of these guys anythng but successful unless you factor intangible hype on Zion or impatience/expectation on RJ. Buy into the media machine or think for yourself.

For Zion the league and NOLA were quick to hand him the keys to the franchise in the wake of AD’s departure and heap praise before earned. Zion is not Jordan or Lebron. He is the love child of Barkley and Karl Malone. Both had great outside shots but lets give the kid some time to refine his rather than contrast to the aforementioned HOF’s.
Zion only has talent like 5 3pters this season so lets not even discuss “stretch”.
What is the issue is “Stretch marks”? As often discussed is durability and the stress of 280lbs on knees and other joints. He is not fat, he is a large human capable of flying. Seems logical they are trying to keep him more on the ground and prolong his professional lifespan. Not sure how you reduce muscle mass as this kid is prone to having. IM not sure anyone knows what to do with this kid as he is a bit of an anomoly. He s Lawrence Taylor who can fly. A wobbling hulk who is a physiologist greatest challenge.

Now contrast to RJ Barrett at 20 who is a near perfect basketball specimen. Lacks only freakish lose quickness that was Kobe or the thru the ceiling explosive power of Vince Carter. His form so ingrained he looks stiff. To the rim he does not jump over people but body control and strength at a near elite level. Now say “At age 20” and while we are not giddy because we are a damaged fan base dare to say this kid is a dream. He is not flashy, does not preen, keeps his cool, seems to be taking Thibs shit well, and we see growth spurts actually. Work ethic? Check. Conditioning? Check. Good family/support system? Check.

Comparisons? Body type? Old school Oscar Robertson perhaps? Oscar had great power and body control when he broke in the league after 4 years of college. The Big “O” was ahead of his time and not saying RJ is evolutionary like Lebron or Jordan.
Venture to say one cannot effectively put a label on him and be taken seriously unless they are looking for attention.

Given hindsight one has to take Zion as the top pick given the potential and ticket sales he brings. Perhaps after 5 years we can be objective. I do take Morant over RJ given the rarity of great PG’s and the effect he brings. He gets an easier pass in Memphis than he would have here. As for RJ a Knick? Damn straight me happy we had the 3 and we had the chance to draft him. It was an easy pick. No genius GM wonderment applied here.

smackeddog wrote:

martin wrote:

I like the Mismatch podcast, for a non-knick podcast, they can be fair when it comes to the Knicks and don't always jump on the anti-knicks bandwagon

They're OK. But the premise for this segment was ridiculous.

Nalod wrote:Zion a bust at 22pts and 7 rebs per?? This is total of 36 game career?
At the same time RJ has played 74 games. Last year 15 pts to now 17 and rebs from 5 to 7 in this young 18 game season.
FT .614% to .764%. One might even find over last season it improved as the season went.
He is 20.

I don’t know how anyone can label either of these guys anythng but successful unless you factor intangible hype on Zion or impatience/expectation on RJ. Buy into the media machine or think for yourself.

For Zion the league and NOLA were quick to hand him the keys to the franchise in the wake of AD’s departure and heap praise before earned. Zion is not Jordan or Lebron. He is the love child of Barkley and Karl Malone. Both had great outside shots but lets give the kid some time to refine his rather than contrast to the aforementioned HOF’s.
Zion only has talent like 5 3pters this season so lets not even discuss “stretch”.
What is the issue is “Stretch marks”? As often discussed is durability and the stress of 280lbs on knees and other joints. He is not fat, he is a large human capable of flying. Seems logical they are trying to keep him more on the ground and prolong his professional lifespan. Not sure how you reduce muscle mass as this kid is prone to having. IM not sure anyone knows what to do with this kid as he is a bit of an anomoly. He s Lawrence Taylor who can fly. A wobbling hulk who is a physiologist greatest challenge.

Now contrast to RJ Barrett at 20 who is a near perfect basketball specimen. Lacks only freakish lose quickness that was Kobe or the thru the ceiling explosive power of Vince Carter. His form so ingrained he looks stiff. To the rim he does not jump over people but body control and strength at a near elite level. Now say “At age 20” and while we are not giddy because we are a damaged fan base dare to say this kid is a dream. He is not flashy, does not preen, keeps his cool, seems to be taking Thibs shit well, and we see growth spurts actually. Work ethic? Check. Conditioning? Check. Good family/support system? Check.

Comparisons? Body type? Old school Oscar Robertson perhaps? Oscar had great power and body control when he broke in the league after 4 years of college. The Big “O” was ahead of his time and not saying RJ is evolutionary like Lebron or Jordan.
Venture to say one cannot effectively put a label on him and be taken seriously unless they are looking for attention.

Given hindsight one has to take Zion as the top pick given the potential and ticket sales he brings. Perhaps after 5 years we can be objective. I do take Morant over RJ given the rarity of great PG’s and the effect he brings. He gets an easier pass in Memphis than he would have here. As for RJ a Knick? Damn straight me happy we had the 3 and we had the chance to draft him. It was an easy pick. No genius GM wonderment applied here.

Not sure who called Zion a bust. The video acknowledged he is an offensive force. They also indicated that this year he showing to be extremely lazy on D and when he does show effort, his D is still bad.

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BigDaddyG wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ESOMKnicks wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:
I want to go after Otto Porter this off-season. Perfect SF for this team. Great defender and shooter. Fits the team like a glove. Teams will struggle to score 100 against that lineup. We would be an elite PG away from causing a ton of problems for good teams. It looks like we are finally building an identity I hope we draft and sign players that further it.

Looks similar to Marcus Morris, only younger. If he comes at the same price, why not?

He’s a better fit than Morris because he doesn’t invade Randles space. Porter would be a great pickup.

I just wonder what he will cost. He got a max deal last time. I would be against paying himwhat he gets now. He is the ultimate 3 and D wing.

He clearly isn't getting max money again. I think $12-$15M is about right, but it only takes one desperate team to muck things up.

$12?

Jerian Grant just got a 3 year $60M deal. Marcus Morris got 4 years @ $16M per. Gallo got $20M per. Bogdan Bogdanović $18M per.

You are not getting him at anything less than $17M per and $17M will be on the low side IMHO

I think he will get 20 a year. He is worth it but that means we have to get our PG in this draft

If he gets $20 mill per, than that deal will have some heavy incentives or will be like two years.

On the RJ arc he's looking better all the time. I like the upside based on age/IQ/physical stuff. We will see... he may just be good and we end up overpaying resigning him because we dont gauge his talent right. The good news is we have plenty of time with him (unless we use send him to play with his best buddy Zion in an Ingram trade )

RJ is 20. Its year 2. 17ppg, 7rebs and playing huge minutes while the team is winning some games. 3pt shooting has been terrible but the improvement at the line is very encouraging. He plays bigger than already good size down low. This is the thing with building... some of these guys take a few years. Jimmy Butler was year 3 and 24 years old before he really started to pop and that 13/5 but he was a full time starter (this was under Thibs). Dont forget to enjoy the journey

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He plays hard. Guy also has incredible stamina

Chandler wrote:Has anyone seen RJ sweat or be out there huffing and puffing?

He plays hard. Guy also has incredible stamina

I feel like Burk kills his touches, I like him better next to Bullock

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foosballnick wrote:

Nalod wrote:Zion a bust at 22pts and 7 rebs per?? This is total of 36 game career?
At the same time RJ has played 74 games. Last year 15 pts to now 17 and rebs from 5 to 7 in this young 18 game season.
FT .614% to .764%. One might even find over last season it improved as the season went.
He is 20.

I don’t know how anyone can label either of these guys anythng but successful unless you factor intangible hype on Zion or impatience/expectation on RJ. Buy into the media machine or think for yourself.

For Zion the league and NOLA were quick to hand him the keys to the franchise in the wake of AD’s departure and heap praise before earned. Zion is not Jordan or Lebron. He is the love child of Barkley and Karl Malone. Both had great outside shots but lets give the kid some time to refine his rather than contrast to the aforementioned HOF’s.
Zion only has talent like 5 3pters this season so lets not even discuss “stretch”.
What is the issue is “Stretch marks”? As often discussed is durability and the stress of 280lbs on knees and other joints. He is not fat, he is a large human capable of flying. Seems logical they are trying to keep him more on the ground and prolong his professional lifespan. Not sure how you reduce muscle mass as this kid is prone to having. IM not sure anyone knows what to do with this kid as he is a bit of an anomoly. He s Lawrence Taylor who can fly. A wobbling hulk who is a physiologist greatest challenge.

Now contrast to RJ Barrett at 20 who is a near perfect basketball specimen. Lacks only freakish lose quickness that was Kobe or the thru the ceiling explosive power of Vince Carter. His form so ingrained he looks stiff. To the rim he does not jump over people but body control and strength at a near elite level. Now say “At age 20” and while we are not giddy because we are a damaged fan base dare to say this kid is a dream. He is not flashy, does not preen, keeps his cool, seems to be taking Thibs shit well, and we see growth spurts actually. Work ethic? Check. Conditioning? Check. Good family/support system? Check.

Comparisons? Body type? Old school Oscar Robertson perhaps? Oscar had great power and body control when he broke in the league after 4 years of college. The Big “O” was ahead of his time and not saying RJ is evolutionary like Lebron or Jordan.
Venture to say one cannot effectively put a label on him and be taken seriously unless they are looking for attention.

Given hindsight one has to take Zion as the top pick given the potential and ticket sales he brings. Perhaps after 5 years we can be objective. I do take Morant over RJ given the rarity of great PG’s and the effect he brings. He gets an easier pass in Memphis than he would have here. As for RJ a Knick? Damn straight me happy we had the 3 and we had the chance to draft him. It was an easy pick. No genius GM wonderment applied here.

Not sure who called Zion a bust. The video acknowledged he is an offensive force. They also indicated that this year he showing to be extremely lazy on D and when he does show effort, his D is still bad.

Zion with all that weight on him will be a couple steps slow on D. And he’s not tall or long enough to be a rim protector

Chandler wrote:Has anyone seen RJ sweat or be out there huffing and puffing?

He plays hard. Guy also has incredible stamina

His conditioning is excellent. He already has an nba body at 20 years old and plays 40 minutes per night like it’s nothing

smackeddog wrote:Can’t help but feel martin started this thread in an attempt to play the stock markets, reddit style- start a thread to get everyone to sell their RJ stock, then swoop in and buy it all at a low price, then sit back and watch the price soar. He’s rich at last!

DUDE! Giving away my secrets

smackeddog wrote:Can’t help but feel martin started this thread in an attempt to play the stock markets, reddit style- start a thread to get everyone to sell their RJ stock, then swoop in and buy it all at a low price, then sit back and watch the price soar. He’s rich at last!

Thats ok and RJ has had stagnant moments which cause pause. IQ will do the same and cause doubts.
Being knick fans have given us little confidence to bridge the concept of "rebuilding" vs. the reality.
One can put Randle who came to us still young and tainted by nobody wanting to pay him. The Spinovers and losing will further the fan doubt.
KP, Frank, Dennis and perhaps Knox are firmly in the doubt box.
RJ game seems to rise without a "breakout" but a near consistant up with few and nearly no drastic setbacks. Kid said he was built for this, he is keeping his word. Few teens come in to the league at 6-7 from teh wing to play this strong inside. That outside shot keeps getting better shyt will get easier for him.

RJ is blossoming before us. The numbers he is putting up are gaudy. I love his personality and the workhorse mentality.

There are just some hints of "what the heck was that" that a natural talent wouldn't do. RJ has been coached for a long time. His dad was a professional. He has had ample time to solidify a base set of skills. And yet the shooting is still off and he needs to work on it in a way that suggests he isn't really a natural shooter. He is also not a natural passer. And that is not to say that he can't be a good shooter or a good passer, he will work on those things and they will get better.

It's the high end version of things that I don't see playing out. I hope I am wrong.

But looking at SF recently like Hayward, George and Brown and their progression it’s hard not to be excited with what he could become. He’s an All Star in the future there is no doubt, at his age what he’s doing is spectacular. When him and Randle play well we usually win which is a testament in itself.

He’s just going to work himself into the best possible version of himself.