Knicks · Keep Burks in unit 1 (update 11/29: Thibs made it so) (page 1)

U can use kemba as a 15-18 min sg off the bench— maybe iqs old role

Butch’s d alone is too good to pass on. We needed an injection of energy as I suspected.

Also a lot of prop to sims last night. He’s gonna be good but can play now too. He was a defensive X factor last night

Big props to Burks. Yes, it was a team win, but Burks continues to show he's the engine that makes this team work. He's the ultimate glue guy that every successful team should have. We need more players like him. A professonal who plays with the same energy, regardless if he starts or comes off the bench. or DNP. He's had a few of those last year, and still played hard. Guards 3 positions. "He's as valuable to this club now as D Rose was last year." And Burks showed this last year as, but he had Bullock in the way. And Bullock was our starter.....This year, Burks needs to be our starter. Either for Kemba or EF.

Most say Kemba, but that will leave 3 rotational guards under 6'3 on the bench, ready to play. Second unit lineups might look small. But you can't play Kemba, Rose and IQ at the same time. Thats the negative for moving Burks up and Kemba down. And paying EF like a starter, just to make him come off the bench, doesn't look good on the FO. But somehow Burks should start.

blkexec wrote:Big props to Burks. Yes, it was a team win, but Burks continues to show he's the engine that makes this team work. He's the ultimate glue guy that every successful team should have. We need more players like him. A professonal who plays with the same energy, regardless if he starts or comes off the bench. or DNP. He's had a few of those last year, and still played hard. Guards 3 positions. "He's as valuable to this club now as D Rose was last year." And Burks showed this last year as, but he had Bullock in the way. And Bullock was our starter.....This year, Burks needs to be our starter. Either for Kemba or EF.

Most say Kemba, but that will leave 3 rotational guards under 6'3 on the bench, ready to play. Second unit lineups might look small. But you can't play Kemba, Rose and IQ at the same time. Thats the negative for moving Burks up and Kemba down. And playing EF like a starter, just to make him come off the bench, doesn't look good on the FO. But somehow Burks should start.

yeah he's coming off the bench, and he always ends up playing big because he's usually on the floor with IQ/Rose.

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:Big props to Burks. Yes, it was a team win, but Burks continues to show he's the engine that makes this team work. He's the ultimate glue guy that every successful team should have. We need more players like him. A professonal who plays with the same energy, regardless if he starts or comes off the bench. or DNP. He's had a few of those last year, and still played hard. Guards 3 positions. "He's as valuable to this club now as D Rose was last year." And Burks showed this last year as, but he had Bullock in the way. And Bullock was our starter.....This year, Burks needs to be our starter. Either for Kemba or EF.

Most say Kemba, but that will leave 3 rotational guards under 6'3 on the bench, ready to play. Second unit lineups might look small. But you can't play Kemba, Rose and IQ at the same time. Thats the negative for moving Burks up and Kemba down. And playing paying EF like a starter, just to make him come off the bench, doesn't look good on the FO. But somehow Burks should start.

yeah he's coming off the bench, and he always ends up playing big because he's usually on the floor with IQ/Rose.

What about something like this...

C: Mitchell Robinson.
PF: Obi Toppin.
SF: Julius Randle.
2G: R.J. Barrett.
PG: Immanuel Quickley.

Bench:

C: Taj Gibson.
PF: Nerlens Noel.
SF: Evan Fournier.
SG: Kemba Walker.
PG: Derrick Rose.

No. Our backup unit is no longer as exciting; but that starting 5 looks awesome (imo).

How can you disrupt you bench chemistry to fix you starters chemistry.

I know that's what THIBS is struggling with, we have 4 starters in the line up that have been starting there entire careers.

The obvious person to take out of the starting line up is Mitch, Im not seeing any reason he can't play with the bench, especially when all you need him for is about 20 min per game

Mitch, Randle, Barrett, Fournier and Quickley starting
Rose, Walker, Burks, Toppin and Noel off the bench

Quickley brings more to the starting lineup and this keeps the balance in the second unit.

I think the main problems for us is playstyle and fit. We are playing like .500 but could be better if we played players who actually complement each other.

For Instance,
Noel already proved he can play well with Randle and is our best defensive big. So he should start.
RJ plays better in transition he should play with the bench.
Burks can play well with Randle so he also should start.

I used to think we needed to keep Rose off the bench to pair with Obi but with IQ and Obi developing chemistry we can now have Rose start. Rose starting gives the starting lineup someone who can control the offense keep us from ISOing too much and Break down the D.

Off the bench Kemba's D don't hurt too much and if he is not playing well Grimes/McBride can get some time. If Kemba is getting targeted on defense too much in a game we can put in Grimes or McBride depending on if you need someone to guard a quick guard or big guard.

I want IQ running PG off bench because he pushes the ball and most of our bench thrive off high pace.

Starter would be
Rose - Burks - EF - Randle - Noel

Bench
IQ - Kemba - RJ - Obi - Mitch

Reserves - Will be used based on specific needs
McBride - Grimes - Taj - Sims

Same team with no trades but people are playing with the teammates that best fit their games. Just my thoughts on how things should be but it really does not matter because Thibs will never try anything new.

knicks1248 wrote:How can you disrupt you bench chemistry to fix you starters chemistry.

I know that's what THIBS is struggling with, we have 4 starters in the line up that have been starting there entire careers.

The obvious person to take out of the starting line up is Mitch, Im not seeing any reason he can't play with the bench, especially when all you need him for is about 20 min per game

i don't understand why people want to protect the bench when all throughout professional sports players play themselves into the starting line by developing into better players.

And how is Mitch the obvious choice?

Kemba is the obvious choice- our slow starts are from the player running the offense, which is Kemba and Randle.

We've seen Burks actually run the team nicely, and now honestly IQ is probably the best PG on the roster and should be starting.

NYKMentality wrote:What about something like this...

C: Mitchell Robinson.
PF: Obi Toppin.
SF: Julius Randle.
2G: R.J. Barrett.
PG: Immanuel Quickley.

Bench:

C: Taj Gibson.
PF: Nerlens Noel.
SF: Evan Fournier.
SG: Kemba Walker.
PG: Derrick Rose.

No. Our backup unit is no longer as exciting; but that starting 5 looks awesome (imo).

This is a really bad combination.

Randle is by no means SF and today’s NBA. If he needs to be moved from the PF position, he is C rather than SF. And before we move in that direction, Obi isn’t SF either. As for positions, the same goes for him as it does for Randle.

Noel is by no means a PF, so he can possibly play that position only if another big is shooter, which Taj is not.

And what about Burks? Why isn't he in these fives?

I rewatched 3rd quarter vs Hawks and Burks was awesome. Its something he can do on either units.
The game was won on defense and shutting down ATL in the stretch. Cuz sure as shit we scored 2 pts in the final 3 min.
Sims looked good becuase he did not look bad.

Capella is an interesting study. Very active on offense as teams have to put a body on him and he opens things up. Mitch does this in the past. not this year. not yet.

ATL had a 7 game win streak but but did not look good. They have injuries too.

Is it me or does Randle seem to fall back on all his shots now? Just optics. He fades when not needing? Has to be somethig coaches pick up if its an issue.

Burks was our hero. THat don’t happen every game and its not reasonable to think he is “Breaking out”.
I love that we got a lead in the 3rd and kept it. Good effort all around. That means we change it all up?

Thibs has used Burks as a band aid last season. Kemba sat 2nd of back to back. Drose is not durable. This is our reality for a while. If not healthy we have issues. IQ is not ready for PG prime time and McBride would be the logical choice but doubt he is ready if he ever will be.

Super happy we did not land to .500.

xavier wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:What about something like this...

C: Mitchell Robinson.
PF: Obi Toppin.
SF: Julius Randle.
2G: R.J. Barrett.
PG: Immanuel Quickley.

Bench:

C: Taj Gibson.
PF: Nerlens Noel.
SF: Evan Fournier.
SG: Kemba Walker.
PG: Derrick Rose.

No. Our backup unit is no longer as exciting; but that starting 5 looks awesome (imo).

This is a really bad combination.

Randle is by no means SF and today’s NBA. If he needs to be moved from the PF position, he is C rather than SF. And before we move in that direction, Obi isn’t SF either. As for positions, the same goes for him as it does for Randle.

Noel is by no means a PF, so he can possibly play that position only if another big is shooter, which Taj is not.

And what about Burks? Why isn't he in these fives?

I guess Burks starting in atl and leading the knicks to a surprising victory didn’t impress him. If we learned anything from thibs last year, take a look how he managed ELF time, when it was clear than rose should start. Kemba is the new ELF. Rose is Rose. So thibs is treating this starting 5 similar to last years starting 5. The main difference to me is EF vs Bullock. EF is having a difficult time playing consistently with this starting unit because of several reasons.

On offense EF is a well rounded player but thibs, Randle and others are looking for him to replace bullock, and just be a catch and shoot player ONLY…but that’s not EF. EF plays better when he has room to operate on offense….as a dribble drive player, which is something he does a lot when the defense closed out on him. Vs bullock who doesn’t like putting the ball on the floor, will either keep shooting or pass and wait for the next shot. They are 2 different players on both ends of the court.

EF can show his entire skill set with the 2nd unit. Burks is a better defender and his catch and shoot game is more consistent than EF. I think this move is less controversial since it helps your new high priced free agent to impact the game more on offense. When EF starts killing, u can think about moving him back into the starting lineup for either Kemba or Burks. Since Burks is a utility guy, it will not shake his confidence. Or Kemba by that time would understand this move is best for the team and he will except a backup role.

This keeps the only think working for us in tacked, which is our precious 2nd unit. I like how Rose, IQ and Obi play together. Rose is a better passer for big to me. Rose and Obi was huge for us last year and now this year Obi has 2 reliable play makers in the 2nd unit. This also allows Kemba to play out this feel good story and keep his confidence for the playoffs where he will naturally step up like most vets. Keeping Kemba as a starter reduces negative media attention. when Kemba is not playing well, we blame it on needed rest and sit him. This is when you experiment with IQ starting and let his play do the talking. I think starting Kemba isn’t the problem right now…..it’s how long do you leave him in is what thibs needs to adjust. I say yank Kemba early like he did ELF last year. Reduces locker room tension. Remember this is just 1 of many small moves to make b4 doing anything too drastic.

Looking at the players we have at our disposal, we again have an imbalance. We have a crowd at the PG position where Kemba, Rose, IQ and Burks (although IQ and Burks are not exclusively playmakers) all play some minutes. Of course it would be better for the team to have a real first option for that position, a floor general who would play 30+ minutes and lead the team. We all know that, but we have what we have. What I regret most is that in that crowd McBride has no chance of getting any minutes.

Then following on to these players we have wings RJ, Fournier and Grimes (for Grimes unfortunately the same is true as for McBride). As I wrote, neither IQ nor Burks are just playmakers. Burks is primarily SG to me, and IQ is a combo guard. Randle, Obi, Mitch, Noel, Ty and Simms are all bigs, meaning PF / C.

Which leaves us without a type of player that’s a big advantage if you have one, and that’s a big athletic wing. I'm talking about players like Kawhi, George or Tatum...neither RJ nor Fournier are that type of player. I'm not talking about the level of quality here, but about the skillset or the way they play.

BRIGGS wrote:U can use kemba as a 15-18 min sg off the bench— maybe iqs old role

Butch’s d alone is too good to pass on. We needed an injection of energy as I suspected.

Also a lot of prop to sims last night. He’s gonna be good but can play now too. He was a defensive X factor last night

Coaches do not coach based on fans wet dreams. Have none of you so-called faithful learned anything from last year? Thibs is not going to make knee-jerk moves. This also shows you do not understand Burks game. He is a Lou Williams type that is best as the first option in a second unit. He definitely is not someone you want to turn into a facilitating PG. Thibs will continue to use Burks in the second unit and will only play Burks as a PG when Rose and Kemba are hurt.

blkexec wrote:

xavier wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:What about something like this...

C: Mitchell Robinson.
PF: Obi Toppin.
SF: Julius Randle.
2G: R.J. Barrett.
PG: Immanuel Quickley.

Bench:

C: Taj Gibson.
PF: Nerlens Noel.
SF: Evan Fournier.
SG: Kemba Walker.
PG: Derrick Rose.

No. Our backup unit is no longer as exciting; but that starting 5 looks awesome (imo).

This is a really bad combination.

Randle is by no means SF and today’s NBA. If he needs to be moved from the PF position, he is C rather than SF. And before we move in that direction, Obi isn’t SF either. As for positions, the same goes for him as it does for Randle.

Noel is by no means a PF, so he can possibly play that position only if another big is shooter, which Taj is not.

And what about Burks? Why isn't he in these fives?

I guess Burks starting in atl and leading the knicks to a surprising victory didn’t impress him. If we learned anything from thibs last year, take a look how he managed ELF time, when it was clear than rose should start. Kemba is the new ELF. Rose is Rose. So thibs is treating this starting 5 similar to last years starting 5. The main difference to me is EF vs Bullock. EF is having a difficult time playing consistently with this starting unit because of several reasons.

On offense EF is a well rounded player but thibs, Randle and others are looking for him to replace bullock, and just be a catch and shoot player ONLY…but that’s not EF. EF plays better when he has room to operate on offense….as a dribble drive player, which is something he does a lot when the defense closed out on him. Vs bullock who doesn’t like putting the ball on the floor, will either keep shooting or pass and wait for the next shot. They are 2 different players on both ends of the court.

EF can show his entire skill set with the 2nd unit. Burks is a better defender and his catch and shoot game is more consistent than EF. I think this move is less controversial since it helps your new high priced free agent to impact the game more on offense. When EF starts killing, u can think about moving him back into the starting lineup for either Kemba or Burks. Since Burks is a utility guy, it will not shake his confidence. Or Kemba by that time would understand this move is best for the team and he will except a backup role.

This keeps the only think working for us in tacked, which is our precious 2nd unit. I like how Rose, IQ and Obi play together. Rose is a better passer for big to me. Rose and Obi was huge for us last year and now this year Obi has 2 reliable play makers in the 2nd unit. This also allows Kemba to play out this feel good story and keep his confidence for the playoffs where he will naturally step up like most vets. Keeping Kemba as a starter reduces negative media attention. when Kemba is not playing well, we blame it on needed rest and sit him. This is when you experiment with IQ starting and let his play do the talking. I think starting Kemba isn’t the problem right now…..it’s how long do you leave him in is what thibs needs to adjust. I say yank Kemba early like he did ELF last year. Reduces locker room tension. Remember this is just 1 of many small moves to make b4 doing anything too drastic.

Good take and appreciate the effort.
I thought I read that previously EF in Orlando was used more as a catch and shoot and Thibs wanted him to penetrate more. If so, it could be why he is not judicious or not sharp YET.
Thibs is a play thru it to you get it right kind of coach. Keep drilling, keep at it, keep until they get it right. I could be wrong.

Missing Bullock. Not really. This is about RJ as the future at the 3 and his upside. Reggie was not going to start.

I love what Alec did in the third qtr vs. Atl. But its not enough to change the fabric and the future.

Welp...

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MaTT4281 wrote:Welp...

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It's a good thing. Don't know if Kemba hurt or what but get that knee right.

Nalod wrote:I rewatched 3rd quarter vs Hawks and Burks was awesome. Its something he can do on either units.
The game was won on defense and shutting down ATL in the stretch. Cuz sure as shit we scored 2 pts in the final 3 min.
Sims looked good becuase he did not look bad.

Capella is an interesting study. Very active on offense as teams have to put a body on him and he opens things up. Mitch does this in the past. not this year. not yet.

ATL had a 7 game win streak but but did not look good. They have injuries too.

Is it me or does Randle seem to fall back on all his shots now? Just optics. He fades when not needing? Has to be somethig coaches pick up if its an issue.

Burks was our hero. THat don’t happen every game and its not reasonable to think he is “Breaking out”.
I love that we got a lead in the 3rd and kept it. Good effort all around. That means we change it all up?

Thibs has used Burks as a band aid last season. Kemba sat 2nd of back to back. Drose is not durable. This is our reality for a while. If not healthy we have issues. IQ is not ready for PG prime time and McBride would be the logical choice but doubt he is ready if he ever will be.

Super happy we did not land to .500.

I notice the Randle lean too. Last year he was straight up and down. His form doesn't seem as consistent this year.

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martin wrote:

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