Knicks · Bullish on Deuce (page 17)

Clean @ 3/9/2022 4:08 PM
Jimbo5 wrote:With the limited minutes given to Deuce, its nice to see his impact on defense, that alone should be enough to give him consistent minutes moving forward(i hope). Im not worried about his offense, he has shown that he can light it up in the GLeague.i know thats just the GLeague but putting up monster numbers should indicate that there is some skills present in this kid.just wait until the nba game starts slowing down for deuce, im hoping we can see more out of him.

McBride wont score or control the offense in the NBA like the G League because he plays 2 different roles. In the NBA thibs plays him as a SG and places him in the corner. In the G League he is the PG controlling the offense.

Clean @ 3/9/2022 4:18 PM
Vmart wrote:You know Thibs f’ed the season up. Our weakness this year has been perimeter defense. Kemba couldn’t guard a statue and you have Fournier who is awful on defense. He didn’t even like Cam Reddish trade. I have to say Thibs has been incompetent it took a sit down with management and WWW to call him out to get more reps for young players like Cam and McBride.

I find it funny there are people who defend Thibs when he literally put out the WORST defending lineup in NBA history for a majority of the season and people wonder why this is a lost season. They love to make excuses and completely ignore his lack of good offensive/defensive schemes and any kind of adjustments. He buries Grimes and McBride on the bench and people say Thibs knows more than you do and they are probably not NBA ready. When they finally get a chance they make an impact instantly. Who cares if he is a 2nd round pick. If he can help the team win from day one you give him a chance to do that.

Vmart @ 3/9/2022 5:06 PM
fishmike wrote:
Vmart wrote:You know Thibs f’ed the season up. Our weakness this year has been perimeter defense. Kemba couldn’t guard a statue and you have Fournier who is awful on defense. He didn’t even like Cam Reddish trade. I have to say Thibs has been incompetent it took a sit down with management and WWW to call him out to get more reps for young players like Cam and McBride.
so you mean WWW said stop playing the guys we just spent $90mm on and start giving the end of the bench guys more minutes? Good work.

Did WWW also tell him to put Grimes in the rotation? Asking for a friend

WWW told him to coach the team, develop players and not play the players based on contracts. And Covid made Thibs play Grimes otherwise he would be riding the bench.

blkexec @ 3/10/2022 2:30 AM
NYKBocker wrote:
martin wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Vmart wrote:
martin wrote:

I think we are all glad he is playing. But how incompetent does Thibs look for not playing the kid sooner. Who know Knicks might be legitimately in the playoff picture had he played earlier and his development process would have been light years ahead.

he scored 5 points and had 9 fouls in the last 2 games... yeah man, I dont know how Thibs could look more incompetent. Prolly woulda made the finals last year if Thibs played Pinson over Elfrid as well. Hopefully we can just rise above Thib's incompetence and enjoy better basketball in the upcoming years

Look, there are a lot of reasons to question Thibs' competence this season. Not giving Duece starter, or even regular rotation, minutes isn't one of them. Especially with the push to give IQ experience at the point. But not playing him at all, even in garbage time was questionable. We have two injury prone point guards and Tom had to know the time would lokely come when Duece would be called on to contribute. Don't need to see a gassed Burks masquerade as a PG when the game is lost. He doesn't need the experience.

It's a fair statement but then you are quibbling over playing a guy garbage minutes. Are players getting that much in those last 2-5 minutes when the game is already out of hand that we care that much?

Maybe some do but I don't think anyone really cares.

points per game is really not a barometer for me when it comes to a player being in the rotation. I look at what contributions he gives to help the team win a basketball game. Hi defensive tenacity and skills is what I am ecstatic about. His 3 point shooting is very good and he can drive to the basket. Thibs should have been playing him at PG a long time ago.

THE DEUCE IS LOOSE…..ABOUT DAMN TIME

Everybody gave me slack when I said deuce should’ve been in the rotation and eventually a starter as the 3rd string PG with Kemba and rose out. But I was equally happy to see IQ get those PG mins.

At the draft I said deuce is instantly our best PG defender. You don’t need much to impact a game, when you can play lock down defense. Spreads like wild fire across the team. This is a testament to our excellent draft of two way players in grimes and deuce.

The only fault the FO did was pay Kemba and Fournier when we should’ve went full youth from the start. Fournier maybe but didn’t need Kemba. But now we get to see what we look like and the potential in IQ and deuce. They are similar to rose and IQ last year. Add Rose and that’s a nice 3 point guard rotation. Move Burks back to SG/SF off the bench with Fournier or cam.

As always we make a late push. But thibs has to be held accountable for his lack of rotation adjustments. He dropped Kemba too early. But that’s when he should’ve moved IQ to the point and deuce / Burks off the bench. Thibs had plenty of time to make that shift. Now it’s late in the season. 🤦‍♂️ Can we do anything right? We don’t even know how to tank. 😂

Seriously I think our youth movement is key for this franchise. Gotta trust the process. I don’t think we need to over pay for a PG, if IQ and deuce continues to learn from rose and develop more. RJ and the youths are very young. I think Randle is feeding off this young energy and playing better. Gotta see what we have first before we start making crazy off season moves.

ramtour420 @ 3/10/2022 3:21 AM
blkexec wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
martin wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Vmart wrote:
martin wrote:

I think we are all glad he is playing. But how incompetent does Thibs look for not playing the kid sooner. Who know Knicks might be legitimately in the playoff picture had he played earlier and his development process would have been light years ahead.

he scored 5 points and had 9 fouls in the last 2 games... yeah man, I dont know how Thibs could look more incompetent. Prolly woulda made the finals last year if Thibs played Pinson over Elfrid as well. Hopefully we can just rise above Thib's incompetence and enjoy better basketball in the upcoming years

Look, there are a lot of reasons to question Thibs' competence this season. Not giving Duece starter, or even regular rotation, minutes isn't one of them. Especially with the push to give IQ experience at the point. But not playing him at all, even in garbage time was questionable. We have two injury prone point guards and Tom had to know the time would lokely come when Duece would be called on to contribute. Don't need to see a gassed Burks masquerade as a PG when the game is lost. He doesn't need the experience.

It's a fair statement but then you are quibbling over playing a guy garbage minutes. Are players getting that much in those last 2-5 minutes when the game is already out of hand that we care that much?

Maybe some do but I don't think anyone really cares.

points per game is really not a barometer for me when it comes to a player being in the rotation. I look at what contributions he gives to help the team win a basketball game. Hi defensive tenacity and skills is what I am ecstatic about. His 3 point shooting is very good and he can drive to the basket. Thibs should have been playing him at PG a long time ago.

THE DEUCE IS LOOSE…..ABOUT DAMN TIME

Everybody gave me slack when I said deuce should’ve been in the rotation and eventually a starter as the 3rd string PG with Kemba and rose out. But I was equally happy to see IQ get those PG mins.

At the draft I said deuce is instantly our best PG defender. You don’t need much to impact a game, when you can play lock down defense. Spreads like wild fire across the team. This is a testament to our excellent draft of two way players in grimes and deuce.

The only fault the FO did was pay Kemba and Fournier when we should’ve went full youth from the start. Fournier maybe but didn’t need Kemba. But now we get to see what we look like and the potential in IQ and deuce. They are similar to rose and IQ last year. Add Rose and that’s a nice 3 point guard rotation. Move Burks back to SG/SF off the bench with Fournier or cam.

As always we make a late push. But thibs has to be held accountable for his lack of rotation adjustments. He dropped Kemba too early. But that’s when he should’ve moved IQ to the point and deuce / Burks off the bench. Thibs had plenty of time to make that shift. Now it’s late in the season. 🤦‍♂️ Can we do anything right? We don’t even know how to tank. 😂

Seriously I think our youth movement is key for this franchise. Gotta trust the process. I don’t think we need to over pay for a PG, if IQ and deuce continues to learn from rose and develop more. RJ and the youths are very young. I think Randle is feeding off this young energy and playing better. Gotta see what we have first before we start making crazy off season moves.


Yeah man I feel the same way. The previous years when we make a late push and ruin our draft position I always bitched and moaned. This year tho I can take it. As long as we emphasize developing the youth I will be happy for every win. Because those wins will actually mean we are accomplishing even a more important goal than trying to make the 7-8th seed or that play-ins. Assessing what we have on the roster already has to be priority number one. I still remember the Trevor Ariza fiasco
Clean @ 3/10/2022 3:48 AM
blkexec wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
martin wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Vmart wrote:
martin wrote:

I think we are all glad he is playing. But how incompetent does Thibs look for not playing the kid sooner. Who know Knicks might be legitimately in the playoff picture had he played earlier and his development process would have been light years ahead.

he scored 5 points and had 9 fouls in the last 2 games... yeah man, I dont know how Thibs could look more incompetent. Prolly woulda made the finals last year if Thibs played Pinson over Elfrid as well. Hopefully we can just rise above Thib's incompetence and enjoy better basketball in the upcoming years

Look, there are a lot of reasons to question Thibs' competence this season. Not giving Duece starter, or even regular rotation, minutes isn't one of them. Especially with the push to give IQ experience at the point. But not playing him at all, even in garbage time was questionable. We have two injury prone point guards and Tom had to know the time would lokely come when Duece would be called on to contribute. Don't need to see a gassed Burks masquerade as a PG when the game is lost. He doesn't need the experience.

It's a fair statement but then you are quibbling over playing a guy garbage minutes. Are players getting that much in those last 2-5 minutes when the game is already out of hand that we care that much?

Maybe some do but I don't think anyone really cares.

points per game is really not a barometer for me when it comes to a player being in the rotation. I look at what contributions he gives to help the team win a basketball game. Hi defensive tenacity and skills is what I am ecstatic about. His 3 point shooting is very good and he can drive to the basket. Thibs should have been playing him at PG a long time ago.

THE DEUCE IS LOOSE…..ABOUT DAMN TIME

Everybody gave me slack when I said deuce should’ve been in the rotation and eventually a starter as the 3rd string PG with Kemba and rose out. But I was equally happy to see IQ get those PG mins.

At the draft I said deuce is instantly our best PG defender. You don’t need much to impact a game, when you can play lock down defense. Spreads like wild fire across the team. This is a testament to our excellent draft of two way players in grimes and deuce.

The only fault the FO did was pay Kemba and Fournier when we should’ve went full youth from the start. Fournier maybe but didn’t need Kemba. But now we get to see what we look like and the potential in IQ and deuce. They are similar to rose and IQ last year. Add Rose and that’s a nice 3 point guard rotation. Move Burks back to SG/SF off the bench with Fournier or cam.

As always we make a late push. But thibs has to be held accountable for his lack of rotation adjustments. He dropped Kemba too early. But that’s when he should’ve moved IQ to the point and deuce / Burks off the bench. Thibs had plenty of time to make that shift. Now it’s late in the season. 🤦‍♂️ Can we do anything right? We don’t even know how to tank. 😂

Seriously I think our youth movement is key for this franchise. Gotta trust the process. I don’t think we need to over pay for a PG, if IQ and deuce continues to learn from rose and develop more. RJ and the youths are very young. I think Randle is feeding off this young energy and playing better. Gotta see what we have first before we start making crazy off season moves.

Crazy how many came at us for wanting the coach to use the whole roster to find the best combination to win.

Nalod @ 3/10/2022 9:33 AM
Coach gets shat upon when losing, and praise with Winning.
Fans can take vindication if you want. Losing and asking for change is natural.
That Thibs was forced or not to make these changes really that important? Motive is the same.
We blew out Dallas WITHOUT CAM OR GRIMES. No Obi. Deuce contributes but can’t hit a shot?
Whats up? Fornier, Randle and RJ are playing great. Burkes is not awful in this stretch.
Randle is hitting the open shots and and the ball movement creates good ones for him, burkes and IQ.

Why the turn around? chemstry and execution. Most of you are about plug and play. Thats part of it, but how the pieces fit really matters.

We have destroyed Dallas last night. Randle was home but he was smiling and grinding. 3pt for knicks was not good but they took it to the rim.

fishmike @ 3/10/2022 9:43 AM
Clean wrote:
Vmart wrote:You know Thibs f’ed the season up. Our weakness this year has been perimeter defense. Kemba couldn’t guard a statue and you have Fournier who is awful on defense. He didn’t even like Cam Reddish trade. I have to say Thibs has been incompetent it took a sit down with management and WWW to call him out to get more reps for young players like Cam and McBride.

I find it funny there are people who defend Thibs when he literally put out the WORST defending lineup in NBA history for a majority of the season and people wonder why this is a lost season. They love to make excuses and completely ignore his lack of good offensive/defensive schemes and any kind of adjustments. He buries Grimes and McBride on the bench and people say Thibs knows more than you do and they are probably not NBA ready. When they finally get a chance they make an impact instantly. Who cares if he is a 2nd round pick. If he can help the team win from day one you give him a chance to do that.

not sure you know Thibs is the coach here. We works for Knicks and his boss is Leon Rose. Leon spent $90mm to add Kemba/Fournier and am I correct that you believe Thibs is the WORST for playing the guys his boss brought it? You believe the expectation should have been after (how many games?) a few weeks Thibs should have just pulled that plug and gone w/ the end of bench guys?
MS @ 3/10/2022 9:50 AM
Obviously the biggest issue all season has been Randle’s attitude. Some nights he doesn’t want to play.

When that happens the coach needs to recognize it and adjust his rotation accordingly.

If Fournier can’t shoot he’s doesn’t need to play 30+ minutes.

Thibs starting lineup choice has been killing this team all season. He’s also at fault and we can all see it in third quarters when it’s starting to get away from him he leaves the starters in too long.

Reddish playing well, sub. Obi has nice momentum, sub.

No one is bringing it, Duece stay on the bench, play Burks 35 minutes while he is shooting 25%.

Pushing the pace with young legs is important. Thibs has been bad this season, it’s a fact.

He doesn’t adjust well. It’s been his mo for decades. Overplaying guys into the ground. Nothing new here.

fishmike @ 3/10/2022 9:59 AM
MS wrote:Obviously the biggest issue all season has been Randle’s attitude. Some nights he doesn’t want to play.

When that happens the coach needs to recognize it and adjust his rotation accordingly.

If Fournier can’t shoot he’s doesn’t need to play 30+ minutes.

Thibs starting lineup choice has been killing this team all season. He’s also at fault and we can all see it in third quarters when it’s starting to get away from him he leaves the starters in too long.

Reddish playing well, sub. Obi has nice momentum, sub.

No one is bringing it, Duece stay on the bench, play Burks 35 minutes while he is shooting 25%.

Pushing the pace with young legs is important. Thibs has been bad this season, it’s a fact.

He doesn’t adjust well. It’s been his mo for decades. Overplaying guys into the ground. Nothing new here.


How about his FG%??? Just bench Randle... It worked so well on your playstation, not sure why Thibs didnt think of that
Clean @ 3/10/2022 11:20 AM
Clean @ 3/10/2022 11:45 AM
fishmike wrote:
Clean wrote:
Vmart wrote:You know Thibs f’ed the season up. Our weakness this year has been perimeter defense. Kemba couldn’t guard a statue and you have Fournier who is awful on defense. He didn’t even like Cam Reddish trade. I have to say Thibs has been incompetent it took a sit down with management and WWW to call him out to get more reps for young players like Cam and McBride.

I find it funny there are people who defend Thibs when he literally put out the WORST defending lineup in NBA history for a majority of the season and people wonder why this is a lost season. They love to make excuses and completely ignore his lack of good offensive/defensive schemes and any kind of adjustments. He buries Grimes and McBride on the bench and people say Thibs knows more than you do and they are probably not NBA ready. When they finally get a chance they make an impact instantly. Who cares if he is a 2nd round pick. If he can help the team win from day one you give him a chance to do that.

not sure you know Thibs is the coach here. We works for Knicks and his boss is Leon Rose. Leon spent $90mm to add Kemba/Fournier and am I correct that you believe Thibs is the WORST for playing the guys his boss brought it? You believe the expectation should have been after (how many games?) a few weeks Thibs should have just pulled that plug and gone w/ the end of bench guys?

Not sure if you understand you are allowed to change rotations. Thibs wanted both Kemba and EF to start and that was it. He could have tried Kemba off the bench but for some reason that was beyond the pale. From the beginning I was saying to play RJ and Mitch with the bench because the bench plays into their strengths. The starters and Randle do not push the ball and don't pass well and were Randle ISO heavy before RJ took over. I am not sure if you noticed but Thibs is now staggering their minutes and they get a good amount of playing time with the bench now. All of these amazing youth lineups recently include RJ. All I was asking was to try stuff like this before our backs were against the wall. Not sure if you know but the reluctance for Thibs to adjust has been his issue his whole career. So why are you acting like I am saying something that is foreign.

Every FO is not going to be 100% on every decision. That does not matter to me when dealing with the coach. What I want to see is the coach to move the chess pieces around the board to find the best possible combination that will help us win. In cases like the Lakers where Vogel tried it and the roster construction is just too poor then he did his best and the problems is no longer on him. Thibs literally trotted out the worst defending lineup in history until the season was almost out of reach. How many time has he hinted at the need for chance only to go back to the same losing formula? Remember these?

He knew the need for change was needed but he still went back to the same losing formula. Kemba as a starter or Burks at PG without giving the McBride a real chance. I am not sure if you have noticed but these blowout games have come when McBride finally got added into the rotation.

Edit: The topic of Thibs not trying new things kind of came up vs the Clippers.

Thibs saying Lue is a risk taker.

Lue's answer to being called a risk taker.

fishmike @ 3/10/2022 12:01 PM
Clean wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Clean wrote:
Vmart wrote:You know Thibs f’ed the season up. Our weakness this year has been perimeter defense. Kemba couldn’t guard a statue and you have Fournier who is awful on defense. He didn’t even like Cam Reddish trade. I have to say Thibs has been incompetent it took a sit down with management and WWW to call him out to get more reps for young players like Cam and McBride.

I find it funny there are people who defend Thibs when he literally put out the WORST defending lineup in NBA history for a majority of the season and people wonder why this is a lost season. They love to make excuses and completely ignore his lack of good offensive/defensive schemes and any kind of adjustments. He buries Grimes and McBride on the bench and people say Thibs knows more than you do and they are probably not NBA ready. When they finally get a chance they make an impact instantly. Who cares if he is a 2nd round pick. If he can help the team win from day one you give him a chance to do that.

not sure you know Thibs is the coach here. We works for Knicks and his boss is Leon Rose. Leon spent $90mm to add Kemba/Fournier and am I correct that you believe Thibs is the WORST for playing the guys his boss brought it? You believe the expectation should have been after (how many games?) a few weeks Thibs should have just pulled that plug and gone w/ the end of bench guys?

Not sure if you understand you are allowed to change rotations. Thibs wanted both Kemba and EF to start and that was it. He could have tried Kemba off the bench but for some reason that was beyond the pale. From the beginning I was saying to play RJ and Mitch with the bench because the bench plays into their strengths. The starters and Randle do not push the ball and don't pass well and were Randle ISO heavy before RJ took over. I am not sure if you noticed but Thibs is now staggering their minutes and they get a good amount of playing time with the bench now. All of these amazing youth lineups recently include RJ. All I was asking was to try stuff like this before our backs were against the wall. Not sure if you know but the reluctance for Thibs to adjust has been his issue his whole career. So why are you acting like I am saying something that is foreign.

Every FO is not going to be 100% on every decision. That does not matter to me when dealing with the coach. What I want to see is the coach to move the chess pieces around the board to find the best possible combination that will help us win. In cases like the Lakers where Vogel tried it and the roster construction is just too poor then he did his best and the problems is no longer on him. Thibs literally trotted out the worst defending lineup in history until the season was almost out of reach. How many time has he hinted at the need for chance only to go back to the same losing formula? Remember these?

He knew the need for change was needed but he still went back to the same losing formula. Kemba as a starter or Burks at PG without giving the McBride a real chance. I am not sure if you have noticed but these blowout games have come when McBride finally got added into the rotation.

Thibs said why he didnt move Kemba to the bench and eventually dropped him from the rotation. He only came back with Rose got hurt.

Again you seem to think its playstation/YMCA and that contracts and front offices dont exist. This isnt a college team. The NBA is doesnt work like that and you really show ignorance when you assume it does. Or maybe you can give me an example or two of when a FO for any team signed a player and that coach immediately benched that player for an unheralded rookie? Can you please give me an example of that happening in the NBA? It would give context to the fairy dust everyone expects Knick coaches to produce.

blkexec @ 3/10/2022 12:30 PM
fishmike wrote:
Clean wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Clean wrote:
Vmart wrote:You know Thibs f’ed the season up. Our weakness this year has been perimeter defense. Kemba couldn’t guard a statue and you have Fournier who is awful on defense. He didn’t even like Cam Reddish trade. I have to say Thibs has been incompetent it took a sit down with management and WWW to call him out to get more reps for young players like Cam and McBride.

I find it funny there are people who defend Thibs when he literally put out the WORST defending lineup in NBA history for a majority of the season and people wonder why this is a lost season. They love to make excuses and completely ignore his lack of good offensive/defensive schemes and any kind of adjustments. He buries Grimes and McBride on the bench and people say Thibs knows more than you do and they are probably not NBA ready. When they finally get a chance they make an impact instantly. Who cares if he is a 2nd round pick. If he can help the team win from day one you give him a chance to do that.

not sure you know Thibs is the coach here. We works for Knicks and his boss is Leon Rose. Leon spent $90mm to add Kemba/Fournier and am I correct that you believe Thibs is the WORST for playing the guys his boss brought it? You believe the expectation should have been after (how many games?) a few weeks Thibs should have just pulled that plug and gone w/ the end of bench guys?

Not sure if you understand you are allowed to change rotations. Thibs wanted both Kemba and EF to start and that was it. He could have tried Kemba off the bench but for some reason that was beyond the pale. From the beginning I was saying to play RJ and Mitch with the bench because the bench plays into their strengths. The starters and Randle do not push the ball and don't pass well and were Randle ISO heavy before RJ took over. I am not sure if you noticed but Thibs is now staggering their minutes and they get a good amount of playing time with the bench now. All of these amazing youth lineups recently include RJ. All I was asking was to try stuff like this before our backs were against the wall. Not sure if you know but the reluctance for Thibs to adjust has been his issue his whole career. So why are you acting like I am saying something that is foreign.

Every FO is not going to be 100% on every decision. That does not matter to me when dealing with the coach. What I want to see is the coach to move the chess pieces around the board to find the best possible combination that will help us win. In cases like the Lakers where Vogel tried it and the roster construction is just too poor then he did his best and the problems is no longer on him. Thibs literally trotted out the worst defending lineup in history until the season was almost out of reach. How many time has he hinted at the need for chance only to go back to the same losing formula? Remember these?

He knew the need for change was needed but he still went back to the same losing formula. Kemba as a starter or Burks at PG without giving the McBride a real chance. I am not sure if you have noticed but these blowout games have come when McBride finally got added into the rotation.

Thibs said why he didnt move Kemba to the bench and eventually dropped him from the rotation. He only came back with Rose got hurt.

Again you seem to think its playstation/YMCA and that contracts and front offices dont exist. This isnt a college team. The NBA is doesnt work like that and you really show ignorance when you assume it does. Or maybe you can give me an example or two of when a FO for any team signed a player and that coach immediately benched that player for an unheralded rookie? Can you please give me an example of that happening in the NBA? It would give context to the fairy dust everyone expects Knick coaches to produce.

Fish….you seem to support thibs decision and I’m not sure why. FO paid millions for Kemba and Fournier as you said and I agree. Wasn’t it thibs decision to remove his high priced FO free agent selection in Kemba. That must be on thibs correct? Looks like he was able to make that difficult decision which at the time I disagreed with. This is where he F’ed up and went with Burks over IQ or Deuce. Thibs also messed up by having the same starting 5 compared to all nba teams. Even though it was clear the chemistry in that starting 5 was broken.

Listen to lue. That’s the kind of coach this team needs. A coach not afraid to make adjustments or changes until something works. Vs thibs trotting out the same rotation and expecting something different. That’s called insanity. Thank you coach lue for explaining how a coach shouldnt make moves for political reasons or fear or his job.

We clearly lacked perimeter defense. Every guard we play had a career day. This the wrong guy you want to stick up for. I hope he learned his lesson and can improve next season. But I’ve had my doubts on thibs for a long time and this doesn’t help his case. Just confirms why I was skeptical with his head coach success. Great person to have on your coaching staff but thibs as a head coach, I don’t know. I still have my doubts. I don’t care if he got coy. Phil Jackson is the greatest coach alive to some people. I never gave him that respect b4 he came here. And I still don’t, even if I’m the minority. Hope thibs proves me wrong. Playing deuce and grimes helps. I wish he wasn’t forced into this decision. But I’m glad we are here now and deuce is a main rotation player.

What does thibs do when Obi, and rose returns, along with cam and grimes? Thibs is better when forced to play a tight rotation. When he has more than 12 plus players all ready to contribute, thibs struggles. We will see if that’s the case soon.

And just an fyi……deuce was projected to be a 1st rounder on all draft boards. He slid to the second round. Not the case for sims or Mitch who were both projected to be 2nd rounders. So deuce was rated pretty high for his defense and now we see why.

Release the deuce

Clean @ 3/10/2022 12:45 PM
fishmike wrote:
Clean wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Clean wrote:
Vmart wrote:You know Thibs f’ed the season up. Our weakness this year has been perimeter defense. Kemba couldn’t guard a statue and you have Fournier who is awful on defense. He didn’t even like Cam Reddish trade. I have to say Thibs has been incompetent it took a sit down with management and WWW to call him out to get more reps for young players like Cam and McBride.

I find it funny there are people who defend Thibs when he literally put out the WORST defending lineup in NBA history for a majority of the season and people wonder why this is a lost season. They love to make excuses and completely ignore his lack of good offensive/defensive schemes and any kind of adjustments. He buries Grimes and McBride on the bench and people say Thibs knows more than you do and they are probably not NBA ready. When they finally get a chance they make an impact instantly. Who cares if he is a 2nd round pick. If he can help the team win from day one you give him a chance to do that.

not sure you know Thibs is the coach here. We works for Knicks and his boss is Leon Rose. Leon spent $90mm to add Kemba/Fournier and am I correct that you believe Thibs is the WORST for playing the guys his boss brought it? You believe the expectation should have been after (how many games?) a few weeks Thibs should have just pulled that plug and gone w/ the end of bench guys?

Not sure if you understand you are allowed to change rotations. Thibs wanted both Kemba and EF to start and that was it. He could have tried Kemba off the bench but for some reason that was beyond the pale. From the beginning I was saying to play RJ and Mitch with the bench because the bench plays into their strengths. The starters and Randle do not push the ball and don't pass well and were Randle ISO heavy before RJ took over. I am not sure if you noticed but Thibs is now staggering their minutes and they get a good amount of playing time with the bench now. All of these amazing youth lineups recently include RJ. All I was asking was to try stuff like this before our backs were against the wall. Not sure if you know but the reluctance for Thibs to adjust has been his issue his whole career. So why are you acting like I am saying something that is foreign.

Every FO is not going to be 100% on every decision. That does not matter to me when dealing with the coach. What I want to see is the coach to move the chess pieces around the board to find the best possible combination that will help us win. In cases like the Lakers where Vogel tried it and the roster construction is just too poor then he did his best and the problems is no longer on him. Thibs literally trotted out the worst defending lineup in history until the season was almost out of reach. How many time has he hinted at the need for chance only to go back to the same losing formula? Remember these?

He knew the need for change was needed but he still went back to the same losing formula. Kemba as a starter or Burks at PG without giving the McBride a real chance. I am not sure if you have noticed but these blowout games have come when McBride finally got added into the rotation.

Thibs said why he didnt move Kemba to the bench and eventually dropped him from the rotation. He only came back with Rose got hurt.

Again you seem to think its playstation/YMCA and that contracts and front offices dont exist. This isnt a college team. The NBA is doesnt work like that and you really show ignorance when you assume it does. Or maybe you can give me an example or two of when a FO for any team signed a player and that coach immediately benched that player for an unheralded rookie? Can you please give me an example of that happening in the NBA? It would give context to the fairy dust everyone expects Knick coaches to produce.

The only thing that matter is wins. If you don't play a big contract and you are winning no one in the FO cares. The player might ask for a trade but all you have to do is win. I don't think you remember that the FO also conducts the draft. So while Kemba is a FO move McBride is also a FO move.

On the Kemba thing, Just because he said the reason makes it a good decision? You are missing me with that logic. The covid excuse would be legit if he stopped playing Kemba or brought him of the bench after we got bodies back. As we all know that was not the case. So that excuse does not fly either.

foosballnick @ 3/10/2022 12:58 PM
fishmike wrote:
Clean wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Clean wrote:
Vmart wrote:You know Thibs f’ed the season up. Our weakness this year has been perimeter defense. Kemba couldn’t guard a statue and you have Fournier who is awful on defense. He didn’t even like Cam Reddish trade. I have to say Thibs has been incompetent it took a sit down with management and WWW to call him out to get more reps for young players like Cam and McBride.

I find it funny there are people who defend Thibs when he literally put out the WORST defending lineup in NBA history for a majority of the season and people wonder why this is a lost season. They love to make excuses and completely ignore his lack of good offensive/defensive schemes and any kind of adjustments. He buries Grimes and McBride on the bench and people say Thibs knows more than you do and they are probably not NBA ready. When they finally get a chance they make an impact instantly. Who cares if he is a 2nd round pick. If he can help the team win from day one you give him a chance to do that.

not sure you know Thibs is the coach here. We works for Knicks and his boss is Leon Rose. Leon spent $90mm to add Kemba/Fournier and am I correct that you believe Thibs is the WORST for playing the guys his boss brought it? You believe the expectation should have been after (how many games?) a few weeks Thibs should have just pulled that plug and gone w/ the end of bench guys?

Not sure if you understand you are allowed to change rotations. Thibs wanted both Kemba and EF to start and that was it. He could have tried Kemba off the bench but for some reason that was beyond the pale. From the beginning I was saying to play RJ and Mitch with the bench because the bench plays into their strengths. The starters and Randle do not push the ball and don't pass well and were Randle ISO heavy before RJ took over. I am not sure if you noticed but Thibs is now staggering their minutes and they get a good amount of playing time with the bench now. All of these amazing youth lineups recently include RJ. All I was asking was to try stuff like this before our backs were against the wall. Not sure if you know but the reluctance for Thibs to adjust has been his issue his whole career. So why are you acting like I am saying something that is foreign.

Every FO is not going to be 100% on every decision. That does not matter to me when dealing with the coach. What I want to see is the coach to move the chess pieces around the board to find the best possible combination that will help us win. In cases like the Lakers where Vogel tried it and the roster construction is just too poor then he did his best and the problems is no longer on him. Thibs literally trotted out the worst defending lineup in history until the season was almost out of reach. How many time has he hinted at the need for chance only to go back to the same losing formula? Remember these?

He knew the need for change was needed but he still went back to the same losing formula. Kemba as a starter or Burks at PG without giving the McBride a real chance. I am not sure if you have noticed but these blowout games have come when McBride finally got added into the rotation.

Thibs said why he didnt move Kemba to the bench and eventually dropped him from the rotation. He only came back with Rose got hurt.

Again you seem to think its playstation/YMCA and that contracts and front offices dont exist. This isnt a college team. The NBA is doesnt work like that and you really show ignorance when you assume it does. Or maybe you can give me an example or two of when a FO for any team signed a player and that coach immediately benched that player for an unheralded rookie? Can you please give me an example of that happening in the NBA? It would give context to the fairy dust everyone expects Knick coaches to produce.


Not a perfect example but very applicable. The Bulls signed/acquired Lonzo, Caruso and DeRozan - yet gave Ayo - their unheralded 2nd Round pick significant minutes at ~20 minutes per game starting in Game #4 this season which became 35+ minutes at Game #41 after injuries.

fishmike @ 3/10/2022 1:02 PM
blkexec wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Clean wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Clean wrote:
Vmart wrote:You know Thibs f’ed the season up. Our weakness this year has been perimeter defense. Kemba couldn’t guard a statue and you have Fournier who is awful on defense. He didn’t even like Cam Reddish trade. I have to say Thibs has been incompetent it took a sit down with management and WWW to call him out to get more reps for young players like Cam and McBride.

I find it funny there are people who defend Thibs when he literally put out the WORST defending lineup in NBA history for a majority of the season and people wonder why this is a lost season. They love to make excuses and completely ignore his lack of good offensive/defensive schemes and any kind of adjustments. He buries Grimes and McBride on the bench and people say Thibs knows more than you do and they are probably not NBA ready. When they finally get a chance they make an impact instantly. Who cares if he is a 2nd round pick. If he can help the team win from day one you give him a chance to do that.

not sure you know Thibs is the coach here. We works for Knicks and his boss is Leon Rose. Leon spent $90mm to add Kemba/Fournier and am I correct that you believe Thibs is the WORST for playing the guys his boss brought it? You believe the expectation should have been after (how many games?) a few weeks Thibs should have just pulled that plug and gone w/ the end of bench guys?

Not sure if you understand you are allowed to change rotations. Thibs wanted both Kemba and EF to start and that was it. He could have tried Kemba off the bench but for some reason that was beyond the pale. From the beginning I was saying to play RJ and Mitch with the bench because the bench plays into their strengths. The starters and Randle do not push the ball and don't pass well and were Randle ISO heavy before RJ took over. I am not sure if you noticed but Thibs is now staggering their minutes and they get a good amount of playing time with the bench now. All of these amazing youth lineups recently include RJ. All I was asking was to try stuff like this before our backs were against the wall. Not sure if you know but the reluctance for Thibs to adjust has been his issue his whole career. So why are you acting like I am saying something that is foreign.

Every FO is not going to be 100% on every decision. That does not matter to me when dealing with the coach. What I want to see is the coach to move the chess pieces around the board to find the best possible combination that will help us win. In cases like the Lakers where Vogel tried it and the roster construction is just too poor then he did his best and the problems is no longer on him. Thibs literally trotted out the worst defending lineup in history until the season was almost out of reach. How many time has he hinted at the need for chance only to go back to the same losing formula? Remember these?

He knew the need for change was needed but he still went back to the same losing formula. Kemba as a starter or Burks at PG without giving the McBride a real chance. I am not sure if you have noticed but these blowout games have come when McBride finally got added into the rotation.

Thibs said why he didnt move Kemba to the bench and eventually dropped him from the rotation. He only came back with Rose got hurt.

Again you seem to think its playstation/YMCA and that contracts and front offices dont exist. This isnt a college team. The NBA is doesnt work like that and you really show ignorance when you assume it does. Or maybe you can give me an example or two of when a FO for any team signed a player and that coach immediately benched that player for an unheralded rookie? Can you please give me an example of that happening in the NBA? It would give context to the fairy dust everyone expects Knick coaches to produce.

Fish….you seem to support thibs decision and I’m not sure why. FO paid millions for Kemba and Fournier as you said and I agree. Wasn’t it thibs decision to remove his high priced FO free agent selection in Kemba. That must be on thibs correct? Looks like he was able to make that difficult decision which at the time I disagreed with. This is where he F’ed up and went with Burks over IQ or Deuce. Thibs also messed up by having the same starting 5 compared to all nba teams. Even though it was clear the chemistry in that starting 5 was broken.

Listen to lue. That’s the kind of coach this team needs. A coach not afraid to make adjustments or changes until something works. Vs thibs trotting out the same rotation and expecting something different. That’s called insanity. Thank you coach lue for explaining how a coach shouldnt make moves for political reasons or fear or his job.

We clearly lacked perimeter defense. Every guard we play had a career day. This the wrong guy you want to stick up for. I hope he learned his lesson and can improve next season. But I’ve had my doubts on thibs for a long time and this doesn’t help his case. Just confirms why I was skeptical with his head coach success. Great person to have on your coaching staff but thibs as a head coach, I don’t know. I still have my doubts. I don’t care if he got coy. Phil Jackson is the greatest coach alive to some people. I never gave him that respect b4 he came here. And I still don’t, even if I’m the minority. Hope thibs proves me wrong. Playing deuce and grimes helps. I wish he wasn’t forced into this decision. But I’m glad we are here now and deuce is a main rotation player.

What does thibs do when Obi, and rose returns, along with cam and grimes? Thibs is better when forced to play a tight rotation. When he has more than 12 plus players all ready to contribute, thibs struggles. We will see if that’s the case soon.

And just an fyi……deuce was projected to be a 1st rounder on all draft boards. He slid to the second round. Not the case for sims or Mitch who were both projected to be 2nd rounders. So deuce was rated pretty high for his defense and now we see why.

Release the deuce

the bold is where you are totally missing the point (no offense). Its why I started a thread about all the coaches we have had. You are focusing on one piece and making it a yes or no and it just doesnt work like that. What is Thibs job? Who hired him? Who is he accountable to? Does he want to have a career in the NBA after this job if its not long lasting? How does he control the locker room if he doesnt have the player's trust? How does he earn and maintain that trust? Are all veteran players the individuals or is there a fraternity that shares information on how coaches and organizations treat each other? Are these human beings and do they possibly have relationships and interactions we are not privy to?

Its not that I "support" Thibs decision. He hasnt had a good year. Is it Thib's fault Randle didnt come to play? Or that the chemistry between Fournier/Kemba/Randle was beyond terrible? Maybe! We surely didnt see anything that helped. He just kept running them out there.

You should care he won COY. Why do you think he won that? Because he got way more wins than that roster should have gotten, fueled mostly by Randle's season. You are clearly basing your expectations on a team that clearly overachieved. Thibs made changes last year also and they all worked. This year he's made changes and most have not

Its Thib's fault for "sticking with his guys like Burk."
This is fair. They call it ride or die for a reason. This is what the die part looks like.

Now lets say IQ finishes these last 20 games playing great PG and putting up 15/7/5 (basically continuing his current good play) and this becomes the launching point for the Knicks breakout PG we have been so dying for. Does Thibs get the same credit as he get blame? I mean he ran IQ out there night after night during some really bad shooting slumps that lasted like a month. Looks like the kid is working out of it and blossoming. Is that an example of your coach trusting you?

"Thibs is incompetent for..." pick any of the many wrong moves or non moves Thibs has made. Thats fine, but what does that blame accomplish? Nothing but absolve other parties of responsibility.

I'm not a Thibs or die. I think he's a good coach. He's a pusher. He pushes guys, but also lets them be them. Everywhere he goes they win more right away. He doesnt GAF about offense so long as you are taking "good" shots and being aggressive. That's a big problem when Julius Randle is your floor general and we dont have Rose to bail him out. That in a nutshell is the season.

fishmike @ 3/10/2022 1:08 PM
foosballnick wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Clean wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Clean wrote:
Vmart wrote:You know Thibs f’ed the season up. Our weakness this year has been perimeter defense. Kemba couldn’t guard a statue and you have Fournier who is awful on defense. He didn’t even like Cam Reddish trade. I have to say Thibs has been incompetent it took a sit down with management and WWW to call him out to get more reps for young players like Cam and McBride.

I find it funny there are people who defend Thibs when he literally put out the WORST defending lineup in NBA history for a majority of the season and people wonder why this is a lost season. They love to make excuses and completely ignore his lack of good offensive/defensive schemes and any kind of adjustments. He buries Grimes and McBride on the bench and people say Thibs knows more than you do and they are probably not NBA ready. When they finally get a chance they make an impact instantly. Who cares if he is a 2nd round pick. If he can help the team win from day one you give him a chance to do that.

not sure you know Thibs is the coach here. We works for Knicks and his boss is Leon Rose. Leon spent $90mm to add Kemba/Fournier and am I correct that you believe Thibs is the WORST for playing the guys his boss brought it? You believe the expectation should have been after (how many games?) a few weeks Thibs should have just pulled that plug and gone w/ the end of bench guys?

Not sure if you understand you are allowed to change rotations. Thibs wanted both Kemba and EF to start and that was it. He could have tried Kemba off the bench but for some reason that was beyond the pale. From the beginning I was saying to play RJ and Mitch with the bench because the bench plays into their strengths. The starters and Randle do not push the ball and don't pass well and were Randle ISO heavy before RJ took over. I am not sure if you noticed but Thibs is now staggering their minutes and they get a good amount of playing time with the bench now. All of these amazing youth lineups recently include RJ. All I was asking was to try stuff like this before our backs were against the wall. Not sure if you know but the reluctance for Thibs to adjust has been his issue his whole career. So why are you acting like I am saying something that is foreign.

Every FO is not going to be 100% on every decision. That does not matter to me when dealing with the coach. What I want to see is the coach to move the chess pieces around the board to find the best possible combination that will help us win. In cases like the Lakers where Vogel tried it and the roster construction is just too poor then he did his best and the problems is no longer on him. Thibs literally trotted out the worst defending lineup in history until the season was almost out of reach. How many time has he hinted at the need for chance only to go back to the same losing formula? Remember these?

He knew the need for change was needed but he still went back to the same losing formula. Kemba as a starter or Burks at PG without giving the McBride a real chance. I am not sure if you have noticed but these blowout games have come when McBride finally got added into the rotation.

Thibs said why he didnt move Kemba to the bench and eventually dropped him from the rotation. He only came back with Rose got hurt.

Again you seem to think its playstation/YMCA and that contracts and front offices dont exist. This isnt a college team. The NBA is doesnt work like that and you really show ignorance when you assume it does. Or maybe you can give me an example or two of when a FO for any team signed a player and that coach immediately benched that player for an unheralded rookie? Can you please give me an example of that happening in the NBA? It would give context to the fairy dust everyone expects Knick coaches to produce.


Not a perfect example but very applicable. The Bulls signed/acquired Lonzo, Caruso and DeRozan - yet gave Ayo - their unheralded 2nd Round pick significant minutes at ~20 minutes per game starting in Game #4 this season which became 35+ minutes at Game #41 after injuries.

he's playing because guys are hurt.

Im talking about him playing over Lonzo Ball because Ball was in slump or playing really poorly. Would that be a reasonable expectation? Thats what Knick fans are saying... that Deuce should have played over the vets much sooner, and that just isnt realistic. That's an NBA thing. Its got to be real outlier like Jokic (and even took some time)

Feels like we actually did the right thing for once w/ McBride. Let him tear up the Gleague, get some confidence and reps and come up here. I love McBride. This notion that Thibs failed to let this kid save our season earlier is SMH material.

Who cares he's playing and Thibs isnt going anywhere so whatever

Clean @ 3/10/2022 1:20 PM
fishmike @ 3/10/2022 1:42 PM
Clean wrote:
Deuce is the new Frank... it doesnt matter if he's got more fouls than points, its all about the +/-
martin @ 3/10/2022 2:17 PM
Clean wrote:The only thing that matter is wins.

In the big picture of things, winning is all that matters in the end. But it's not the only thing that matters and especially so when you are not a playoff team or have any real shot at either getting to the playoffs or winning a championship.

From a culture perspective, you need to set that goal of "only thing that matter is wins" but realistically it's one of many things that are happening at the same time.

When you get off of that perspective of only winning matters, there is a whole new world out there.

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