Knicks · Bullish on Deuce (page 23)
fishmike wrote:blkexec wrote:right... because its easy when Burks/RJ combine for 55/12/6 with ONE TURNOVER.Clean wrote:Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1507548379353657348
Click here to view the TweetThis is how I measure deuce success. Not by how many jumpers he make. I’ve watched him play games and his team wins, in college and gleague.
This McBride could have saved the season if not for Thibs narrative is just so fuckin stupid
Burks had a good finish in Detroit and a good game against Chicago. The pro-Deuce rhetoric is about Thibs playing a 9 man rotation instead of a 10 man like he normally does, to the exclusion of Deuce. Bad time to make the argument where Burks played well, but the point stands.
I don't dislike Burks and do believe he is capable of dribbling and passing the ball regardless of who guards him. But, I think he struggles to stay in front of faster point guards in a manner that Deuce doesn't. I don't think that starting unit is lacking players with high usage rates and that McBride can provide 3&D from the PG position without really needing to handle the ball past half court. Think Reggie Bullock but from the PG slot. Defense and shooting without demanding the ball.
The argument for Burks is that the first unit needs more 3pt shooting to spread the floor and Burks is better than McBride at that. It makes logical sense but in practicality, that first unit isn't so good that they can't change it up. Burks is a good player and think he brings so much to the second unit. He's having a great couple games, but overall that unit of Burks/Fournier/Barrett/Randle/Robinson is not productive and results in a net negative rating per 100 possessions.
I get with Rose injured they need to do more with less, but Deuce seems to be a net positive player. Why not play him when you literally have no other PGs healthy on the roster?
Mcbride/[Rose]
Fournier/Quickley
Barrett/Burks
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/Noel
EwingsGlass wrote:you are missing the point. McBride was not ready to play small minutes much less big minutes early on, and even after that he was kinda bad for awhile, especially on offense. Burks is a very good player and has earned Thib's trust. This isnt about Burks vs. McBride. Its about who is a realistic choice for the coach. Who's earned his trust? He can he count on?fishmike wrote:blkexec wrote:right... because its easy when Burks/RJ combine for 55/12/6 with ONE TURNOVER.Clean wrote:Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1507548379353657348
Click here to view the TweetThis is how I measure deuce success. Not by how many jumpers he make. I’ve watched him play games and his team wins, in college and gleague.
This McBride could have saved the season if not for Thibs narrative is just so fuckin stupid
Burks had a good finish in Detroit and a good game against Chicago. The pro-Deuce rhetoric is about Thibs playing a 9 man rotation instead of a 10 man like he normally does, to the exclusion of Deuce. Bad time to make the argument where Burks played well, but the point stands.
I don't dislike Burks and do believe he is capable of dribbling and passing the ball regardless of who guards him. But, I think he struggles to stay in front of faster point guards in a manner that Deuce doesn't. I don't think that starting unit is lacking players with high usage rates and that McBride can provide 3&D from the PG position without really needing to handle the ball past half court. Think Reggie Bullock but from the PG slot. Defense and shooting without demanding the ball.
The argument for Burks is that the first unit needs more 3pt shooting to spread the floor and Burks is better than McBride at that. It makes logical sense but in practicality, that first unit isn't so good that they can't change it up. Burks is a good player and think he brings so much to the second unit. He's having a great couple games, but overall that unit of Burks/Fournier/Barrett/Randle/Robinson is not productive and results in a net negative rating per 100 possessions.
I get with Rose injured they need to do more with less, but Deuce seems to be a net positive player. Why not play him when you literally have no other PGs healthy on the roster?
Mcbride/[Rose]
Fournier/Quickley
Barrett/Burks
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/Noel
The best part of Thibs is he moves slow. Players trust him. They grind and keep working. We have not had that in decades. It doesnt matter... despite Franco's desires Thibs isnt going anywhere. Its not some antiquated "make them earn it." He clearly brings them along slowly but its also clearly working.
Knox is the perfect example of why you dont give kids time just to give them time. This young team looks GREAT under Thibs. That is the part that seems to be lost here
fishmike wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:you are missing the point. McBride was not ready to play small minutes much less big minutes early on, and even after that he was kinda bad for awhile, especially on offense. Burks is a very good player and has earned Thib's trust. This isnt about Burks vs. McBride. Its about who is a realistic choice for the coach. Who's earned his trust? He can he count on?fishmike wrote:blkexec wrote:right... because its easy when Burks/RJ combine for 55/12/6 with ONE TURNOVER.Clean wrote:Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1507548379353657348
Click here to view the TweetThis is how I measure deuce success. Not by how many jumpers he make. I’ve watched him play games and his team wins, in college and gleague.
This McBride could have saved the season if not for Thibs narrative is just so fuckin stupid
Burks had a good finish in Detroit and a good game against Chicago. The pro-Deuce rhetoric is about Thibs playing a 9 man rotation instead of a 10 man like he normally does, to the exclusion of Deuce. Bad time to make the argument where Burks played well, but the point stands.
I don't dislike Burks and do believe he is capable of dribbling and passing the ball regardless of who guards him. But, I think he struggles to stay in front of faster point guards in a manner that Deuce doesn't. I don't think that starting unit is lacking players with high usage rates and that McBride can provide 3&D from the PG position without really needing to handle the ball past half court. Think Reggie Bullock but from the PG slot. Defense and shooting without demanding the ball.
The argument for Burks is that the first unit needs more 3pt shooting to spread the floor and Burks is better than McBride at that. It makes logical sense but in practicality, that first unit isn't so good that they can't change it up. Burks is a good player and think he brings so much to the second unit. He's having a great couple games, but overall that unit of Burks/Fournier/Barrett/Randle/Robinson is not productive and results in a net negative rating per 100 possessions.
I get with Rose injured they need to do more with less, but Deuce seems to be a net positive player. Why not play him when you literally have no other PGs healthy on the roster?
Mcbride/[Rose]
Fournier/Quickley
Barrett/Burks
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/NoelThe best part of Thibs is he moves slow. Players trust him. They grind and keep working. We have not had that in decades. It doesnt matter... despite Franco's desires Thibs isnt going anywhere. Its not some antiquated "make them earn it." He clearly brings them along slowly but its also clearly working.
Knox is the perfect example of why you dont give kids time just to give them time. This young team looks GREAT under Thibs. That is the part that seems to be lost here
That's a great point even though it passes most people by, myself included. Thibs does allow the youngings to develop. Yes it's strange and unorthodox. But it does work. It just feels weird
ramtour420 wrote:fishmike wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:you are missing the point. McBride was not ready to play small minutes much less big minutes early on, and even after that he was kinda bad for awhile, especially on offense. Burks is a very good player and has earned Thib's trust. This isnt about Burks vs. McBride. Its about who is a realistic choice for the coach. Who's earned his trust? He can he count on?fishmike wrote:blkexec wrote:right... because its easy when Burks/RJ combine for 55/12/6 with ONE TURNOVER.Clean wrote:Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1507548379353657348
Click here to view the TweetThis is how I measure deuce success. Not by how many jumpers he make. I’ve watched him play games and his team wins, in college and gleague.
This McBride could have saved the season if not for Thibs narrative is just so fuckin stupid
Burks had a good finish in Detroit and a good game against Chicago. The pro-Deuce rhetoric is about Thibs playing a 9 man rotation instead of a 10 man like he normally does, to the exclusion of Deuce. Bad time to make the argument where Burks played well, but the point stands.
I don't dislike Burks and do believe he is capable of dribbling and passing the ball regardless of who guards him. But, I think he struggles to stay in front of faster point guards in a manner that Deuce doesn't. I don't think that starting unit is lacking players with high usage rates and that McBride can provide 3&D from the PG position without really needing to handle the ball past half court. Think Reggie Bullock but from the PG slot. Defense and shooting without demanding the ball.
The argument for Burks is that the first unit needs more 3pt shooting to spread the floor and Burks is better than McBride at that. It makes logical sense but in practicality, that first unit isn't so good that they can't change it up. Burks is a good player and think he brings so much to the second unit. He's having a great couple games, but overall that unit of Burks/Fournier/Barrett/Randle/Robinson is not productive and results in a net negative rating per 100 possessions.
I get with Rose injured they need to do more with less, but Deuce seems to be a net positive player. Why not play him when you literally have no other PGs healthy on the roster?
Mcbride/[Rose]
Fournier/Quickley
Barrett/Burks
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/NoelThe best part of Thibs is he moves slow. Players trust him. They grind and keep working. We have not had that in decades. It doesnt matter... despite Franco's desires Thibs isnt going anywhere. Its not some antiquated "make them earn it." He clearly brings them along slowly but its also clearly working.
Knox is the perfect example of why you dont give kids time just to give them time. This young team looks GREAT under Thibs. That is the part that seems to be lost here
That's a great point even though it passes most people by, myself included. Thibs does allow the youngings to develop. Yes it's strange and unorthodox. But it does work. It just feels weird
Maybe even a little dirty right?
fishmike wrote:blkexec wrote:right... because its easy when Burks/RJ combine for 55/12/6 with ONE TURNOVER.Clean wrote:Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1507548379353657348
Click here to view the TweetThis is how I measure deuce success. Not by how many jumpers he make. I’ve watched him play games and his team wins, in college and gleague.
This McBride could have saved the season if not for Thibs narrative is just so fuckin stupid
Well…let start with first bold.
In some cases, a yes. Having a defensive player that plays at 110% all the time (Dennis Rodman?) and doesn’t even score a bucket. Yes having junk yard dog on your team who probably never averaged double figure scoring. Draymond has a lot of triple singles and he can be the best player on the floor. So yes, in some cases having that type of defender can remove Burks from guarding other PGs that he shouldn’t be guarding anyway if it wasn’t was old man thibs trying to copy phill Jackson with his 6’6 Ron Harper. That’s so 1990’s. Add in deuce moves Burks to his natural position. That can result into Burks going back to his MJ 4th quarter dominance that we seeing right now. So yes. A second rounder named deuce can shuffle the players positions and saves energy on Burks that he uses on defense guarding quick as PGs. Now he has energy on offense and his legs has more energy for his jumpers. He gets a break on def. So yes.
2nd bold………
Who the fock said that? Who ever said that, please slap him like will smith did to Chris rock. Now you making up shet. How did you go from, we need to play deuce since he’s the 3rd string PG, and 1st and 2nd string are injured.” Or “let’s play deuce so we can see what we have to make better off season decisions.” Or “we are missing a defender at the point of attack. We drafted a 1st rounder in the 2nd round. He’s killing the gleague. Mmmmm why not play him off the bench or start him. And play IQ as the starter and Burks saves the 4th quarter like he did all focking season last year. It’s not rocket science. It’s damn sure ain’t no, deuce would’ve saved the season bullshet.
You want to know how we could’ve saved the season? If the FO added players that compliments last year roster. Or brought back someone that already had chemistry with last years roster. What about the last man on the roster. He was a easy add and our bigger fan on the side line. Everything helps a team build chemistry and the FO failed to provide thibs the proper food to cook. So I don’t know what you mean by that. Now I’ve been a deuce fan since draft day. On record from that day saying deuce is now our best PG defender. Is it a crime is be a fan of a player that’s also a knick? I love grimes and sims the same way. Why not say they could’ve saved the season. Get outta here.
Knicks all day.
If I see a problem I speak up. I don’t care how many degrees or experience you have. Thibs is human and he mad human mistakes. Move on and improve. We disagree on his mistakes…ok…we agree on the future. Let’s stay there. Enjoy it. It feels good to win regardless. It doesn’t last long so enjoy. Can’t change my mind about thibs. But I hope he improves.
martin wrote:ramtour420 wrote:fishmike wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:you are missing the point. McBride was not ready to play small minutes much less big minutes early on, and even after that he was kinda bad for awhile, especially on offense. Burks is a very good player and has earned Thib's trust. This isnt about Burks vs. McBride. Its about who is a realistic choice for the coach. Who's earned his trust? He can he count on?fishmike wrote:blkexec wrote:right... because its easy when Burks/RJ combine for 55/12/6 with ONE TURNOVER.Clean wrote:Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1507548379353657348
Click here to view the TweetThis is how I measure deuce success. Not by how many jumpers he make. I’ve watched him play games and his team wins, in college and gleague.
This McBride could have saved the season if not for Thibs narrative is just so fuckin stupid
Burks had a good finish in Detroit and a good game against Chicago. The pro-Deuce rhetoric is about Thibs playing a 9 man rotation instead of a 10 man like he normally does, to the exclusion of Deuce. Bad time to make the argument where Burks played well, but the point stands.
I don't dislike Burks and do believe he is capable of dribbling and passing the ball regardless of who guards him. But, I think he struggles to stay in front of faster point guards in a manner that Deuce doesn't. I don't think that starting unit is lacking players with high usage rates and that McBride can provide 3&D from the PG position without really needing to handle the ball past half court. Think Reggie Bullock but from the PG slot. Defense and shooting without demanding the ball.
The argument for Burks is that the first unit needs more 3pt shooting to spread the floor and Burks is better than McBride at that. It makes logical sense but in practicality, that first unit isn't so good that they can't change it up. Burks is a good player and think he brings so much to the second unit. He's having a great couple games, but overall that unit of Burks/Fournier/Barrett/Randle/Robinson is not productive and results in a net negative rating per 100 possessions.
I get with Rose injured they need to do more with less, but Deuce seems to be a net positive player. Why not play him when you literally have no other PGs healthy on the roster?
Mcbride/[Rose]
Fournier/Quickley
Barrett/Burks
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/NoelThe best part of Thibs is he moves slow. Players trust him. They grind and keep working. We have not had that in decades. It doesnt matter... despite Franco's desires Thibs isnt going anywhere. Its not some antiquated "make them earn it." He clearly brings them along slowly but its also clearly working.
Knox is the perfect example of why you dont give kids time just to give them time. This young team looks GREAT under Thibs. That is the part that seems to be lost here
That's a great point even though it passes most people by, myself included. Thibs does allow the youngings to develop. Yes it's strange and unorthodox. But it does work. It just feels weirdMaybe even a little dirty right?
Just a touch 
fishmike wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:you are missing the point. McBride was not ready to play small minutes much less big minutes early on, and even after that he was kinda bad for awhile, especially on offense. Burks is a very good player and has earned Thib's trust. This isnt about Burks vs. McBride. Its about who is a realistic choice for the coach. Who's earned his trust? He can he count on?fishmike wrote:blkexec wrote:right... because its easy when Burks/RJ combine for 55/12/6 with ONE TURNOVER.Clean wrote:Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1507548379353657348
Click here to view the TweetThis is how I measure deuce success. Not by how many jumpers he make. I’ve watched him play games and his team wins, in college and gleague.
This McBride could have saved the season if not for Thibs narrative is just so fuckin stupid
Burks had a good finish in Detroit and a good game against Chicago. The pro-Deuce rhetoric is about Thibs playing a 9 man rotation instead of a 10 man like he normally does, to the exclusion of Deuce. Bad time to make the argument where Burks played well, but the point stands.
I don't dislike Burks and do believe he is capable of dribbling and passing the ball regardless of who guards him. But, I think he struggles to stay in front of faster point guards in a manner that Deuce doesn't. I don't think that starting unit is lacking players with high usage rates and that McBride can provide 3&D from the PG position without really needing to handle the ball past half court. Think Reggie Bullock but from the PG slot. Defense and shooting without demanding the ball.
The argument for Burks is that the first unit needs more 3pt shooting to spread the floor and Burks is better than McBride at that. It makes logical sense but in practicality, that first unit isn't so good that they can't change it up. Burks is a good player and think he brings so much to the second unit. He's having a great couple games, but overall that unit of Burks/Fournier/Barrett/Randle/Robinson is not productive and results in a net negative rating per 100 possessions.
I get with Rose injured they need to do more with less, but Deuce seems to be a net positive player. Why not play him when you literally have no other PGs healthy on the roster?
Mcbride/[Rose]
Fournier/Quickley
Barrett/Burks
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/NoelThe best part of Thibs is he moves slow. Players trust him. They grind and keep working. We have not had that in decades. It doesnt matter... despite Franco's desires Thibs isnt going anywhere. Its not some antiquated "make them earn it." He clearly brings them along slowly but its also clearly working.
Knox is the perfect example of why you dont give kids time just to give them time. This young team looks GREAT under Thibs. That is the part that seems to be lost here
I'm a little unclear how any fan would know how good or bad McBride was early on......here's his resume for the first 34 games of the season.....
- In the first 26 games he played a total of ~13 minutes in 7 game appearances or less than 2 minutes per game and had 19 DNP's. How would any fan be able to determine how good or bad a player is with that limited PT?
- He then played 2 pretty good games in a row while getting extended minutes against GSW and HOU in mid-December
- He then got COVID and was out for the next 5 games
foosballnick wrote:fishmike wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:you are missing the point. McBride was not ready to play small minutes much less big minutes early on, and even after that he was kinda bad for awhile, especially on offense. Burks is a very good player and has earned Thib's trust. This isnt about Burks vs. McBride. Its about who is a realistic choice for the coach. Who's earned his trust? He can he count on?fishmike wrote:blkexec wrote:right... because its easy when Burks/RJ combine for 55/12/6 with ONE TURNOVER.Clean wrote:Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1507548379353657348
Click here to view the TweetThis is how I measure deuce success. Not by how many jumpers he make. I’ve watched him play games and his team wins, in college and gleague.
This McBride could have saved the season if not for Thibs narrative is just so fuckin stupid
Burks had a good finish in Detroit and a good game against Chicago. The pro-Deuce rhetoric is about Thibs playing a 9 man rotation instead of a 10 man like he normally does, to the exclusion of Deuce. Bad time to make the argument where Burks played well, but the point stands.
I don't dislike Burks and do believe he is capable of dribbling and passing the ball regardless of who guards him. But, I think he struggles to stay in front of faster point guards in a manner that Deuce doesn't. I don't think that starting unit is lacking players with high usage rates and that McBride can provide 3&D from the PG position without really needing to handle the ball past half court. Think Reggie Bullock but from the PG slot. Defense and shooting without demanding the ball.
The argument for Burks is that the first unit needs more 3pt shooting to spread the floor and Burks is better than McBride at that. It makes logical sense but in practicality, that first unit isn't so good that they can't change it up. Burks is a good player and think he brings so much to the second unit. He's having a great couple games, but overall that unit of Burks/Fournier/Barrett/Randle/Robinson is not productive and results in a net negative rating per 100 possessions.
I get with Rose injured they need to do more with less, but Deuce seems to be a net positive player. Why not play him when you literally have no other PGs healthy on the roster?
Mcbride/[Rose]
Fournier/Quickley
Barrett/Burks
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/NoelThe best part of Thibs is he moves slow. Players trust him. They grind and keep working. We have not had that in decades. It doesnt matter... despite Franco's desires Thibs isnt going anywhere. Its not some antiquated "make them earn it." He clearly brings them along slowly but its also clearly working.
Knox is the perfect example of why you dont give kids time just to give them time. This young team looks GREAT under Thibs. That is the part that seems to be lost here
I'm a little unclear how any fan would know how good or bad McBride was early on......here's his resume for the first 34 games of the season.....
- In the first 26 games he played a total of ~13 minutes in 7 game appearances or less than 2 minutes per game and had 19 DNP's. How would any fan be able to determine how good or bad a player is with that limited PT?
- He then played 2 pretty good games in a row while getting extended minutes against GSW and HOU in mid-December
- He then got COVID and was out for the next 5 games
So he impressed the shit out of the team by tearing up the Gleaague and got into the rotation!
Nalod wrote:foosballnick wrote:fishmike wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:you are missing the point. McBride was not ready to play small minutes much less big minutes early on, and even after that he was kinda bad for awhile, especially on offense. Burks is a very good player and has earned Thib's trust. This isnt about Burks vs. McBride. Its about who is a realistic choice for the coach. Who's earned his trust? He can he count on?fishmike wrote:blkexec wrote:right... because its easy when Burks/RJ combine for 55/12/6 with ONE TURNOVER.Clean wrote:Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1507548379353657348
Click here to view the TweetThis is how I measure deuce success. Not by how many jumpers he make. I’ve watched him play games and his team wins, in college and gleague.
This McBride could have saved the season if not for Thibs narrative is just so fuckin stupid
Burks had a good finish in Detroit and a good game against Chicago. The pro-Deuce rhetoric is about Thibs playing a 9 man rotation instead of a 10 man like he normally does, to the exclusion of Deuce. Bad time to make the argument where Burks played well, but the point stands.
I don't dislike Burks and do believe he is capable of dribbling and passing the ball regardless of who guards him. But, I think he struggles to stay in front of faster point guards in a manner that Deuce doesn't. I don't think that starting unit is lacking players with high usage rates and that McBride can provide 3&D from the PG position without really needing to handle the ball past half court. Think Reggie Bullock but from the PG slot. Defense and shooting without demanding the ball.
The argument for Burks is that the first unit needs more 3pt shooting to spread the floor and Burks is better than McBride at that. It makes logical sense but in practicality, that first unit isn't so good that they can't change it up. Burks is a good player and think he brings so much to the second unit. He's having a great couple games, but overall that unit of Burks/Fournier/Barrett/Randle/Robinson is not productive and results in a net negative rating per 100 possessions.
I get with Rose injured they need to do more with less, but Deuce seems to be a net positive player. Why not play him when you literally have no other PGs healthy on the roster?
Mcbride/[Rose]
Fournier/Quickley
Barrett/Burks
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/NoelThe best part of Thibs is he moves slow. Players trust him. They grind and keep working. We have not had that in decades. It doesnt matter... despite Franco's desires Thibs isnt going anywhere. Its not some antiquated "make them earn it." He clearly brings them along slowly but its also clearly working.
Knox is the perfect example of why you dont give kids time just to give them time. This young team looks GREAT under Thibs. That is the part that seems to be lost here
I'm a little unclear how any fan would know how good or bad McBride was early on......here's his resume for the first 34 games of the season.....
- In the first 26 games he played a total of ~13 minutes in 7 game appearances or less than 2 minutes per game and had 19 DNP's. How would any fan be able to determine how good or bad a player is with that limited PT?
- He then played 2 pretty good games in a row while getting extended minutes against GSW and HOU in mid-December
- He then got COVID and was out for the next 5 games
So he impressed the shit out of the team by tearing up the Gleaague and got into the rotation!
Not sure if his G-League performance impressed the team or not. What actually happened is that he entered the rotation consistently starting in Game #64 after an injury to Grimes caused the roster to be short-handed and forced Thibs hand. Reddish then went down and Deuce then stayed in the rotation. To me this is not some genius Thibs development magic - rather it was a kid who worked hard and did not complain about his time in the G-League and stayed ready for when his chance came with the big club.