TPercy wrote:Panos wrote:TPercy wrote:Still not seeing more than another Frank yet. We’ll see.
You don't see more than Frank? Seriously?
You don't see a comfort on the court that Frank NEVER had?
You don't see speed that he never had? Spring? Decisiveness? Passing skill?
Right now he’s in the boat of what is he contributing on offense if his shot ain’t falling? I don’t buy his passing game yet. I don’t see him getting to the rim. Both are very good defenders. McBride is slightly better than Frank but I need more to consider him as part of the core. Right now the definitive core is IQ RJ and Mitch.
Ok, if you cannot see the difference, I'm sorry for you, because to me Deuce's potential is exciting.
To me, there is no comparison between the two players.
Even that they both play good defense is not comparable, because even the way they play defense is completely different.
Frank disrupted with his length, Deuce with his speed and energy.
We can agree to disagree on this and check back in at the end of his rookie deal and compare again.
Panos wrote:TPercy wrote:Panos wrote:TPercy wrote:Still not seeing more than another Frank yet. We’ll see.
You don't see more than Frank? Seriously?
You don't see a comfort on the court that Frank NEVER had?
You don't see speed that he never had? Spring? Decisiveness? Passing skill?
Right now he’s in the boat of what is he contributing on offense if his shot ain’t falling? I don’t buy his passing game yet. I don’t see him getting to the rim. Both are very good defenders. McBride is slightly better than Frank but I need more to consider him as part of the core. Right now the definitive core is IQ RJ and Mitch.
Ok, if you cannot see the difference, I'm sorry for you, because to me Deuce's potential is exciting.
To me, there is no comparison between the two players.
Even that they both play good defense is not comparable, because even the way they play defense is completely different.
Frank disrupted with his length, Deuce with his speed and energy.
We can agree to disagree on this and check back in at the end of his rookie deal and compare again.
If Frank played like McBride he would be really good. McBride has NBA athleticism and is aggressive scoring. He's gonna need some time I think but I really do see him as a Marcus Smart type guy
foosballnick wrote:Nalod wrote:foosballnick wrote:fishmike wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:fishmike wrote:blkexec wrote:Clean wrote:
This is how I measure deuce success. Not by how many jumpers he make. I’ve watched him play games and his team wins, in college and gleague.
right... because its easy when Burks/RJ combine for 55/12/6 with ONE TURNOVER. This McBride could have saved the season if not for Thibs narrative is just so fuckin stupid 
Burks had a good finish in Detroit and a good game against Chicago. The pro-Deuce rhetoric is about Thibs playing a 9 man rotation instead of a 10 man like he normally does, to the exclusion of Deuce. Bad time to make the argument where Burks played well, but the point stands.
I don't dislike Burks and do believe he is capable of dribbling and passing the ball regardless of who guards him. But, I think he struggles to stay in front of faster point guards in a manner that Deuce doesn't. I don't think that starting unit is lacking players with high usage rates and that McBride can provide 3&D from the PG position without really needing to handle the ball past half court. Think Reggie Bullock but from the PG slot. Defense and shooting without demanding the ball.
The argument for Burks is that the first unit needs more 3pt shooting to spread the floor and Burks is better than McBride at that. It makes logical sense but in practicality, that first unit isn't so good that they can't change it up. Burks is a good player and think he brings so much to the second unit. He's having a great couple games, but overall that unit of Burks/Fournier/Barrett/Randle/Robinson is not productive and results in a net negative rating per 100 possessions.
I get with Rose injured they need to do more with less, but Deuce seems to be a net positive player. Why not play him when you literally have no other PGs healthy on the roster?
Mcbride/[Rose]
Fournier/Quickley
Barrett/Burks
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/Noel
you are missing the point. McBride was not ready to play small minutes much less big minutes early on, and even after that he was kinda bad for awhile, especially on offense. Burks is a very good player and has earned Thib's trust. This isnt about Burks vs. McBride. Its about who is a realistic choice for the coach. Who's earned his trust? He can he count on?The best part of Thibs is he moves slow. Players trust him. They grind and keep working. We have not had that in decades. It doesnt matter... despite Franco's desires Thibs isnt going anywhere. Its not some antiquated "make them earn it." He clearly brings them along slowly but its also clearly working.
Knox is the perfect example of why you dont give kids time just to give them time. This young team looks GREAT under Thibs. That is the part that seems to be lost here
I'm a little unclear how any fan would know how good or bad McBride was early on......here's his resume for the first 34 games of the season.....
- In the first 26 games he played a total of ~13 minutes in 7 game appearances or less than 2 minutes per game and had 19 DNP's. How would any fan be able to determine how good or bad a player is with that limited PT?
- He then played 2 pretty good games in a row while getting extended minutes against GSW and HOU in mid-December
- He then got COVID and was out for the next 5 games
So he impressed the shit out of the team by tearing up the Gleaague and got into the rotation!
Not sure if his G-League performance impressed the team or not. What actually happened is that he entered the rotation consistently starting in Game #64 after an injury to Grimes caused the roster to be short-handed and forced Thibs hand. Reddish then went down and Deuce then stayed in the rotation. To me this is not some genius Thibs development magic - rather it was a kid who worked hard and did not complain about his time in the G-League and stayed ready for when his chance came with the big club.
I agree with that. Some of us give thibs too much credit. If we had a full team and all the vets was playing, there is no grimes, sims or deuce. All three would be talked about in some kind of package deal. Thanks to Covid protocol and injuries, thibs looks like a genius 🤣. Regardless who gets the blame, the FO now sees what we have and can potentially have in the future. Now they have no excuse for next season. Let’s see how they respond.
Clearly the FO didn’t think the yoots would contribute this early or even in the first year. Seems like the plan was to learn from Kemba and Fournier. I guess they learned how to impress or not impress thibs. But Fournier is still a starter and he doesn’t fit the defensive play thibs is known for using. Is that Thibs changing or the FO twisting thibs hands.
Thibs is a good coach but stubborn as hell. You gotta force him into certain rotations. We can’t depend on Covid next year to open up mins for these young players. FO needs to step up this summer.
And to answer the question I keep seeing, “how do you know he’s going to be any good without playing significant nba minutes “
I was the one who said on draft night, after the pick. Deuce is INSTANTLY the best PG defender on the team. All you have to do is watch a persons footwork. Also when he played against the top picks in the draft, during the tournament. He dominated his matchup, like out playing Cade. So all of that woke me up and I just focused on deuce and his highlights and low lights. I’ve also played ball with guys that eventually got drafted and some killed it in the league and other didn’t do shet like our one pick who later played for the lakers and now he’s out the league. Tall forward type. I forgot his name but I’m barely 6 ft and I was boxing him out and he’s legit 6’10. I told my boy after the game, he going to be terrible in the league. And he was. Played with Gilbert arenas and said they going to call carry on him every play. And he became an nba star player.
Deuce has all the nba level intangles and agility for his size. Football player so I knew he was tough. Coached by a respected defensive coach. Well liked and humble. I did my work in this kid. So it was obvious he could’ve contributed on defense alone from day 1. What surprised me was his 3 pt shot and ability to lead a team on offense and defense on the gleague. Certain players skill set can translate very easy. But I’ve also been wrong before like agent zero who turned into a star. That’s the fun part that Briggs and I enjoy. Now Briggs takes it too far and will list 20 players in the draft and say they all stars or solid. When one of them becomes a star, he starts a thread of “I told u so”. I’m similar but on a smaller scale for mostly knick players. I did say Lebron was going to be a super star when I saw him play in HS. But that was easy. Did t think kyrie was going to be kyrie. But deuce, grimes (killed in on per draft full court games), and sims since I was living in texas I had my texas connections. Saw him hit his head on the rim and I’m like sold. Second round rim runner. That’s a win.
But deuce is exactly what I thought he would be. And now it looks like his potential is even higher since he had thibs eye and looks like a stable rotation player. Thibs will turn him into a better version of marcus smart. In my opinion. Can’t wait to see how the FO rebuilds this team. That a dream job of mine. Putting together s championship team. I don’t know shet about salaries or the cap. But I’m good at seeing certain skills and how they mesh together.
Randle and RJ don’t compliment each other. It’s like driving a fast car that’s not efficient. Wasted unnecessary energy with Randles iso Kobe imitation. His problem is Kobe was his mentor and he’s not on Kobe level. I rather have the humble players that are good vs the vets that are over confident. Even though is is technically still young. But his game hasn’t change or evolved. He still does it all when he’s not skilled enough to do it all.
But back to deuce. It was clear how he would impact a team that’s the polar opposite of him at the guard position. Kemba and EF on defense hurts my eyes sometimes. EF has been better but inconsistent. He’s a solid offensive punch off the bench.
Panos wrote:TPercy wrote:Panos wrote:TPercy wrote:Still not seeing more than another Frank yet. We’ll see.
You don't see more than Frank? Seriously?
You don't see a comfort on the court that Frank NEVER had?
You don't see speed that he never had? Spring? Decisiveness? Passing skill?
Right now he’s in the boat of what is he contributing on offense if his shot ain’t falling? I don’t buy his passing game yet. I don’t see him getting to the rim. Both are very good defenders. McBride is slightly better than Frank but I need more to consider him as part of the core. Right now the definitive core is IQ RJ and Mitch.
Ok, if you cannot see the difference, I'm sorry for you, because to me Deuce's potential is exciting.
To me, there is no comparison between the two players.
Even that they both play good defense is not comparable, because even the way they play defense is completely different.
Frank disrupted with his length, Deuce with his speed and energy.
We can agree to disagree on this and check back in at the end of his rookie deal and compare again.
Sorry but I’m not falling for this trap for the Xth time. Some undersized 3rd stringer PG comes along who shows a little bit of promise only for him to be out the league in year 2/3.
TPercy wrote:Panos wrote:TPercy wrote:Panos wrote:TPercy wrote:Still not seeing more than another Frank yet. We'll see.
You don't see more than Frank? Seriously?
You don't see a comfort on the court that Frank NEVER had?
You don't see speed that he never had? Spring? Decisiveness? Passing skill?
Right now hes in the boat of what is he contributing on offense if his shot ain;t falling? I don;t buy his passing game yet. I dont see him getting to the rim. Both are very good defenders. McBride is slightly better than Frank but I need more to consider him as part of the core. Right now the definitive core is IQ RJ and Mitch.
Ok, if you cannot see the difference, I'm sorry for you, because to me Deuce's potential is exciting.
To me, there is no comparison between the two players.
Even that they both play good defense is not comparable, because even the way they play defense is completely different.
Frank disrupted with his length, Deuce with his speed and energy.
We can agree to disagree on this and check back in at the end of his rookie deal and compare again.
Sorry but Im not falling for this trap for the Xth time. Some undersized 3rd stringer PG comes along who shows a little bit of promise only for him to be out the league in year 2/3.
Fair enough. But for me this will be the first time aside from Lin) I've been excited about a Knicks PG since Marbury.
Panos wrote:TPercy wrote:Panos wrote:TPercy wrote:Panos wrote:TPercy wrote:Still not seeing more than another Frank yet. We'll see.
You don't see more than Frank? Seriously?
You don't see a comfort on the court that Frank NEVER had?
You don't see speed that he never had? Spring? Decisiveness? Passing skill?
Right now hes in the boat of what is he contributing on offense if his shot ain;t falling? I don;t buy his passing game yet. I dont see him getting to the rim. Both are very good defenders. McBride is slightly better than Frank but I need more to consider him as part of the core. Right now the definitive core is IQ RJ and Mitch.
Ok, if you cannot see the difference, I'm sorry for you, because to me Deuce's potential is exciting.
To me, there is no comparison between the two players.
Even that they both play good defense is not comparable, because even the way they play defense is completely different.
Frank disrupted with his length, Deuce with his speed and energy.
We can agree to disagree on this and check back in at the end of his rookie deal and compare again.
Sorry but Im not falling for this trap for the Xth time. Some undersized 3rd stringer PG comes along who shows a little bit of promise only for him to be out the league in year 2/3.
Fair enough. But for me this will be the first time aside from Lin) I've been excited about a Knicks PG since Marbury.
Good to be enthusiastic! From your lips to gods ears I hope Deuce is a HOF and the steal of the decade.
Can’t imagine anyone thinking differently. Until then we really just talking about the path to get him the best opportunity and there is no real fan knowledge other than hindsight after the fact.
Frank’s defense was quite good and we forget he could change a game with it. The residual aftermath is his tentative offensive acumen. Miles is a very different player
TPercy wrote:Panos wrote:TPercy wrote:Panos wrote:TPercy wrote:Still not seeing more than another Frank yet. We’ll see.
You don't see more than Frank? Seriously?
You don't see a comfort on the court that Frank NEVER had?
You don't see speed that he never had? Spring? Decisiveness? Passing skill?
Right now he’s in the boat of what is he contributing on offense if his shot ain’t falling? I don’t buy his passing game yet. I don’t see him getting to the rim. Both are very good defenders. McBride is slightly better than Frank but I need more to consider him as part of the core. Right now the definitive core is IQ RJ and Mitch.
Ok, if you cannot see the difference, I'm sorry for you, because to me Deuce's potential is exciting.
To me, there is no comparison between the two players.
Even that they both play good defense is not comparable, because even the way they play defense is completely different.
Frank disrupted with his length, Deuce with his speed and energy.
We can agree to disagree on this and check back in at the end of his rookie deal and compare again.
Sorry but I’m not falling for this trap for the Xth time. Some undersized 3rd stringer PG comes along who shows a little bit of promise only for him to be out the league in year 2/3.
I understand. We as knick fans have been fooled several times with these young players not reaching the fans expectations. That’s why I try to aim low.
Nalod wrote:Panos wrote:TPercy wrote:Panos wrote:TPercy wrote:Panos wrote:TPercy wrote:Still not seeing more than another Frank yet. We'll see.
You don't see more than Frank? Seriously?
You don't see a comfort on the court that Frank NEVER had?
You don't see speed that he never had? Spring? Decisiveness? Passing skill?
Right now hes in the boat of what is he contributing on offense if his shot ain;t falling? I don;t buy his passing game yet. I dont see him getting to the rim. Both are very good defenders. McBride is slightly better than Frank but I need more to consider him as part of the core. Right now the definitive core is IQ RJ and Mitch.
Ok, if you cannot see the difference, I'm sorry for you, because to me Deuce's potential is exciting.
To me, there is no comparison between the two players.
Even that they both play good defense is not comparable, because even the way they play defense is completely different.
Frank disrupted with his length, Deuce with his speed and energy.
We can agree to disagree on this and check back in at the end of his rookie deal and compare again.
Sorry but Im not falling for this trap for the Xth time. Some undersized 3rd stringer PG comes along who shows a little bit of promise only for him to be out the league in year 2/3.
Fair enough. But for me this will be the first time aside from Lin) I've been excited about a Knicks PG since Marbury.
Good to be enthusiastic! From your lips to gods ears I hope Deuce is a HOF and the steal of the decade.
Can’t imagine anyone thinking differently. Until then we really just talking about the path to get him the best opportunity and there is no real fan knowledge other than hindsight after the fact.
Frank’s defense was quite good and we forget he could change a game with it. The residual aftermath is his tentative offensive acumen. Miles is a very different player
Let's not get carried away. I never said he was HOF material. I said he potential to be an impact player.
Panos wrote:Nalod wrote:Panos wrote:TPercy wrote:Panos wrote:TPercy wrote:Panos wrote:TPercy wrote:Still not seeing more than another Frank yet. We'll see.
You don't see more than Frank? Seriously?
You don't see a comfort on the court that Frank NEVER had?
You don't see speed that he never had? Spring? Decisiveness? Passing skill?
Right now hes in the boat of what is he contributing on offense if his shot ain;t falling? I don;t buy his passing game yet. I dont see him getting to the rim. Both are very good defenders. McBride is slightly better than Frank but I need more to consider him as part of the core. Right now the definitive core is IQ RJ and Mitch.
Ok, if you cannot see the difference, I'm sorry for you, because to me Deuce's potential is exciting.
To me, there is no comparison between the two players.
Even that they both play good defense is not comparable, because even the way they play defense is completely different.
Frank disrupted with his length, Deuce with his speed and energy.
We can agree to disagree on this and check back in at the end of his rookie deal and compare again.
Sorry but Im not falling for this trap for the Xth time. Some undersized 3rd stringer PG comes along who shows a little bit of promise only for him to be out the league in year 2/3.
Fair enough. But for me this will be the first time aside from Lin) I've been excited about a Knicks PG since Marbury.
Good to be enthusiastic! From your lips to gods ears I hope Deuce is a HOF and the steal of the decade.
Can’t imagine anyone thinking differently. Until then we really just talking about the path to get him the best opportunity and there is no real fan knowledge other than hindsight after the fact.
Frank’s defense was quite good and we forget he could change a game with it. The residual aftermath is his tentative offensive acumen. Miles is a very different player
Let's not get carried away. I never said he was HOF material. I said he potential to be an impact player.
You know who was impactful without playing many minutes? Theo! If Duece can have half the impact as Theo then he will be a draft day steal.
The words "pure point guard" or "natural floor general" is a thing of the past. With this new age of basketball, these young guys don't want to be pigeon holed into a certain label like PG or SG.
See Quicks response, after his first triple double:
"I’m a basketball player, Quickley said via NY Post. “I’ve been trying to tell everybody that. I can handle the ball, pass the ball, shoot the ball, help my teammates get shots, and help myself get shots. So that’s what I view myself as, a basketball player."
IQ is a basketball player. I called him a combo guard, and maybe thats too restrictive. IQ is ready for more starter minutes. Deuce is ready for more backup mins. Rose and Taj fits in where needed. I believe we have our PG rotation. Will anybody else, outside of IQ instantly make us a championship team? I'm not even sure if Chris Paul by himself can, but he might be the only PG that can. Too bad he's not available and will be too old when he is.
Love this part of the season. This is where the real fans step up and band wagoner's step down.
Deuce tonight
23 pts on 70%/33%/80%, 5 RB, 5 A, 3 STL
Panos wrote:Deuce tonight
23 pts on 70%/33%/80%, 5 RB, 5 A, 3 STL
Damn I missed the game. Plus I was just thinking about moving this thread up. Unleash the Deuce. Time to look at his highlights. I want to see how he scored. But this is a lockdown defender putting up buckets? And knick fans still don’t believe? Oh because thibs not playing him. Grimes would’ve been in the gleague as well and knick fans would say, thibs ain’t playing him for a reason. Thibs knows best.
Personally I’m waiting for thibs to fail so that we can get a coach aligned with this youth movement. Thibs is a veterans coach. I just hope Deuce understands his time will come and I hope he keeps improving. I almost want him to be traded just to see him play against nba talent for longer than a few games. I think his impact on defense alone was enough for me to say he needs a spot on this team. Don’t let his offense catchup to his defense.
Still tbink the definitive core is IQ RJ Mitch with Grimes and OBI to have breakout seasons to solidify themselves.
I just have to say in watching McBride, I don't think he can be a starting NBA PG. At least, I don't think he would ever be a top-15 PG in this league. He just is not a shot facilitator and he has a slow first step. But I am also convinced that he can be an above average backup PG in the mold of a Patrick Beverly. His defense is above average, and he can consistently hit an open 3 point shot. He is never going to beat out Brunson, Rose, and Quickley for PG minutes, so he likely is going to be traded within the next year and a half unless we trade Quickley.
TheGame wrote:I just have to say in watching McBride, I don't think he can be a starting NBA PG. At least, I don't think he would ever be a top-15 PG in this league. He just is not a shot facilitator and he has a slow first step. But I am also convinced that he can be an above average backup PG in the mold of a Patrick Beverly. His defense is above average, and he can consistently hit an open 3 point shot. He is never going to beat out Brunson, Rose, and Quickley for PG minutes, so he likely is going to be traded within the next year and a half unless we trade Quickley.
Remember Elfrid Payton and Burke were starting NBA PG's for us
smackeddog wrote:TheGame wrote:I just have to say in watching McBride, I don't think he can be a starting NBA PG. At least, I don't think he would ever be a top-15 PG in this league. He just is not a shot facilitator and he has a slow first step. But I am also convinced that he can be an above average backup PG in the mold of a Patrick Beverly. His defense is above average, and he can consistently hit an open 3 point shot. He is never going to beat out Brunson, Rose, and Quickley for PG minutes, so he likely is going to be traded within the next year and a half unless we trade Quickley.
Remember Elfrid Payton and Burke were starting NBA PG's for us
I understand but never is a strong word. I’m sure people attached never in front of Payton’s name all the time. But I don’t think 🤔 anybody is debating that. My guess is most people feel the same way about deuce. But 2 way players especially at the PG position is hard to come by and usually cost. Hard to find someone who can guard most nba PGs on the league. For the Knicks and fans sake (assuming he’s not traded) let’s hope his offensive game improves so he can get some burn. deuce is a scoring combo guard not a facilitating floor general. Not yet. But even in college he was a scoring PG with lockdown Defense. Not bad to have ha weapon available off the bench.
If we get Donovan my guess either him or both him and rose will be gone.
Geez, give Deuce some time to work it thru. Not saying he a scrub, but this summer league thing is a bit over the top.
I’m happy he doing well, but its not that easy to transpose that performance into the NBA.
If McBride continues his solid play in the next three preseason games, it may serve the Knicks well to preserve Rose for the long haul.
Follow this writer on Twitter: @alderalmo
Play Rose against the good and elite teams and rest him against the bad ones and any team on back to back nights and give those minutes to IQ and Deuce. They can handle it.
