foosballnick wrote:MaTT4281 wrote:NYKMentality wrote:Send him to the bench because of Evan Fournier starts over Quentin Grimes?It'll be absolutely criminal.
{Getting rid of Kemba Walker was the 1st step to regaining our #1 Defense of 2020 and sticking Evan Fournier on the bench and out of the starting 5 would become the 2nd step to featuring a top tier Defense}.
If Rose is healthy, you have to start IQ at SG.
Brunson/Rose
IQ/Fournier
RJ/Grimes
Randle/Obi
Mitch/Stein
Cam on the outside looking in.
I'm probably switching Fournier and IQ. Starting lineup would be better served with the higher 3pt shooting percentage. Grimes, Rose and Stein can carry the 2nd unit in that regard.
I thought we all agreed on iHart... I had to double take and check above lineup before I understand who Stein was 
As of now I see him as the Burks replacement.
fishmike wrote:wargames wrote:franco12 wrote:wargames wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Unless there is a chance for a deal to get us an all-star. We could use EF's 3pt shooting next season. Broke Stark's record. Helps draw the defense further out. More room for Brunson to work, among others.
Yeah but Grimes could do that and defends better. This team was a four seed based on defense, and Fournier in the starting lineup isn't cutting it. Plus with Brunson here there will be less shots overall. I am not saying dump his contract, but see if there is a better 2-way player on the market and move him.
I would say just swap him with Grimes, but he is paid too much to be coming off the bench behind a guy on his rookie contract.
Thibs is the coach and he cares about winning, probably a whole lot more than you or i.
He will start Grimes if he legit earns it. And the FO won't care if Fournier is off the bench or not playing, as long as this team is winning (and making Dolan happy!)
Where was this vibe when Thibs was playing crap vets in front of the youth before or when Thibs was forced to play Kemba and everyone knew he hated Kemba? The smart move is they move Fournier for a better 2-way wing now and make that legit playoff push they have wanted too for a while.
The bold... I mean you just said "We need to trade for better players" well duh yeah... you know you need another team to help with thatOne thing.. Grimes is NOT just as good as Fournier. He may have more upside but he's not even close. Fournier has a lot of skills on offense and is much more a complete player.
I like Thibs a lot but how Fournier is used next year will show some coaching chops. Fournier had the highest EFG% on the team behind Obi and of course Mitch. To Thibs credit he took the 3rd most shots (not enough) behind of course our two LOWEST EFG% in RJ/Randle (hopefully that changes as well)
Fournier's defense isnt good but its not in the Jose Calderon zone. He plays hard, hits guys, fights through screens... but we all know its not effective. Fournier's offense is fantastic and why he's paid.
He's got value and it may be the Knicks. We'll see.
seems so long ago!
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32443145/new-york-knicks-outlast-boston-celtics-wild-albeit-sloppy-double-opener
I mean yeah it takes another team but the Knicks are sitting on a buttload of draft picks and every team just resigned their star players for large amounts. Then you hear that the Knicks are hesitant to get robbed chasing Donovan Mitchell and I don’t see why not ship Fournier out for a 2-Way wing?
Plus as you said with Brunson here is he going to get even less shots than the combination of Brunson, RJ, and Randle? The Knicks need a 2-way wing and they might have to pay more than they like for it. However, I think this team is a playoff team and might surprise a lot of people if they can get that defense to be top tier again.
The thing about Fournier is that he has 2 guaranteed years left on his contract. Might be better to hold on to him till he becomes an expiring contract. All for having Fournier come off the bench though.
Ironically Reggie Bullock would be a better fit next to Brunson than Fournier, shame we couldn't somehow swap those two. If things weren't so toxic between us and the mass, I think we would have done maybe a Fournier and Cam Reddish for Bullock and Brunson. Bullock might help restore Randle's psych too.
Can't find it now, but I read the Lakers and Nets are talking a Kyrie for Westbrook swap with it including either Joe Harris or Seth Curry. Really wish we could turn Fournier into Harris- would be perfect as he's a better defender (if his ankle has been finally fixed).
Maybe if the Lakers do end up with Joe Harris, they still need more decent players and depth, so I might see if they'd do Fournier and Cam (who they were interested in at the deadline) for Joe Harris and whatever extra salary they need to include.
I grew to like Fournier, but fit defensively is difficult at the moment.
smackeddog wrote:Ironically Reggie Bullock would be a better fit next to Brunson than Fournier, shame we couldn't somehow swap those two. If things weren't so toxic between us and the mass, I think we would have done maybe a Fournier and Cam Reddish for Bullock and Brunson. Bullock might help restore Randle's psych too.Can't find it now, but I read the Lakers and Nets are talking a Kyrie for Westbrook swap with it including either Joe Harris or Seth Curry. Really wish we could turn Fournier into Harris- would be perfect as he's a better defender (if his ankle has been finally fixed).
Maybe if the Lakers do end up with Joe Harris, they still need more decent players and depth, so I might see if they'd do Fournier and Cam (who they were interested in at the deadline) for Joe Harris and whatever extra salary they need to include.
I grew to like Fournier, but fit defensively is difficult at the moment.
I have no intertest in Bullock. We saw what happens to him in the playoff already. In addition to his streakiness(which also showed up in the Mavs playoff run) teams just hide their worst defenders on him. We have no Luka's that can overcome that.
bring him behind the barn, get a medical exception
The Brunson deal isn’t 100% done. He can sign outright or a sign and trade with Dallas can still happen. It’s to Dallas’s advantage if they do - minimally Dallas can get a trade exception from the deal. (As reference, when Lebron chose the lakers, I believe Miami quietly squeezed out some assets as a sign and trade.)
Dallas/Knicks can potentially add more to the pot too.
Imagine a world where the Knicks traded Fournier, McBridge, and Keels and got back a package of Brunson, Bullock, and Ntilikina. Hypothetically possible. Lots of things are possible because the Knicks are under the cap.
McBride and Keels are deeeeeep on the bench now if you see RJ and Brunson both being 35mpg type players and Quickley getting 25-30mpg. Plus Fournier, Grimes, and Rose.
technomaster wrote:The Brunson deal isn’t 100% done. He can sign outright or a sign and trade with Dallas can still happen. It’s to Dallas’s advantage if they do - minimally Dallas can get a trade exception from the deal. (As reference, when Lebron chose the lakers, I believe Miami quietly squeezed out some assets as a sign and trade.)
Dallas/Knicks can potentially add more to the pot too.
Imagine a world where the Knicks traded Fournier, McBridge, and Keels and got back a package of Brunson, Bullock, and Ntilikina. Hypothetically possible. Lots of things are possible because the Knicks are under the cap.
McBride and Keels are deeeeeep on the bench now if you see RJ and Brunson both being 35mpg type players and Quickley getting 25-30mpg. Plus Fournier, Grimes, and Rose.
I think there is some little known biblical reference known as The Apocalypse that would occur where an immediate 137 page thread on Why Frank Will Bring Us To Promised Land with 7 MPG of Elite Defense gets full throttle debate just as the world implodes that makes this whole thing an impossibility
technomaster wrote:The Brunson deal isn’t 100% done. He can sign outright or a sign and trade with Dallas can still happen. It’s to Dallas’s advantage if they do - minimally Dallas can get a trade exception from the deal. (As reference, when Lebron chose the lakers, I believe Miami quietly squeezed out some assets as a sign and trade.)
Dallas/Knicks can potentially add more to the pot too.
Imagine a world where the Knicks traded Fournier, McBridge, and Keels and got back a package of Brunson, Bullock, and Ntilikina. Hypothetically possible. Lots of things are possible because the Knicks are under the cap.
McBride and Keels are deeeeeep on the bench now if you see RJ and Brunson both being 35mpg type players and Quickley getting 25-30mpg. Plus Fournier, Grimes, and Rose.
Minus Mcbride, Keels & Frank. The deal makes sense actually. Knicks don't really need to do Dallas any favors with a S&T. But swapping Fournier for Bullock makes a ton of sense for the Knicks right now financially and fit wise. Dallas would net Fournier and around a 16mil TPE?
Am I taking crazy pills or something here? People want to trade 2 young players and one of the best shooters in the league just to bring back streaky Bullock who is easily schemed into a liability in the playoffs and Frank who is a terrible fit for our team that is already severely lacking shooting? We would see zone defenses until the end of time.
Clean wrote:Am I taking crazy pills or something here? People want to trade 2 young players and one of the best shooters in the league just to bring back streaky Bullock who is easily schemed into a liability in the playoffs and Frank who is a terrible fit for our team that is already severely lacking shooting? We would see zone defenses until the end of time.
I wouldn’t move McBride, but the issue with Fournier isn’t his shooting or character (I like him), but fit, defense and chemistry
smackeddog wrote:Clean wrote:Am I taking crazy pills or something here? People want to trade 2 young players and one of the best shooters in the league just to bring back streaky Bullock who is easily schemed into a liability in the playoffs and Frank who is a terrible fit for our team that is already severely lacking shooting? We would see zone defenses until the end of time.
I wouldn’t move McBride, but the issue with Fournier isn’t his shooting or character (I like him), but fit, defense and chemistry
Yep. I’d give him three more games to turn it around, then start shopping him hard.
JK. Five more games.
Or if we’re down by 20 in the first quarter of game one, waive him.
smackeddog wrote:Clean wrote:Am I taking crazy pills or something here? People want to trade 2 young players and one of the best shooters in the league just to bring back streaky Bullock who is easily schemed into a liability in the playoffs and Frank who is a terrible fit for our team that is already severely lacking shooting? We would see zone defenses until the end of time.
I wouldn’t move McBride, but the issue with Fournier isn’t his shooting or character (I like him), but fit, defense and chemistry
Correct me if I am wrong but I remember hearing a stat that we had like top 6 defense in the league once Kemba experiment was over for good. EF played in those games. What I am going to say is not attributed to you but to fans in general. I think EF gets an ton of irrational amount of hate. I can understand the hate Randle gets because of his actions. EF does not deserve half the hate he gets from this fanbase.
For me, if you have Grimes, Cam, RJ, IQ on roster, moving Fournier has less to do with what he is doing and more to do with getting those young guy his minutes.
Clean wrote:smackeddog wrote:Clean wrote:Am I taking crazy pills or something here? People want to trade 2 young players and one of the best shooters in the league just to bring back streaky Bullock who is easily schemed into a liability in the playoffs and Frank who is a terrible fit for our team that is already severely lacking shooting? We would see zone defenses until the end of time.
I wouldn’t move McBride, but the issue with Fournier isn’t his shooting or character (I like him), but fit, defense and chemistry
Correct me if I am wrong but I remember hearing a stat that we had like top 6 defense in the league once Kemba experiment was over for good. EF played in those games. What I am going to say is not attributed to you but to fans in general. I think EF gets an ton of irrational amount of hate. I can understand the hate Randle gets because of his actions. EF does not deserve half the hate he gets from this fanbase.
It depends on the stat. If you are looking for pts allowed the Knicks went from 1st to 6th last year. If you go for defensive rating Knicks fell to 11 or 24 depending on how you do the ranking. They had been around 3 the year prior.
Knicks regardless took a defensive hit.
wargames wrote:Clean wrote:smackeddog wrote:Clean wrote:Am I taking crazy pills or something here? People want to trade 2 young players and one of the best shooters in the league just to bring back streaky Bullock who is easily schemed into a liability in the playoffs and Frank who is a terrible fit for our team that is already severely lacking shooting? We would see zone defenses until the end of time.
I wouldn’t move McBride, but the issue with Fournier isn’t his shooting or character (I like him), but fit, defense and chemistry
Correct me if I am wrong but I remember hearing a stat that we had like top 6 defense in the league once Kemba experiment was over for good. EF played in those games. What I am going to say is not attributed to you but to fans in general. I think EF gets an ton of irrational amount of hate. I can understand the hate Randle gets because of his actions. EF does not deserve half the hate he gets from this fanbase.
It depends on the stat. If you are looking for pts allowed the Knicks went from 1st to 6th last year. If you go for defensive rating Knicks fell to 11 or 24 depending on how you do the ranking. They had been around 3 the year prior.
Thanks for the stats but more specifically I am talking about the period from when Kemba was sent home to the end of the season.
Ignore the other stuff in this tweet but we were top 5 defense without Kemba. I remember someone else saying top 6 but the numbers are so close it is basically the same. EF is not as bad on D as people think he is. I can understand not wanting him to play with Brunson but people talk like EF is as bad as Kemba.
Clean wrote:smackeddog wrote:Clean wrote:Am I taking crazy pills or something here? People want to trade 2 young players and one of the best shooters in the league just to bring back streaky Bullock who is easily schemed into a liability in the playoffs and Frank who is a terrible fit for our team that is already severely lacking shooting? We would see zone defenses until the end of time.
I wouldn’t move McBride, but the issue with Fournier isn’t his shooting or character (I like him), but fit, defense and chemistry
Correct me if I am wrong but I remember hearing a stat that we had like top 6 defense in the league once Kemba experiment was over for good. EF played in those games. What I am going to say is not attributed to you but to fans in general. I think EF gets an ton of irrational amount of hate. I can understand the hate Randle gets because of his actions. EF does not deserve half the hate he gets from this fanbase.
Fournier will be better next season. He looked a little tight last season because he had just signed the contract and was on a new team plus we have point guard
Clean wrote:Am I taking crazy pills or something here? People want to trade 2 young players and one of the best shooters in the league just to bring back streaky Bullock who is easily schemed into a liability in the playoffs and Frank who is a terrible fit for our team that is already severely lacking shooting? We would see zone defenses until the end of time.
EF bias can do strange things to aman…….
DAllas dont want to lose Brunson for nothing so they may do a sign and trade which would involve Fournier from the Knicks and a 3rd team involve.. Knicks will remove themselves from fournier's contract and will have more cap space to sign someone else.
